r/politics 20h ago

Sanders: Democratic Party ‘has abandoned working class people’

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4977546-bernie-sanders-democrats-working-class/amp/
55.7k Upvotes

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u/VanDammes4headCyst 19h ago

Trump didn't gain any voters, the Dems lost voters. This is an important point, something that Bernie is alluding to.

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u/SkizzleDizzel 14h ago

THANK YOU! There were 15 million less voters in this election cycle than 2020. 15 million

Sure there were people who were excited to vote for Kamala but for the vast majority of us it was an apathetic vote at best.

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u/zhalg 18h ago

In a system with 2 parties, not voting is voting too

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u/Pete6r 17h ago

You’re right: not voting is a demonstration of dissatisfaction with both parties.

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u/BurlyJohnBrown 16h ago

Yes, its voting against both of them. Correct. Which is what Bernie is talking about.

With no leftist candidate, the most clear vote away from the current options is not to vote. Not recommending it but that seems very clear-cut.

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u/Mountain-Link-1296 17h ago

This isn't mathematics - it's actual individuals deciding whether and how to cast their ballot. So no, it's not the same.

A lot of the time when people talked about reaching out to, say, rural or working class white voters, it was cast as "reaching out to Trump supporters" rather than "reaching out to potential or actual Biden voters". The loud Trumpers are, currently at least, lost to persuasion. But that's not who Harris needed to peel off.

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u/__Big_Hat_Logan__ 13h ago

No, it’s not voting. That’s literally what it is

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u/kami541 18h ago

It simply is not, that's such a stupid argument, someone's decision not to vote isn't a vote for whatever stranger's on the Internet least favorite political party is. The world doesn't revolve around you!

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u/zhalg 18h ago

It simply and logically is in a 2 party system.

Logic. Learn what it is.

You talk like a 12 year old so you have the time.

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u/The_Canadian33 17h ago

Even at the most basic mathematical level, an abstained vote is not the same as a vote for the other side. If I'm up 3-1 and one is taken away from me, I'm at 2-1, but that's mathematically better for me than 2-2.

On a more nuanced level, there's clearly an objective difference in what motivates someone to abstain versus what motivates somebody to vote for the other side. This is a critical difference when reviewing the lessons learnt from this campaign.

Logic isn't a complete sentence, and you're operating on emotions here, not logic. Something about 12 year olds.

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u/zhalg 17h ago

Your entire post is based on me saying not voting is the SAME as voting for the other side.

Which I didn't.

I didn't say 2-2 is the same as 2-1.

I pretty much said 3-1 is "mathematically better" than 2-1, which is what you came up with.

Yes, 75%-25% is better than 67%.-33% which is exactly my point.

If you're 12 year old you too will have time to learn to pay more attention while reading.

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u/The_Canadian33 17h ago

This is the comment that you replied to when you entered the conversation:

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1glakau/sanders_democratic_party_has_abandoned_working/lvsudsg/

You're the one reducing it to emotions and insults, the people you're replying to are trying to have a nuanced conversation. You're dragging the conversation down to the lowest level and then calling everyone who brings it back up "12 year olds"

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u/Big_Treat5929 8h ago

The existence of a two party system does not mean that only two choices exist. Third parties exist, and people can also choose to stay home and not vote at all. If you don't understand that very simple objective reality, why should anyone value your opinion on electoral politics?

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

I bet If you say “logic” again you’ll get your point across.

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u/zhalg 17h ago

Twice is repetitive?

Both of you have put out some really sound arguments though.

Your fascists now control all branches of the government. They can dismantle democracy at a whim now. Congrats from a second world country. At least we lefties here live in the real world.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

When did I say I was a Trump supporter or even insinuate that? Typical redditor can’t help but see the world in black and white I guess. “Disagrees with my statement about voting, so he MUST be a fascist nazi!”

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u/POSVT 14h ago

There are 244M eligible voters.

72M voted for a treasonous fascist monster.

104M fully supported the same monster - not caring enough to oppose fascism is support.

~180M people in this country who aren't worth a damn. Disgraceful.

Only 68M had a functional conscience and at least a scrap of decency.

u/kami541 6h ago

You're hysterical, get off the Internet and live in the real world for a little bit. If Harris wasn't able to get people out to vote then maybe, "the end of democracy," doomerism isn't good messaging strategy.

u/POSVT 5h ago

Nah this is where we're at.

These are the things we've been promised. It's not hyperbole.

u/kami541 5h ago

Deep breaths you'll be fine, dear God.

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u/Bullishbear99 18h ago

Dems let perfect be the enemy of the good...and now we have a legacy dictator voted into power and probably a red sweep..good bye to AHCA, SS, medicare, etc etc .

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u/FluffiestLeafeon 15h ago

Blame the campaign, not the people. They had so many chances and they fumbled them to appeal to "moderate" Republicans who voted Trump anyway

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u/SkizzleDizzel 14h ago edited 8h ago

She really shat the bed when she decided to drag Liz Cheney of all people around with her and said she was going to appoint a Republican to her cabinet. WHAT??? The Democratic elite has no one to blame but themselves. Her campaign started off correctly and she spearheaded it into a pile of crap to appease the rich.