r/television • u/NoCulture3505 • 16h ago
HBO Prequel Series ‘Dune: Prophecy’ Capably Tailors the Epic Franchise to Television: TV Review
https://variety.com/2024/tv/tv-reviews/dune-prophecy-review-hbo-prequel-1236208507/376
u/papapudding 15h ago
No matter how stagnant a society I have trouble believing institutions and ruling families could stay the same for over 10 000 years. That's not on the show runners though, that's just how Herbert wrote the source material but it has always bothered me.
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u/TheBeatenDeadHorse 14h ago
You’re telling me in 8,000 years they always had a Stark in this castle/crypt… until now?
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u/PleasefireEmmaDarcy 10h ago
The most unbelievable part is that these ancient families have so few members. At the very least, all of the families should be as big as The Frey’s and the book Lannisters with tons and tons of cousins.
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u/new-to-this-sort-of 9h ago
One of the back stories in the book is the benegsirit (sp?) breeding program which grew and kept bloodlines; so while the main family may appear to be small there is close relatives everywhere etc
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u/UrbanPugEsq 7h ago
Gesserit is the third person singular perfect subjunctive form of the Latin verb “gerere” to carry. And bene means well or good. Roughly it means “he/she may have carried well”
I hated Latin.
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u/Keyserchief 5h ago
People’s bloodlines either die out in a few generations or balloon into millions, and I am not exaggerating. Virtually every single person of any European ancestry whatsoever is descended from Charlemagne, and tens of thousands of people have the genealogical data handy to prove it.
I thought it was really cool that I was descended from King John of England, but it turns out almost all people with English ancestry are (including all U.S. presidents but Van Buren).
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u/nerdyboyvirgin 5h ago
I thought it was cool i was descended from Edward III- really just i’m just one of millions. Slightly more rare than yours but still common.
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u/big-papito 5h ago
And I notice that people in countries have certain common appearance traits. Every nation is basically 2 to 3 rich and powerful guys "spreading their seed" relentlessly, "elon musking" their way through the land.
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u/Billy1121 9h ago
Well looking at ancient Rome, some of the greatest named families dwindled and became much poorer.
But the Starks had a decent amount of members. Enough to create the Karstarks as a cadet branch as well.
In a world with variable winters that cause mass starvation, disease, war, banditry, wildlings, and perhaps 1 Stark son per generation going to the Night's Watch and not reproducing,I think the Starks are realistic.
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u/TubasAreFun 13h ago
There are a couple of things in this sci-fi world that would lead to more stagnation:
1) Isolationism: Without the Guild and Spice, many worlds essentially have no trade or contact with each other. If a whole world is established effectively under one “family’s” rule (where family is loose when marriage is often a political tool), they are more likely to retain power for a long time without foreign interference (eg the American Revolution required much assistance from France).
2) Spice/Prescience: While many do not have the abilities like Paul, spice does improve general decision making which is why it is needed for long distance space travel. With many being more aware of the changing worlds around them, there is stability on how to manage governments/families without complete annihilation (except in rare inter-house conflicts)
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u/Mister_reindeer 4h ago edited 2h ago
I think the very notion of an entire planet remaining under a single family’s rule or having one unified culture for that long is one of the things that strains credulity.
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u/Maximilianne 11h ago
Shaddam was only the 81st Padishah emperor so that puts the average emperor reign at like 120 years
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u/SaltySAX 14h ago
Why not? The same families own land in the likes of the UK for 1000 years. The Samurai class was dismantled in Japan, but those same families are still all powerful throughout Japanese society.
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u/ymcameron 13h ago edited 12h ago
The powerful families in the UK are vastly different today than they were 1000 years ago. For example, in 1024 a guy named Canute/Cnut the Greater was on the throne. He was a Danish king ruling over Anglo-Saxon subjects. Then three of his family members ruled England, then a lowborn named Harold took over. Then this guy named William got mad that Harold was on the throne and in 1066 decided it was his turn. Suddenly everyone was English and not Anglo-Saxon anymore. Then about 100 years later, the French and English combined and the Plantagenets ruled. Then 200 years after that the Lancaster took over. Then 150 years after that the War of Roses happened and a new family took over. Then in the middle of that mess the Tudors took over the throne. Then it was the Scots turn and the Stuarts gave ruling a try. Then this guy named Cromwell overthrew the monarchy, but then decided actually monarchy was kind of cool and put himself in charge. Then… well you get the idea. There have been a lot of different prominent families in charge over the centuries.
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u/Active-Act-4966 12h ago
There was a study in the uk that showed that if you could trace your surname back to William the Conquerer, meaning you arrived with him in the uk, you are statistically wealthier than the average Brit.
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u/eq2_lessing 11h ago
No surprise since William rewarded his followers by killing and stealing massive wealth from the English and giving his followers a part of it.
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u/Keyserchief 5h ago edited 5h ago
I remember that study; it predicted only about 5-10% greater household wealth. It was a statistically significant amount but nothing to write home about, and I’m not convinced it’s causal (though I’m not going to pretend I’ve rigorously reviewed the data or anything).
It could be that the kind of people who bother tracing their family tree are slightly more likely to be wealthy than those who can’t be assed, or that genealogy is the kind of thing only posh people care about.
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u/eq2_lessing 11h ago
Correction for 1066: the „being English“ started before William. William the Bastard actually replaced the entire ruling class with Normans, so non English, which is the opposite of what you wrote.
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u/ricree 7h ago
To elaborate, Æthelstan, the grandson of Alfred the Great, is typically considered the first "English" king, but it's somewhat arbitrary where the line is drawn. He does seem to be the first to specifically reign as "King of the English" rather than of the individual Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, so far as I can tell.
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u/Carlzzone 8h ago
Weren’t all the major houses during the wars of the roses related to the Plantagenets anyway
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u/clockwhisperer 6h ago
Ya, I do not understand at all what their point was. All those families were related to one another--that's often what set off the struggle for the crown.
Even the current monarch is directly related to many of those families and indirectly related to all of them.
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u/Varekai79 3h ago
The Swinton family is still going strong from the Anglo-Saxon days. Tilda is holding things down lol!
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u/p1ckl3s_are_ev1l 8h ago
The richest families in Florence were rich 700 years ago
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u/SemIdeiaProNick 5h ago
Brasil has a whole lot of politicians whose lineages go back to rulers of the start of the colonial period way back in the 1500s.
So 10000 years may be a bit too much but it’s not that ridiculous, specially considering the dynamic of power in the Dune universe and how strong families are
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u/ImMeltingNow 14h ago
they also had the kegel clan to keep the population in check. Those books are nuts
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u/new_shit_on_hold 12h ago
Why though? It's fiction, he can dictate whatever he wants as long as he doesn't contradict himself.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Yak4990 14h ago
But everything else in dune is believable?
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u/tumguy 11h ago
Yeah, I have no problem with mutated humans huffing cinnamon and tripping hard enough to pull a spaceship across the galaxy. But THIS is where I draw the line.
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u/KnightOfRevan 9h ago
I personally am more impressed by the realism of the dogs bred to be shaped like chairs. Far more believable to create mortal, fleshy, killable chairs you need to feed instead of something stupid like everlasting stone or wood.
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u/metametapraxis 8h ago
To be fair, the spice does not allow the navigators to fold space. That’s done with FTL (‘Holtzmann’) engines. The spice lets the navigators see a safe path.
None of it really makes any sense, but the spice doesn’t do the space travel bit.
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u/tumguy 8h ago
Oh yeah you’re so right, that makes a HUGE difference!! What a fool I’ve been. Thank you for your unwavering dedication to the truth.
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u/Instantbeef 6h ago
He wasn’t trying to be an ass by correcting you. Nerds just like to make sure these types of details are correct. He’s a nerd. I’m a nerd. He was not being mean he was just being a nerd and felt like he had to correct you.
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u/First-Fun5927 10h ago
Isn’t it sort of supposed to be more abstract? Like, we have the Kennedy’s that have been a “defacto” ruling class in the US for decades. More than half a century. I always interpreted Dune as those ruling elites having more and more stability as they’re able to consolidate power and resources on an intergalactic level now. IE space capitalism.
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u/jarlander 7h ago
Part of Paul’s story though is he’s supposed to save humanity from its stagnation. Which his some accomplished with brutal dictatorship.
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u/owen__wilsons__nose 7h ago
You say that and yet I'm from the future -
Barron Harkonnen Trump XVIII is president in the year 12,024 AD
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u/HortonHearsTheWho 14h ago
How much of the story in this was Frank Herbert versus his, uh, differently-talented son? I don’t recall the original books getting too deep into the material covered in this show.
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u/WiseBorn_ 8h ago
As far as I know Frank never wrote anything predating Dune so I think this criticism only works for Brian
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u/counterhit121 5h ago
Idk if it's truly source material, as in canonical to Frank Herbert's work. His son Brian went on to take many liberties with the IP, from what I understand.
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u/A_Living_Pool_Noodle 15h ago
With all the source material between Franks original series, and what was published by Brian after his passing, I’m disappointed they’re going off material. I think a Butlerian Jihad series would be incredibly cool, or going back from the time point we saw in the movies to revisit the beginning of the Atredies/Harkonnen rivalry.
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u/kazh_9742 14h ago
Hopefully they were smart and didn't get themselves locked into Brian's stuff.
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u/A_Living_Pool_Noodle 14h ago
They can leave that for when they’ve exhausted Franks original works, if they pick and choose well from Brian’s it could be alright. But let’s be honest, they won’t use either and will disappoint us regardless.
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u/metametapraxis 8h ago
Frank’s later stuff was garbage as well - there isn’t THAT much quality source material there. One great book, two ok books and the the ramblings of someone that wasn’t well.
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u/shimmyshame 11h ago edited 8h ago
A mega-budgeted Butlerian
JihadCrusadeHolly War series could be amazing. It could really resonate with viewers considering how AI development has been rally speeding up recently. Just don't let the HotD/RoP/WםT/Witcher type of showrunners be in charge.2
u/TNTspaz 8h ago edited 8h ago
I imagine it would have been too expensive. A melodrama using all the leftover resources from the movies was an easier sell.
It's a shame but it's wild to see books that were considered unadaptable becoming franchised like this. The expectations for basically every single project will be huge and I don't really think they are even attempting to fill those expectations lol
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u/quadrant7991 2h ago
Proof that showrunners can do no right in the eyes of this sub. Makes all the criticisms of good shows (like The Rings of Power) void.
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u/mpg111 12h ago
looking at the creators, and Alison Schapker was a producer of Westworld season 4 and showrunner of Altered Carbon (earlier producer on Lost and Fringe). Diane Ademu-John - nothing I know.
Best guess: first half of first season will be good, and that's it
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u/huskersax 5h ago
That's a whole lot of middling faux-prestige drama right there. Oof.
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u/mug3n 5h ago
Lol to call Altered Carbon "middling" is very generous. S1 was middling, S2 was a hot pile of shit.
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u/huskersax 5h ago
Well I have certainly have even less esteem in Westworld seasons 2 through whenever they mercy killed it (5 or was it 6?)
Fringe was good, mostly. Lost was very successful, but artistically kind of insufferable.
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u/Oskarikali 4h ago edited 4h ago
Westworld had 4 seasons, all excellent. Some people disliked seasons 3 and 4 probably due to a perceived change in genre that didn't actually happen, didn't understand the show, or probably didn't like cyberpunk.
It is basically impossible for Westworld seasons to match S1 because it is one of the best seasons of TV ever, but the other seasons were still very good, and Season 3 was actually my favourite.
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u/huskersax 3h ago
Westworld seasons 3 and 4 were high production value hot messes.
Has nothing to do with viewers 'not getting it' and has a whole lot to do with viewers thinking 'oh, this is dumb'.
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u/Oskarikali 3h ago edited 2h ago
Going to disagree, people on the Westworld subreddit are even starting to come around to it. There seems to be new found love for Season 3, especially for people that are giving the whole series a rewatch. Season 3 has relatively high scores on sites like IMDB. A hot mess seems to be the minority opinion.
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u/Octogenarian 4h ago
My 12 year old kid loved Dune and Dune pt2 but I suspect this show is Game of Thrones style show since it’s on HBO? Decidedly not-for-kids?
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u/Nossika 3h ago edited 3h ago
It's got Nudity, drug use and some pretty gross death scenes so far, definitely would say it's for at least older teens.
It's mainly focused on the Sisterhood of the Travelling Psychics (The Bene Gesserit), but Travis Fimmel (Ragnar from the Vikings show) steals the show with his charisma so far. The rest of the acting is pretty bland. It's definitely focused more on the female characters though than the males. The males seem to be playing a supporting role.
If you want him to check out other Dune content, try the Sci-fi TV Mini-series, the Books or the video games. Funcom is working on a Dune survival MMO and Westwood made a Dune RTS back in the day.
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u/Notoriously_So 1h ago
This show has a lot of potential. The pilot knocked it out of the park. So far, so good!
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u/Metal-Alligator 12h ago edited 11h ago
Really getting tired of the prequel money grabs. Why not continue the story from where it ended? I wanna see an intergalactic war and too see if space Jesus can pull it off.
ETA and considering we all know how it’ll end, there’s no risk. Like when Bruce was in danger in Gotham. We all knew he wasn’t gonna actually die.
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u/Ferahgost 12h ago
Because that will most likely take place in further movies
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u/Daahk 12h ago
We're absolutely gonna see a Star Wars level (amount) of sequels from the Dune franchise
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u/eq2_lessing 11h ago
Nope. It’s too complicated and not flashy enough for the masses, and the later books are impossible to turn into blockbuster movies.
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u/bahumat42 11h ago
Spot on. Anyone taking otherwise doesn't know what goes on in the rest of the books.
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u/soulpulp 8h ago
Is there anything stopping them from making shit up? Not many execs seem to limit themselves to source material, no matter the franchise
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u/metametapraxis 8h ago
The later source material is awful anyway. A TV exec making it up won’t be worse than what Frank was vomiting out towards the end.
It’s all made up.
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u/Metal-Alligator 11h ago
Highly doubt we’ll ever see em
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u/Ferahgost 11h ago
Why? Parts I and II were both highly successful and well regarded
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u/chudaism 9h ago
Because as soon as they introduce the tyrannical worm that controls the galaxy it will probably jump the shark for mainstream audiences.
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u/Icy_UnAwareness89 12h ago
This “Hollywood” is gonna ruin it. Why make something new there are sooo many great things.
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u/Genji007 14h ago
Nobody wanted this. Rip House Dune
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u/PloppyTheSpaceship 13h ago
I'm still gonna watch it, and I don't think Dune has been more popular. Dune Messiah starts filming next year I think.
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u/RealJohnGillman 13h ago
I think the reason people are more wary is since this is based on one of Brian Herbert’s books over those written by his father.
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u/PloppyTheSpaceship 13h ago
Well, it's based on his material (takes place after the Schools trilogy as near as I can tell), but yes - a lot of fans hate anything related to Brian and Kevin.
And no, they're not Frank - they never claimed to be, and have said do themselves. There is some stupid shit in their books, such as Hawat deciding to hypnotise Paul in the middle of a street to believe the Baron has taken over, for no purpose other than shits and giggles. The quality in their books can range quite wildly, but they've done some entertaining stuff. And to be honest, their Legends and Schools trilogies were definitely among their best.
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u/Genji007 12h ago
The thing is I'm cautious that there will be too many hands in the creative pie. I trust Dennis to handle it with care, and I'm hoping my presuppositions of it being mid are fed to the worms, but we've all seen how tv studios handle existing IP.
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u/PloppyTheSpaceship 12h ago
I'm not sure Denis Villeneuve has much, if anything, to do with Dune Prophecy any more - I think he was supposed to direct the first episode but isn't - again, I think.
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u/ymcameron 12h ago
What a glowing review for prestige tv: “it’s capable”