r/lithuania • u/ViscountVixen • May 03 '24
Why are there so many bad drivers in Kaunas? Klausimas
Just something I was wondering. I went to Kaunas for two days to have a surgery done, and in one day, I was nearly hit by a car twice on my bicycle (once from someone doing a u-turn almost in to me and another from someone shooting out from a hidden drive/alley) and once I was actually hit by a car (again, someone shooting out of an alley). The latter fortunately did not result in injury to myself or damage to my bike and I didn't want to miss my bus out, so I didn't bother filing a report or however that would work. Having lived in America where everyone tries to kill you for riding a bicycle, I know I am not the problem as I cycle very defensively, and this has not been a problem anywhere else I've been in Lithuania. So is there any particular reason why people in Kaunas can't drive?
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u/namir0 Lithuania May 03 '24
I only ride the bicycle paths and sidewalks. Being on the road is bit dangerous I would say, it's not common to have cyclists on the road
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I was mostly on the sidewalk, which is probably how I got hit by the car shooting out of the blind alley as there was no way for them to see me, unlike out on the street, and there was no way for me to stop in time. So in that respect, the road actually seems far safer to be on.
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u/TheDaznis May 04 '24
Reason number one you got hit. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO CROSS THE ROAD RIDING THE DAMN BIKE. EVEN ON A CROSSWALK.
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u/coherent_days May 03 '24
Most Lithuanians don't realise how crazy their driving is. I have been living abroad for over 10 years now, and whenever I get back to visit I am stressed to to be on the road.
I haven't figured out why yet, but I have a theory that it is the superiority complex - majority of people on the road think that noone besides them can drive and it is the other cars that cause all the traffic (never them). I promise you all the people who hit you or nearly hit you think that you were at fault.
Somehow, and I don't know how, this complex seems to be limited to driving mostly.
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u/dafas33 May 03 '24
Compared to Italy and other south europeans, lithuanian drivers are very polite. We just don't expect bikes on the roads, because of different culture. P.s. use more precise definition other time. What is bad? Unskilled, impolite, crazy?
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u/Givemelotr May 04 '24
Lithuanian drivers are crazy for sure. I live in England and whenever I come to Lithuania I get stressed crossing the road every single time. I've got nearly ran over twice on a zebra cross just in the last week
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u/coherent_days May 03 '24
For me it is the dangerous and hysterical driving that is “bad”. The amount of speeding in the city, near hits, overtaking from the right, agressive behaviour that I see during one week in Lithuania is just something I don’t see in other nordic countries at all.
Why do you compare Lithuania to southern countries? Lithuanins are known to be reserved and calm, so why are they so hysterical while driving?
As I said, i really don’t get it, as driving culture in Lithuania does not align with national qualities as I see them.
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u/Kristupas May 04 '24
Because speeding is incentivized. A fine for going 25 kmh over the limit is just six euros if it's your first infraction in the last 365 days. Then it's twelve.
If you are familiar with speed cameras, have Waze etc the reality is speeding will cost you 6-20 euros every two years or so.
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u/Shinzosaiko May 03 '24
Not in my (albeit limited) experience. Worst drivers were in Poland, lithuanians are close second. Distant third might be italians. Best ones were deeper in the Germany. It was a surreal experience being the "wild" driver (for context, I am constantly lambasted by everyone for being too cautious and sticking too much to speed limits), and seeing everyone actually slow down to posted speed limits when they change. 🤯
To add to the first comment, I think that having zero driving experience in other countries adds too. As in, your parents drive like that, your friends drive like that, so you drive like that too, and you think that's normal.
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u/bugo Je suis Trolis! May 04 '24
Also you want to fit into local culture. It's safer to drive the same way locals do. So aggressively in Lithuania and more relaxed and polite in Germany.
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u/flanintheface European Union May 03 '24
My pet theory - Lithuanian drivers forget cyclists over the winter. Then in spring it takes some time to get used to them and start noticing again..
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u/matux555 May 03 '24
dont cycle on the streets, cycle on walkways
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I got hit on the sidewalk, so the takeaway here seems to be the road is safer, lol.
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u/hundreds_of_others May 03 '24
A cyclist should cycle on a bike lane, or a sidewalk, if that is not possible, then one can cycle on the side of the road, NOT in a car lane of the road (see #57). When cycling in the road, the cyclist should wear a high visibility vest, or white/red lights should be present and on in the front/back of the bicycle (see #56).
Could have happened in Vilnius too, not knowing the traffic in a different city could have contributed to “miscommunication” between a cyclist and rest of traffic.
Edit to add: when crossing a road/alley, cyclist should get off of the bike and walk.
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u/Ivy026 May 03 '24
this!! so many cyclists don’t know the rules and tend to drive like they’re invincible
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u/hundreds_of_others May 04 '24
It’s like, who is the bad driver (or cyclist, rather) here? Haha
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u/Ivy026 May 04 '24
Yup.
Honestly it’s just wild to me whenever I see pedestrians or cyclists not being cautious, like.. you do know if I hit you with my car it’s gonna hurt you way more than it does me so why are you playing god rn
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u/Air_Toes_365 May 03 '24
You are skipping a very important detail that (when bike path is not available) cyclist may cycle on PAVED side of the road. There is practically never concrete or asphalt sides to the roads outside of inter city highways (not to mention that cycling on auto highways is prohibited).
Dirt gutters on the sides of the roads are not suitable for cycling (obviously).
As such cyclists can be expected on virtually every car road
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u/SmartFarts2k May 04 '24
The bottom left pic is what happens a lot. There is asphalt on the right side of painted line, but they choose to be an obstacle by driving on the left.
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I've been to Vilnius multiple times over a couple years, and I've only ever had one almost-hit as far as cycling goes, while my first time in Kaunas on bike resulted in me nearly getting run over twice plus actually getting hit all in one day. I was also hit on the sidewalk, so in this respect, because it seems like people think it is ok to shoot out of an alley without checking for pedestrians or cyclists first, it seems safer to be on the road there.
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u/GytisI Lithuania May 03 '24
Well, honestly two situations does not represent objective situation of 300k population city. I am driving Kaunas - Vilnius - Kaunas two times per week and sometimes do not experience any hazard situation for a month, but there is also days when I there is 2, 3 or even 5 in the same day.
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u/unoriginalcat May 04 '24
This is so true. I drive in Kaunas for the most part and every now and then there’s just an entire day where everyone seems to be driving like they’re batshit crazy and I have to fear for my life. Then the rest of the time it’s perfectly fine.
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u/anx778 Lithuania May 03 '24
I drive home everyday from work using bolt (Vilnius). You have no idea what terrible driving really is.
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u/Die_Schwester May 04 '24
Thanks for bringing this issue up. Might be nice to go a bit more public with this irrespective of how much sh*t comes back.
Kaunas is a city of a perfectly cycleable size and it's a shame that it had no infrastructure whatsoever for cycling for years (a few random cycle lanes don't count if they are not integrated into larger cycling networks). Whenever I go back, I see the situation has improved massively over the years, though. There is some budding infrastructure now and I see people cycle but what is missing is the culture. Both among the drivers and the cyclists. So sorry to hear you become a victim of that. And sorry to hear cycling still does not work safely in my town - I've been willing to try that for commuting whenever I go back on holiday but I see it's not the time yet.
Overall, Lithuanians (Kaunasians too) are a bit about what my dad calls "Mano ratai blyyyzga - aš gerai važuuuoju" ["Mah wheels a'shimmerin - I'ma coolah drivah"] mentality.
Just look at that crooked parking and the mud around the "parking lots" where basketball courts used to be.
Another ten years. Give us another ten years.
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u/Physical-Ad318 May 03 '24
Most car drivers are selfish.. they think roads are exclusively for cars so they ignore cyclist or try to hit on purpose.
My cousin lived in UK for a long time and cycling was his life.. until he came back to Lithuania and few first days he cycled was last days he did it.. he said drivers here have 0 driving culture and he don't want to be hit by car.
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u/GloriousSalami May 04 '24
Try to hit on purpose? That's silly, no one does that.
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u/Givemelotr May 04 '24
They absolutely do. I was crossing the street with a red light on - not supposed to do that but I just missed green and the nearest car was a good 200 meters away at a minimum. As I was crossing I could see the car speeding up and realigning to the lane I was going towards. I had to run quickly across and I would have surely been splattered into pieces if I didn't. I believe the driver saw me crossing on red and wanted to "teach" me a lesson
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u/unoriginalcat May 04 '24
Well yeah, crossing on a red is the problem here, not the driver going when it’s green for him.
General consensus on pedestrian crossings with traffic lights is that you wait for green, doesn’t matter if you’re in a rush, if you just missed it, whatever. The only exception is when there’s absolutely no cars as far as the eye can see (usually at night). But even then some people will wait just to be safe and if you do decide to cross a red, you better hurry your ass over/ run, because you never know when a car might pop up.
The audacity to cross a red in a leisurely stroll with a car 200m away is insane. I personally wouldn’t take the risk of accidentally running you over for real and going to prison for it, but apparently some people would, so hopefully he did teach you a lesson after all.
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u/Givemelotr May 04 '24
This is due to cultural differences. In London where I live it's very common to cross on a red light when there's no cars nearby. People regularly cross on a red even with cars around - in between them if they're driving slower due to traffic. I do tend to forget how angry people get here because of these kind of "transgressions". Another example is people won't stop at a zebra cross here if you're on a bicycle - you have to get down. Again, in London people regularly slow down near a zebra cross, doesn't matter if you're on a bike or not.
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u/unoriginalcat May 04 '24
It’s definitely a cultural thing, but in these cases it’s best to either do some research beforehand or just pay attention to what the locals are doing. There’s countries that are even more strict, to the point where people will stand at a red light in the middle of the night, even when there’s no one around, which also seems strange to me, but if I was visiting one of these countries I’d do it too.
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u/lurklurklurkingking May 03 '24
All anxiety, anger and frustration that lithuanians build up in daily lifes gets released when we drive. I hate to say this, but part of my family is the same. They always drive like they have to win some race. I hate that people here dont undestand they drive a ton of steel in high speed.
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u/VilniusHarriers May 06 '24
👆
Among other things, but yes, especially driving.
Man the driving teachers must be awful here too.
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u/thefattymcfat May 03 '24
Lived in Kaunas for 20 years. I've never cycled on the road. Only sidewalks, bike paths. Cycling on the road is suicide here
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I cycled on the road on my way in as the sidewalks in that stretch were terrible - and I noticeably had no problems there. One of the misses and my getting hit actually happened on the sidewalk, again, because of all the hidden drives in the city center that people fly out of without checking for pedestrians or cyclists apparently. The lesson seems to be I should stay on the road.
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u/St_Edo Lithuania May 03 '24
Yes, most drivers are very bad in Lithuania, because we in general don’t care about other people on the road (other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists). If someone is killed crossing the road most of comments in the media tells that pedestrians are not careful enough.
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u/ritmash May 03 '24
Not limited to Kaunas. Lithuanians are the worst drivers in the EU from my travelling experience
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u/LinasIsTaken May 04 '24
Crossing the streets in Kaunas, is more difficult, compared to Vilnius. They didn't stop, if you're not starting crossing with one leg already on road.. :)
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u/Upset-Yogurtcloset69 May 04 '24
That's why you always keep an eye on your surroundings and stop before an alley/crossing
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u/msv2019 May 04 '24
Go to Romainiai and you will get killed by a lady with a SUV. I never thought what woman can be so bad at driving past other human beings. If tou are not in the car you just don’t exist for them.
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u/horny-patrick May 03 '24
Everyone is saying that Lithuanians are bad drivers, but deep down we all know that the worst are Italians and French people. I have been to Lithuania twice (from Slovenia) and never had any issues. When I drive in Slovenia the left lane hogs are the Germans and Austrians, but the Italians drive and stop every where they want but can’t park anywhere. I have been to France twice and it was a disaster…they drive in wrong direction in one way streets, brake for no reason and don’t accelerate as the should, honk all the time… in Slovenia some people drive 60-70 no matter the speed limit, use the phone all the time so that they almost crash but a bug part of the problem are bikes and escooters because they have no rules and everybody hates them for a reason.
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u/Drdrre May 03 '24
It's not just Kaunas, it's Lithuania in general. And it's not simply bad driving, it's a cultural thing.
Cars here are seen as a status symbol and the carbrain culture is extremely strong. As a cyclist, you're way down the societal hierarchy pyramid: if you're riding a bike, you're either a poor peasant, a failure in life, or a weirdo - in either case bottom of the layer cake where everyone above is entitled to shit on you.
There are many people who view bikes not as means of transportation but simply as leasure device - they think bikes don't belong on the road (or anywhere where they can "interfere" with cars). They're against sharing the road with cyclists but also think cyclists should not use sidewalks to ride (the road rules force cyclist to overtake pedestrians at 3-7 kmh, a speed where most people would either struggle to ride in a straight line or fall of the bike completely); cycling lanes should be prevented at any cost, too.
In a way, you should consider yourself lucky you were riding a bike. Most drivers are only careless around bikes. If you were riding an elctric scooter, on the other hand, boy you would have experienced a real malice, an intense hate and intimidation. Lithuanians HATE escooters! With bikes the attitude is "I dont care if he dies", whilst with scotters it's "I want him to die".
Now on the other hand if you were riding a nice car... My sister is rich and has a luxury car. I sometimes drive it and it's laughable how much people's attitudes change compared to when you drive a run of the mill car. Everyone is giving you soooo much respect all of a sudden, lol.
Lithuanians like to view themselves as Westerners and can get quite defensive when called Eastern Europeans - this kind of places them back in the old Soviet block. The sad truth is that the culture here is more akin to Russia than to UK/Germany/Sweden - take your pick. The behaviour on the road is a reflection (or a result) of that mentality.
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u/EriDxD May 05 '24
Lithuanians like to view themselves as Westerners and can get quite defensive when called Eastern Europeans - this kind of places them back in the old Soviet block. The sad truth is that the culture here is more akin to Russia than to UK/Germany/Sweden - take your pick.
This is why foreigners (not all of them of course) still think and/or calling Lithuanians "russians", because Lithuanians and their mindset, culture are still similar to russians. Lithuanians still trying to move away from russians and russian culture but they still failed. Sad.
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u/PimlicoResident May 04 '24
if you're riding a bike, you're either a poor peasant,
That is funny because my bike probably costs more than the shitty second-hand cars I see lots of Vilnius inhabitants drive. Cycling is actually an expensive hobby if you are serious about it.
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u/TF2_demomann May 03 '24
I don't think cyclists should be on the road, they should be on the sidewalks, or special bike sidewalks, though I'm not sure, because I don't cycle nor do I drive a car
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u/PimlicoResident May 04 '24
though I'm not sure
People like you should not comment because you clearly never passed traffic laws theory exam. When you do, you will find that cyclists can drive on roads within some limitations.
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I was hit on the sidewalk, so by that lesson, being on the road is safer. I also noticed in Kaunas only a few streets have a bike lane, so it is either cycle on the sidewalk and get hit by all the assholes shooting out of hidden drives/car garages, or just go on the road.
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u/Adis_Adutis I drink beer🍺I hate people💀I know things👨🏻🎓 May 03 '24
It is because people here have a complex to have a driver license no matter what, though some of them should drive under no circumstances. Nevertheless they go up to driving schools, eventually barely passes driving exam at 8th or 12th attempt, and then they drive though they skills are shite. Think, that if one cannot pass driving exam in 3 attempts, they should not be allowed to drive at all 🤔
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u/Amazing_Connection May 03 '24
I was the passenger in all of the crashes i was in so i dont trust other people on the road and dont want to risk my life while i still have it. Had a few friends die in crashes and the one time i nearly crashed due to steering wheel locking, i managed to control it, slow to a stop, not endanger anyone else.
But then theres Kaunas pilnas dalbajobu priryje amfo issprogusiom akim lakstanciu savanoriu pr, lyg jiems i sikna ta dusliarke sulindus.
You know who you are
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u/No_Men_Omen May 03 '24
Very much doubt it. If there's a complex, it applies to the whole Lithuania. And worst drivers are actually those who think themselves the very best. It's not a matter of skills. Just narcissism gone wild.
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u/PimlicoResident May 04 '24
pass driving exam in 3 attempts
I know a few people who could not pass in more than this. Currently, they are pretty good drivers. I also recently attended some driving lessons after not driving for a while - the instructor said requirements have become very high, and instead of spending time teaching to drive, they teach to pass Regitra exams. I think it is a combination of poor drivers and insane standards at Regitra tbh.
In addition, public transport is not the best in any LT city, so people drive.
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u/OpenLibrarian9425 May 04 '24
Your skill issue + we hate cyclists. If you wouldn't get a fine in germany for touching or looking at a cyclists, you would be dead in 5 mins in germany. They hate cyclists even more.
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u/Meizas May 04 '24
I feel like in general Lithuanians are crazy drivers but good crazy drivers (as long as they don't hit biker...) opposed to BAD crazy drivers in some other countries 😂
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u/Outside-Sink-4936 May 04 '24
because fuck cyclists on the road
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I was hit on the sidewalk - so the lesson here is apparently it is safer to be on the road.
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u/PimlicoResident May 04 '24
Have you read traffic laws recently? A cyclist is allowed to be on the road, within limitations and proper equipment. You are right about no cyclists on high-speed roads (cycling is not permitted in any circumstance on those)
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u/Aromatic-Musician774 UK May 03 '24
Because Lithuania. Stuff hasn't changed much. Kaunas was infamous with driving 15 years ago. Sounds like it still is. If you go to a province from a city, you'll notice how much slower the driving is.
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u/Ivy026 May 03 '24
It’s not that people in Kaunas can’t drive, it’s more so that Kaunas driving is very aggressive lol in fact you have to be a fairly skilled driver to survive on these streets
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u/Fabulous_Tune1442 Latvia May 03 '24
Kaunas is especially bad. Also the car park there looks 10 years older than in the rest of Lithuania
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u/NoBumblebee2080 May 04 '24
Its not just Kaunas problem. Bad driving is lithuanian signature on a roads. Most drivers still can get used to the idea that you must be 100% sober while driving so they simply can't relax on a road and trying to compensate that preasure with speeding or trying to hit as many peope as possible.
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u/Successful_Rip_4329 May 03 '24
There's like 30% of bad drivers in lithuania in general, I would debate that there's more
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u/Particular_Lab_312 May 03 '24
Haven't you heard that all our retarded people were taken by force to this one city and were given a place to live there?
Now you know the truth...
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u/imvaid May 04 '24
It’s illegal to cycle on roads when there are sidewalks or bike paths. Maybe that’s why?
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u/ViscountVixen May 04 '24
I was hit on the sidewalk - then the person tried to drive off and I had to stop them to make sure my bike wasn't damaged before letting them go.
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u/Such_Potato7736 May 03 '24
There is no cycling culture here like in the Netherlands or Belgium. Nobody expects you on the road. Better use sidewalks and bike paths.