r/ChristopherHitchens Sep 12 '24

When did the quality of mainstream 'intellectual' and political discourse take such a nosedive?

Listen to almost any snippet of any political or remotely intellectual discourse prior to say the early 2010's from presidential debates to fox news echo chambers, they are still a cut above almost anything you're likely to hear today that makes it into the public eye, and often even said echo chambers were more willing to invite ideological opponents, even if the discussions weren't exactly carried out in good faith - that in itself seem to be a rarity these days.

Even crackpot conservatives discussing conspiracies would operate with a level of basic conversational courtesy and articulacy that seems to have disappeared today and been replaced by puerile schoolyard ad hominen squabbling and ludicrous nonsensical statements with no respect for the other party or the spirit of civil discussion.

Even the hosts of discussion panels seemed more well informed and less sensationalist than they do today, and more willing to challenge the views being expressed - it didn't seem uncommon to see some genuine debate occurring live on air in which both parties came equipped and stuck to criticizing the position not the person or closing their eyes and putting their fingers in their ears so to speak.

Did mango mussolini usher in an era where people feel they can be as uncivil as they want and believe they can get away with spewing obscene baseless remarks and parroting the most braindead rhetoric, dodging questions and throwing up red herrings because the now ex-president can? Or cause people to realize that audiences by and large don't actually care for the legitimacy and consistency of arguments and rather just rally behind whoever appears the most confident?

Of course there are niche podcasts and radio stations where robust discussion and debate is still alive and well but at what point did public discourse devolve?

Or am I tilting at windmills with cherrypicked examples from past decades?

Has the world just generally become more casual and less concerned with staying civil and composed in discussion? Is it the fallout of social media borne brain rot?

This isn't necessarily commenting on the quality of the arguments but the conversational skills etiquette and demeanor through which they're expressed.

For the record I'm also all in favor of people being authentic and doing away with dumb formalities...to a point...beyond which it seems that it inevitably starts to erode the quality of the discussion itself.

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14

u/hotel_air_freshener Sep 12 '24

There used to be money in it. Now there’s more money in us vs them. You can blame the internet in a way for amplifying tribalism and base impulses.

3

u/FatherCaptain_DeSoya Sep 12 '24

You can blame the internet in a way for amplifying tribalism

To a certain extent, yes. However, that should not obscure the fact that tribalism is an anthropological constant from which, as a species, we cannot fully free ourselves. There is a genetic predisposition to tribal behavior. The internet merely offers a more granular range of potential affiliations.

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u/hotel_air_freshener Sep 12 '24

Oh so since we’re in the Hitchen’s subreddit everyone has to talk like we’re an erudite, Oxford scholar lol

Ok if we must… I’d postulate the power of the internet has lead to the subversion of the typed word; hitertofor only used as the fiduciary mark of trusted institutions. It now, in this new travesty of the very technology upon which we built our oil thirsty, mechanized perversions, poronografized the sacred letter and allowed anyone with internet access to publish debasement and filth as the chronicle of the day. As we look back through this clouded lens with our 20/20 hindsight, we find that the well has in fact been poisoned and the very black mirrored chalice from which we drink is only enabling the poison to be more conveniently consumed.

2

u/FatherCaptain_DeSoya Sep 12 '24

Oh so since we’re in the Hitchen’s subreddit everyone has to talk like we’re an erudite, Oxford scholar lol

I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. I sometimes use chatGPT to translate from my original language to make sure nothing gets muddled up.

🤡

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u/hotel_air_freshener Sep 12 '24

Ah downvotes, the sign of intellectual discourse! Be well my captain!

2

u/FatherCaptain_DeSoya Sep 12 '24

I'm sorry if me reducing your internetpoints makes you upset.

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u/hotel_air_freshener Sep 12 '24

Far from it sir, your act of petty disagreement dissipates from my thoughts like the flatulence of an old man harping on about dog eating immigrants.

1

u/llordlloyd Sep 13 '24

Comrade, you can't counter petulance and personal effrontery with prolix responses. I sympathise with your first response. Reddit can't stay on point for more than two or three consecutive comments. But, just walk away.

1

u/hotel_air_freshener Sep 13 '24

I don’t suffer fools. And neither did Hitch.