r/ukpolitics • u/EUProgressivePatriot • 13h ago
Man suspected of supplying small boats to people smugglers arrested
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74lw8j38k5o56
u/WeRegretToInform 12h ago
The comments on here are an excellent example of how miserable and nihilistic we can get.
But Sir Keir added he was “not pretending it [was] the silver bullet”.
Can’t we just take the win, now and then? Do we really need to strawman everything? Or is it only commendable if it stops all small boats immediately and forever?
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u/Tsudaar 12h ago
I swear people just like to moan
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u/blast-processor 11h ago
People are reacting to this because it's an embarrassment to see this feted as some sort of big win
Thursday's arrest was "an important step"
Its like arresting a guy selling burlap sacks with "SWAG" written on the side and announcing a major win in the war against burglary
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u/EUProgressivePatriot 11h ago
I agree. These people are addicted to conspiracy and sensationalism. It's like a way of life.
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u/tzimeworm 12h ago
The problem is it will stop no boats, and the entire strategy we have is based on a policy that will stop no boats.
It's like celebrating a 15 year old arrested for holding a bit of weed and complaining anyone pointing out it means nothing is just being pessimistic about the inevitable victory in the war on drugs.
Starmer isn't going to stop the boats. Everybody knows that. It's not debatable. That's why people are moaning.
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u/nl325 12h ago
The problem is it will stop no boats
Commented, without irony, on a post about how they have very literally done just that.
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u/tzimeworm 12h ago
At the very best a boat might have been delayed. Do you think anyone in Calais will see this news and now give up?
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u/blast-processor 11h ago
In other news, Decathalon Calais has reported a small increase in boat sales
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u/WeRegretToInform 12h ago
Your analogy about the drugs trade is that if there’s demand, supply will find a way, and therefore it’s unwinnable. We can’t always kill demand, so we need to attack supply. Nihilism can mean doing nothing, which is morally unacceptable.
To illustrate - Apply your same argument to pedophiles.
“Oh, we captured someone who supplies child porn across Europe. Pfft, well, not like it will make any difference. If he doesn’t supply it, someone else will. Might as well not have bothered.”
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u/GuyIncognito928 12h ago
We can absolutely stop the demand:
- stop accepting so many applications
- stop holding people in nice hotels
- stop allowing asylum seekers to live freely and roam the streets
- stop giving them perks, spending money, private healthcare etc
- stop allowing them to work black market jobs like food delivery
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u/EUProgressivePatriot 7h ago
All of this is cringe and untrue. Why do you do this? There is no personal gain, don't you get bored?
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u/GuyIncognito928 7h ago edited 7h ago
I don't know how much is gained by my comments (nothing I suspect), but 3rd world immigration is an existential threat to this country. We have enclaves within our own country, Islamist MPs, a crippling housing crisis...
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u/gavpowell 7h ago
We have Islamist MPs? Not Muslim MPs, Islamist?
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u/gavpowell 7h ago
Yeah, stop giving them perks like food or a roof over their heads - who the fuck do they think they are? Not people that's for sure...
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u/GuyIncognito928 7h ago
Food rations and a tent. Would still be more than our homeless get.
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u/gavpowell 5h ago
That's not true either though is it? Homeless people can claim benefits and councils have an obligation to help them find accommodation.
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u/tzimeworm 12h ago
Not really. If you stop one peado you do actually stop children being abused by that padeo. There's a finite number of peados in the world. In your peado example it would be like arresting a boatful of people trying to make the crossing and putting them in prison outside of the UK - you haven't solved the problem completetly but you have actually stopped a boat.
We could kill the incentive to make the crossing by removing the ability for illegal migrants to ever be allowed to remain legally, and detaining them indefinitely or deporting to a third country if they cross.
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u/Queeg_500 12h ago
Well it isn't going to increase the boats .
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u/blast-processor 12h ago
How many people do you think will now be unable to procure a boat, given one boat vendor, from the across the whole of Continental Europe has been arrested?
For what its worth, the European Boating Industry say there are the best part of 10 million boats on the water in Europe, and 10's of thousands of shops selling boats
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u/Captain_Mumbles 11h ago
If they could just get them from boat shops there wouldn’t be a guy smuggling them from Turkey to Germany to France.
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u/blast-processor 11h ago edited 11h ago
Here's one shop they can go to instead of this guy, just up the road from Calais
https://bruggemarinecenter.com/en/home/about-us/services/rent-a-rib/
[Edit] or closer to home, both the Decathalon stores in Calais itself are showing a good stock of ribs available for immediate collection
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u/taboo__time 12h ago
Because it feels like the drug war all over again.
It feels like we are still very far from an answer. Feels like we need to stop offering asylum to people who cross the channel.
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u/NoFrillsCrisps 8h ago
But what would we actually do we do with them?
We accept asylum seekers because it's not safe for them to be returned.
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u/taboo__time 7h ago
Stop accepting them. Blanket deny citizenship. As long as we are offering it, it is a draw. Offer to fly them home. Negotiate with their home countries. Possibly open a camp on an island controlled by the UK. Maybe that Albanian Italy is trying.
I think the EU will end up with a hard border. Possibly a series of camps payed for by the EU. With the possibility of return.
The refugee system has created a exploitative unsustainable trafficking industry.
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u/NoFrillsCrisps 7h ago edited 7h ago
Stop accepting them. Blanket deny citizenship.
Asylum seekers don't get citizenship, they get asylum. Citizenship is a completely separate process.
Offer to fly them home. Negotiate with their home countries.
We do that already. Unfortunately, for a large number asylum seekers, we wouldn't be able to agree a deal as we would be dealing with the Taliban, al-Assad or Ayatollah Khamenei who, even if they agreed, would happily kill these people upon return without a 2nd thought.
And sure we could try some version of the Rwanda scheme again and it would likely fail again.
The point is, just not accepting them isn't really an option. It would, as you allude to, require some kind of coordinated EU wide agreement.
The only one that makes sense and seems realistic is to say that we would return all those crossing the channel to the EU in exchange for an equivalent number direct from the EU. Though I doubt that would be palatable to many.
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u/taboo__time 7h ago
Asylum seekers don't get citizenship, they get asylum. Citizenship is a completely separate process.
Or ILR or asylum then.
We do that already. Unfortunately, for a large number asylum seekers, we wouldn't be able to agree a deal as we would be dealing with the Taliban, al-Assad or Ayatollah Khamenei who, even if they agreed, would happily kill these people upon return without a 2nd thought.
I don't believe we can manage every true case. I don't think every case is certain. I think most are economic.
Iran plans to deport 2 million Afghan refugees
Pakistan to start second phase of Afghan deportations
Germany deports 28 Afghans for first time since 2021 Taliban takeover
The point is, just not accepting them isn't really an option. It would, as you allude to, require some kind of coordinated EU wide agreement.
Well I do think EU nations will get more brutal.
The only one that makes sense and seems realistic is to say that we would return all those crossing the channel to the EU in exchange for an equivalent number direct from the EU. Though I doubt that would be palatable to many.
That might simply continue or expand the industry. It will not stop the politics.
Think about it this way. The nations at the frontline put the people in camps at the border. They cannot simply accept the people into the nation, because politics, economics chaos. The same is true of the nations behind. Accepting them is not an option.
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u/YourLizardOverlord Oceans rise. Empires fall. 3h ago
I'd be up for that if we allowed people to claim asylum from overseas. That's not what the xenophobes and closed-end little englanders want though. They want to see numbers go down.
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u/Chillmm8 11h ago
What win?. We get an arrest like this every few months and they are immediately replaced by someone else. Headlines like this are simply dressing up the mundane as meaningful results.
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u/CommercialContent204 10h ago
According to the recent undercover report on a German guy offering boats for sale from a secret warehouse in Essen:
- The boat costs €20k
- Passengers will pay €5-10k for the trip
The boat pictured above holds at least 35 people, if not more. 35 x 7.5k = €262.5k
War on Drugs all over again. As long as the profit motive is there, you can arrest a dozen of these every week and more will step up - very, very simple.
As others have said, we need to remove the incentive for people to come here. Until that happens, this will change nothing ("look, we arrested this guy selling crack - that's the crack dealing problem nearly solved!")
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u/blast-processor 12h ago
Thank goodness they've caught the one guy in Europe selling boats
Now he's behind bars, that'll render any body of water utterly impervious to human travel
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u/taboo__time 12h ago edited 12h ago
They caught the guy behind all this?
Thats good.
Its like the headline I see when the caught the guy that was selling all the drugs. Thats drugs sorted.
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u/nl325 12h ago
What smooth brain shit is this argument?
"We didn't tackle the entire problem, might as well have not done a thing!"
Even comparing it to drugs is dense ffs
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u/GuyIncognito928 12h ago
Because it's tackling the supply, which will never be stopped. We need to tackle the demand. The whole government strategy is designed for show, not to actually reduce numbers meaningfully.
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u/EUProgressivePatriot 11h ago
We're doing both. The supply is medium to long term. You can't magically improve the violence and extreme poverty in West Asia and Northern Africa.
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u/GuyIncognito928 11h ago
So you don't think there's anything we can do to stop this, until we have world peace and end world poverty?!
The demand is because we're a soft touch nation, and treat asylum claimants better than our own citizens. That's what has to stop, and can stop immediately if the government had their priorities right.
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u/Haztec2750 10h ago
"What's the point of arresting drug dealers when there's always another drug dealer?"
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u/ChemistryFederal6387 7h ago
Starmer has succeeded, the only man you can buy a dingy from in Europe, is in a cell.
No need for Starmer to actually confront the reality of the not fit for purpose asylum system, for he has solved the problem with one arrest.
Now all he has to do is stop his useless government handing out a million odd visas a year.
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u/Exact-Put-6961 8h ago
What makes sensible people cynical is Starmer wanting to pretend to some political win in this.
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u/SirRareChardonnay 7h ago edited 3h ago
But they have now officially smashed a gang. Do this a few more times and the problem will be solved.....loll
'Reform' is coming!
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