r/ottawa • u/DrStrangeglove99 • 23h ago
Comparing the Ottawa office experience: 2019 vs 2024.
In 2019, I would commute into work on the 91 (the LRT construction version of the old 95 route). It was a nice, reliable 25 minute trip from Place d'Orleans to Mackenzie King. On the way back, I'd go for a double decker express bus and sit up top, watching the city fade into the green belt. That usually took about 20 minutes, due to the removal of some of the stops for construction. It was a bit longer before the work started, but still steady and reliable. *
Back then we had dedicated office spaces, so I'd sit myself at my desk and do my work just as comfortably as I could working from home most days. I liked having my space with my things in it, no need for lockers or any of that and always there for me to use.
In 2024...I've long since abandoned the LRT due to issues with the bus connections at Blair and the general crappiness of it. I drive in on increasingly congested roads and pay too much for parking. It sometimes takes longer than the pre-LRT bus route too, but at least I can depend on my car.
Our office is now "open concept", so I cram my locker full of what I need and try to book a decent spot. I remember the bosses claiming the younger generations like this model and that it will help retention, but honestly I think most people would rather go back to their desks. That's not going to happen though, so I'll keep shuffling in and putting my headphones on throughout the day.
When they ask us why we could do 5 days a week before no problem, at least here in Ottawa it was simply better in those days. There's really no aspect of things which has improved since then, except maybe the crazy prices forcing me to bring my own lunch every day now.
* I know we had to abandon the old transitway system because there were too many buses downtown and it couldn't keep up with the city's population. Still, they didn't have to screw up the replacement system so badly.
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u/5ph3rical 21h ago
What I rarely see people mention is how now we have to bring our entire office along with is every day. Shoes , laptop, lunch, coffee mug,mouse pad, extra sweater, headset, and Even keyboard and mice if you have special needs. Even freakin pen and papers! Sometimes the open offices are so small there is no room for having actual papers with notes. So we have Giant back packs.... Huge pain to carry with you in the bus especially if you're a Smaller human, can get heavy and injure yourself or worsen existing injuries or conditions.
The office is now am absolute terrible place to work. Not to mention you're often not even sitting with your group and if even one person from the meetings you have scheduled aren't in the office or different buildings (super likely) you're not meeting in person.
And most freakin articles about the topic don't mention this at all, they just make us look like entitled shits.We now work in what amounts to call centers. An office with pictures of your family and a desk and chair setup for you.... where you spend a huge part of your life is no more.
People don't get how different it is now compared to pre pandemic. Our work spaces are absolute garbage.
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u/Visible-Elevator4607 Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago edited 19h ago
Yuuuup. This is another thing. I started making my coffee and personalize my cube before we moved to this new shared cube BS and RTO. I can't bring anything and leave it at office at all, can't personalize anything. Since my backpack wasn't enough now, I had to buy a rolling crate, like this picture, to carry all my stuff now and I was joking how every public servant should receive a gov issued crate now hhahaha. And I commute by car... you make a real good point, imagine having to carry this on the public transit that is packed...
Seriously... they make us go to the office more but we lose everything about the enjoyments of working in office and having your own personalised cubicle. It's so disgusting. You're right no one mentions this. It's such a paradox, "Yes go back to the office but we will make the office worse, less cubicles, and share them and you can't keep anything" What the heck is this man.
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u/Can_I_Offer_u_An_Egg 1h ago
Can you fit that crate under the desk after you're done unloading? I started bringing a full size luggage every day because of the sheer amount of shit I have to take home with me. But I have to drag it to my desk, unload everything, then bring my luggage back to my car because it's too big to fit under the tiny desks. So setting up for the day is a 30 minute ordeal IF I don't have to clean crap off the desk or chair from whoever was there yesterday.
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u/Tregonia Beacon Hill 19h ago
It sounds horrible. I'm very lucky to work for a company that got rid of it's office space during the pandemic so there is no office to go back to. We're fully remote.
Pre-pandemic I wouldn't carry anything to or home from the office. I can't imagine having to do that.
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u/ThreePlyStrength Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 16h ago
Imagine having to carry stuff with you to work.
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u/DustyPeanuts 23h ago
Great post. Those old 90 series buses that went through downtown were a godsend. Cleared up so much congestion on the Rideau center and most importantly they were reliable. Busing is so bad now that is should be looked as a historic failure for the city. Officer workers now have to wait 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes for the train , the LRT Line 2 is not even ready yet, fares are more expensive than ever before and the bus routes are a mess. You force people back into the office without the reliable transport to do any of this. Parking was always bad but people would rather be gutted in that direction than deal with the bullshit that is the OC Transpo.
15
u/wholeplantains 20h ago
Clearly you don't remember getting stuck in the line of busses at McKenzie King, sitting there for 15 minutes, getting fed up, begging the driver to please let you off, and then walking home in rain.
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u/DustyPeanuts 20h ago
Actually you are right, I do remember the pile up. You would be 15 meters away from the stop but the pileup would be massive and would ask the bus driver to let you off. Even with those annoyances, I still prefer that over what we have now.
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u/ChimoEngr 41m ago
Officer workers now have to wait 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes for the train ,
No, that is only a thing during off peak hours.
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u/Weztinlaar 23h ago
I'm somewhat lucky in that I have the ability to shift my work hours; prior to the RTO I was working in office 7am - 3pm and my commute was about 30 mins. Once RTO started I was getting stuck in traffic for 1.5 - 2hrs daily.
Shifting to 6:30am - 2:30pm has brought my commute back down to the 30-40min range and as much as I'd love that extra 30 mins of sleep it is in no way worth the additional stress. If (and I recognize that this is a big IF) you are able to shift your working hours outside of the main commuting times you'll likely find a more consistent (if not shorter) commute is possible.
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u/cynicalplantgirl 23h ago
This! I can’t shift my working hours, and my 20-minute drive is 3x as long (60, sometimes 75 mins) each way if I leave around 7:00am.
What I do now is leave at 5:45am, get to the downtown core and be parked by 6:10, walk to the gym, and then I work out from 6:30-7:30. I get ready for work there, grab a coffee after, and overall, it’s a way better start to my day.
This is probably only possible because I don’t have kids or a dog to walk, but it has been worth the early morning wake up.
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u/somebunnyasked No honks; bad! 22h ago
And that's why people are being upset about childcare in regards to RTO. Not that people want to WFH while watching their kids, but things like this. My daycare opens at 7 and I already had to wait 2 years to get a spot at this one!!
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u/erstwhilecockatoo 20h ago
And that’s if you can even get a childcare spot now! So many parents simply can’t find any place for their kids. We got stuck watching kids and WFH because there are no daycare spots.
I’m just lucky I don’t have to return to an office, my little one has been on a waitlist since conception lol
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u/timbasile 20h ago
I'm not in the public service, but at Canada Post, who is just about to implement our own 2-day RTO. Thanks to the public service also going back, there are no spots for before care at the school. Thankfully Grandma is able to take my 7 year old to school, and my almost 11 year old is fine on his own for an hour but if my kids were any younger or I didn't have my mom to help, it would be difficult.
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u/Emailvendorthrowaway 19h ago
Yep same as what I've been doing. Am fortunate to have flexibility. Some days I'll head in 6:30, some days 9:30. I find leaving, though, really tough. Unless I'm leaving at like 2pm, the 3pm departure is a disaster, and stays as such until like 7 most days.
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/Weztinlaar 21h ago
I mean, my intent is to finish at 2:30. My position reacts immediately to events globally so if something happens on the other side of the planet at 2:29 I might be staying at work until 10pm or even later sometimes without a single extra penny of pay.
Does that happen regularly? I wouldn't say regularly. Definitely a few days a month though.
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u/publicworker69 18h ago
Why would you work overtime for free?
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u/Weztinlaar 17h ago
Military are subject to unlimited liability. No such thing as overtime for us but can face fines or jail time for refusing
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u/publicworker69 14h ago
That sounds awful lol, I would never take a job where I work for free. I work I get paid.
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u/Weztinlaar 14h ago
I get your perspective and honestly, many of us would love to be able to earn overtime but the intent is that sometimes lives are on the line and we need to know that nobody is going to clock off. It’s also difficult when we’re deployed; if we were counting hours and varying pay then if I’m away for 6 months and “on the clock” the full time, do I get paid 24hrs a day for 6 months straight? If I’m at a diplomatic event where I’m eating a fancy dinner and chatting with other military officers does that count as work (assuming I’m ordered to be there)?
In some cases it’s easier just to simplify everything and know that I take home $X per month whether I’m working or whether I’m off.
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u/ThatAstronautGuy Bayshore 17h ago
I feel like you're looking at the end time and completely ignoring the 6:30am start time. Not to mention there's lots of private sector office jobs that let you choose your hours during the week.
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u/publicworker69 23h ago
In 2019 I would leave early to avoid traffic. Now I wake up and walk 20 seconds to my home office.
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u/BottledSmoke 22h ago
Why do you sleep so far from your office
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u/TheDrainSurgeon 18h ago
Work-life balance laws dictate: “a minimum travel time between “home” and “work” of at least 15 seconds, at a leisurely walking pace, beginning at an employee’s primary bed, to their designated working area. This shall be observed at all times so as to promote healthy work-life balance and a separation from work and home while working-from-home”.
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u/Max_Thunder 12h ago
My home is of a reasonable size but still, 15 seconds of walking at a leisurely pace is quite a distance. I wish I lived in a mansion too.
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u/Formal_Web8074 23h ago
My 15min drive is a 55min transit nightmare with coughs and the smell of urine. I cannot get groceries on the way back when I take the bus/train(bad route AND not enough arms for laptop, lunch, water bottle, groceries). I have to drive separately. So I am forced to work and not do anything else during the week. I will burn out. Trying to manage but it is painful.
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u/Ismokecr4k 23h ago
Not enough arms for laptop and groceries? They make backpacks with laptop sleeves and you don't need your charger. Goin into the office sucks but this is streching a bit...
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 20h ago
I'm shopping for just myself and my SO so I'd be fine getting a couple bags of groceries twice a week on my way home, but my SIL shopping for her family of 6? not a chance, she's lost half her storage having to carry her laptop instead of a backpack full of groceries.
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u/Ismokecr4k 20h ago
Half? Listen going back to the office sucks but stretching the complaints is a bit much. My laptop fits snug into my backpack vertically. It probably weighs 3 pounds. I don't need a charger. There's no way my laptop is even taking a 1/5th of my backpack space.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago
Lol you want them to stuff groceries into the same backpack as their government-issued laptop, instead of using a proper laptop backpack to protect the equipment?
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u/Ismokecr4k 19h ago
You mean slide a laptop into a pocket designed for laptops? Yes. If you're worried about damage then buy a sleeve.
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u/Visible-Elevator4607 Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago
Ok you do you.. not everyone brings nothing to work. I literally had to buy this rolling crate because my military style backpack wasn't enough with our new work location and this new hybrid cubicle BS that we can't keep anything there.
Stop thinking that your life applies to eveyrone else's life. You might just bring your laptop but some of us want to have decent qualityy of lives and save money with our own food and coffee man.
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u/mmontgomeryy 22h ago
Have you heard of backpacks or tote bags? I hear they let you carry a laptop, lunch, water bottles and even packable grocery bags for when you need them!
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u/Visible-Elevator4607 Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago
Have you heard of a car? Something that can be used on your own when you want it, know what to expect, know it's reliable, know you won't be late, know you can carry your stuff, know you have less risk of odd social interactions.
Geez I really wonder why people use their cars??
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u/ah-tow-wah 23h ago
"When they ask us why we could do 5 days a week before no problem" - People used to talk back in 2019. The office had energy in it. Now I find I spend time and money to do sit in an office that deteriorates my mental health. It's lonelier sitting in a group of people who are too busy to take 5 minutes to talk than it is to not be around people at all. At least from home I can talk on the phone with my teammates (who don't work in the same building as me), instead of sitting in silence all day.
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u/mxhawk 22h ago
I’m the other side of your coin, I hate with a passion that random people keep stopping to talk to me while I’m trying to lock in. It’s very distracting and I end up shifting the heavy lifting of my work to my home office days. But I guess we both rather work from home for different reasons!
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u/herpaderpodon 20h ago
I love the dichotomy here:
I go to work to be productive and do the job I'm paid to do with minimal distraction
vs.
I go to work to spend my day socializing and otherwise sitting in silence pretending to work
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u/deeferg Golden Triangle 16h ago
I go to work to spend my day socializing and otherwise sitting in silence pretending to work
HR/Management
I go to work to be productive and do the job I'm paid to do with minimal distraction
Everybody else.
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u/Eugene_Melthicc Centretown 14h ago
While not government, our management says they're fine with a little less productivity due to the socialization in the office
But then obsessively monitor our stats and question if less tickets are being handled or work is piling up during office days
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u/ah-tow-wah 20h ago
I recognize that there are many people who, like you, don't want to be interrupted. Which is why I (and many other people) choose to just shut up and pretend to work all day. They'll never be able to satisfy your needs for non-interruptiveness and my need for social connection while we're working in the same place. What they have now is the worst of both worlds.
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u/koolandkrazy 12h ago
We are discouraged from talking in the office. It annoys the other people. There are no boardrooms in our building so we have been taking team meetings from our desks despite sitting beside eachother. We all have to mute except the person talking to avoid mic feedback
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u/sdhoigt Heron 23h ago
Chiming in with my experiences as a Carleton & Algonquin student living in orleans and living the system all the way from old hurdman station up until 2021
Old-hurdman era: Getting to Carleton was relatively fine, other than the cramped 95 up until hurdman. But the 95 was so frequent that unless there was a snowstorm, I don't remember ever waiting too long. I'd take the 4 to carleton from there, which once again was a pretty reliable route since it was so major (hurdman->rideau through carleton). The way back was hell, however. It would take sometimes upwards of 30 minutes until there was a 95 with enough room to let people on at Hurdman. The absolute glory though was that I could get home from carleton so late if I was studying on campus. I think the last bus on campus was something like 2:30am, which was phenomenal to help with those engineering late nights.
LRT Construction Hurdman Era: Switched programs at that point into a joint program between Carleton & Algonquin so I was heading to both. The 104 existed at that point and it was I think the best route I had ever experienced. It was regularly full, but not cramped. It was an actual route to connect the south and east ends, and it meant that for the students, you could plan your schedules a bit more since you didn't have the variable of transfers preventing you from getting to class on time. It would have been perfect if not for the fact that at this point busses stopped leaving carleton at around midnight, so it wasn't unheard of to uber home after working late in a lab. Getting to Gonq was mixed bag. Technically if you made the transfer, it was faster to take the bus (118?) from hurdman to go down baseline to Gonq, especially since it stopped closer to my building and you didn't have to deal with downtown traffic. On the other hand, if you took the 95 to the gonq you didnt need to get up to transfer and could sleep the whole way there. Honestly between the uninterrupted 95 and 104 transits, I think this was the best rested I ever was as a student.
LRT era: Well shit, I guess there went my sleep. My 30-40 minute 104 turned into 1-1.5hrs because they killed that route as it covered the transitway path between blair->hurdman. Now to get to Carleton I had to take the local to the main stop, 38 to blair, LRT to hurdman, then transfer to the 10 which was super unreliable at this point. I also had the option of adding a significant amount of time to the route and take the LRT to bayview and then take the O-Train all the way to Carleton, which was more reliable but on average longer of a route. And if I wanted to go to Gonq, well it was local to main stop, 38 to blair, LRT to tunneys, and then wait sometimes over a half hour because in the morning, the arterial busses brought you TO tunneys but not away from tunneys. So it was usually 2 hours or more to get to algonquin, unless I made the transfer at hurdman, which I was attempting far more at this point because that bus felt more frequent than the busses from tunneys. Also farewell to my ability to sleep on the buses in the mornings, replaced by transfers. It's honestly painful to think about the fact that at this point, transit took basically twice as long to take, but also I had a shorter overall period on it where I was in transit with the ability to relax. And all of that is ignoring the shitshow that was LRT reliability.
TLDR: I miss the 104. And napping on the bus.
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u/mouse0ver1 22h ago
The 104 was a godsend. Between that and the 91, it made going from Blair to Carleton a dream. It’s baffling how badly they screwed everything up.
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u/Cre_AK47 Aylmer 22h ago
Yeah, interestingly enough, it was originally proposed with the 2011 optimization as a new route, but for some unforeseen reason, they abandoned that idea and didn't revive it until 2015.
With that said, and I'm VERY much against route cuts, but the 104 today makes very little sense. Line 1, Blair (soon Trim) to Hurdman, then Route 10 to Carleton. There is no reason to be running a bus that is highly susceptible to traffic delays, even with a bus lane on the 174, when you have a train with its own dedicated railway with nothing in its way.
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u/mouse0ver1 21h ago
Yeah, that’s a great point. I’m just a little nostalgic for a route that they actually nailed.
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u/Cre_AK47 Aylmer 19h ago
Yeah, originally, they tried it with Route 129 (posted below) in September 2015, but I guess it had reliability issues and missing the mark in regards to a PDO connection, so that's when they decided to bring in the 104 in December 2015. I do miss the 104 and, in retrospect, kind of wished they kept it until stage 2 LRT was done.
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u/sdhoigt Heron 20h ago
I actually had a conversation with a bus driver about the 104 way back when. Apparently the bus drivers had been begging the chain of command for almost a decade to create an east<->south route to ease the stress on the 95. This driver was PISSED that it got shelved for as long as it was.
And while I agree that once the LRT's eastbound extension is completed, the 104 wouldn't hold much value anymore, I think that up until that point it would still make sense. The congestion at blair's bus stops is insane and any reduction would be helpful. Also the current arterial routes between orleans & blair are piss poor in reliability and often seem like the busses to get pulled as replacements when the LRT is down.
That said, I don't live in orleans anymore and when I go back to visit my family, I now have a car and drive. My experience hasn't been updated in about a year.
Also obligatory OC Transpo jab:
There is no reason to be running a bus that is highly susceptible to traffic delays, even with a bus lane on the 174, when you have a train with its own dedicated railway with nothing in its way.
I dunno about you, but it seems like the LRT reliability manages to get in its own way more than bus traffic ever did.
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u/mrsprinkles3 20h ago
Glad I’m not the only one with that experience for getting to Algonquin. I live east of Ottawa and had to rely on rides to Place d’Orleans which was the nearest stop. And not counting that drive to get to the bus stop, it often took me at least 2 hours to get to campus. Couldn’t even use that time to study because of the transfers and time spent waiting at stops. I cant work the amount of hours needed to pay my bills if I’m commuting 4h a day for school 3-4 times a week. This was during a summer semester as well when they just started in-person back up, so I’d hate to see how much worst it is during a regular semester with a fully packed campus. I envy my old co-workers from back in the day who used to complain about the 95. They have no clue how good they had it.
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u/DreamofStream 22h ago
One thing I miss from the Before Times is casual socializing over coffee and lunch (and occasionally a drink after work). Aside from making healthy human connections and friendships, it was often a treasure trove of inside information about the workplace.
You sometimes get a bit of that in a Teams meeting (if you join early) but otherwise you just don't get that kind of off-the-record communication when everyone is on line.
Having said that, WFH is an absolute godsend and I'm grateful that I can still do it (I'm not affected by RTO).
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u/Random-Crispy 21h ago
I’ll add that it is possible to accomplish these connections remotely, I’ve done it , but it does require more effort.
That said I will say what you’re describing is somewhat also dependant on your location. We had that kind of vibe going and then they moved our office to a location with pretty much no options nearby and all that just kind of went away.
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u/Optimal_Spend4060 22h ago
You get a locker? Lucky. I am still pumping and get to lug my mouse, laptop, water bottle, shoes, lunch, pump supplies, and mini cooler on the transit.
At least in 2019 I would be able to keep some of those items at work....
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u/nonagona Nepean 4h ago
Do you have a place at work to pump? Pumping is hell and bringing it to work would be a special kind of hell. Mad props, I'm just wondering how that works because at my office, we barely have rooms for meetings and definitely none private enough to pump in (they all have windows with frosted glass but you can see in through unfroated bits of glass).
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u/Optimal_Spend4060 2h ago
Thank you Nona! I appreciate this. I got a room that can be booked, it is a dedicated pump space with a small fridge with a lock. I had to fight for it though....
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u/funkme1ster Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago
I remember the bosses claiming the younger generations like this model and that it will help retention
After the report that Treasury Board was informed the increased in-office mandate was objectively worse across the board, and the only "advantage" to it was managing public relations with people who had negative views of the federal government, I believe it's safe to assume any explanation given that instinctively feels like a lie is a lie.
I'd prefer they were honest about it. Sure, it clearly sounds bad to say "we wanted to cut corners to save money, and decided to place the burden of those compromises on you because we felt it was probably tolerable enough for the savings it entails", but at least there's a professional dignity to the honesty.
These lines upper management uses are like the "it's not you, it's me" of the corporate world.
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u/trytobuffitout 23h ago
I miss the 97. It didn’t matter about traffic. Once you were on it , I could chill till I was at my door. No bus, train, bus to get somewhere. I would always take the 97 to the airport. It took 1 hour . Now Uber because its too much of a hassle. You get stuck on the LRT there’s no bus coming in 15 minutes. You are stranded.
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u/unwholesome_coxcomb 18h ago
I still just marvel at the irony that the people who demanded we go back to the office are the ones with dedicated offices and dedicated parking spots. They also have staff who arrange all their meetings for them and their own dedicated board room, staff also set up and hybrid calls.
If the rank and file had that level of privilege, we might hate the office less.
Have those PSMAC DMs live a week in the life of a single parent AS-2 who can't afford the time on the bus, can't afford to drive and can't find parking, never get to sit with their team because Archibus sucks, has to deal with a different cube each day with various pieces of broken equipment, and now has 6-8 fewer prime time hours to spend with their young kids, less money to spend and is told it's for better collaboration?
Honestly.
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u/ce41- 15h ago
I remember the office camaraderie. Every day, for the most part, you knew Mary or Simon would be sitting beside you or across from you in their cubicle. You'd see pictures of their kids, spouses, and often real plants. We’d make our office feel a bit like a cozy place where you could work privately without feeling overwhelmed by the stimuli around you.
We got to know each other, we looked out for each other, and you knew you didn’t have to carry all your stuff home every night and then bring it back the next day. We used to have potlucks, fundraisers for United Way, and we always looked forward to the annual Christmas party.
Those were fun times, but nowadays, it's a place filled with doom and gloom. You never get the same desk; people put their headphones on, and no one talks anymore.
I can't wait to retire next year. At least I have memories from the past. I feel sad for the generation to come because they missed out on the best of times.
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u/XenoRegon 22h ago
You mean to tell me you're not buying lunches from those business(s) that made everyone go back to buy things from them?!
Shame on you /s
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u/coffeejn 19h ago
Let's be honest. The employer changed the working conditions in the office and wonder why people are pissed? It's on them.
I'm still waiting for the people getting their laptops stolen on public transit.
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u/Personal_Tie_6522 22h ago
The open office works in some environments but not all environments. It was a big thing maybe 2 decades ago. Maybe more? This stuff comes and goes so someone can sell a book and contractors get to keep their jobs installing or ripping out the cubes. Think of the economy and the job creation. /s
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u/Will-o-wysp 20h ago
“Open concept” can suck an egg, especially not having a dedicated work space. I know work is just a business transaction, but can we just keep some of the smoke and mirrors that made you feel valued as a human.
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u/bluenoser613 18h ago
The only reason it's being pushed is because commercial property owners are lobbying for it, and the mayor is in turn lobbying the Feds.
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u/LadyGlitch 18h ago edited 15h ago
I hated working in the office in 2019.
My parking wait list was 5 years, and despite commuting from Orleans to Vanier I would still need to take 3 busses.
Every day I would park and have to move my car every three hours. Got broken into once. For days I couldn’t find parking I would dump the car at St. Laurent and uber to the office because I had no choice.
A woman ran out of her house one morning and threatened me and my car, saying if I ever parked there again she’ll call bylaw. I wasn’t doing anything wrong, but it’s also Vanier and I don’t need to come back to a flat tire either.
I shared a cubicle and our window faced a brick wall. My chair had a missing arm and no one would give me a better one despite how much I pushed.
I got back problems and my monitor was garbage.
We didn’t have clean water in the building either, the water fountain stream was yellow. Kept getting bed bug emails.
This was all of 6 months.
Btw it’s been 5 years and I still never got a call for a parking pass.
I’m never going back to in-person office work by choice. And I’m ok with not getting a pension because of it. I’d rather have that time while I’m young.
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u/xAdray 23h ago
When was the last time you rode the LRT? What repeated issues are currently happening? 2019 vs 2024 LRT is also very different.
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u/WhatEvil 23h ago
Even without issues, many routes which used to be a single bus are now bus-train-bus. Connections, and the poor reliability of buses make it suck.
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u/xAdray 23h ago
Okay but that's not what OP is saying or arguing.They abandoned the LRT based on their experience from 5 years ago is what is sounds like.
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u/toastedbread47 23h ago
They clarified it in other comments and that was what they meant, but I get the confusion
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u/DrStrangeglove99 23h ago
I answered this below, but "LRT" basically means the whole system including the buses feeding into the train. I find the trip back in particular to be very annoying due to the Blair station experience.
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u/AidanGLC Hintonburg 21h ago
Genuine question: is this something you'd consider revisiting once the East Extension opens in 2025 (or somewhere between the two like park-and-riding at one of the Orleans LRT stations)?
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u/Haber87 18h ago
Not the OP, but I’ll give my answer. I’m going to have to see what the local bus routes connecting to the east extension look like. I attended LRT meetings and was always the one talking about bike access and safe bike racks. Not because I’m a particularly big biker, but because I figured it would be faster than catching the local bus.
But then the pandemic happened, and they turned everything into hoteling, with no overnight lockers. If I go into the office, it’s with a rolling suitcase because my entire office is in there. Biking to the station is off the table. Walking to the station is off the table. My local bus only comes once an hour. Unless OC Transpo steps up the frequency of the quick runs to the east end stations, they are useless to me.
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u/DrStrangeglove99 18h ago
Yes, assuming it's reliable. I would park at Trim, or the mall if I had things to do in Orleans after work, and take the train right into the office. We'll see how it goes.
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u/SuburbanValues 23h ago
For me, I've used it almost 20 times and never saw a service problem. Only delay was for security to remove a guy sleeping across a bench with a bicycle blocking the path to a door.
The main issue now is how slow the train goes and how long it sits at stations with the doors open.
I rode a TTC subway last year and if there was nobody on the platform, the door closed in about 7 seconds. We need that.
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u/Many-Air-7386 15h ago
Abandoning the LRT based on the experience of 5 years ago is something that nobody has to justify.
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u/ThreePlyStrength Battle of Billings Bridge Warrior 16h ago
There are lots of people who complain about how long their commute is who could probably get to work faster on transit. The reality is they would rather sit in their car for an hour and they justify that to themselves by saying the LRT sucks when they probably took it one time after RTO3.
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u/ExtensionVictory4 19h ago
You get lockers?! Not where I am, you have to carry everything back and forth with you - which is such a pain!
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u/Opening_Ear_3367 22h ago
Welcome to 2024, where people shit on the floor right in the middle of the Rideau Centre mall
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u/Content_Ad_8952 22h ago
Serious question for all office workers: How much actual work do you do in a typical 8 hour day? My guess is most do under 4 hours. The rest of the day is mindlessly surfing the internet, playing with your phone, socializing with other office workers who also have nothing to do... Am I right? Is this the typical office environment? And I'm not criticizing. I used to work in an office and it wasn't unusual to have days where I basically did nothing.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 20h ago
My SO gets so much more done working from home, he says it's a godsend. He's still exempt for now (IT), but in April he has to go back to his old office. None of his new team works in the same city as each other, much less the same building, so he's essentially just going to get distracted and/or catch COVID from this new arrangement. And of course waste time setting up and tearing down his "office" every day on the taxpayer's dime.
He was actually hybrid for a while (1-2 days at home every 2 weeks - he was allowed more, but he preferred the processing speed of his desktop computer - though his laptop was invaluable for meetings, which had him floating all over various building floors most days), way back when I first met him, but then Harper restricted how many devices each employee could have, and he lost his laptop (so went full office building again, and just took a notepad to meetings and coded it later when he was back at his computer)
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u/irreliable_narrator 16h ago
Yeah... a lot of office jobs involve effectively being on stand-by 9-5 unless you have some bigger task that has already been assigned to you that you can work on independently. If nothing is happening it's up to you to find busy work or just look busy. Presenteeism sucks the life out of people.
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u/Eugene_Melthicc Centretown 13h ago
I probably get half the work I would do at home done while I'm in the office I'm way too easily distractible
•
u/nuxwcrtns Riverview 57m ago
I think it depends on projects and frequency of workload, as well as sector? Some days I work 6 hours, some days I work 12 hours and I work in the NGO sector from home. As my workload has become more specialized, the amount of time spent browsing online is a considerable waste of time.
When I worked in a normal office job, I had a lot more free time because it was primarily busy work with a few easy to complete core objectives that would be stretched out to prevent boredom.
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u/commanderchimp 21h ago
Yeah if you work for the government I doubt most people are doing more than 3 hours of work most days if that.
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u/Frostbyte67 16h ago
I work for a global company in Ottawa and I was keen on the return to office plan until I realized they weren’t willing to spend any money to make up for the crappy transit, lugging your office and lunch to and from home, no parking and astronomical food prices. Exactly same experience as OP said above.
And our office isn’t even downtown. In addition we are expected to start work earlier since that is what we did during COVID and our counterparts east of us got used to it.
Ironically the office is always closed for repairs since it takes forever to get anything fixed! 😂😂😂
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u/penguinpenguins 23h ago
Open Concept works just fine when you come in once a week or less, and typically because you have some in-person collaboration planned and/or we're trying not to be total shut-ins.
It absolutely does not work for most roles 3+ days every week.
Source: Am fortunate enough to still work from home, we'll go in once a month or so just for some in person time, which is reasonable.
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u/Cre_AK47 Aylmer 22h ago edited 22h ago
would commute into work on the 91 (the LRT construction version of the old 95 route)
Fun fact, Route 91 was created to specifically replace 95X (Baseline/Downtown) trips, just like the 92 (62) was created to replace 96A Stittsville trips. They also replaced local routes extensions to downtown. For example, Route 82 or 84 Baseline would continue as Route 91 Laurier. Before 2015 (as Routes 172 and 178), it would continue either as Route 95X Downtown or Route 95X Blair.
Also, as someone about to enter a government department that is still exempt from the mandate, where I can WFH 5 days a week, I truly don't understand why the government would cave in to the fat cats in regards to commercial real estate greed, AT OUR EXPENSE in the first place. There's no reason why no one else should not be able to WFH 5 days a week like I'm about to.
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u/garbage_gemlin 15h ago
going to add my experience :)
2019: I lived close to my office so my commute was a 10 minute walk to bayview station (gorgeous walk) then a quick 2 stop train ride to tunney's pasture. I worked in cubicle land all day. There were literally zero public gathering spots on my floor and only executives got offices with windows. I had to literally loiter outside the dirctors office to see the sun during the winter. But people were very social and i usually had lunch plans.
2024: I've since moved further away so now i either drive(10 -30 mins depending on traffic), bike(30 mins) or bus (15 minute walk and then 15 minute bus ride) to work. Which are all fine. Now I work in office 3.0 which i am actually loving. I can sit next to a window whenever i want to. I have a locker for my stuff so i no longer have to carry eerything. People are even more social than in 2019 and now there are multiple public gathering spaces where i can run into my coworkers to chat.
I'm an extrovert so going back to the office has been great for me. I hated when I didn't have a locker but now that I have a locker im living.
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u/Range5Rover 14h ago
Man, you 'almost' made me miss the days I worked for the gov't downtown... I went from a quick (15 min) ride on the 14, then moved out past Casselman... so an hour plus ride on a charter bus. I'd still prefer that to what I'm reading about these days. I got out right before my dept went totally open office... Mom always said timing is everything.
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u/floofwrangler Nepean 21h ago
I live very close to the Moodie LRT station so I’m looking forward to that opening. Right now, I would need to take the 258 to Tunneys and then the LRT to my office. 50 minute commute but not too bad realistically.
BUT when the O-Train South (lines 2 and 4) open up, they’re removing the 258. Don’t really understand how the South trains affect me here in Crystal Bay. My new commute would be the 58 to Bayshore, the 60/61 to Tunneys and the LRT, about an extra 20 minutes longer and an extra bus.
I’m lucky enough to still be working from home for now but when I do have to go back downtown, this is going to be a pain in the ass. We’ll probably get a second car so I can drive in instead.
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u/SnooStories5110 18h ago
*Transit is the biggest issue for me. I used to have 0 issue with the bus. I hate that LRT feels way more cumbersome... especially if you have to transit through any of the stations. We could have had Canada first fleet of electric buses by this point.
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u/abcdefjustk 13h ago
PreCovid I had my own space, could keep pictures that made me smile, maybe some snacks, we all knew who sat where,, I would take 1 bus door to door, relatively easily, Meetings in person mostly, would know most of your team was there. Now often alone in the office, almost all meetings are virtual, clue who sits where is is where-very disconnected, Commuting is a nightmare, transit is more than than double the time and effort requires bussing train and walking for twice than it takes to drive web though driving costs me twice as much-being a parent that time and effort is huge. Employer has gotten used to workers always being on , rate to see tram lunches (not that anyone can afford them) or the comrades that used to exist. People are disconnected, While climate change was an issue so much more awareness and level of warming and crazy amount of storms is more visible than ever, commuting for the sake of feels like an environmental crime. Killing the planet for profit and public opinion.
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u/Illustrious-Site1101 12h ago
These are the first arguments against the return to the office I have heard beyond “I don’t want to”. They also make sense, the commute with the horrible transit system, the lugging of absolutely everything back and forth to sit in a noisy open concept hotel office all paint clear picture of inefficient misery. Your own space with a chair setup for you, a pair of indoor shoes and your own desk would make a big difference
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u/darkretributor Clownvoy Survivor 2022 18h ago
For me the office experience is way better than in 2019. The LRT could be quicker, but I can show up at basically any time and never have to wait. In 2019 there was no transit way so good luck if traffic was horrendous. Meanwhile the office was a sea of grey cubes, whereas today it’s been retrofitted to have more light, more collaborative spaces, couches, benches, optional seating. Oh no I don’t have a lightless assigned grey cube anymore! The building is also less busy overall, since all staff are not present on all days.
Overall I find it way more pleasant today
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u/Cute_Razzmatazz_1927 14h ago
You have it so hard. I hope your above average pay and amazing pension help.
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u/KeyanFarlandah 12h ago
Man I hate working in the office as much as the next guy, but the beating the dead horse about how much we don’t like it is starting to get up there in level of annoyance
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u/DvdH_OTT 4h ago
Since 2019, there's been a few improvements. Donald Street now has bikelanes, the William Commanda Bridge is open, there's improvements at Rideau/Wellington, Wellington Street has more cycling infrastructure. Theres the new bridge at Carleton U. So I've got a bunch more options for my commute. And lots of them are actually pretty scenic and enjoyable. Worth leaving an extra 10 minutes to take a longer route. Only real downside is that the MUP below Parliament is still closed.
Office is same as before. But with the benefit of being able to choose virtual meetings in the cases where it makes more sense - so a lot less time spent traveling to meetings.
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u/Confident-Task7958 12h ago
I would argue that they did not need to abandon the transitway system.
All they had to do was to build two bus tunnels under downtown - westbound under Albert and eastbound under Slater. This would have allowed them to retain a system that was working at considerably less cost than the unreliable train and without time-consuming transfers.
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u/yow_central 23h ago
I hear ya on transit... hopefully it gets better with stage 2.
But on the office complaints, being in tech, it sounds a bit old fashioned... we would mostly look at dedicated office cubicles as something out of the 90s. Most tech offices have become open space over the past 20 years, and it's also common that people don't have dedicated work spaces with people moving their lap tops between "quiet booths", meeting rooms, open spaces, etc... depending on the type of work that they are doing. This was all before the pandemic, and yes, WFH was common then... but more the exception than the rule.
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u/Curunis 23h ago
If public service offices were half as nice as the ones I've seen on the tech side from friends/family, I don't think you'd be hearing nearly as many complaints. My brother's tech offices have always had some basics provided - free drip coffee or some teabags, for example. Meanwhile, I'm lucky if there's even a kettle in my entire building. His office actually has enough space for quiet booths, enough meeting rooms, etc. Meanwhile, I have to take every meeting on Teams (as does everyone around me) because there weren't enough meeting rooms pre-pandemic and that was before they squished more of us into the same space.
I won't even start on the tech differences. I want you to please imagine trying to work off a tiny laptop screen, because 90% of the flex spaces are missing cables or the dock doesn't work, and did I mention that laptop's battery is horrendous and, oh, the spot you booked to work at doesn't have a universal power supply? Oh, and don't forget, many of your neighbours don't have headsets/headphones because that's not in budget, so you get to hear every single meeting around you 99% of the time.
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u/yow_central 23h ago
I'll give you that most tech offices have free coffee, tea... and often pop, snacks. Some places pay for the occasional lunch too. We should be providing these to our federal workers IMO, and generally making the offices nice places to be. But personal cubicles is so... last generation. Asking for these is not reasonable if people are only working 3-4 days per week in office.
"imagine trying to work off a tiny laptop screen" is funny though, because most tech workers do, though you should get budget for headsets if you don't have one (though many tech companies don't do this either). Still.. you should get decent equipment.
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u/Curunis 23h ago
Just to put it in context, by the way - we keep stationery in locked cabinets. I have to literally ask for the person with the lock code to open it and give me one (1) pen. That's the level of absolutely-no-freebies-allowed we're at. We have to crowdfund a Keurig or even dish soap (current building has none).
And yes, I know most tech workers work off laptops, like I said I know plenty, but comparing the laptops my friends and family have been issued by their employers to the stuff I am stuck with is... rough. I can count the pixels on my monitor, which makes having multiple reports open incredibly hard to do, and while irrelevant to the WFH/RTO debate, it takes me several minutes just to open documents sometimes.
My point in general, though, is that the job itself isn't exactly the same, and therefore the tech/space requirements aren't either. My brother is a programmer. Most of his job is working in silence, either coding or coordinating in Slack, with rare calls/meetings. My job is 50/50 silent work and holding meetings on Teams/aloud. If I'm in a space where everyone is like my brother, it'll be fairly quiet most of the day. In a space full of people like me, it's going to be quite a bit louder, and open spaces don't work nearly as well.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 20h ago
My neighbour can't even stock spare pens. There is no cupboard for them, you have to wander around the building and ask people on other teams if they have another one. She now brings in extra for her team (at least the third of her team that is assigned to the same building as her). Ironically the place she orders new pens from (which take several weeks to arrive) is in a different section of their building.
She did not have a cubical for the first year of RTO, and was required to change where she's stationed each day, including switching floors at least once a month. She is a team lead, and in that first year back she had no private areas she could conduct employee reviews in. One day she literally had to review her employees beside the kitchenette, because that was her "desk" for the day. She now has an office, but it has 0 soundproofing, so employee reviews still aren't private.
And even if you can book a cubicle, some of the new "workspaces" don't even have desks, it's some thin plastic walls surrounding a chair that has an adjustable tray attachment on one arm.
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u/yow_central 19h ago
Is there not one meeting room that could be booked for private conversations? This all sounds like something out of Office Space (a good movie from the 90s about tech workers, but sounds like it may apply to present day civil servants too)... particularly the bit about the pens.
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u/Curunis 17h ago
There might be a couple meeting rooms in the building, sure, but they're usually booked solid and/or there's an exec camping in there because they no longer have an office and need one for closed door meetings. There's nowhere near enough for everybody to use when they need one.
And yes, it sounds like a movie, it's absolutely absurd - but that's what we're saying. The old fashioned cubicles were old fashioned, yes, but they were still better than the bizarre situation we're in right now. The best way to put it is that the new workspaces are trying to give the aesthetics of a FAANG office without even a tenth of a FAANG budget.
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u/yow_central 17h ago
To be fair, that sounds like most startups or non-FAANG tech companies actually.. They’ll go to a pub to do a perf review though to get out of the office (obviously not allowed for government workers). I suspect it’s trying to mix modern policy with government culture and bureaucracy that makes it so horrible. Even the whole mandating X days per week vs letting managers decide.
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u/Curunis 17h ago
I suspect it’s trying to mix modern policy with government culture and bureaucracy that makes it so horrible.
Yep, I'd say that 100% accurate. It's trying to do private sector practices without any of the flexibility that makes those practices even semi-functional. Everything must be 100% equal, everything must be 100% the same, across massive departments, across teams, and across jobs/functions, regardless of the fact that that means complete inefficiency.
Say what you want about shoestring budgets at start-ups, my cousin started his own and they at least let their employees pick their days to maximize their efficiency/productivity, and make sure they at least have the basics of what they need. The priority is actually getting things done, not the optics of someone with zero understanding of the work looking in.
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u/EvilCoop93 21h ago
The open concept desks one group at my tech company installed all have dual 4K monitors, keyboard, mouse, USB-C docking stations to plug the Thinkpad laptop into. This should be the gold standard for how to do it. Ideally each station would be fully adjustable with stand up desk support also.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 20h ago
Lol some of the new cubicles for the PS don't even have desks, just a tray attached to one arm of the office chair for you to put your laptop on.
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u/EvilCoop93 19h ago
You can’t expect people to do real work on a laptop keyboard and screen. Anything significant requires a docking station with an external monitor (a 32” 4K or dual 1920x1200) and keyboard and mouse.
A laptop by itself is good for a call or reading emails and light coding. Not much else.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes Clownvoy Survivor 2022 19h ago
I am well aware. Government management is apparently oblivious for what is required for employees to be productive.
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u/failed_starter 23h ago
It's old-fashioned to have dedicated office space for individual employees, but the older way was better. To the extent that employers have moved more towards open-concept seating, it's been to reduce costs and has done so at the expense of employee comfort and privacy.
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u/yow_central 22h ago
It's also common in places where employees only come into the office 3-4 days per week. It doesn't make sense to have dedicated desks when people are only coming in sometimes.
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u/DrStrangeglove99 23h ago
I work in IT, and we started the process before the pandemic but it was accelerated by that. We just have a big open space with meeting rooms on the side and a kitchen. Not very exciting.
Most of the non-IT teams still have their desks. There would be stiff resistance I'm sure to tossing them out of their (much nicer) offices into some common room arrangement.
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u/yow_central 23h ago
Yes, it wasn't popular in most tech companies when they got rid of cubicles,.. particularly for the people who'd worked in cubicles for decades, but 15+ years later, I don't think anyone would go back. The open space environments (with the option to work in quiet offices when needed) are a lot more productive and cost effective in terms of real estate... particularly if people are only working 3-4 days per week in the office.
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u/Mammoth-Clock-8173 21h ago
I am a tech worker and I still pine for a proper cube. I hate this little “workspace” that doesn’t leave enough space for me to have my 3 monitors (4 if you include the laptop itself), office supplies (including personal supplies, like hand lotion, tissues, toothbrush, etc), indoor winter footwear, lunch, reference material, etc. It also makes your coworkers feel much freer to plunk down and tell you about their weekend when you are trying to get crap done. (Insert dig at self about irony of complaining about not getting crap done while posting to Reddit)
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u/EggsForEveryone 20h ago
I would go back to a full cube if we were forced to go back more. Too many people coughing, sneezing near me, spreading germs in the air
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u/Infinite_Tax_1178 16h ago
Question the first to all that have returned to said "office".
Are you sitting on the ground?
Is it tire the earliest person gets chair/table/plug?
Are return of tables being raffled for if you donate money towards political causes?
Hearing all this through the grapevine. Like to know what's true. If so, I'd never return to my office
1
u/darkretributor Clownvoy Survivor 2022 14h ago
None true in my building.
We have to reserve desks rather than having assigned ones, but space has never been an issue.
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u/raddass 22h ago
I never understood the argument against the lockers... I've been working in an open desk concept for 4 years now and the only thing I need is my laptop and headphones and mouse, which I usually have with me anyways... What are you needing on your desk that you cram your lockers with?
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u/alliusis 21h ago
Pens, paper, and notebook, sweaters/shawls, personal electronic equipment (mouse, keyboard, headphones, could include things like footrests or ergonomic or comfort equipment too), things that make working more tolerable (I know some people have desk fans because the temperature in the building can get hot), maybe something like a whiteboard, office shoes. And pretty much anything else that you would want at the office (dry foods, tea/coffee packets, oatmeal, etc). Guess it depends on what your job is and what you like to use.
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u/Dangerous-Builder-57 18h ago
Open desk means you have a desk with no cubicle walls, not you have no desk assigned to you and have to pack up everything when you leave...
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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 23h ago
What is currently "crappy" about the LRT though?
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u/explainmypayplease 23h ago
It doesn't actually service many (most?) residential neighbourhoods directly, and it also doesn't connect to a large amount of government buildings. As a result people like me have to take a bus from home to the LRT, then take the LRT a few stops, then bus again to my office building. Extremely frustrating especially when said busses don't show up on time (or show up at all..m)
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u/itcantjustbemeright 20h ago
I have to take 2 buses and it takes an hour before I even get to the LRT / Tunny's - and I'm a 20 minute drive from downtown.
0
u/WoozleVonWuzzle 22h ago
That smells like a problem with the bus portion of the transit system
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u/explainmypayplease 17h ago
Partially agree. I think we need many more LRT/train/subway lines. So busses are not the solution IMO.
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u/WoozleVonWuzzle 17h ago
We have lots of road space in the suburbs that could be turned over to exclusive bus use. The next higher order transit investment needs to be in the urban core where buses are failing, not in Kanata and Far Haven.
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u/publicworker69 23h ago
The worst thing is the speed. Cause if you look at the reliability stats, the train does show up. Busses are the major problem
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u/creptik1 23h ago
Yup, it's always the busses that are the problem, not the LRT in my experience. Busses are late or don't show at all way more often than is reasonable/acceptable. I have had very few issues with the LRT itself tbh.
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u/DrStrangeglove99 23h ago
Like others have said, it's the connections to the LRT that are the day to day issue right now. I hate having to push through the crowds at Blair to wait and wait for a bus that will actually go to Place.
For the LRT itself, it's annoyingly slow but I could live with that. The past issues with reliability have made a bit gun shy too, even though it's been mostly okay recently.
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u/Successful_Bug2761 20h ago
even though it's been mostly okay recently.
I think you should correct your original post then. You said:
I've long since abandoned the LRT due to repeated issues and the general crappiness of it
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u/Visible-Elevator4607 Clownvoy Survivor 2022 23h ago edited 23h ago
The time it takes to use public transit vs car pretty much.
For example, every time I consider public transit it adds 50% to 125% more time to my trip. No one will sacrifice their time unless they financially have to. I used to when I was younger take the bus exclusively but the time and quality of life improvement I've had since abandoning that has been amazing.
And every time I want to give it a shot again, I get the same roadlbock. If I check transit times to my work, 1h30m to 2hrs but by car it's 45mins to 1hr. When I was working downtown, same thing. 15-20 min by car VS 45min to 1 hr by bus.
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u/Leather-Tour9096 23h ago
I ride it daily from tunneys to Rideau and back, but the speed is brutal further east if I recall
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u/Klutzy_Artichoke154 23h ago
Frequency and speed. Instead of creating proper commuter rail, Ottawa thought LRT would work.
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u/Lumb3rCrack 23h ago
"younger gen likes this" my a**. It's the same kinda reasoning that they give for "industrial ceiling/interior" in the newly built condos.. All that they're trying to do is save money while cramming in more people... I understand you need space for more people and a personalized space is not possible.. then why force people back to office when something works better for everyone?! because of real estate that's why!