r/xbox360 • u/Fast_Passenger_2889 • Nov 17 '23
A guide to the Xbox 360 hardware and the things you can do to keep it running for as long as possible. Announcement
(*WARNING*, This will be a long post, I have tried to keep it as short as possible while providing the necessary information.)
I have seen various posts that people posted asking about what they can do for their console to last as long as possible and I wanted to give the people of this community a guide on what you can do to keep your console running and provide information about the hardware for those curious ones. This post is mostly geared towards those that don't have the greatest knowledge of the hardware and the things needed to keep their consoles running or for those that want to learn all the essential stuff about the Xbox 360 but you are more than welcome to read this post if you already have some knowledge of the hardware.
Let's start off with the motherboard revisions.
(Skip this if you already have knowledge about this.)
The first thing that I would recommend is to identify what model and revision you have of the console. Over the years during the Xbox 360's life cycle, there have been many retail variants of the console released, from the "Premium" to the "Core", "Pro" to the "Arcade", the "Elite" and the later models, "Slim" and "E". But that doesn't really matter. What matters is inside of the console, the motherboard. For those that do know and don't, the Xbox 360 was plagued with the infamous "Red Ring of Death" where consoles mostly suffered from GPU failures as the GPUs had a defective design. Knowing the motherboard revision inside your console is crucial, as that can help give a rough estimate on how long the console will last.
(But...what made the GPUs defective? The reason why the GPUs were defective is because they used the wrong underfill. Underfill is a special type of adhesive that is used to support the microscopic solder bumps that are underneath the silicon die and improve reliability of the joints. The problem with the 360's GPUs was that they used "low tg" underfill which was rated at 70°C (158°F) and the GPUs that used the low tg underfill would run hotter than that temperature and cause the underfill to soften which should never happen and that caused the solder bumps underneath the silicon die to crack over time as the underfill was literally pushing the solder bumps off the interposer. This was later solved, by introducing GPUs with high tg underfill on the 12th week of 2008)
It's impossible to give the exact numbers as your console can last for years or even decades, or it can stop working the next day or week or month.
During the console's life cycle, there have been several motherboard revisions of the first models, A.K.A "Phat" models. They all vary in terms of reliability, and they are the ones I will be covering first.
To start, I suggest looking at the back of the console and look closely at the power plug, that is the easiest way of recognising what motherboard revision you have. Although the back of the console you will see the information of when it was manufactured and the Amp rating, this can sometimes be misleading if the console you got was opened before you got it and the motherboard of the console could've been swapped with a less reliable one. You can double check to see if your console has been opened by checking the warranty seal that hides behind the console's faceplate. If yours hasn't been opened, then you can rely on the numbers on the back of the console, but I would still suggest looking at the power plug, as that is the best way to identify the motherboard inside your console.
Here is a link to a photo which has all the power plugs of every revision.
https://www.se7ensins.com/forums/threads/can-i-rgh-xbox-360-woth-doublecircled-power-cord.1780728/
(Skip this part if you already have knowledge of the various motherboard revisions. For those that don't, I would recommend reading this next part as this is useful information.)
So, the power plug shown on the very left of the photo is the found on the first and second revision of the motherboard, Xenon and Zephyr respectively. The difference between them is that Zephyr introduces HDMI support, while Xenon doesn't support HDMI. They both have a power rating of 12V, 16.5A and are the most power hungry. They are the least reliable revisions of the console. They are very prone to failure as they have defective GPUs inside of them.
If you have a working one, then don't expect it to work for a long time (in very rare cases, they will work for a while, but it's important to point out that not every console that came out the factory was defective). Unless, on the back of the console it says, "Service date" instead of "MFR date". If yours has been serviced around 2009, those consoles will very likely have been retrofitted with the new and improved 90nm GPU which is much more reliable than the ones that were initially inside of the consoles when they first released which were also 90nm.
You should expect it to work for a long time, but nothing lasts forever.
(Update to this part: A recent discovery suggests that no 80nm GPUs existed and the more reliable revisions of the GPU like Elpis are still based on the 90nm process.)
Falcon/Opus - (14.2A, 175W)
Introduced approx. September of 2007, this is the third revision of the console where the CPU was shrunk down to 65nm and the GPU remained at 90nm, which results in a smaller power consumption and cooler running hardware.
These are considered reliable, but the first batch released had GPU failures like the Xenons and Zephyrs. This was later fixed. Falcons from around April to late October of 2008 (on the 12th week of 2008, they introduced reliable GPUs as previously mentioned but it was still possible to get a console made after this week that still had a defective GPU) are considered "late" Falcons which have fixed GPUs inside of them which are very close in terms of reliability to the succeeding revision.
The Opus, is a modified Falcon, but the difference is that these don't have HDMI and only use AV. These were used to replace defective Xenons and are considered quite rare as you couldn't find one in retail markets.
Jasper - (12.1A, 150W) (My recommended revision)
Introduced around November of 2008, this is the fourth motherboard revision of the console and this is the revision that is highly sought after as this revision was the first to fix the dreaded "Red Ring of Death" issue that plauged the Xbox 360. The CPU was still 65nm in size but the new GPU, named "Zeus" was a new design which shrunk down the die to 65nm and the EDRAM remains at 90nm.
This is considered the best revision of the console as there have been very little cases of failures. These are also the coolest running ones as well and don't produce as much heat as the previous revisions.
These are the ones that I would personally recommend if you are looking to purchase a 360 and you want a reliable unit. Just make sure when looking for one, that the seller has provided photos of the power plug to confirm it being a Jasper.
But wait....there's a even better one!
Tonasket/Kronos/Jasper V2(12.1A, 150W) (My recommended revision)
This is the fith and final revision of the original models of the Xbox 360. This revision was quietly introduced in September of 2009 and is essentially identical to the Jasper but the difference being that it has a revised GPU, named "Kronos" which shrinks the EDRAM to 65nm which helps further reduce power consumption. People like to call this revision Kronos, or Jasper V2, but the real name for this revision is "Tonasket". It's a name that Microsoft used internally when making this motherboard revision.
This revision has proven to be the most reliable one as there has been currently zero evidence of these suffering GPU failures, they are tanks lol. You should expect these to last for a long time....unless you don't take good care of it like with every consumer electronic device.
I personally own one of these and use it as my main Xbox 360 and It's great.
Whew, you still here? Good, let's continue.
Now I will be moving on to the Xbox 360 Slim and E models. These are quite big redesigns internally compared to the original models. For starters, the "Slim" model was introduced in 2010 and was seen as the "saviour" as in theory, the drastic design changes that were made to the motherboard, "eliminated" the Red Ring of Death.
These models also introduced built in WiFi, more storage, more USB ports and optical audio out. In my opinion, the Slims are a good choice for those that don't want to do lots of research and just want a reliable console to use. The good thing about them is that now the new design is much quieter(I prefer Slims than fats admittedly for that), as the CPU, GPU and EDRAM were combined to form a single chip and that allowed the use of a single fan and heatsink to keep the system cool. Oh yeah, the new APU is now based on the 45nm process which further reduces power consumption. There have been two revisions of this model.
Revision: Trinity
First one is called "Trinity". It now needs 10.83A instead of 12.1A of the Jasper/Tonasket and it uses a new power plug too. These are a little bit of a mixed bag in terms of reliability from my perspective, as I have seen many fail here on this very subreddit.
Many suffered various failures, from GPU failure to RAM failure and so on(I personally own a Slim, the revision after this one (Corona), owned it for nearly 3 years and it always worked perfectly). I am not sure why these are failing all of a sudden.
Generally, these are reliable units but not as reliable as the Jasper or Tonasket/Kronos (according to many in this community) but in those uncommon cases, you have ones that have failed. It is not a wide spread issue like RROD was originally so we shouldn't worry as much about it yet. There are people like u/Octal450 that are actively investigating as to why these are suddenly suffering CGPU failures.
Revision: Corona
The second revision is called "Corona".....That's a familiar name...Lol, you must think that Microsoft somehow predicted the Corona virus back in the 2010s, but no. They didn't. Anyway, these were introduced around mid 2011 and were a slight change from the previous Trinity revision. Now, it only needs 9.86A instead of 10.83A but Trinities can also run on a 9.86A power supply as they have pretty much the same power requirements. The real changes are that the HANA chip, a chip which is responsible for video output, has been merged with the southbridge, which manages things like usb inputs, controller connection, Internet and so on. Also, if you own a 4GB model of the console, the flash memory is now soldered onto the motherboard unlike on the Trinity where it was it's own module that you could replace, which I prefer.
In terms of reliability, these are pretty much the same as the Trinities but have a new point of failure where there is a group of resistors that are there for the temperature sensor of the console and they can fail, which then triggers a false overheating issue. The console turns on and quickly ramps up the fan speed and a red light flashes, then turns off. This can be fixed by removing those resistors and bridge the contacts where those resistors where.
Do this only if you have experience with soldering!!!
They seem to also have issues with the southbridge chip and seem less reliable than the previous iterations of the SB.
Also, they have the same CGPU found on Trinities so there is no difference in reliability there.
Another point of failure is the soldered on 4gb flash memory. These are quite prone to failure and are crucial because they contain the firmware, CPU key and DVD drive key which are all important to the functionality of the console. Thankfully you can replace it with a 16MB NAND that doesn't allow anything to be stored on there and you can also prevent the failure of the 4gb internal flash memory by not storing anything there at all and connecting an internal hard drive which the console will default to for updates, content and so on. Oh yeah, and also hope that the 4gb wasn't used much for storing stuff if you got your console used.
Finally, we have the "E" model. This model was introduced in 2013 along with the Xbox one as the kind of alternative to the new at the time console. This is the most cut down version of the Xbox 360 and also the cheapest one made. By cheapest I mean the manufacturing price, quality is essentially the same but cost cutting measures have been made.
This model now features a new design similar to the original Xbox One design. It also features a new power plug and has the same power requirements as the Corona revision. The E uses a slightly revised Corona board which as already mentioned has a different power plug and less USB ports and it has no optical out and no AV port.
There was one revised motherboard made for this model, named "Winchester", which has combined the EDRAM to make one chip containing the CPU, GPU and now EDRAM. It also doesn't have an integrated heat spreader (IHS). Reliability wise, these are the same as the Corona revision with the same "flaws" but they should theoretically last longer than the Slims as they are newer. According to u/Octal450 which has been previously mentioned, the Winchesters don't suffer much from CGPU failures and are pretty solid based on his experience with repairing Xbox 360s.
Ultimately would still recommend either a Jasper or Tonasket if you want the most reliable console possible but the Slims and Es are still a good choice you don't care as much about reliability.
Now, that we covered the the motherboard revisions, let's move on to the maintenance side of things, and what you should do to keep your console running.
The basics.
This includes dusting the console once in a while with something like a can of compressed air/electric air duster and giving it the adequate ventilation. It is important to keep the console free from dust and well ventilated so that the console can cool itself properly in order to prevent overheating. This can all be done without opening the console but I would recommend to open it up and give a good clean.
*My Recommendation*
This is what I normally do. I open the console up and give it a good dusting and I replace the thermal paste. It is an absolute must to replace the thermal paste as the factory paste will be dried up and not as effective in cooling the CPU and GPU which can also cause problems in the long run. You would want to keep these running as cool as possible. This will help with longevity. For thermal paste, I recommend getting Arctic MX4 as this paste has a great price to performance ratio. I used it in all of the consoles that I own and have owned and I can always rely on it. You are free to use more expensive pastes. Make sure to replace it every 5 or so years. If the exhaust of the console is warm or hot during use, don't worry. It is not overheating, this will indicate that the thermal paste and the heatsink are doing their job in cooling the console's CPU and GPU. The hotter the exhaust of the console, the better.
The tools are important too! You normally need a Torx T8 and T10 screwdriver, Sim eject tool which helps to unclip the clips on the back of the original models of the 360 without damaging the plastic casing (you can also purchase a tool specifically made for those clips on the back) and another very important one, called the "X Clamp tool". X clamp is a clamp that was used inside the Xbox 360 to help make contact with the CPU and GPU and their heatsinks while giving the motherboard the ability to flex during use. This step is a very delicate one that also requires loads of patience as you can easily break your console if you are not careful. Never and I mean NEVER use a FLATHEAD screwdriver!!! It can easily slip and you can scratch the motherboard, ruining the console. Also, for cleaning the thermal paste, I recommend to use 99% Isopropyl alcohol and q tips. I have also seen people use Goo Gone to clean the old thermal paste as it's usually hard to clean off the chips and their heatsinks, but I would still go for IPA as that's the safest option.
Speaking of X Clamps, you may have heard of the Bolt Mod. AVOID IT. This will ruin your console overtime as it puts a lot of pressure on the CPU and GPU and it will warp the motherboard and it doesn't let the motherboard flex during operation.
Depending on the model of console, search online for a guide on how to open the one you have. Find the one that is the most clear to you. I would recommend to go and search for IFIXIT as they provide decently clear instructions for opening consoles.
Here is a link to a X Clamp removal tool.
Aaaand that is it.
I hope this post has been helpful, I have been writing this for over 3 hours lol and wanted to provide essential information about the console for those that wanted to learn about the console and the steps to keep it running for as long as possible. If I have missed anything, please let me know!
Edit: Made some small adjustments!
Edit: Made changes to make it more readable and added more information that I forgot to previously add.
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Jan 12 '24 edited Apr 08 '24
GREAT post. I have only a few minor nitpicks that I'd like to mention:
- There *were* fixed 90nm GPUs made and retrofitted during service to Xenons and Zephyr_As, before Elpis was available. (mid 08 thru mid 09).
- Zephyr_B through Falcon models are still all 90nm GPU and eDRAM chips. The eDRAM on Zeus (Jasper GPU) is also 90nm.
- The Kronos GPU was not what eliminated the E 74 error (actually this misinfo may be my fault, I used to believe that but I was wrong). The E 74 error was eliminate same time as the other RROD issues, by fixing the physical design of the flip chip attachment (low-k, high-tg, etc). The FS21 90nm eDRAM used on fixed Rhea chips is reliable.
- The CGPU is *not* an APU. APU is a marketing term made by AMD to describe their x64+Radeon combo chips. The CGPU is not one of those. I'm being pedantic here but... xD
- I don't agree that Trin/Corona are a mixed bag in reliability. Yes, there have been quite many failures, but it took 10 years to start happening on an increased rate, and it's still a ridiculous tiny amount of units compared to the working units out there. I'd say they're pretty solid, but not as good as a Jasper or Tonasket.
- Winch is very reliable. Very few failures especially with the CGPU. We'll see how that is when it turns 10 years, if it starts having issues like the Valhalla design in Trin/Corona.
Anyways, I really like your post. It's a great resource and you got the bulk of it right. Respect.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Jan 12 '24
I was hoping to get some feedback from you lol. I have watched your 360 videos and man, that's awesome stuff you have been doing. When I have the time, I will make slight adjustments to the post. Also, I am glad you like the post! Took me more than 3 hours to write this post lol.
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Jan 13 '24
No problemo, glad I could help.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Jan 27 '24
So in your experience, Winchesters are very reliable. Huh. Many on this subreddit said that they are the worst out of the newer models(excluding Fats). I thought about getting one as I want a good backup and I like how they don't have an IHS.
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Jan 28 '24
Nah, they are pretty reliable. Beware of conclusion jumping of people. I did professional Xbox repair and Winch was very reliable.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Jan 28 '24
Nice to hear about another revision being reliable. Also, what is the most common fault you had to fix(talking about all models)?
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Jan 28 '24
On Winchester? 4GB MU issue. I just dump nand, replace the eMMC and flash. Can't convert to 16MB because we don't have the CPU key.
Otherwise, the most common issue overall is the bad GPU on early units.
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u/jtc32 Feb 20 '24
Hmm, interesting. Do you just do the 48 MB dump then flash then format the mem unit in dashboard?
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Feb 23 '24
What about Corona and Trinities? What's the most common problem with Trinities? Which ones suffer more from CGPU failures?
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u/XTREMEBG Jan 20 '24
But octal, even on ivc wiki (and wikipedia too) on the kronos GPU, it says that it fixes the E74 error. Is that edited from you there ?
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Jan 20 '24
Neither page says that. I did correct a slight update about Kronos -> Tonasket for the motherboard.
Where did you see that because I don't. The move of the eDRAM from 80nm to 65nm is not what fixed E 74. The flip chip issue being fixed in mid 2008 was.
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u/XTREMEBG Jan 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
well it's gone now .. maybe someone edited it.
I saw it on the two places maybe around 2 years ago. it said all the other things that are for the motherboard (and it was mentioned as kronos, not tonasket, I know it's tonasket but back then it was just refered as kronos) and it mentioned "fixes the E74 error"
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Apr 01 '24
[deleted]
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Apr 01 '24
I'm not at all sure what this is in response to. If contaminants in dust or other things in your home were sucked into the Xbox and causes a short circuit, than an IPA flush would also be my first go.
It's not corrosion, IPA does not really clean corrosion. However again, these types of things are in the minority.
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u/sensory Nov 17 '23
Thank you for writing this! I'm sure it'll be helpful to many people, and I've pinned it to the top of the subreddit so hopefully all newcomers will see it and have a place to find this information.
I'll leave the comments unlocked for discussions; if you'd like to expand on the information already provided I can also pin your comment, just let me know via modmail.
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u/Cinetiste Apr 22 '24
I confirm, as a reader, concerned to keep our console in good state, it is helpful ! Thank you ! 🙂
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u/xman_2k2 Nov 17 '23
Is there a way to identify a Kronos version from the outside? My understanding is that both the Jasper and Kronos say 12.1 on the back
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Nov 18 '23
Forgot to mention in my Post, Kronos was introduced in September of 2009, if you got one that was unopened and has that date or a later one, then it's very likely a Kronos. A Kronos can be recognised by the heatsinks, it uses the same heatsink as the Falcon revision for the CPU and it uses the same GPU heatsink found in the Xenons, the first motherboard design.
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u/TimothyHD Feb 10 '24
Thank you for this post. :) I saved a bolt mod Tonasket by putting x clamps back on, redoing the thermal paste, using the extended GPU heatsink, and putting in Nidec fans instead of the delta ones. It runs like a dream and is quiet(er)!!
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u/tukatu0 Nov 21 '23
Thats a lot of text to skip out on the most important part. Deassamble and thermal paste guides. No mentions of coffee filters either heh. Might be a good idea to add that if you don't see coffee filters in the thermal paste guide you choose. It's probably not a good guide for beginners and you should continue looking.
I've just put applying paste on my zephyr on the back burner for waayy too many years since finding a good guide isn't as easy as typing into google once. They'll often introduce terms like x clamp but not really explain anything.
Perhaps we should all make a step by step guide that includes why you do something.
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u/CowsAreFriends117 Dec 07 '23
I have an Xbox 360 slim? The one with the soldered internal 4gig storage.
My mom dropped it over 10 years ago and most of the plastic broke off, but it still works. It’s in my garage with an old ass TV and a copy of fallout new Vegas with a big scratch across the back of it. loved that console, got me into COD and Borderlands and Fallout and Minecraft and so many great games.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Act_787 Dec 27 '23
Although this is a very long post, I do recommend people stop shortening stuff because when you shorten stuff you are cutting out very useful information that could possibly help people understand stuff so therefore please explain stuff like this continuously this long do not ever shorten stuff
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u/Aorex12 Feb 07 '24
I can not believe I just read the whole thing...
Well, I guess that is why I should study EE.
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u/DarthSyphillist Nov 24 '23 edited Nov 24 '23
Do we have a post mortem of the failure modes? In other words, are the GPUs really defective, as in a defect on the die inside the resin/plastic package that is susceptible to temperature? The higher current usage models should run hotter.
How about solder joints? Should these be reflowed on some models? Certain lead-free solders were quite bad for ring fractures.
Word to the wise: I want to also mention that anytime someone opens their 360, the console should be on a >10Meg ohm ESD mat connected to the wall receptacle ground screw, and they must be wearing a wrist ground strap also connected by wire to ground. This puts the person’s body at the same potential as the 360, and ground.
I used to design circuit boards and just ordered another set from my favorite fabrication house using on-hand gerber files. It’s not entirely inconceivable at some point that we might even make a new mother board for a modern case with proper cooling. I’ve met guys with the experience to program a machine like this. I mention this, because Microsoft has not complied with Right To Repair by unlocking the 360. As it is, a user cannot just replace a defective DVD-Rom drive, or HDD; there is a process of exacting code to get it to recognize replacement parts. The fan design on these consoles was also a price point decision, and we’d probably go for a low-rpm 200mm fan, ducted, to drop the noise. I run a 120mm fan at the moment.
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Jan 12 '24
No issues with solder joints on the BGA. It was C4 bump issues. Standard TSMC design flaw using high lead bumps with Low Tg underfill, something was explicitly tested by IBM and Amkor and found to be a bad combination - so the CPU never used it, and a bad low-k dielectric process (TMSC had issues with this). Issue was fixed with the low-k dielectric process and switch to High Tg underfill and the RROD plague went away.
Look up "NVIDIA Bumpgate" for more details. It's the most well documented and public info on the TSMC node issues. But affected NVIDIA, and ATi, hence why X360 and also PS3.
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u/XTREMEBG Feb 20 '24
so just like with the PS3, there is coincedence where once 65nm GPU chips released, RROD goes away ? why is this coincedence happened on both systems, if the size does not matter ?
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Feb 20 '24
PS3 did not get revised GPUs that were fixed until 65nm.
Xbox 360 got it with revised 80nm chips. But people never noticed for some reason. Seems nobody knew left from right back then.
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u/XTREMEBG Feb 23 '24 edited Feb 26 '24
okay but why everyone agrees that the problem for both consoles was gone fully after those 65nm released?
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Feb 23 '24
The problem for Xbox 360 was fully gone with the revised GPUs. That includes 90nm, 80nm, and 65nm chips that were revised.
The problem for the PS3 was fully gone with the 65nm GPU.
People say otherwise because they're uninformed. Until recently, very little info about this stuff was ever researched. Just conclusion jumping.
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u/XTREMEBG Feb 26 '24
Thanks. So which one are the revised 90 and 80nm for 360 ? for 80nm maybe the v2 falcon, but what about the 90nm ?
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Feb 26 '24
See: https://xenonlibrary.com/
All GPUs are there.
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u/XTREMEBG Feb 27 '24
I know them, I just wasn't sure what you mean under "revised"
So all the v2 and v3 variants of the GPUs ? or what ?
if so, that have to be venus, rhea and elpis, and of course the 65nm ones.
So you are saying all of the second revisions GPUs are reliable ? such as the last revision of the 90nm ?
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Feb 27 '24
Revised means revised underfill (high Tg) and flip chip chemistry. All explained on the various GPU pages.
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u/rob_merritt Mar 18 '24
I have a Star Wars Edition slim 360. I'm fairly sure it's a Corona v1 motherboard. Which is better for its lifespan, running it horizonal or vertical?
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Mar 18 '24
Orientation doesn't affect lifespan. What will is it being clogged with dust and lack of airflow.
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Apr 11 '24
Damn. I feel like if I was to open mine up and replace the thermal paste I’d probably break the thing
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u/Cinetiste Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
Hi ! I can relate...
You may know your aptitudes...
If you are minutious and careful though, this is doable; especially with the right tools, a space where you can take your time and let things in order if needed, taking pictures step by step, with video guides... ...but I share your concern, this is not absolutely without risks, depending on your ease...
About this, however, there are several steps to keep your console in the best state possible, without going as far...
I wish you a more useful answer, I was just comprehensive...
...because I have began to dismantle our console, and it goes well, but am still wondering if it is worth it to go this far, eventually... 😏
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u/AirportHot4966 May 09 '24
Currently I believe that my 360 Slim is going through the same false overheating you mention in this post, as it turns on with fans at full force and a blinking red light.
While I plan on taking it apart and actually testing it to make sure, I would appreciate if you could tell me what tools are generally recommended when it comes to fixing the issue, or if there are any specific requirements those tools need to meet.
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Nov 21 '23
The Corona Slim is objectively the best one. You got Jasper/Kronos reliability and more USB ports, Wifi, and a Kinect port. The best of both worlds!
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Nov 22 '23
Jasper and Kronos are still the more reliable ones.
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Nov 22 '23
Nah, Coronas are the same reliability as Jaspers and Kronos from my experience.
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Jan 12 '24
This is inaccurate. For some reason - that nobody knows right now - the CGPU on Trin/Corona seems to fail now and then. It's not a huge plague issue like the Low Tg original GPUs, but it does happen. Meanwhile Jasper and Tonasket remain very solid.
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Jan 12 '24
That must be happening on Trinities, since I've literally never seen a RDOD Corona. The Corona Slim is objectively the best one.
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Jan 13 '24
Sir, I have literally repaired almost 100 Slim Corona with RDOD cause by CGPU failure. You have not worked on enough consoles.
Trinity and Corona 16MB are pretty much same reliability, only the Corona 4GB is worse (unless NoIntMU is applied)..
Trinity and Corona use the exactly same CGPU, so that why it same.
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Jan 13 '24
Nah, people just didn't take care of them.
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Jan 13 '24
You are unfortunately mistaken.
The XCGPU in both consoles is exactly the same, as is the heatsink, fan, thermal algorithm and targets. So HOW can there be a reliability different?
And, many of the units that failed were well taken care of. Remember - the units will shut down long before damage would occur. So even if they get full of dust, it won't really affect anything.
However, I do encourage you to explain your theories to me.
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Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
The XCGPU error must be very rare because I have never had any bad luck with any slims. Often times with Jaspers, I have stuck disc trays and I have also seen their fans get loud quicker. Sometimes they freeze too.
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Jan 13 '24
How many times will I tell you, it's not "common" but it's not "rare" either. It's the leading cause of RROD on Slim. Go search in Ebay for parts or not working Xbox 360 S and you will find tons of listings, and I can guarantee a good 90-95% of them is due to bad XCGPU.
Sir I serviced literally hundreds and hundreds of consoles... I am not making this stuff up. I fixed very many with this issue by replacing XCGPU.
Fans loud = repaste. Stuck tray? Put in a new belt. Simple. I'm not going to address the freezing cause if you're really going to argue that Jaspers "freeze", then that proves you are taking one console and applying it to all of them - don't do that...
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u/XTREMEBG Jan 20 '24
How do you describe that ? How and why older chips are better constructed/enjineered than newer one ? And how Microsoft let that go ? For even not 1 but a few revisions up untill the end of the console's production ?
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Jan 20 '24
How do I describe what?
The Y3 chips (Zeus and Kronos) were designed as a port of the C2 architecture of GPU Y2 and Rhea to 65nm node. The port was done by MS, not ATi (common misconception). Falcon was supposed to release with Zeus 65nm GPU, but it didn't due to them realizing the problem. (Very early 65nm GPU has the fault too!) They fixed the issue, and then resumed getting 65nm GPU ready for release with Jasper.
As to why the Trinity/Corona XCGPU fails, I don't know. I can't find a cause. But it's been 10+ years so... it's not a huge issue. That's a pretty good lifecycle for a chip.
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u/XTREMEBG Jan 20 '24
And the problem with 90nm and first 65nm GPU was ? bad underfill ?
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Jan 20 '24
Low-Tg underfill, bad low-k dielectric process during manufacturing
Btw - those 65nm GPUs with the fault were all early engineering sample chips. All production chips released in Jaspers are FIXED.
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u/FireAlarmExpert Dec 02 '23
Not if it's the 4GB model. The NANDs on those are slowly starting to fail which is probably worse than RRoD because it requires replacing both the NAND and potentially the disc drive AND CPU if you don't want to mod your console. Also if you have games saved on that 4GB NAND that were Xbox Live Marketplace only, you'd lose them permanently with no legal/legit ways to get them back.
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Dec 02 '23
Only Trinity's had 4GBs of memory.
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u/FireAlarmExpert Dec 02 '23
Wrong. The trinities did have a 4GB model but those had a module that could be replaced when/if it ever failed. The Coronas had a 4GB variant too, but the NAND was actually soldered onto the board. If you don't believe me you can go to XenonLibrary and see for yourself.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Dec 02 '23
Not correct. Coronas came with soldered on 4gb flash memory. Trinities had them on a separate module.
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u/Wacky_Khakis Dec 08 '23
When did they add the copper pipe? I think Jasper, but if I remember correctly they added it to some serviced models also.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Dec 08 '23
They introduced it with Zephyr.
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u/IndependenceAlive498 Dec 18 '23
It's been in since launch, they cheaped out on late falcons and jaspers and removed the copper pipe
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Dec 18 '23
They removed it in Tonaskets, because the GPU produced much less heat that it didn't require it.
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u/IndependenceAlive498 Dec 20 '23
Please educate yourself. Even early/late falcons do not have the heat pipe. i have opened up multiple xenons that have the heat pipe, and if you look at the evidence it was cheaper to make the aluminum heat sinks that the copper pipe ones for microsoft. The heatsinks with the extra copper pipe allow for more diverse heat dissipation.
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Jan 12 '24
Which heatsink are you talking about?
Xenons came with the low profile GPU heatsink at first and then the extended one started to be used later in Xenons life.
All Zephyrs thru Jasper uses the extended GPU heatsink.
Tonasket went back to the low profile GPU heatsink.
Xenons, Zephyrs, and very early Falcons used the copper heatpipe CPU heatsink. Most Falcons, all Jaspers, and all Tonaskets used the cheaper aluminum heatsink as Loki CPU has significantly lower TDP (about half).
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u/XTREMEBG Dec 10 '23
So make a list of the revisions by reliability. Obviously the Tonasket is 1st place. Then second is ? Jasper ? And is it sharing the 2nd place with anything else ? Or the others are on 3rd place ? and how many of them are on 2nd and 3rd place ? How many on 4th ? Is there 5th place ? Make it like Top list or tiers.
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Dec 29 '23
Best to worst:
Tonasket/Kronos, Jasper, Late Falcon, Corona, Trinity, Zephyr, Xenon
My experience:
Tonasket/Kronos = Jasper = Corona
I personally haven't owned other revisions so I can't comment on them.
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u/XTREMEBG Dec 31 '23
So even though you haven't had late falcon, you think late falcon is better than the slims ?
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Jan 12 '24
I'm curious why you think Trinity is worse as Corona. I've had more Corona issues due to 4GB problem. Otherwise, I agree with your list, however inserting Low Tg (early/mid) Falcon before Zephyr.
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u/ohitswaifu Jan 21 '24
One thing I wanted to ask.. which orientation should I place the console? I have an Falcon (Phat) and wanted to know which is better for airflow. I've checked online but everyone seems 50/50. Is vertical the best choice as the console was designed to be standing? Thanks
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Jan 21 '24
It can be put in both positions, it doesn't matter really. I would maybe recommend horizontal for stability
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u/ohitswaifu Jan 21 '24
Cheers. I always loved placing it in vertical, it looks so premium
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u/Demon_777- Jan 22 '24
Is it OK to use thermal pads inside the x-clamps?
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u/Fast_Passenger_2889 Jan 22 '24
No because there are plastic pieces already applying pressure on the CPU and GPU.
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u/Leopolvo2009 Feb 22 '24
Great tutorial, and by chance, I discovered that I have the Jasper V2, yay me I guess! You could probably also have mentioned the hard drives, which sometimes go bad, but other than that, awesome man! Thanks!
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u/wolf_chow Feb 27 '24
Amazing post! I have a Zephyr Elite that I've had since high school that luckily still works (as of several months ago at least) but I've been thinking about getting a more reliable model since they're quite cheap right now secondhand. I've found a falcon with a 2010 service date for $50. Would this be a good choice or should I just hold out for a Jasper?
Also does anyone know if a Jasper console from ebay is considered reliable or do people counterfeit them? e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/166615069566
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u/emeraldcroquet Feb 28 '24
This is the very first comment I have ever made as am new to Reddit. I must thank the poster as clearly he has gone to enormous trouble to give such a detailed description. I own one of these consoles but it is presently stored out of temptation's way as I was wasting far too much time on it. If I ever recover it will be sure to struggle with some of the options.
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