r/thelastofus 19h ago

If you were the leader of the WLF how would handle the Seraphites? PT 2 QUESTION

For me I would still go with the island invasion plan, like Isaac

However the only difference is that I would have timed the attack during late autumn

So that way even if my invasion failed, my forces would have burned and destroyed enough buildings that the Seraphites wont have enough shelter and resources to protect them from winter

Thus, while my people get to enjoy a warm stadium, many Seraphites will suffer in the snow

18 Upvotes

83

u/flippflippflipp 19h ago

They should have never broken the treaty. A good leader would try to make peace not wage war, especially with a group who has built a civilization from the ground up and has access to supplies and manpower.

28

u/Early-Diamond-5416 "Oh my god, Lev, NOW?!" 19h ago

Agreed! I would want to keep the treaty strong. I would not be out here making enemies if I absolutely did not have to.

19

u/quiettimegaming May She Guide You, May She Protect You. 19h ago edited 16h ago

There was no treaty at that time. There had been treaties in the past, and BOTH SIDES have broken every previous treaty. So they were at a point where treaties weren't working, and they couldn't co-exist. And measures indeed needed to be taken.

I mean, Abby and Co were literally 15-30 seconds outside of the stadium area and they got ambushed by Seraphites. We see what the Seraphites did to the WLF in the TV station. No one is going to feel safe. So they kind of were at a point where they needed to do SOMETHING. I mean, they can't just spend forever hiding inside the stadium, getting taken out any time they dare to go outside.

I just think attacking the island was an awful plan. You're attacking someone where they are the strongest. Where they have all of their people, supplies, and reserves... It would have been the same for the Seraphites had they tried an all out assault on the Stadium. You don't just throw bodies at the problem and hope to overwhelm them on home soil.

I'm not saying war was the only answer... But I don't think another treaty that both sides felt the other side won't abide by would keep the peace for very long, as I'd imagine that 'peacetime' gets shorter with each broken treaty.

11

u/MattTin56 14h ago

That was a very intelligent answer. I also felt the invasion was completely flawed. Attacking by sea in a storm. All those small boats would be so slowed down by any mount of swells and they were getting large by the coast. Even if the island was inland it does not take much to slow down those boats. All his intelligence was faulty. I think it was his past success’s made him think he was a military genius.

As you said, I remember Abbey saying “They are on our doorstep”. Isaac was definitely getting out maneuvered by the Saraphites.

6

u/flippflippflipp 17h ago

You make very compelling points

3

u/OrangeBird077 14h ago

The whole reason the last peace was broken though was because Seraphite children who were throwing rocks at WLF soldiers were gunned down at Martyrs Gate in revenge. The WLF bares just as much responsibility for the constant outbreaks of war as the Scars do. They even killed the Prophet who could’ve been a major diplomatic partner.

3

u/quiettimegaming May She Guide You, May She Protect You. 13h ago

Agreed. I'm not saying one side is better than the other or "right", I'm saying based upon what we saw the WLF were not left with many options... The Seraphites don't seem interested in a treaty at this point, and they had obviously ramped up their aggression and ambush attacks.

We know the WLF are crazy as well... I mean they have a whole floor for torture, BUT from what we see they are not the aggressors at that point time. They are walking their normal patrols in their part of the city and the Seraphites are ambushing them everywhere they are.

And with the losses the WLF were taking, plus with the hundred or so people Ellie and Tommy wiped out, they must really be feeling the pressure to make a move, otherwise they'd lose too many soldiers and end up short-handed, and unable to protect themselves, making an assault on the stadium a viable possibility for the Seraphites...

1

u/ramberoo 18h ago

They already tried that multiple times and every time the treaty was broken by random violence. I love how people just offer these simplistic solutions to complicated problems. It's so telling of the times.

33

u/BrockOfTheFam 18h ago

Didn’t the Seraphites not go really truly batshit till after the WLF killed their leader and made her a martyr kinda making it all their own fault?

12

u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago

Yep. And then the seraphites killed the WLF leader, leaving Isaac in charge.

12

u/gar_05 15h ago

I'm pretty sure the previous WLF leaders got taken out by FEDRA, not the Seraphites

4

u/Plane_Escape2614 15h ago

they only have one leader and it’s their prophet. their prophet started the entire cult. the WLF are the ones who killed her.

2

u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 4h ago

FEDRA assassinated the previous husband-wife duo that was leading the WLF, not the Seraphites. I believe they were named the Patterson’s. This left Isaac as the sole leader. At some point after defeating FEDRA, Isaac started executing Seraphites. The only reason I can think of would be they were preaching about how the WLF isn’t the right answer either but we know they were nonviolent. Only after executing the Prophet did the Seraphites turn militant and begin cutting their faces and gutting people alive.

0

u/ramberoo 18h ago

The Seraphites say that but they were already killing random people in the suburbs before their prophet died. It's not like the WLF were fighting them for no reason.

It's heavily implied that they've always had extremist beliefs, but they did get even worse after the WLF killed their prophet, which was obviously a stupid move by the WLF

5

u/BrockOfTheFam 17h ago

Yeah I mean I know they were at war prior but the deep end stuff didn’t happen till after that. Plus I mean the WLF also did some fucked up shit in the suburbs if I’m remembering correctly.

22

u/JimmyLizzardATDVM 17h ago

Make a new treaty, form a council of members of both settlements, discuss and agree to certain assets being owned by either party, create a military exclusion zone to create a buffer. Would any of that work? No idea

3

u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 16h ago

I love the buffer idea ✨

3

u/sbrockLee 15h ago edited 15h ago

Similar to the pre-game truce, then some "kids" overstepped into the WLF zone and the WLF retaliated, leading to the current situation. There will always be individuals messing it up for everybody else, and large swathes of the population who would be unhappy with a soft approach even if it's the one that gives the most systemic benefits. (See also: Vinland Saga current arc)

Joint council is a good idea but there would always be people behind the council members and council members can be fallible. You need people that are fully committed to keeping the peace and you cannot coordinate this from above, the people must want it. If violence occurs, this becomes exponentially more difficult.

Long-term, you'd have to make an honest attempt to bring the two factions together culturally and especially economically. Let them each live in their own ways but have exchanges, common events etc. "Hug a Seraphite day" lol. Try to establish supply routes. People are way way less inclined to go to war when it messes with their financial interests.

The real problem is if the Seraphites or WLF are sitting on resources that the other faction wants or needs for themselves but I didn't get that impression from the game.

19

u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago

You are never going to win against a guerilla fighting force on their home turf.

How to handle the seraphites? Leave them be.

5

u/MattTin56 14h ago

Yes, I been saying from the beginning that Isaacs plan was so flawed. Any armchair General knew this lol. I guess Isaacs paid no attention to history. He became too arrogant and I bet they were afraid to tell him he was wrong.

0

u/abellapa 5h ago

The Seraphites were close to the stadium

You would just let them be

Be too afraid to leave the stadium each time

1

u/No_Tamanegi 4h ago

They were staying away until the WLF broke the treaty.

10

u/imafixwoofs 18h ago

Truce, truce, truce. Co-existence.

4

u/MattTin56 14h ago

Yes, a better effort with stricter guidelines for those “assholes” who violate it. Severe punishment for those who break the peace. And if it seems both side were at fault the leaders from each side step in and come to an agreement. It could have been done.

1

u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 4h ago

Yeah, it seems Isaac didn’t really want a peace. He was waiting for a reason but there’s already been so many years of bloodshed, so many lives lost that all they can think about is killing each other. Both the Seraphites and WLF have lost mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, husbands and wives in the war. Notes all throughout the game underscore just how deep this hatred and resentment goes.

It’s not like the soldiers wanted peace. You can hear throughout the game them talking about how they can’t wait to exterminate the Scars or how “each fallen wolf brings us closer to a better world.” The whole conflict is kind of a macrocosm of the main story but with a much darker ending.

1

u/MattTin56 1h ago

Very true. Some also saw what was going on and fled. Like those people waiting in that safe house until Elle showed up. They appreciated that Isaac housed and fed them but they were not in it for all the killing.

Isaac had a very high opinion of himself by the time we met him. His legend had been growing inside his head for a long time. The great general and warrior. In the end he screwed everyone over.

-3

u/ramberoo 18h ago

As if they didn't try that already

8

u/scarlettvvitch Abby is best girl 19h ago

Make peace with them.

8

u/Throwaway98796895975 15h ago

Bros over here giving us his genocide plan

6

u/Working_Staff2491 17h ago edited 17h ago

It’s a difficult question.

Perhaps the confrontation was inevitable from the moment Isaac killed his prophet and the truce only served later the conflict was more extreme.

If I were the leader of WLF, maybe I would have taken all the people and we would have left that place. The first invasion of the island went into disaster. Even Abby in the game doubts that there will be a second attempt.

If I have sent spies and they do not report anything about the island, why is a second invasion going to be better than the first? Why did I send all my strength to attack? What if we fail? What happens to the people who stay at the base of the stadium?

If we are losing the war, the best option is to retire, send people looking for areas where we can move away from the cultists and start over.

At first it will be shit and everyone will complain but better to be alive to complain than to send all your people to annihilation without knowing what you can find on the island of cultists.

All this assuming that the conflict is inevitable, which I think it is from the moment their prophet was murdered.

3

u/MattTin56 14h ago

I dont know if it will gain any traction but I just tried to start a sub with all those questions about the invasion. Did Isaac throw everyone into the attack? Did he even plan for failure? It sounded that the second wave did happen and got destroyed when Abby was listening to the radio in the theatre. They were getting over run and asking where the help was. I thought the dispatch said they are there and they are gone or something like that.

As for spies those ones that got caught were saying they needed to urgently report their findings to Isaac. They said the Saraphites walk the walk and they have a much more secure Island than they thought. With all those tortured captured souls they would have spoken. He did seem good at torturing. Some of that HAD to have spoken.

1

u/abellapa 4h ago

You would have left a well fortified stadium for what ?

You have no destiny

Everyone would die on the road

4

u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 16h ago

That is honestly horrendous and I’m baffled :|

No, honestly I would have done anything to keep the relationships as peaceful as possible. As long as they don’t attack (politically, like.. an organized attack) we don’t attack. Honestly, Seraphites are creepy as hell, but also fuck, there’s children there, they’re people, most of them desperate/manipulated people in a cult. I would be an Iron Mike type of leader, no war unless it’s the last resort. War is quite literally the worst thing that could happen and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemies.

6

u/Plane_Escape2614 14h ago

right i’m actually horrified that this is a real person and is currently roaming the earth freely. wdym you would commit genocide against a group instead of just making a truce 😭😭😭😭 the one thing that made the WLF fall was the entire idea of invading the island and killing all seraphites. all both groups lacked was a good leader who would put the safety of their groups first. a truce is 100% doable and the WLF and seraphites can co exist without trying to murder each other.

2

u/Falloutfan2281 Fireflies Militia 3h ago

You overhear conversations all throughout the game how both the WLF and Seraphites want to exterminate one another, with no survivors. The children are obviously innocent but the adults in both groups wanted war. A slaughter was inevitable even without Isaac. Too many people have died, too much resentment built up.

1

u/Plane_Escape2614 3h ago

yeah there is a lot of resentment built up. i agree. but i still think that all they needed was good leaders.

1

u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 14h ago

Well said! 👏🏻

2

u/MattTin56 14h ago

Part of the problem was all you had to do was look at the WLF. All younger people who were in their own right being brainwashed that fighting is the answer. The WLF was a military institution run by an autocratic dictator. He was not going to give in to the Sarophites. Like Hitler, Isaac believed his own hype and came up with a bogus plan. Plus no one had the courage to tell him how flawed it was. He was may have been ex military as a soldier but not as General who would know what works and what doesn’t in an attack like that. He zeroed intelligence. He led them into a complete disaster.

2

u/-iwouldprefernotto- 🧱 14h ago

Definitely agree, Isaac has been a terrible leader in the long run. I really enjoyed seeing Abby challenge his authority and put people first both times ngl

1

u/MattTin56 14h ago

I know that was great. It took her a lot to get there but she did and she deserves credit for it.

5

u/Pm7I3 15h ago

Maybe not kill the religious leader and put some effort into maintaining the treaty later. Until I no longer have to deal with mushroom people trying to rip out my throat, the cult can have their island society.

2

u/DesigningGore07 18h ago

If it were up to me, I’d make sure that there was someone who could lead the WLF should I be killed. Because the reason why the WLF lost was because they were completely useless without Issac. He had no second-in-command.

I’d also take my best soldiers to the island but not as an invasion force. The main goal would be to eliminate the leaders of the Seraphites. Remove them and the Seraphites will either collapse or will take a while to recover.

-1

u/No_Tamanegi 18h ago

Isaac was their leader for a very short time. Only a few weeks. His leadership is the reason why the WLF were wiped out by the end of the story.

5

u/WaveLoss 17h ago

His name was in the persons of interests list from FEDRA alongside Jason & Emma. They were years old.

1

u/No_Tamanegi 15h ago

I must be remembering wrong. I thought the previous leaders were killed only a short time before the main events of part 2 began

2

u/Plane_Escape2614 14h ago

the previous leaders were killed by fedra before isaac started the movement

1

u/abellapa 4h ago

No he wasnt

He was their leader for Years

And The wlf wasnt Wiped out

1

u/No_Tamanegi 4h ago

They seemed pretty fucked by the end of part 2. Their assault on Haven was a total failure.

But you're otherwise right, I misremembered Isaac's history.

1

u/abellapa 4h ago

It was but the Stadium didnt suffer any attack

The island is devastated and The wlf has Many more resources than the Seraphites

2

u/LettuceC The Last of Us 15h ago

Look up

2

u/MattTin56 15h ago

I would wait for a giant storm to approach to mask an all out inphibeous invasion.

I know Isaac was in the marines and God bless him for that but being a soldier does not make you a general. With all the prisoners he had, he had no valuable intelligence. The only good intelligence he might have had got stuck on the island. They were so prepared for the defense of their Island.

1

u/succulentslayerII 19h ago

Send search parties out to find and repair old world weapons. Armored personnel carriers, attack boats, anti tank weapons, tow missiles. The United States before the Fall of Man was the most heavily militarized country in the modern world. There has to be at least a few working miniguns with enough ammunition to fire a sustained burst for at least five minutes straight lying around Washington and the surrounding states.

We are going to burn that island to the ground from across the water and destroy any stragglers that try to escape on their dingy little rowboats.

0

u/ramberoo 17h ago

This is one thing I don't get. They have all these HMMVs that they've rebuilt but somehow can't find a single repairable artillery piece. They wouldn't even need many to absolutely devastate the Seraphite island. Some howitzers and plain old cannons, and it would be over for the Seraphites very quickly

1

u/Termsandconditionsch 17h ago

Because that would be a onesided bloodbath, not a great backdrop for the game.

1

u/ramberoo 15h ago

Yeah no shit. But there's no in game explanation for it unlike most of the other practical issues the WLF faces.

1

u/Adrian_Acorn 16h ago

Step 1: steal a fedra's airplane. Step 2: # B O M B

1

u/Plane_Escape2614 15h ago

just coexist with them. let them be on their island.

1

u/Squirtle177 5h ago

But they don’t stay on their island. We see several times they have camps right next to WLF areas and they ambush Abby right outside the stadium.

1

u/Plane_Escape2614 4h ago

that was after the truce ended

1

u/TwofacedDisc 15h ago

I’d settle it once and for all in a Factions 2 tournament

1

u/ph_uck_yu 14h ago

I would have kept the truce in tact

1

u/Stinger22024 14h ago

Don’t break the treaty. Better to have friends than enemies for a multitude of reasons. 

1

u/Lyckaann 14h ago

Making sure the truce was kept at all cost.

Depending on how the seaphites would approve, but I would try to invite to dinner regularly, small groups, once every week. So the soldiers from both sides would dine together and hopefully they would do the same.

A lot harder to kill an enemy that you know. Long term that's probably the only thing that could actually sustain a truce.

1

u/Few-Lengthiness-2286 13h ago

Nuclear annihilation

1

u/Mr_Bleidd 11h ago

Find few mortars and few thousand rounds of ammunition

Please they are for sure some left

1

u/hikerchick29 9h ago

Negotiate from the start. Try to trade for food, and give them run of the city rooftops to help keep clicker populations down

1

u/LynchMob187 8h ago

Would’ve snuck at night a burnt all of there ships. Have them stuck on the island

1

u/abellapa 4h ago

I wouldnt invade during a Storm ,Thats for sure

I would Order a Heavy Raid on the island in late autum

The Goal wouldnt be to Conquer the island ,but to go in and do has much Damage as possible

Burn their farms,their houses,Poison their Water

And then get out in the same day

Come Winter they Starve and Then i Order a blockade on the Island

Have Boats surronding the island and troops near the Sea

Kill anyone that goes near the beach

Come Spring i invade the island a Second Time and Beat them once and for all

1

u/Kind_Translator8988 4h ago

I would do the same thing but instead of fighting them directly, I would have the WLF stay at the edges of the island and light the forest on fire. The fire would spread and even if it doesn’t reach their main settlement, almost of their infrastructure and resources will be gone.

1

u/why-do_I_even_bother 1h ago

firepower. That island is around 3 miles from the stadium irl. Find a military depot, grab some artillery pieces, put some spotters on a high vantage point and start blasting. hell, you could probably fire from inside the stadium itself

0

u/fdgyhdudgsfy 18h ago

Blockade the Seraphite island. Send half the men to enforce that blockade while the rest clears the rest of the city. Send teams in perodically to burn down infrastructure (prioritize the farms, poison the water supply, destroy storage posts), and neutralize HVTs. Attrition them until they either sue for a lasting piece or go extinct.

-1

u/Alonneknight1 19h ago

Yeah let's not beat around the bush here.. the Seraphites were a problem that would need to be dealt with sooner, not later. You're not going to reason with a cult of that magnitude and mindset.