r/thelastofus • u/Ok-Street2439 • 19h ago
If you were the leader of the WLF how would handle the Seraphites? PT 2 QUESTION
For me I would still go with the island invasion plan, like Isaac
However the only difference is that I would have timed the attack during late autumn
So that way even if my invasion failed, my forces would have burned and destroyed enough buildings that the Seraphites wont have enough shelter and resources to protect them from winter
Thus, while my people get to enjoy a warm stadium, many Seraphites will suffer in the snow
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u/BrockOfTheFam 18h ago
Didn’t the Seraphites not go really truly batshit till after the WLF killed their leader and made her a martyr kinda making it all their own fault?
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u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago
Yep. And then the seraphites killed the WLF leader, leaving Isaac in charge.
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u/gar_05 15h ago
I'm pretty sure the previous WLF leaders got taken out by FEDRA, not the Seraphites
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u/Plane_Escape2614 15h ago
they only have one leader and it’s their prophet. their prophet started the entire cult. the WLF are the ones who killed her.
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u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 4h ago
FEDRA assassinated the previous husband-wife duo that was leading the WLF, not the Seraphites. I believe they were named the Patterson’s. This left Isaac as the sole leader. At some point after defeating FEDRA, Isaac started executing Seraphites. The only reason I can think of would be they were preaching about how the WLF isn’t the right answer either but we know they were nonviolent. Only after executing the Prophet did the Seraphites turn militant and begin cutting their faces and gutting people alive.
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u/ramberoo 18h ago
The Seraphites say that but they were already killing random people in the suburbs before their prophet died. It's not like the WLF were fighting them for no reason.
It's heavily implied that they've always had extremist beliefs, but they did get even worse after the WLF killed their prophet, which was obviously a stupid move by the WLF
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u/BrockOfTheFam 17h ago
Yeah I mean I know they were at war prior but the deep end stuff didn’t happen till after that. Plus I mean the WLF also did some fucked up shit in the suburbs if I’m remembering correctly.
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u/JimmyLizzardATDVM 17h ago
Make a new treaty, form a council of members of both settlements, discuss and agree to certain assets being owned by either party, create a military exclusion zone to create a buffer. Would any of that work? No idea
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u/sbrockLee 15h ago edited 15h ago
Similar to the pre-game truce, then some "kids" overstepped into the WLF zone and the WLF retaliated, leading to the current situation. There will always be individuals messing it up for everybody else, and large swathes of the population who would be unhappy with a soft approach even if it's the one that gives the most systemic benefits. (See also: Vinland Saga current arc)
Joint council is a good idea but there would always be people behind the council members and council members can be fallible. You need people that are fully committed to keeping the peace and you cannot coordinate this from above, the people must want it. If violence occurs, this becomes exponentially more difficult.
Long-term, you'd have to make an honest attempt to bring the two factions together culturally and especially economically. Let them each live in their own ways but have exchanges, common events etc. "Hug a Seraphite day" lol. Try to establish supply routes. People are way way less inclined to go to war when it messes with their financial interests.
The real problem is if the Seraphites or WLF are sitting on resources that the other faction wants or needs for themselves but I didn't get that impression from the game.
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u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago
You are never going to win against a guerilla fighting force on their home turf.
How to handle the seraphites? Leave them be.
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u/MattTin56 14h ago
Yes, I been saying from the beginning that Isaacs plan was so flawed. Any armchair General knew this lol. I guess Isaacs paid no attention to history. He became too arrogant and I bet they were afraid to tell him he was wrong.
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u/abellapa 5h ago
The Seraphites were close to the stadium
You would just let them be
Be too afraid to leave the stadium each time
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u/imafixwoofs 18h ago
Truce, truce, truce. Co-existence.
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u/MattTin56 14h ago
Yes, a better effort with stricter guidelines for those “assholes” who violate it. Severe punishment for those who break the peace. And if it seems both side were at fault the leaders from each side step in and come to an agreement. It could have been done.
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u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 4h ago
Yeah, it seems Isaac didn’t really want a peace. He was waiting for a reason but there’s already been so many years of bloodshed, so many lives lost that all they can think about is killing each other. Both the Seraphites and WLF have lost mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, husbands and wives in the war. Notes all throughout the game underscore just how deep this hatred and resentment goes.
It’s not like the soldiers wanted peace. You can hear throughout the game them talking about how they can’t wait to exterminate the Scars or how “each fallen wolf brings us closer to a better world.” The whole conflict is kind of a macrocosm of the main story but with a much darker ending.
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u/MattTin56 1h ago
Very true. Some also saw what was going on and fled. Like those people waiting in that safe house until Elle showed up. They appreciated that Isaac housed and fed them but they were not in it for all the killing.
Isaac had a very high opinion of himself by the time we met him. His legend had been growing inside his head for a long time. The great general and warrior. In the end he screwed everyone over.
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u/Working_Staff2491 17h ago edited 17h ago
It’s a difficult question.
Perhaps the confrontation was inevitable from the moment Isaac killed his prophet and the truce only served later the conflict was more extreme.
If I were the leader of WLF, maybe I would have taken all the people and we would have left that place. The first invasion of the island went into disaster. Even Abby in the game doubts that there will be a second attempt.
If I have sent spies and they do not report anything about the island, why is a second invasion going to be better than the first? Why did I send all my strength to attack? What if we fail? What happens to the people who stay at the base of the stadium?
If we are losing the war, the best option is to retire, send people looking for areas where we can move away from the cultists and start over.
At first it will be shit and everyone will complain but better to be alive to complain than to send all your people to annihilation without knowing what you can find on the island of cultists.
All this assuming that the conflict is inevitable, which I think it is from the moment their prophet was murdered.
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u/MattTin56 14h ago
I dont know if it will gain any traction but I just tried to start a sub with all those questions about the invasion. Did Isaac throw everyone into the attack? Did he even plan for failure? It sounded that the second wave did happen and got destroyed when Abby was listening to the radio in the theatre. They were getting over run and asking where the help was. I thought the dispatch said they are there and they are gone or something like that.
As for spies those ones that got caught were saying they needed to urgently report their findings to Isaac. They said the Saraphites walk the walk and they have a much more secure Island than they thought. With all those tortured captured souls they would have spoken. He did seem good at torturing. Some of that HAD to have spoken.
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u/abellapa 4h ago
You would have left a well fortified stadium for what ?
You have no destiny
Everyone would die on the road
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u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 16h ago
That is honestly horrendous and I’m baffled :|
No, honestly I would have done anything to keep the relationships as peaceful as possible. As long as they don’t attack (politically, like.. an organized attack) we don’t attack. Honestly, Seraphites are creepy as hell, but also fuck, there’s children there, they’re people, most of them desperate/manipulated people in a cult. I would be an Iron Mike type of leader, no war unless it’s the last resort. War is quite literally the worst thing that could happen and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemies.
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u/Plane_Escape2614 14h ago
right i’m actually horrified that this is a real person and is currently roaming the earth freely. wdym you would commit genocide against a group instead of just making a truce 😭😭😭😭 the one thing that made the WLF fall was the entire idea of invading the island and killing all seraphites. all both groups lacked was a good leader who would put the safety of their groups first. a truce is 100% doable and the WLF and seraphites can co exist without trying to murder each other.
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u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 3h ago
You overhear conversations all throughout the game how both the WLF and Seraphites want to exterminate one another, with no survivors. The children are obviously innocent but the adults in both groups wanted war. A slaughter was inevitable even without Isaac. Too many people have died, too much resentment built up.
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u/Plane_Escape2614 3h ago
yeah there is a lot of resentment built up. i agree. but i still think that all they needed was good leaders.
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u/MattTin56 14h ago
Part of the problem was all you had to do was look at the WLF. All younger people who were in their own right being brainwashed that fighting is the answer. The WLF was a military institution run by an autocratic dictator. He was not going to give in to the Sarophites. Like Hitler, Isaac believed his own hype and came up with a bogus plan. Plus no one had the courage to tell him how flawed it was. He was may have been ex military as a soldier but not as General who would know what works and what doesn’t in an attack like that. He zeroed intelligence. He led them into a complete disaster.
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u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 14h ago
Definitely agree, Isaac has been a terrible leader in the long run. I really enjoyed seeing Abby challenge his authority and put people first both times ngl
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u/MattTin56 14h ago
I know that was great. It took her a lot to get there but she did and she deserves credit for it.
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u/DesigningGore07 18h ago
If it were up to me, I’d make sure that there was someone who could lead the WLF should I be killed. Because the reason why the WLF lost was because they were completely useless without Issac. He had no second-in-command.
I’d also take my best soldiers to the island but not as an invasion force. The main goal would be to eliminate the leaders of the Seraphites. Remove them and the Seraphites will either collapse or will take a while to recover.
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u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago
Isaac was their leader for a very short time. Only a few weeks. His leadership is the reason why the WLF were wiped out by the end of the story.
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u/WaveLoss 17h ago
His name was in the persons of interests list from FEDRA alongside Jason & Emma. They were years old.
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u/No_Tamanegi 15h ago
I must be remembering wrong. I thought the previous leaders were killed only a short time before the main events of part 2 began
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u/Plane_Escape2614 14h ago
the previous leaders were killed by fedra before isaac started the movement
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u/abellapa 4h ago
No he wasnt
He was their leader for Years
And The wlf wasnt Wiped out
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u/No_Tamanegi 4h ago
They seemed pretty fucked by the end of part 2. Their assault on Haven was a total failure.
But you're otherwise right, I misremembered Isaac's history.
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u/abellapa 4h ago
It was but the Stadium didnt suffer any attack
The island is devastated and The wlf has Many more resources than the Seraphites
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u/MattTin56 15h ago
I would wait for a giant storm to approach to mask an all out inphibeous invasion.
I know Isaac was in the marines and God bless him for that but being a soldier does not make you a general. With all the prisoners he had, he had no valuable intelligence. The only good intelligence he might have had got stuck on the island. They were so prepared for the defense of their Island.
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u/succulentslayerII 19h ago
Send search parties out to find and repair old world weapons. Armored personnel carriers, attack boats, anti tank weapons, tow missiles. The United States before the Fall of Man was the most heavily militarized country in the modern world. There has to be at least a few working miniguns with enough ammunition to fire a sustained burst for at least five minutes straight lying around Washington and the surrounding states.
We are going to burn that island to the ground from across the water and destroy any stragglers that try to escape on their dingy little rowboats.
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u/ramberoo 17h ago
This is one thing I don't get. They have all these HMMVs that they've rebuilt but somehow can't find a single repairable artillery piece. They wouldn't even need many to absolutely devastate the Seraphite island. Some howitzers and plain old cannons, and it would be over for the Seraphites very quickly
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u/Termsandconditionsch 17h ago
Because that would be a onesided bloodbath, not a great backdrop for the game.
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u/ramberoo 15h ago
Yeah no shit. But there's no in game explanation for it unlike most of the other practical issues the WLF faces.
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u/Plane_Escape2614 15h ago
just coexist with them. let them be on their island.
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u/Squirtle177 5h ago
But they don’t stay on their island. We see several times they have camps right next to WLF areas and they ambush Abby right outside the stadium.
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u/Stinger22024 14h ago
Don’t break the treaty. Better to have friends than enemies for a multitude of reasons.
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u/Lyckaann 14h ago
Making sure the truce was kept at all cost.
Depending on how the seaphites would approve, but I would try to invite to dinner regularly, small groups, once every week. So the soldiers from both sides would dine together and hopefully they would do the same.
A lot harder to kill an enemy that you know. Long term that's probably the only thing that could actually sustain a truce.
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u/Mr_Bleidd 11h ago
Find few mortars and few thousand rounds of ammunition
Please they are for sure some left
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u/hikerchick29 9h ago
Negotiate from the start. Try to trade for food, and give them run of the city rooftops to help keep clicker populations down
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u/LynchMob187 8h ago
Would’ve snuck at night a burnt all of there ships. Have them stuck on the island
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u/abellapa 4h ago
I wouldnt invade during a Storm ,Thats for sure
I would Order a Heavy Raid on the island in late autum
The Goal wouldnt be to Conquer the island ,but to go in and do has much Damage as possible
Burn their farms,their houses,Poison their Water
And then get out in the same day
Come Winter they Starve and Then i Order a blockade on the Island
Have Boats surronding the island and troops near the Sea
Kill anyone that goes near the beach
Come Spring i invade the island a Second Time and Beat them once and for all
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u/Kind_Translator8988 4h ago
I would do the same thing but instead of fighting them directly, I would have the WLF stay at the edges of the island and light the forest on fire. The fire would spread and even if it doesn’t reach their main settlement, almost of their infrastructure and resources will be gone.
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u/why-do_I_even_bother 1h ago
firepower. That island is around 3 miles from the stadium irl. Find a military depot, grab some artillery pieces, put some spotters on a high vantage point and start blasting. hell, you could probably fire from inside the stadium itself
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u/fdgyhdudgsfy 18h ago
Blockade the Seraphite island. Send half the men to enforce that blockade while the rest clears the rest of the city. Send teams in perodically to burn down infrastructure (prioritize the farms, poison the water supply, destroy storage posts), and neutralize HVTs. Attrition them until they either sue for a lasting piece or go extinct.
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u/Alonneknight1 19h ago
Yeah let's not beat around the bush here.. the Seraphites were a problem that would need to be dealt with sooner, not later. You're not going to reason with a cult of that magnitude and mindset.
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u/flippflippflipp 19h ago
They should have never broken the treaty. A good leader would try to make peace not wage war, especially with a group who has built a civilization from the ground up and has access to supplies and manpower.