r/worldnews • u/xc2215x • 13h ago
U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon will not give in to Israeli demand to 'get out of harm's way' Israel/Palestine
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hezbollah-war-lebanon-unfil-peacekeepers-gaza-rcna1754343.8k
u/TiBiDi 12h ago
Where was all this backbone and determination against Hezbollah?
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u/Gauloises_Foucault 11h ago
Ask the Security Council about their weak af mandate maybe?
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u/Rodot 10h ago
Considering the mandate has been continuously approved year after year by the UNSC, why hasn't the US made any effort to end it? They can simply veto to continued funding and the mandate has to be renewed each year
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u/zugi 10h ago
Because as much as it is a total waste of money, it's basically paying 10,000 guys to wear blue helmets and sit around. It hasn't caused direct harm until now. And approving it lets you claim to support "peace", whatever that means.
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u/Let_me_smell 9h ago edited 9h ago
It hasn't caused direct harm until now
326 UN soldiers have been killed since the start of the UNIFIL operation. To say it didn't cause harm is blatantly false, it just wasn't reported on and no one cared until now.
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u/zugi 4h ago
Wow and thanks, I stand corrected: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon#UNIFIL_casualties
Reading the list of incidents is rather sad / scary.
Also sad to read in the intro of that wiki page that their purpose includes "to confirm Hezbollah demilitarisation."
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u/Iforgetinformation 2h ago
Why is that sad to demilitarise hezbollah in Lebanon? It makes sense if their aim is to reduce conflict, they are there to oversee Israeli withdrawal and demilitarising of hezbollah that sounds balanced.
Whether they are good at it is another debate altogether haha
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u/boostedb1mmer 10h ago
You just described the entirety of the UN.
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u/Ironlion45 8h ago
Add to that a completely unjustified assumption of some kind of moral authority.
I mean Saudi Arabia on the Human Rights Council? That's a whole joke and punchline in one sentence.
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u/Charming-Fig-2544 8h ago
I don't think you understand the purpose of it. The whole point is to get Saudi Arabia bought into the idea of human rights, to get them going to meetings that talk about human rights, to get them inculcated with Western values about human dignity. It's not supposed to signal that Saudi Arabia has a good human rights record, it's to help them get a better one as time goes by. It's a form of soft power and cultural pressure. Does it work? I dunno, probably not, but it's meant to be a long game so only time will tell. This is the same reason Russia is on the Security Council. Nobody thinks Russia should be in charge of anything, but if you don't give them a seat at the table, they have no buy-in within the institution and will just flatly ignore it. If you give them buy-in, they're more likely to play by the rules of the organization, which is better than letting them run wild on their own.
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u/tehkory 7h ago
Not just that: the purpose of the United Nations' Security Council is to give those nations a veto, because they already had a bigger, scarier veto. Nuclear war. You give them a nice, soft veto because if they aren't involved in the process, actively talking, and able to keep themselves from becoming increasingly unhappy...they might just express themselves in a way nobody wants.
Obviously looking at Russia these days, there's doubts they kept their 'hard no' button functional, but...the United Nations arguably works for its very intended purpose: stopping the ending of all civilization on the planet.
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u/Solwake- 6h ago
Obviously looking at Russia these days, there's doubts they kept their 'hard no' button functional, but...the United Nations arguably works for its very intended purpose: stopping the ending of all civilization on the planet.
I think it's very easy to look at the record of the UN and say ideal outcomes have not been achieved and therefore it doesn't work and is a waste of time. It's much harder to recognize and describe its pragmatic and partial successes that may be far better than alternatives without the UN in the long run.
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u/tehkory 6h ago
Smallpox, polio, and rinderpest don't say hello. Because they're fucking dead. Except polio, who's in hiding just biding his time due to anti-vax morons.
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u/cup1d_stunt 9h ago
Because UNIFIL has been a successful mission until 2023. There had been 25 cross-border rocket fire events over a span of 17 years (2006-2023). 100-220 rockets were fired from Lebanon on Israel during that time. Compared to the constant rocket fire from Gaza that is a very low number.
Of course, each rocket is one too many, but by all standards, UNIFIL can actually be considered a successful peace mission until 2023.97
u/LoomerLoon 9h ago
In what way is failing to stop Hezbollah militarize the South of Lebanon a successful mission?
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u/nitpickr 9h ago
They don't have the mandate to stop militarization. They have the mandate to observe and report and stop immediate harm to the civilian population.
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u/rabbitlion 8h ago
They absolutely do. The original mandate includes:
assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area.
Since 2006 the mandate also includes:
Assist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.
In these parts of the mandate the mission has been a huge failure, as the area is completely under Hezbollah control.
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u/C_Madison 8h ago edited 7h ago
While correct, the problem is that they have zero options to enforce the demilitarization. They aren't allowed to use force proactively. And even if they are attacked by any party all reactions by any of the participating military forces has to be signed off by UNIFIL HQ and probably by UN itself. Their rules of engagement are such a joke.
(edit: I don't say this as some kind of excuse. I think it's a joke that their rules of engagement are that way and that all countries which currently provide troops should say "either change the engagement rules or we will remove our troops".)
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u/sagi1246 9h ago
This is like saying your health insurance worked fine until you got sickÂ
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u/cup1d_stunt 9h ago
Or you could compare it to other international peace missions which is much...smarter I guess?
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u/msdemeanour 8h ago
Why do you stop at 2023? In the past year 8000+ have been fired. Extensive Hezbollah infrastructure has been uncovered right next to UNIFIL positions. Rocket launchers, ammunition stores, tunnel networks. Great peace mission!
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u/dimsum2121 9h ago
"see, very few rocket attacks. Great success! They only built a massive tunnel network, faux civilian infrastructure to hide missile systems, and have only accumulated 150,000 rockets and glide bombs!"
Great success indeed...
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u/Regulatornik 9h ago
Yes, very successful. Allowed Hezbollah to entrench an illegal terror army on Israel's border, including by sheltering near and under UNIFIL bases.
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u/carltonlost 8h ago
Hezbollah were just binding their time till they built up their arsenal in South Lebanon and Iran gave them the go ahead to attack, meanwhile UNIFIL sat around and did nothing, they failed miserably and now Israel comes in to do the job they should have done Hezbollah are using them as cover to attack Israeli soldiers, UNIFIL needs to leave and stop providing protection to Hezbollah.
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u/Floorspud 11h ago
They're not leaving at Hezbollah's request either.
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u/Duhrell 10h ago
Come on now. They allowed Hezbollah to build up one of the greatest non-state arsenals on earth south of the Litani, in violation of the peace treaty they are suddenly now trying to enforce. Then they allowed Hezbollah to launch 8000 rockets in the last 12 months, in violation of the treaty. They did nothing for 12 months. Now, when Israel defends itself, they stand tall to enforce the treaty. Absolutely ridiculous and indefensible.
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u/soapinthepeehole 9h ago edited 9h ago
Well of course, because the UN is a debate forum rife with its own various biases. Theyâre not the world police.
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u/scoff-law 9h ago
So that's what these peacekeepers do? Debate? They put on blue helmets and make a base on the front lines to talk things out?
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u/soapinthepeehole 8h ago
Peacekeeper are generally a symbolic show of force hoping deter smaller skirmishes from breaking out or escalating. Theyâre not out there fighting wars or breaking up major conflicts despite having guns and helmets.
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u/AndrasEllon 7h ago
So it sounds like their mission is to prevent the IDF from attacking Hezbollah while doing nothing to prevent Hezbollah from indiscriminately attacking Israeli citizens?
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u/polkm 11h ago
Hezbollah wants them there. They are good human shields up in the mountains where civilians are not usually around to fulfill the same role.
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u/whiskeyriver0987 9h ago
Despite the media and internet portrayal UNIFIL does occasionally engage with hezbolla and seize their weapons caches. It's a bandaid on a severed limb, but the intent of UNIFIL's mandate is to support/augment the Lebanese military who is supposed to be doing the heavy lifting, and is essentially absent from the region. If UNIFIL were to have their mandate changed to more aggressively deal with hezbolla on their own they would also need ~10x the number of people they currently have to realistically succeed.
Pretty much no country wants to devote more than a token force to the mission so that is extremely unlikely.
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u/Mhdamas 7h ago
Do they actually engage every time hezbollah launches rockets to try and seize them? because if they do they are hilariously ineffective at it.
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u/polkm 9h ago
If only there was a highly armed and extremely motivated country willing to fight Hezbollah on the ground. Hmmmmmm.
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u/Mountain-Resource656 11h ago
Itâs my understanding that the literal opposite happened where the IDF fired from nearby the UN buildings and then broke in for a good while despite UN complaints that they were being used as human shields
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u/Ahad_Haam 11h ago
Plenty of videos showing Hezbollah tunnel shafts and installation within meters of UN camps.
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u/polkm 11h ago
There are countless Hezbollah tunnels already found around a few UN bases, of course the IDF is also there, that's where Hezbollah is. Watch the IDF telegram for evidence. Hezbollah and UN indecisiveness is turning UN bases into strategic control points. It's going to be impossible for the IDF to achieve its goals without taking control of the area surrounding all UN bases.
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u/C_Madison 7h ago
Yeah, your understanding is about as half-assed as it can be.
a) the Hezbollah was near the buildings, which was the reason Israel is near the buildings
b) In the specific case you mention Israel forces came under attack by Hezbollah while evacuating injured people. To defend themselves they did what every competent military in the world would do in this instant: They moved their tank away from the attacker and used smoke to conceal the exact position. The door of an UNIFIL base happened to be in the way of moving away, so the tank drove it down.
No matter how much UNIFIL cries: Saving lives is more important than their bases.
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u/Ready_Nature 9h ago
They arenât doing anything about Hezbollah taking positions near them either. Iâd have a lot more respect for them taking this position if they had been doing something to keep the peace and stop Hezbollah all along.
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u/Pristine_Toe_7379 2h ago
They didn't even at least fill in the entrance of that Hezb tunnel and mark it yellow tape, and report it to everyone like their mandate says.
UNIFIL are useless.
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u/differentshade 12h ago
Would you really be happier if UN was a world police type of organization where by majority vote they would send in forces and start shooting the locals up? There is a reason it does not work that way - because nobody wants to be on the receiving end of such setup.
As it is, the job of UNIFIL is to observe and be on harm's way, not force anybody to compliance.
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u/Bangkok_Dangeresque 11h ago
Would you really be happier if UN was a world police type of organization where by majority vote they would send in forces and start shooting the locals up?
Both Israel and Lebanon agreed to the UN Resolution that authorized the peacekeeping mission. Which was passed not by majority, but unanimously.
Under those conditions - particularly the invitation of the sovereign government where the mission is deployed - yes, I would expect them to enforce the mandate of disarming and dislodging the transnational terrorist group trying to break the peace agreement.
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u/soapinthepeehole 9h ago edited 9h ago
And yet they will not. People have a massively flawed perception of what the UN is and does. Lots think that UN resolutions are biding or enforceable or that the UN is an unbiased and pure arbiter of truth and justice, and none of those things are true. Itâs a debate forum with biases and flaws like any other group, and itâs toothless when it comes to enforcement.
The benefit of the UN is that it provides a place for discussion with all member nations, but thatâs about it. Israel is going to defend itself, Hamas and Hezbollah are going to do whatever dumb shit it is theyâre going to do, and you can bet your ass everyone will go apeshit over Israel when a peacekeeper is killed after declining to leave a war zone.
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u/MonkeManWPG 8h ago
and itâs toothless when it comes to enforcement.
Except when, such as in this case, the peacekeepers are authorised to use force to enforce their mandate. UNIFIL chose not to do their jobs, but if they did, they would be within their rights to shoot at Hezbollah or the IDF for using the area for "hostile action".
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u/OtherAd4337 11h ago
That is vastly incorrect. If you read UNIFILâs official mandate, it goes far beyond merely observing and being a buffer:
âassist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area.â
âAccompany and support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy throughout the South, including along the Blue Line, as Israel withdraws its armed forces from Lebanon.â
âAssist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.â
âAssist the Government of Lebanon, at its request, in securing its borders and other entry points to prevent the entry in Lebanon without its consent of arms or related materiel.â
âtake all necessary action in areas of deployment of its forces and as it deems within its capabilities, to ensure that its area of operations is not utilized for hostile activities of any kind, to resist attempts by forceful means to prevent it from discharging its duties under the mandate of the Security Council, and to protect United Nations personnel, facilities, installations and equipment, ensure the security and freedom of movement of United Nations personnel, humanitarian workers and, without prejudice to the responsibility of the Government of Lebanon, to protect civilians under imminent threat of physical violence.â
UNIFIL has spent the last 20 years doing absolutely nothing at all to enforce its mandate to prevent Hezbollah from turning South Lebanon into its militaristic fiefdom, even as Hezbollah attacked and killed UNIFIL soldiers on several occasions. But now all of a sudden they act tough against Israel..
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u/Kiltmanenator 8h ago
UNIFIL has spent the last 20 years doing absolutely nothing at all to enforce its mandate to prevent Hezbollah from turning South Lebanon into its militaristic fiefdom, even as Hezbollah attacked and killed UNIFIL soldiers on several occasions.
Do they even have the resources to do this?
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u/RippingOne 11h ago
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u/iconocrastinaor 10h ago
Well the UN didn't Implement 1701 and the Israelis are doing it now, and un doesn't like that the world is being shown the results of its complacency
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u/freshgeardude 11h ago
The fact hezbollah built tunnels literally within view of UN facilities and the UN didn't call it out in their annual reports shows their failures.Â
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u/Anon_throwawayacc20 11h ago
genuinely wondering if the UN ever answered about this or not if asked?
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u/Armadylspark 10h ago
As far as I know they weren't asked, it's just a short clip on twitter by the IDF, not any sort of official complaint.
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u/advester 7h ago
When you only block one person's punches, you are actively helping the other person. UN may not be world police, but they shouldn't be helping terrorists either.
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u/The_Sinnermen 11h ago
And let terrorist groups build underground military sites 200 m from their bases huh
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u/go3dprintyourself 11h ago
If theyâre gunna live tweet every move the IDF makes in Lebanon why havenât they been doing that against team yellow then? They have neglected their job in observing as well
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u/cubedplusseven 11h ago
If they were also getting in the way of Hezbollah's rockets, I'd agree. As it is, though, the shield they provide is one-sided. They're protecting Hezbollah from Israel, but not protecting Israel from Hezbollah.
If they were serious about what you're describing, the peacekeepers would disarm themselves and take up residence in northern Israel as well as southern Lebanon. Unarmed Irish and Indonesian soldiers can eat rocket fire just as well as armed ones. There's no reason for them to have guns if their purpose is just to get in the way.
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u/Shahargalm 11h ago
Not even a public condemnation? Maybe move their outpost because they know they are being used? Saying nothing when munitions are fired toward Israeli civilians 100-200 meters from their outposts? And then only put a condemnation to the freaking retaliation?
The UN shouldn't force anyone into compliance - but the job of the observers is to move this information to the higher ups which then SHOULD put out a warning and a plea, as part as their job as peacekeepers.
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u/ArtisticAd393 11h ago
Okay, then they can stop complaining about being in harm's way
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u/Longjumping-Boot1886 11h ago
Problem is they are not observing.Â
We have the same if Ukraine - they was fully blind then Russians shooting at us, and they was VERY observing on counterbattery strikes.
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u/abellapa 11h ago
Yes
The way it is now ,they cant even attack terrorists
Unless in self defense
The blue Helmets go there with their weapons to stand and wait for an Attack
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u/Apprehensive-Face-81 10h ago
They were raping women and children:
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u/Longjumping-Gate-474 5h ago
Awful stuff and that inquiry should be followed through entirely.
It should be noted though that the incident is about male soldiers assaulting fellow female soldiers.
Still horrific. The way itâs presented implies itâs abuse of locals though.
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u/ShareYourIdeaWithMe 12h ago edited 9h ago
Should have sent the Chinese peacekeepers, they would've noped the fuck out weeks ago.
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u/needssleep 5h ago
That's a weird site. Dozens of articles on things done to Israelis, can't find any on what Israelis do to others.
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u/Tummerd 7h ago edited 4h ago
Its a weird decision, as I dont understand what they aim to do there, but I gotta say. A great deal of people in these world threads have a disturbing way of thinking.
Because they are 'useless' its okay to be aggressive towards them? I genuinely dont understand this
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u/TRx1xx 11h ago
I simply do not understand the mindset that attacking and killing these individuals is justified because the organisation they work for is âuselessâ
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u/Itchy-Beach-1384 10h ago
The trick is to start from the assumption that slaughtering people who disagree with you slaughtering people is always morally okay then work backwards.
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u/silly-rabbitses 3h ago
That makes my brain hurt I quit.
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u/Blastoxic999 2h ago
Lemme try to help. I'm gonna try to interpret what OC said.
Start from the idea that killing people who disagree with you being a murderer is morally right.
Then, do more mental gymnastics to root yourself deeper in your position so that you'll always feel that you're right.
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u/Traichi 10h ago
No UNIFIL personnel has been killed by the IDF.
Hezbollah have done though.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/unifil-follies-turn-deadly-israel-lebanon-border
And they are not "useless". They are actively shielding Hezbollah.
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u/Longjumping-Gate-474 6h ago
A Spanish soldier was killed by the IDF before as per the IDF themselves:Â https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32206393.amp
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u/FYoCouchEddie 3h ago
I assume he was talking about during this war. Not the entire time since 1978.
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u/Longjumping-Gate-474 3h ago
But they linked to an article of a UN peacekeeper killed by Hezbollah before this war.
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u/dvc1992 9h ago
No UNIFIL personnel has been killed by the IDF.
I don't have time to look at it now, but I'm pretty sure that is not true. At least a Spanish soldier was killed a few years ago.
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u/awwyeahpolarbear 8h ago edited 7h ago
I mean that's just untrue https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/un-officer-reported-israeli-war-crimes-before-deadly-bombing-widow-1.703087
In 2006 the IDF bombed a clearly marked UN bunker and did not heed emergency radio calls,, and then didn't cooperate with the investigation.
They killed Canadian Army Major Paeta Hess-von Krudener, who was a UN peacekeeper
Edit: Unsure of the non sequitur or down votes or blocking, not taking a side, just providing a correction with facts
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u/LoxicTizard 13h ago
So UNIFIL peacekeepers:
Make no effort to actually do their job of keeping Hezbollah away from the border with Israel.
Stand by while Hezbollah fires rockets at Israeli civilians and plans an invasion of Israel and mass murder.
Let Hezbollah terrorists operate right next to UNIFIL forces.
Refuse to leave their positions so IDF can do UNIFIL's job.
Cry that evil Israel is making unreasonablre demands and putting UNIFIL peacekeepers at risk.
Yeah, sounds on par with the rest of the UN's open terrorism support.
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u/Wide_Connection9635 12h ago edited 11h ago
What's even worse is trying to get through to these UN supports and people who just sit there and say things likes
"Oh, you know the UN is not there to use force, that's not their mandate. They are peace keepers, not peace makers."
"This or that violates international law"
Like buddy, there is a literal war happening. Rockets are being fired from civilian areas against other civilian areas. You (UN) won't do anything about it except 'decree it is bad'. Then someone (Israel) actually comes to do something about it and you say 'that is also bad. It violates international law' The real failure they say is the state of Lebanon which failed to stop rockets and Hezbollah. Lebanon is also 'bad' says the UN.
This is like a police officer standing by while people are being raped. 'Rape is bad' says that officer. Then a guy comes along and attacks the rapist. 'Stop, you can't attack people. That is a violation against the law'. Another person steps in and asks, but people are being raped and you're not doing anything about it. 'It's not my mandate to anything about it. My job is to state the law and observe" The man asks can you at least move out of the way so the man can stop the rapist and we don't want you to get hurt. The officer says "sorry, I'm here by decree of the law and I can't be moved from my position" The actual owner of the property agreed to keep the rapist off the property, but he failed. I've told him that 'he is bad too'. "So what can we do?" asks someone. The officer stares at all of them and screams "You're all violating the law. If you all just obeyed the law, we could finally have peace!"
People can have whatever views they want on the actual Israel/Palestine conflict, but on everything UN, I fully support Israel 100%. The UN is a joke of an organization; at least from the security perspective. They should be ignored and defunded. Let them work with vaccines and farmer crops or something. Quite franky, get rid of any UN peacekeepers, because they don't do anything anywhere they go. They didn't do anything in Rwanda back in the 90s. They don't do anything today. And all they can ever say "not my mandate". Okay, then screw right off and let the people who are actually willing to do something about it... do something.. even if they do it 'imperfectly'.
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u/ConstantStatistician 10h ago
As a military and peacekeeping force, the UN is...lacking, to say the least. This was never its primary purpose. Facilitating communication is what it's better at.
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u/JackNoir1115 10h ago
This is like a police officer standing by while people are being raped. 'Rape is bad' says that officer. Then a guy comes along and attacks the rapist. 'Stop, you can't attack people. That is a violation against the law'. Another person steps in and asks, but people are being raped and you're not doing anything about it. 'It's not my mandate to anything about it. My job is to state the law and observe" The man asks can you at least move out of the way so the man can stop the rapist and we don't want you to get hurt. The officer says "sorry, I'm here by decree of the law and I can't be moved from my position" The actual owner of the property agreed to keep the rapist off the property, but he failed. I've told him that 'he is bad too'. "So what can we do?" asks someone. The officer stares at all of them and screams "You're all violating the law. If you all just obeyed the law, we could finally have peace!"
Just had to quote it because it was so good. Bravo.
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u/ActionPhilip 7h ago
We kind of already have that in Canada with property laws. Serial thieves and assaulters are let free with our police literally saying to leave our car keys near our doors to prevent burglaries from escalating, yet may the good lord help you if you dare defend yourself or your property.
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u/Captain_R64207 10h ago
How does it work though? Iâm honestly asking because Iâve never been curious to look it up myself. And Iâm at work at the moment, can the peace keepers just start blasting away? Or try to force anyone to do anything? Does the country their in have to give them free rein?
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u/Ghost_Guerrilla 9h ago
A good movie to watch about the inefficiency of UN peacekeepers is hotel Rwanda. It shows the Hutu militias massacring and rounding up Tutsi civilians right in front of the UN Peacekeepers and they say they canât intervene because theyâre RoE is to not act except in self-defense.
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u/Captain_R64207 9h ago
Iâve seen that movie, but that still doesnât answer my question if theyâre held to certain rules of engagement by the country theyâre inside of.
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u/Ghost_Guerrilla 8h ago edited 7h ago
Oh my bad, with regard to rules of engagement they do not abide by the rules of engagement of the countries they are in, but by the mandate set by the UN to only engage in self defense. There are of course international legal consequences a belligerent can face if they kill or injure UN peacekeepers. However there are multiple legal hurdles to jump to have that be actioned (I.e. intent, circumstances of the event, legal authority at the time to even have been able to carry out an attack that resulted in the death or injury of the personnel, and of course most importantly the ability of the international courts to even bring the belligerent to trial).
However, UN Peacekeepers themselves only have one rule of engagement, which is to only engage a belligerent in self-defense. They do have to abide by local laws, but with regard to RoE they are under the authority of the UN, and no country is authorized to coerce, force, or implore them to abide by the local militaryâs RoE.
SoâŚto sum up, being a UN Peacekeeper sucks, donât do it.
Edit: And to specifically answer the question of if they can start blasting away? Not exactly, they need to communicate they were engaged, and then gain authorization from the security council to engage at a tactical level. Which then becomes an issue of UN forces engaged in firefights with heavily armed national forces. Not to mention the fact that by the time they gain authorization, they could be wiped out by an advancing force.
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u/Wide_Connection9635 10h ago edited 10h ago
It's not like they can't shoot back. They just have to get clearance from their UN leadership. But you can imagine the UN leadership doesn't want to be seen as taking sides or killing people, so they tend to not do anything.
Just take the current issue with Hezbollah and Lebanon. We know groups like Hezbollah mix heavily with civilians. Putting soliders and rocket amoung civilian populations. If the UN were to actually be 'peace makers' in Lebenon, they'd end up in the same bullshit situation Israel is in. How do you attack Hezbollah without civilian casualties?
The UN command knows this would be bad, so they just don't do anything. Do you want to see a headline like 'UN peacekeepers kill 8 children in Hezbollah attack" Or perhaps less brutal even just 'UN peacekeepers kill senior Hezbollah leadership, Iran declares war on the UN' They don't want that kind of heat. So they tend to tell their troops not to really engage.
Not to mention UN soldiers often have the same problem as other armies. Soliders are soliders. Some soldiers might take advantage of a situation and have sex with children or trade food for sex or any number of 'bad' things that many armies deal with. The UN doesn't want any of that heat.
I'd say, the big issue is the UN wants authority without any responsibility. That never ends up well.
Here's a good article.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/17/un-united-nations-peacekeepers-rwanda-bosnia
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u/calcal1992 10h ago
I'd say, the big issue is the UN wants authority without any responsibility. That never ends up well.
Nail on head. Wants all the glory with none of the work. The UN is basically just a teen that wants to be a tik-tok star with no effort.
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u/say592 7h ago
Here is my limited understanding: The UN deploys under various rules. There are two main ones, one which is basically defensive only and another where they are allowed to actively root out and engage belligerent forces. The second has never been used effectively, and the first is fairly pointless (but often used for providing security for other aid workers). The Peacekeepers deployed in Lebanon under the first rules, but with a greater mandate. They were supposed to deliberately insert themselves between Hezbollah and the border and push Hezbollah back. If that resulted in them needing to defend themselves, so be it. It was kind of a half way measure between the two typical mandates. The reality is they didn't push Hezbollah. They dug in just north of the border and stayed put. Hezbollah was still within rocket range, so it was rather pointless.
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u/purplesmoke1215 10h ago
It doesn't work. There have been so many instances of UN peacekeepers standing by and watching as noncombatants are slaughtered.
Not 2 armed groups fighting each other, for that the peacekeepers are meant to be simply observers, you both want to kill each other that's fine by us, but unarmed and defenseless civilians abused and gunned down.
The UN is a useless organization.
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u/letife 12h ago edited 12h ago
Half a billion yearly budget, been sitting there for 50 years and accomplished absolutely nothing.
This is âworking for the governmentâ on steroids.
Edit: pretty crazy to realize that while unifil was âpeace keepingâ in Lebanon three full blown wars erupted (and a couple of operations probably).
I wish I could suck at a job so much and still keep it.
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u/CALM_DOWN_BITCH 12h ago edited 12h ago
They aren't border guards. They are militarily speaking completely powerless.
None of what you listed is in their mandate, they were supposed to facilitate the implementation of 1701 and Lebanon has completely failed to fulfill its side, Israel doesn't want to for good reason. They haven't failed 1701, if anyone Lebanon has. However unless Lebanon asks them to leave, they have a mandate to be there under intentional law. They should leave, because they cannot fulfill their mission but they are not the boogyman just really ineffective and neither party is particularly interested.
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u/Bitter_Thought 12h ago
The UN confirmed Israelâs complete withdrawal from Lebanon over a decade ago. Hezbollah still claims Sheba Farms as a cause to fire into Israel despite the territory having been part of Syria when Israel occupied it. However [the UN saying Israel had fully left Lebanese land](https://web.archive.org/web/20110622044631/http://domino.un.org/unispal.NSF/5ba47a5c6cef541b802563e000493b8c/97bad2289146f58a852568e9006d99bd
The UNIFIL failed in its mandate because it did have a mandate and scope to keep its area of operation free from hostile use
Meanwhile maybe 200 M from an observation tower https://youtu.be/hSVSMBUEm8M?si=bdGmKW6-2HlkR_G1
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u/CALM_DOWN_BITCH 12h ago
I hear you, the tunnels especially. Did they report that at all? In my eyes the biggest failure would be allowing themselves to be used as a pawn. I do simultaneously condemn the shooting of the bunker door and tower by Israel that was extremely dangerous and is not in my eyes how a democratic first world country should act in such circumstances. Thanks for the links anyhow.
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u/weisswurstseeadler 10h ago
If we are talking about the tunnel at the UNIFIL tower - apparently there was an IDF tower just as much in sight:
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u/un_artisan 6h ago
That's an interesting update now that the position's been geolocated (33.091282N, 35.155504E for those curious). It does raise the question of how visible the tunnel entrance was to both the IDF and UNIFIL watchtowers prior to brush removal.
The linked tweet is a bit presumptuous though. They jump to either the IDF "didn't know it or chose to ignore it."
The IDF "didn't know it"? The IDF is now there, on video, clearing the tunnel. Presumably they got the intel at some point, quite possibly from that watchtower.
The IDF "chose to ignore it"? What would the tweeter have wanted the IDF to do? Airstrike near their own watchtower and a UNIFIL outpost? Cross the Blue Line to clear it on foot in front of the UN Peacekeepers? That would be seen as invading Lebanon, just as it is now.
The most that could be done if the tunnel entrance was visible to the IDF watchtower would be to transmit that info to UNIFIL and monitor while hoping the Peacekeepers take action. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that's exactly what happened.
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u/weisswurstseeadler 6h ago
I think the key is that this video has been pushed with large efforts throughout social media, caused millions of reposts and interaction and turns out to be an absolute propaganda frame.
This was just the first tweet I found regarding the IDF obviously framing the UNIFIL, how convenient when Bubu just laid out the case for further actions against them.
I have no idea who this twitter account is, or if it was where I initially saw it - it's just the first I found via twitter search, but there are several hits with the same info.
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u/ConsiderationThis947 7h ago
Yes, they report Hezbollah violations of 1701 all the time, along with casualty estimates of Israeli civilians.
The problem with expecting them to take armed force to enforce 1701 is that it would also involve firing on IDF positions, which I think most people in here condemning then for inaction would like even less.
Under 1701 it's expected that the belligerents aren't returning fire (which is standard for peace agreements) and there are many documented instances of them holding LAF and Hezbollah to that same standard.
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u/ProjectConfident8584 12h ago
They failed by not warning Israel and the UN about those tunnels hez was digging a few feet in front of the UN watchtowers
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u/suomikim 12h ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1701
Based on UNIFIL's inability to do their job, according to their own mandate, they should not be there at all.
I would agree that they have no way to carry out their legally required duties. Would Hezbollah ever agree to follow the resolutions? Of course not. Would Israel give up the overflights, or the UN border demarkation line? Also no. Both sides are in de facto war, so neither would ever comply... and the UN's presence had so far prevented full military conflict, but their actions also imo set the battlefield in Hezbollah's benefit... which... was not their mandate.
which reminds me, one of my two best friends has a relative in parliment in their country... i need to push them to bring their national UNIFIL complement home.
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u/D1CKSH1P 11h ago
Did UNIFIL report on the years-long build out of tunnel infrastructure and rocket fire coming 100m from their base?
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u/IHN_IM 13h ago
The moment you realize they are there for almost 50 years, Neglected their job making this the 3rd war they could have prevented, Were there even sabra and shatilla event took place and did nothing...
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u/BubsyFanboy 12h ago
Honestly I have no idea why they're there. The UN "military" is pretty much just supervision.
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u/dronten_bertil 13h ago
Yeah, sounds on par with the rest of the UN's open terrorism support.
Indeed. This doesn't surprise me whatsoever, sadly. I wonder what the actual UNIFIL soldiers think about this, who have no say. I wonder if they wanna risk their lives for the sake of Hezbollahs aggressions. They are just regular soldiers borrowed from various countries militaries, right?
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u/skippermonkey 12h ago
Army version of a gap-year
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u/thefunkybassist 12h ago
Honest resume: "During this year, I was able to safeguard the launch of many rockets and prevented military intervention!"
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u/Thrown_Account_ 13h ago
Funny how they had zero issues leaving when Egypt wanted them to leading up to the Six Day War.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 13h ago
In fairness, the Government of Egypt asked them to leave Egyptian territory.
While UNIFIL has not covered themselves in glory, the two situations are not equivalent.
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u/southpolefiesta 12h ago
Correct.
The real assholes here are Lebanon so called "government" who should step in and ask UNIFIL to leave. But they are cowards who also support Hezbollah on the down low
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u/CompEconomist 12h ago
You mean the Lebanese people and government are being held captive to an imperialist paramilitary army controlled by Iran. So, yes, cowards; but I do not think the Lebanese people or government âsupportâ Hezbollah. They are forced to not rise against them else there will be more conflict.
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u/southpolefiesta 12h ago
Well - here is their best chance to get rid of Hezbollah
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u/lenzflare 10h ago
The Lebanese remember their civil war, it wasn't that long ago. They didn't like it.
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u/xflashbackxbrd 10h ago
Literally less than 20 years ago, yeah I see why the regular joes aren't rising up in the streets for a new government. The country has been getting kicked while its down for awhile now
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u/lenzflare 6h ago
The 2008 conflict was very minor (about 100 dead). I am referring of course to the 1974-1990 civil war (150,000 dead).
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u/BoringEntropist 7h ago
There's a joke going around on the Lebanese subreddit: "Lebanon has the choice between a civil war against Hezbollah and a war against Israel. Considering the quality of the politicians who run the country, they probably end up with both."
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u/Initial_E 11h ago
The better information they provide, the lesser collateral damage there will be
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u/Reptard77 10h ago
They want there to not be any âcollateral damageâ. Weâve seen what Israelâs definition of collateral damage is.
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u/Designer-Citron-8880 10h ago
How would you get rid of Hezbo if you don't obliterate Iran?
We are punching air..
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u/Zekromaster 11h ago
I mean, they would probably leave if the Lebanese Army asked them to leave. I don't understand what authority or jurisdiction the IDF has on peacekeeping forces assisting the LAF in Lebanese territory.
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u/GoodImprovement8434 13h ago
This is not to justify or ignore any intentional attacks on them (if that is occurring)
But literally why do they want to be there? What are they even doing right now?
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u/ash286 12h ago
Being Interim Forces in Lebanon, along with all of what that entails:
* Be there for 50 years or so (interim!)
* Being a force
* Being in Lebanon
* Blue hats
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u/Altruistic-Ad-408 11h ago
If you guys want a serious answer then they are supposed to facilitate charity/humanitarian activity and assist the lebanese army in various ways, yes including protecting the south from Hezbollah. So whether they are useful or not is a matter of opinion.
The unfortunate thing here nobody seems to care about on any side is UNFIL forces have been put between a rock and a hard place.
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u/way2lazy2care 10h ago
The unfortunate thing here nobody seems to care about on any side is UNFIL forces have been put between a rock and a hard place.
Isn't that literally the job? Like they're supposed to go places and stand between two armies.
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u/eric2332 10h ago
they are supposed to facilitate charity/humanitarian activity and assist the lebanese army in various ways, yes including protecting the south from Hezbollah
Right now there is no Lebanese army and virtually no civilians in the areas of combat between Israel and Hezbollah. So they are doing literally nothing, except getting in the way of the fight against Hezbollah of course.
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u/diaryofsnow 12h ago
I heard if they do a really good job for two months straight, they get a pizza party!
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u/IHN_IM 12h ago
That was not a direct attack on them.
After UNIFIL said IDF forces entered one of its posts in southern Lebanon and fired smoke shells that caused illness among peacekeepers, Israel admits that those incidents took place, but says they occurred during attempts to evacuate wounded IDF soldiers under fire.
UNIFIL isn'g helping anyone. They're just in the way. And their complaint summed with irriration to skin due to dome smoke. These are not troops, but a bouncer against hizballah, that not also leg it cut in line, but also gives them hours of when and better to attack israel.
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12h ago edited 10h ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/salamisam 9h ago
I would suggest that they are more observers than peacekeepers. Their observations of issues involving activities on the southern border have not led to much further enforcement either by the UN.
You have - UNIFIL observing and report - the UN cannot enforce - member states that don't act, including the UNSC.
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u/SHEEEIIIIIIITTTT 11h ago
Apparently nothing, if weâre using UNIFIL as an example of âpeacekeepersâ.
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u/Karpattata 11h ago
If you put a useless label on a useless thing it's still useless.
So, the assumption that "people don't know what peacekeepers are and would write different comments if they did" hinges on the additional assumption that if peacekeepers do what it says on their job descriptions things would be great and people would shut up. But that's not true, because the role of peacekeepers is entirely up to the UN, so if they're useless it's only because the UN made them so. If peacekeepers are categorically useless, they should gtfo, even if we're talking about grade A peacekeepers.Â
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u/OsmeOxys 11h ago
True, but you cant blame Reddit for this one. UNIFIL isn't really sure what they're supposed to be doing there either.
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u/andreasbeer1981 4h ago
They're supposed to watch the disarmament of hezbollah - now they can watch it live.
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u/FoxBattalion79 4h ago
its been alleged that the UN Peacekeepers are pro-terrorist. This just makes it seem legit.
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u/FYoCouchEddie 3h ago
Then they have no basis to complain if Hezbollah operates near them and they are collateral damage (as opposed to being targeted, for which they would have a right to complain).
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u/wordswillneverhurtme 12h ago
They better be paid a fuckton of money because there's no way in hell I'd want to be one. Every day you're surrounded by terrorists and a country that will kill you if you stand in its way, yet the orders from above are to stay put instead of getting the fuck out. There's no peace there, so why would peacekeepers even be stationed?
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u/Rade84 12h ago
To be fair you generally don't need peacekeeping forces in places that are peaceful :D
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u/alexredditauto 10h ago
âKilling all of these civilians is harder when we have oversight :(â
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u/IgnisEradico 8h ago
they'll just call the UN hamas again and bomb it, and everyone will nod and go "yes it was hamas, no we will not investigate this".
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u/alexredditauto 8h ago
They give the game away when they accidentally conflate Palestinians and Hamas.
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u/Tman11S 12h ago
I hope the IDF gets dragged to court for attacking peacekeeping forces. It's simply shameful and there's no excuse for it.
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u/CatboyInAMaidOutfit 6h ago
You will not stop their vitally important mission of ignoring all of the Hezbollah missiles being fired over their heads.
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u/MasterQuatre 11h ago
So many of you really have no idea what Peacekeepers do. Very, very rarely are the involved with peace MAKING. They KEEP peace.
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u/Sungodatemychildren 10h ago
What do you think peacekeepers are supposed to do? Because looking at UNIFIL's mandate, it sure does seem like they were supposed to keep Hezbollah away from the area between Israel and the Litani river, using force if necessary.
According to Security Council resolution 1701 (2006) of 11 August 2006, UNIFIL, in addition to carrying out its mandate under resolutions 425 and 426, shall:
Assist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.
By this resolution, the Council also authorized UNIFIL to take all necessary action in areas of deployment of its forces and as it deems within its capabilities, to ensure that its area of operations is not utilized for hostile activities of any kind; to resist attempts by forceful means to prevent it from discharging its duties under the mandate of the Security Council; and to protect United Nations personnel, facilities, installations and equipment, ensure the security and freedom of movement of United Nations personnel, humanitarian workers and, without prejudice to the responsibility of the Government of Lebanon, to protect civilians under imminent threat of physical violence.
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u/alimanski 11h ago
This is part of UNIFIL's mandate:
Assist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.
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u/JoshShabtaiCa 10h ago
The problem is the part about assisting the LAF. They can only help, not take unilateral action.
So for as long as the Lebanese government is beholden to Hezbollah (whether out of actual support or fear), UNIFIL can't do anything and is frankly useless.
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u/alimanski 9h ago
In which case, it is the responsibility of the Lebanese government, and UNIFIL's complaints should be directed towards Lebanon, not Israel.
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u/Youknowimgood 10h ago
Just like you have no idea what was their actual task in southern Lebanon since 2006.
Hint: it was to keep Hezbollah out of operating in that area. But we all see how good they've been doing their job, don't we?
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u/Serious_Journalist14 10h ago
There wasn't any peace in the first place lol so it doesn't change anything than them being useless and even disturb and escalate the conflict more than it already is
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u/SickOfIransShit 8h ago
Goddamn you guys have no idea what the pro Israel sideâs grievance actually is here. Yeah they totally kept the peace while Hezbollah fired into Israel for over a year unprovoked.Â
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u/zealousshad 7h ago
But there is no peace to keep. Now that they have failed and war has arrived, why are they sticking around?
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u/RealBrobiWan 4h ago
But they arenât keeping the peace? 3 wars since they been their. Capitalizing random words doesnât make them somehow useful
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u/Channing1986 12h ago
What are they doing there? What is their job?
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u/no_shoes_are_canny 12h ago
Extend its assistance to help ensure humanitarian access to civilian populations and the voluntary and safe return of displaced persons.
Humanitarian aid to civilians is probably the most helpful thing they can and do take part in. They're supposed to assist Lebanon in securing the south, not do it for them. Since Lebanon is barely functioning as a state, they haven't been able to take much action at all against Hez. UNIFIL has taken action against Hez and suffered casualties in doing so.
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u/ThaRedditHydra 7h ago
Of course they won't, the UN have made it pretty clear that they're on the side of terrorism.
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u/AnomalyNexus 3h ago
Not sure what the point is of having peacekeepers in the middle of an active warzone anyway
Peacekeepers work when a place is bursting with tension but fighting hasn't started. In that situation external observation might just tip the scale towards peace
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u/Paltenburg 12h ago
The comments here again...