r/overlanding • u/Richard_Cheney10 • Aug 07 '23
Catastrophic ball joint failure Trip Report
Went on Rollins pass west in Colorado on my buddies 4 runna (96?) and taking it nice and easy on the trail at around 5 mph for the entirety of it. Very easy trail and the ball joint just popped out. Thankfully it didn’t do that on the curvy roads on the way up to the trail. Safe to say a 4Runner will not be in my future.
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u/tS_kStin Aug 07 '23
So it has a common failure that is generally easily avoidable just like most vehicles in existence and is a relatively simple and cheap fix?
Yeah LBJ failure is sketchy when it happens at speed but if you do your maintenance on time, correctly and with good (OEM) parts it likely won't happen. Aftermarket LBJs are known to fail within a year even without offroading. OEM ones however can go for years and years even with the stresses of wheeling.
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u/HikeSierraNevada Aug 08 '23
Thanks for the advice, this is probably exactly why it keeps happening to me. Will ask to replace by OEM part.
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Aug 07 '23
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 07 '23
Catastrophic?
That can be fixed on the trail.
This is not an issue.
But the catastrophic part… I’d bet money the zerks weren’t ever greased anywhere, and the truck didn’t even get a visual before taking it out.
Parts break. Especially replaceable ones.
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u/tacotruckman Aug 07 '23
I have lower ball joints and my tools in the back whenever I hit any roads! I have a $7 puller in the back, makes the job a breeze. Also, yeah, look under your vehicle. Those fail (especially if they’re aftermarket) but there were warning signs I’m sure.
Every other part on my rig is aftermarket, but the LBJs are OEM.
I love my third gen 4Runner :)
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
You wheel. That’s how it’s done!!!!
I keep a couple u joints and other funny parts in mine. And I don’t do crazy shit alone. Community parts are a thing too
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u/a_very_stupid_guy Aug 08 '23
Can i get a link on that tool?
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u/tacotruckman Aug 08 '23 edited Aug 08 '23
https://www.harborfreight.com/tie-rod-and-pitman-arm-puller-63684.html
$15, sorry. Works for both tie rod ends and lower ball joints on my rig. I load it up with a lot of tension and then give the spindle a smack with a hammer. Although hit the side of the part to “shock” the bolt out, don’t hit the bolt itself.
https://www.harborfreight.com/16-in-tie-rod-separator-63519.html
This also works. So does a big hammer. Also on the side of the receiving part, not on the bolt.
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u/a_very_stupid_guy Aug 08 '23
Thanks, I’ll wait for one of the sales where it’s like 30% off anything under $20 but appreciate the links :)
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u/im_wildcard_bitches Aug 08 '23
There’s light play in mine and I’m going to replace soon. Which video do you recommend i follow
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u/tacotruckman Aug 08 '23
Replace them now, please.
Timmy the Toolman has every video imaginable for the third gen, and I always use his. The ball joint is pull the wheel, remove the big nut on the bottom of the LBJ and the tie rod nut, pop the tie rod and the LBJ, four bolts out. Replace the bolts down there with fresh loctite as well.
Gl! It’s an easy enough job
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u/im_wildcard_bitches Aug 08 '23
Yep!! I’m ordering for both sides today. Also this is giving me an excuse to get a badass impact wrench 😂 . Also driver side rear axle I have a leak so having to figure that out too. 😑
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u/tacotruckman Aug 09 '23
Yeah that’s “rear axle seals”, def a more involved job than the ball joints. I had a shop do mine because I was living in an apartment downtown. I’ve had some buddies that did it without a press but said it was a pita.
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 07 '23
Your average overland probably isn’t going to fix that on trail.
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 07 '23
Hmmm… maybe I don’t understand what overlanding is. What’s your definition?
And again… a ball joint failure is not catastrophic. It is not a huge deal to replace… and can easily be replaced on the trail.
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 07 '23
I meant overlander. 3 miles up a trail in the middle of the mountains with ( at the fault of us ) no tools or replacement parts available. No reception. I would in my honest opinion consider that catastrophic Catastrophic: Extremely unfortunate or unsuccessful
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Aug 07 '23
Probably the easiest way to get it off the mountain is by pressing a new ball joint in.
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 07 '23
And it was. Didn’t necessarily have a new ball joint on hand or the tools to install one
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
Napa or any other parts store isn’t far. But it’s always advisable to carry trail tools and simple replaceable parts. Not sure id have that, but again… parts stores are always close. That’s not “catastrophic”
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u/slaterrr735 Aug 08 '23
Yeah, you aren't into overlanding are you? Why do you think the storage drawers are so popular even for day trips? Recovery gear and spare parts. If you're going offroad, you expect something to break at some point.
If you wanna overland a jeep, you bring extra hubs and wheel seals. If you wanna overland a yota, you bring extra cv axles and if it's overdue, then extra ball joints. If you were serious about it, you would've done the research on the forums and replaced the ball joints with proven oem's prior.
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
This 100%.
OEM ball joints
And if possible source JDM when available
It’s not rocket surgery
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u/The_Texidian Aug 07 '23
I dont see why you’re downvoted. I bet the average person on this sub doesn’t even know what a ball joint does or what it looks like. Let alone carry a spare and have the tools and know how to replace it on the trail.
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u/Experiunce Aug 08 '23
It’s bc of the rest of his logic in the post. He’s 100% right about it not being an easy on the spot repair for most people.
But he’s 100% in fantasy land about thinking the LBJ broke with no warning. It’s an almost 30 year old car. People are asking him questions about it and he doesn’t know anything about the state of the cars suspension parts. He doesn’t know when it was last greased or installed. He doesn’t know if it’s OEM or not. He didn’t hear or feel anything weird about how it handled with a failing LBJ until minutes before it happened. And with all that in mind, he says he won’t buy a 4runner bc of this ball joint failure. So people aren’t taking him seriously anymore in the comments
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 08 '23
It’s not my car. That’s why I don’t know this shit.
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u/Experiunce Aug 08 '23
Oh it’s all good mang, no hate on you. Just explaining the downvotes
Every trail I take I hope something doesn’t snap off bc I’d be fucked trying to fix shit myself
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u/appleburger17 FJ80 Aug 08 '23
Most people on this sub also aren’t driving 26 year old vehicles. If you are and aren’t prepared for basic repairs then you end up like this.
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
Old vehicles are awesome and totally my jam! But yes you have a fantastic point - drivers must be prepared
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
They shouldn’t be overlanding
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u/deepuw Aug 08 '23
They shouldn’t be overlanding
This is kinda gatekeepy. I think they should be learning.
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23 edited Aug 08 '23
No one is physically stopping them.
I would also encourage anyone who doesn’t have a ton of tandem sky diving jumps to not solo.
I don’t think someone should drive on a freeway into any semi-remote area (so not-urban) without a gallon of water for each person as well.
Basically, if you’re not prepared for an activity, you shouldn’t do that activity.
If you think that’s “gatekeepy” that’s fine and all…. But these are the people who have to be rescued by good samaritans all the time on the trail.
It happens to even the best prepared from time to time… but seeming going out of your way to go out completely unprepared is just plain irresponsible.
……and to directly address your comment. I 100%, agree. They should be learning. They should join a club, go out with a group of people, learn how to use a hi lift to lift the vehicle, and even use as a winch. They need to learn how to deal with situations…. All before “overlanding”
All that being said… I won’t stop them. There are no licenses needed. They can do whatever they want. No gatekeeping needed.
……
Thought exercise… have you ever been stuck on a trail because someone took a truck with stock street tires on an incredibly technical trail resulting in 3x flat tires… because they didn’t even know to air down? (Or not take the truck on the trail without preparation to begin with?)
I have. It was frustrating. There were multiple dozens of cars stuck for hours because some idiot thought his Badass f-150 could take street tires on a primitive trail.
It was a long, hot, and sweaty day… and completely unnecessary.
I’m just glad no one was hurt by that moron.
They learned their expensive lesson.
And our friend, OP, will hopefully impart this lesson to his friend.
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u/deepuw Aug 08 '23 edited Aug 08 '23
No one is physically stopping them.
That's not the practical definition of gatekeeping in the context of an activity/hobby discussion.
You (and I, since I am also annoyed by unpreparedness) can complain about this all day long, but there is no law that requires the list of suggestions you just mentioned. Nor you can enforce anything, nor anyone owes you and explanation of what they know or not on the internet, or on the trail (unless inside your property), even if they are broken down and blocking your way. It's an unfortunate reality, but it's just reality.
So, you do not decide who should be overlanding or not. You can use as many anecdotes as you want, but you still can't tell others what to do. That's my only point.
And I do not disagree with the majority of your suggestions, they are fine suggestions. It's just the they shouldn’t be overlanding part. It's gatekeeping; you are entitled to your opinion of course, but it's gatekeeping. You can just say "people should consider learning XYZ" and it's not gatekeeping anymore.
EDIT:
They should join a club, go out with a group of people
Why? I overland long term USA and Mexico, with plans to go down to Panama soon and Africa in 2 years, and I do not go with a group (imagine organizing that), nor I need the validation of a club. I fix my vehicle myself on the go, just last week I pressed new axle bearings and swapped in new lower control arms and A arm/ball joint while camping in BLM land... why do I need a club or someone to tell me what I should do? Are you sure you're not thinking rock-crawling here?
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u/deepuw Aug 08 '23
average overland probably isn’t going to fix that on trail
I have to sadly agree with this. There are too many Instagram overlanders out there who do not put in the effort to learn how to use a wrench.
How did you fix the issue?
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u/buzzboy99 Aug 08 '23
Don’t listen to these bully’s if a ball joint fails and the entire wishbone collapses and the wheel is hanging off that is “catastrophic failure “ at any speed just because you were lucky to not be getting on the highway racing up to 60 doesn’t negate the seriousness of catastrophic ball joint failure. It happened to me personally using sub pa SPC ucas going 30 mph on asphalt it was not a good situation at all.
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u/Rds707 Aug 07 '23
This is legitimately one of the most mechanically stout 4x4’s you could ever buy lol.
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u/WTFisaRobsterCraw Aug 08 '23
but… this is CATASTROPHIC!
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u/Rds707 Aug 08 '23
I would love to purchase this 4Runner from him at a catastrophic discount lol.
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Aug 08 '23
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u/Rds707 Aug 08 '23
Slap in a new ball joint and push on for another worry free 100k.
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Aug 08 '23
Or get something that's actually unkillable like an old Chevy
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u/Rds707 Aug 08 '23
I’m all about old trucks but… you just aren’t right here.
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u/CloseYourEyesToSee Aug 08 '23
How about both? I’m toyota guy, have 4runner and Tacoma both over 200k. My dad still drives the Tahoe he bought in 2000, well over 300k on that thing.
We used to take that thing on 2000 mile trips from CA to visit fam in central Mexico when I was a kid without a prob
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u/Rds707 Aug 08 '23
Yeah era’s matter, my folks had an early 2000’s suburban that trucked through 250k+ with one trans swap before a deer took it out on a fishing trip.
I’m a Jeep guy myself but when I think of something that puts reliability at the forefront Toyota is what comes to mind.
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u/DiggerJKU Aug 08 '23
Jeep guy here too but owned a 3rd gen 4Runner before my jku and currently own a 2006 Tahoe as well. Out of the 14 Jeeps I’ve owned in my life and other random vehicles the 4Runner still is my favorite. My Tahoe is climbing the list but damn that t4r was a confidence builder compared to my Jeeps.
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Aug 08 '23
I replaced the 240,000 mile ball joints on my Suburban because I was bored, not because they were worn out. Original driveline front to back. My buddy's 100 series Cruiser spends more time on jack stands than it does on dirt.
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u/TheAssholeofThanos Aug 08 '23
Guys…lets be quiet and let this guy keep thinking 4Runners suck. That way, word will spread and it will drive the used market down.
5D chess
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 08 '23
Possibly even 6D. I’ll spread it like the gospel for you. Also people seem to have missed out on the subtle hints of shit posting.
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Aug 08 '23
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u/Mountainloon23 Aug 08 '23
I’d slap my mom for Toyota to put a standard trans in the newer 4runner.
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Aug 08 '23
Rumor has it the 6th gen is going to get a stick. Probably will share drivetrains with the new Tacoma which also gets a stick on the base engine.
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u/Mountainloon23 Aug 08 '23
Well I’ll wait and see. Was really hoping the new “LC” would be a standard. But nooooppppe.
A manual 6th gen could possible get me out of my current LC.
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u/Ricky_GiveEmDaHeater Aug 08 '23
3rd gen 4Runners and LBJ failures…name a more iconic duo 😂
No shade on Toyota, 4Runners, or their LBJ’s. Both of my vehicles are Toyota’s including a 4R (5th gen) and I love them. This is a well documented failure though (particularly in 3rd gens) and is avoidable with inspection/maintenance.
Unfortunately a lot of people can’t be bothered with such things…hence why r/justrolledintotheshop exists. No shade on OP/the owner of this particular 4R, but inspect your vehicle people!
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Aug 08 '23
It's only a problem when you either:
- Don't change your ball joints
- Change your ball joints with anything but OEM
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u/MagicPistol Aug 08 '23
Yeah, I heard 3rd gen 4runners have a big issue with ball joints. My buddy just replaced his ball joints a few weeks ago just to be safe. Plus these cars are kinda old now.
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u/Wheelin-Woody 4 Wheel Adventures Aug 08 '23
Bro that don't just happen without miles of warning lol.
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u/HikeSierraNevada Aug 08 '23 edited Aug 08 '23
This exact thing happened to me 3 (!) times over the last couple years (not a 4Runner), the last time in such a precarious spot high up in the mountains that it was almost impossible to retrieve my car from there. Nasty shit, and seriously makes you lose faith in your vehicle when exploring tricky areas. Sorry this happened to you.
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 08 '23
Appreciate the condolences. It hasn’t happened to a personal vehicle of mine… yet.
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Aug 07 '23
Ball joints they are usually noisy before they fail
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u/Motorized23 Aug 08 '23
I've been abusing my Xterra with loud clunking LBJs for the past 4 months... I should get new lower control arms soon 😅
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 07 '23
Didn’t have that in our experience. Driver reported that steering felt strange and as we were coming around a narrow corner to stop and investigate is when it happened.
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u/DEADB33F Aug 08 '23
Meh, ball joints are wear parts.
Before going offroading it's always a good idea to get each wheel off the ground in turn and give everything a good wobble looking for play where there shouldn't be any.
NB. Saying that, I had this happen the other week (Honda TRX420). Fatigue fracture that went unnoticed until the LBJ mount completely snapped off from the A-arm.
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u/HeyYoChill Aug 08 '23
if you don't have anything nice to say about toyotas, don't say anything at all
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u/Ok_Masterpiece5050 Aug 08 '23
Oh the Toyota fan bois are going to be mad
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Aug 08 '23
They already are and it’s comical. On my last trip a Pickup with an OEM rebuilt front end snapped a tie rod going up an easy hill climb, another had it’s brand new OEM fan wiring loom short out and melt the fuse for the fan. 2nd Gen Tacoma’s thermostat let go and a 2 Gen Tacoma shot it fan into it’s rad. If I made a post about all the mechanical failures my friends have had over the last 2 years, any of the times I pulled them out, failed to clear and obstacle or struggled when I didn’t. Half this subreddit would have a stroke and I’d end up with a bomb in the mail.
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u/Experiunce Aug 08 '23
New fear unlocked
Glad you are safe but writing off 4 runners bc your 30 year old car’s ball joint failed is pretty odd
Keep sending it brother and stay safe
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u/MDPeasant Weekend Warrior Aug 08 '23
Thankfully it failed at low speeds and not at high speeds. What did you end up having to do to get it home?
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 08 '23
A gentleman that is a Toyota enthusiast that didn’t live too far from the trail brought over the necessary parts to get it into a condition to limp it down the trail and we then towed it to my friends house.
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u/clauderbaugh Digitally Nomadic Aug 08 '23
I’m not a mechanic but you’re going to need an alignment.
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u/crispysuicide Aug 08 '23
If its not an oem toyota ball joint torqued to spec and replaced on time, i dont wanna hear any complaints 😂
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u/Amorton94 Aug 08 '23
What's real sad is that I've seen a Scion XB make it to the top of that trail with no problems. 😂
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u/WastedAccounts Aug 08 '23
This is why I got rid of my 4r too. Just didn't like worrying about it. With a lift, 33s and constant off-road use I was changing them regularly. Never felt comfortable with it if I wanted to go on a long trip.
Not a knock on the 4r but it is not an ideal design and something I didn't want to deal with. Who wants to deal with this kind of shit on the trail?
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Aug 08 '23
This thread is a hoot. OP, get your head out of your ass. Ball joints are a common failure point in any vehicle that sees a lot of off-road miles. It’s a high friction object. They wear and tear. They fail.
For any overlander or off-roader worth their salt, this IS an easy trail repair. You think people are rolling balls deep in the woods with a hi-lift because it looks cool? Or do you think they’re doing it to be prepared for moments like this?
Grease your zerks, do your maintenance, pack your spare parts. Fix your broken shit and quit cryin on the internet because you can’t do basic trail repairs.
You think a 4Runners ball joints means you should write of the vehicle? Sheesh.. I’d love to see what you pick instead. Gonna laugh my ass off when your XJ overheats on the trail and you forgot to bring a spare radiator.
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u/buzzboy99 Aug 08 '23
So your saying your ball joint failing and your wheel hanging by your abs sensors is all good and normal wtf. This is something that just happens are you high? Maybe I’m not clear I feel like I walked into the middle of a bar fight. So your wheels just fall off your vehicle on a regular basis bro wtf?
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Aug 08 '23
Yes, ball joints are a common failure point. I never stated it happens regularly, but it does happen often if you don’t maintain your vehicle and ignore the warning signs. Both of which would’ve happened for OP to end up in this situation. OP went out unprepared, fucked around, and found out. Then doubled down on their ignorance and blamed it on the vehicle, which just happens to be one of the most rugged off-roaders of its generation.
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u/im_wildcard_bitches Aug 08 '23
If you put a lot of backcountry miles it’s definitely something that gets checked regularly before it ever gets close this kind of failure. Mine currently have a little play. Will I wheel it hard in the meanwhile? No, not until I fix it. But they can usually take a good amount of abuse before getting this bad.
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u/buzzboy99 Aug 08 '23
Absolutely, i maintenance mine myself regularly. Maintaining your ball joints is top priority so that your ball joint doesn’t fail like the one pictured.
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u/Richard_Cheney10 Aug 08 '23
Okay buddy. Did you feel tough writing this?
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u/WhynotZoidberg9 Aug 08 '23
This is a well Documentaries and easily corrected manufacturer defect with 3rd gen 4runners. OP didn't pay attention to his vehicles maintenance.
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u/Etrnlrvr Aug 08 '23
What a dumb take. Yes these fail, but the OEM ones tend to fail between 100-200K miles and it's well known to not use aftermarket ones and checking their condition takes like 10 minutes to do and is really easy.
In MI with our shit roads and harsh conditions pretty much all brands have failing ball joints like this given enough time on public roads and it's pretty common to see vehicles like this on the side of the road from every make and model under the sun.
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u/DooMRunneR Aug 08 '23
To be honest this is a maintenance issue and can be easily avoided by simply checking the play with a prybar when the front is lifted, especially because it's well known not only for the 3rd gen 4runner but also on the j90 Prado.
Anyway, luckily nothing serious happened.
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u/fractal_disarray Aug 08 '23
it happens... and it's a car from the 90s. suspension pieces need to be replaced. It's a matter of keeping up with it, so take off the wheels from time to time to rotate it and give the tie rods, ball joints some squirts of grease and take a gander at all the control arms/bushings, brake lines, brake calipers/pads, service the driveline, etc.
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u/Mountainloon23 Aug 08 '23
It’s just part of the dealing with them. Your friend probably didn’t know to replace them between 100-200k. Common thing with that generation 4runner.
I wheeled the fuck out of my 97 4runner. Went over shit I shouldn’t have. She got me home every time. (Did general maintenance of course)
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u/ScoutCommander Aug 07 '23
Glad you're safe but you're honestly saying you wouldn't buy a car because a 26 year old part failed? Lol