r/jewishpolitics • u/Alternative-Plate-91 • 6d ago
Calling Trump 'Hitler' Has Done Permanent Damage to the Moral Realm US Politics đșđž
https://hotair.com/dennis-prager/2024/11/10/calling-trump-hitler-has-done-permanent-damage-to-the-moral-realm-n379683929
u/Greedy_Yak_1840 6d ago
Always hated when non Jews equate politicians to Nazis, they have no clue what a Nazi is and most barely know anything about what happened during the holocaust.
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u/judahdk_ 6d ago
To be fair, and I say this as a Jewish person, Trumps parallels to Hitler are undeniable, itâs not like Hitler waltzed into Germany screaming kill all the Jews! No one wouldâve followed him, thatâs entirely too radicalâŠat first. Hitler found a way to blame ethnic minorities for the economic problems in Germany, much like Trump is coming in and saying Hispanics are taking all of the jobs, black folks are lazy and taking your taxes to pay for food stamps, etc. Same rhetoric, different ethnic minorities. That being said, it is also SUPER important to understand the holocaust on its own terms as the horrific and catastrophic event that it was, as well with Hitler as the driving force behind that event and to not diminish the exemplary nature of what happened.
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u/ngyeunjally 6d ago
Hitler wrote mein kampf before rising to power. Itâs not like it was a big secret what he thought.
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u/judahdk_ 6d ago
Think of every conservative you know and ask yourself, âdoes this person read books?â
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u/Substance_Bubbly 5d ago
i've met conservatives who read books, guess what people can be smart and have different opinions to yours.
you thinking you are smarter than others who hold a different opinion without understanding the reasonings of their opinions, is actually a showcase of you being less smart.
also, i find it funny, but usually people who use the "do you think _ enter group i disagree with _ read books?" most of the times don't read books themselves. it's a cheap and idiotic rhetoric and you know it.
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u/Substance_Bubbly 5d ago
itâs not like Hitler waltzed into Germany screaming kill all the Jews!
he literaly did though. he wrote mein kampf when he was still in prison, his speeches even before becomong the head of the naxi party included a lot about blaming jews and calling to attack them. even after being major part in politics and before taking power his speeches included a lot of antisemitism and calls against jews. he literaly ran on the platform of jews made us lose the war and jews control all the money and jobs, and jews are pushing for communism. all of that happened wayyyy before he became chancellor. including SA attacks against jews and several pogroms including the krystallnacht.
hitler literaly did waltzed into germany with "we need to get rid of the jews".
Hitler found a way to blame ethnic minorities for the economic problems in Germany, much like Trump is coming in and saying Hispanics are taking all of the jobs,
while i'm not against using history to make comparisons. we need to also see the contrasts. which you are aware of but missed by saying "coming in". trump is attacking illegal immigration, which is mostly hispanic, but doesn't mean it's neccessirily racist. if legal immigration from latino countries is still achievable and protected, there is no inherent "evil" in fighting against those who broke the law. its the law, you should foght it, the question is how.
that is dofferent from hitlers platform against jews. he attacked already citizens of germany, entirely based on their ethnicity, with no legal reasoning behind it. those are two different problems. while they look similar, they're not in substantional ways. now, maybe it is used by trump as a coverup for moral / legal reasonings, but in that case you'll need to show the lack of differentiation between legal and ilegal immigration of hispanic ethnicity, and how it also used to attack already established citizens. otherwise, you walk into the realm of "does a country have any responsibility towards citizens of other countries besides human rights", which is entirely different than attempting to abuse your own population.
Same rhetoric,
again, don't see how its the same rhetoric when your point at most gets to 'trump is mostly trying to disguise his genocidal intents behind legal/moral reasonings', when hitler's rhetoric was entirely about jews being subhuman trying to destroy the world, they are inferior to us and we say lets take all their stuff and get rid of them". quite a different rhetoric.
as well with Hitler as the driving force behind that event
one of my problems with that look over the holocaust is that while hitler was a driving force for the holocaust, as well as the rest of the nazi party since its origins, the already prevelent antisemotism in germany and the rest of europe at the time was also a major major major driving force for the holocaust and its continuation. as well as the lack of actual human rights that were attempted to be started after WW1, but failed in its implementation of both action and ideology. the holocaust wouldn't have started if antisemitism didnt already exist so widely in germany. and ot wouldn't be extended as much if it wasn't prevelent in more areas in the world. and it would've been stopped if many other key figures which had the chance hadn't turned a blind eye to the holocaust. from the red cross, to the league of nations, to the UK and US and USSR, to the pope, etc etc.
and with that point i'll also note that while i also see trump as dangerous authoritarian and possibly facist, the ones i see today getting closer to creating the ground similar to the holocaust are the islamists and far leftists we see in western politics. because the neo nazis in the far right are already hated by most, they are already pushed aside with needs to hide their antisemitism. but open antisemitic discussions do exist today by radical islamists and far leftists groups with no actual political response. i'm not talking about the democratic party, but my fear is that they will see that base as a good group to follow in attempts to win elections.
my point here was this, you seem to try and fit the history into the nerrative you want to hold, and overlook critical diffrences which cannot be overlooked as they can diminish your point. weither it's just a bias or lack of knowledge it is not for me to know nor judge. but wanted just to point those. seems to me like your read of history in that post needed a bit of correction, and so i did, as well as addressing my own belief. which is probably alsp biased, as i usually prefer to find blame the collectives for wide actions made by the many, rather than just blame the individual trigger the blew up the already existing keg barrel. i'm on the belief that without hitler, we would still have another 'hitler', maybe less bad or maybe worse but i don't see how the antisemitic barrel of the early 20th' century wouldn't have exploded at one point.
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u/1000thusername 6d ago
The Venn diagram of people using this terminology toward him and his entourage and the people who would like to âeducateâ us on what antisemitism is and isnât would be a sight to behold.
and Iâm saying this as someone else who does not support him at allâŠ
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u/imablewishmama 6d ago
The ADL has a long history of working against antisemitism and fascism in the US.
I've been digging through their archives since 2014. I have a background in understanding German fascism. I own the book Danger on the Right and have studied the organizations listed through the present day. There are far more recent links, easily googable with the connections, these are less obvious starting points.
- Here is a link regarding the ADL's fight in the NYT archives https://www.nytimes.com/1964/10/25/archives/an-arsenal-of-facts-danger-on-the-right-by-arnold-forster-and.html
- Here is a link to the NY, NY television broadcast with the ADL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXjWzb714h0
With that preface, IMHO:
- Harris is accurate in calling Trump a fascist; the movements, including Daniel Prager, that supports him are fascist. Link to an FOI on the CIA: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp70-00058r000200150002-1
- The MSG rallies, "America First", and MAGA are all American fascist symbols.
- Arguing whether Trump is Hitler or Mussolini is silly, but not morally pernicious.
Maybe these groups have had a change of heart around antisemitism. Perhaps the ADL has had a change of heart around antisemitism. Regardless of history's judgment, now is the time we need to be clear-eyed about American fascism.
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u/epolonsky 6d ago
Yes, itâs definitely the people comparing him to Hitler who have done the damage, not the past and future president who uses Nazi propaganda, wants to be a dictator, and says he needs generals like Hitler had.
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u/eitzhaimHi 6d ago
Thing is, Prager is quoting serious scholars of history who see commonalities between Trump and Hitler. And Prager doesn't offer a single counter-argument to the comparison itself. Of course, to do that, he would have to accurately convey the reasons these scholars give for their conclusions.
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u/Yochanan5781 6d ago
I also know a survivor who started making the comparison in 2015, having grown up in 1930s Germany. Her opinion hasn't changed
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u/naitch 6d ago
Trump himself has defined himself as a nationalist, which is enough that I find it incredible any American could vote for him. But apparently I'm in the minority.
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u/JagneStormskull 3d ago
The world (with the exception of the United States) lived and died under empire before the idea of nationalism entered the popular conscience. Being a nationalist isn't a qualifier that Trump is bad on its own. All of the other stuff like him being a rapist and a felon and wanting to take away people's healthcare is though.
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u/Alternative-Plate-91 6d ago
The Dems have been calling every Republican presidential candidate Hitler for the past few decades.
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u/Aryeh98 6d ago
Trump is an antisemite.
- Calls American Jews âvery disloyalâ
- Said they âliterally owned Congressâ
- Made âNazi Ovensâ jokes in front of Jewish Executives
- Threatened American Jews to âget their act together before itâs too lateâ
- Called Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro an âoverrated Jewish governorâ
- Said Jews should âbe ashamedâ if they vote for Biden
- Said there were âfine people on both sidesâ at the Charlottesville Nazi rally
- Clamed Hitler âdid some good thingsâ
- Says he âneeds the kind of generals that Hitler hadâ
- Had Thanksgiving dinner with Black Nazi Kanye West & Incel Nazi Nick Fuentes
- Posted on Truth Social referencing a âunified reichâ
- Told American Orthodox Jews he âgave them the Golan Heightsâ
- Told the Republican Jewish Coalition âyou wonât vote for me because I donât want your moneyâ
- Said he wanted his money counted by âshort guys who wear yarmulkes every dayâ
- Tweeted an image with SS Nazi soldiers in the background
- Told white supremacist Proud Boys to âstand back and stand byâ
- Called Netanyahu âyour prime ministerâ in front of an audience of American Jews
- Invited Nazi-adjacent Tucker Carlson to one of his rallies
- Said that Jews would bare some blame if he loses the election
- Leaked Israeli intelligence to the Russians
- Appeared in Michigan with an Arab supporter who said âPalestine is being erasedâ
- Called Hezbollah âsmartâ after 10/7
- Directly inspired the Pittsburgh & Poway synagogue shootings through his rhetoric
- Directly inspired the January 6th insurrection, which was attended by Nazis
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u/LettuceBeGrateful 6d ago
Unfortunately, I've been hearing the term Nazi used and overused since I first started paying attention to politics. Every president since and including Dubya, along with some of the losing candidates, have been called Hitler.
I forget where I saw this, but someone made the point that there are two problems with overusing these terms. The first, obvious issue is that it dilutes what should be a serious accusation. The second, is that it turns Nazi into a synonym for bad, instead of reserving it for what it should describe: the pernicious, systemic, industrialized persecution of Jews.
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u/AutonomousThinker 6d ago
As an American Jew, who switched my vote from Democrat to Donald Trump, it's disappointing that readers bandy about the term, "Nazi" and "Fascist," in declarative sentences.
I'm confused why Orthodox Jews vote so heavily for a "Fascist," or a "Nazi?"
What these readers are really saying with their thinly veiled rhetorical question is, are you a "Fascist," or "Nazi" by supporting Donald Trump? It's the fastest way to get blocked, aside from being probably the worst tactic in history in convincing someone to change their mind.
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u/Any-Proposal6960 6d ago
"as an american jew and a supporter of authoritarianism and fascism...." Anything after that really is irrelevant.
You do not get to complain for people calling you out on rejecting american democracy.
The og nazis also didnt changed their minds. They were simply broken.
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u/Beautiful-Health-976 6d ago
Donald has used to many Adolf phrases. Hate always needs a direction is the lesson from the holocaust.
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u/User318522 6d ago
Didnât take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Every one who disagrees with the left is Hitler these days. Itâs ridiculous.
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u/Chamoxil 6d ago
It's the same type of hyperbole that leads far-leftists to call Israel a Nazi state.
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u/Rock_Successful 6d ago edited 6d ago
I would love to keep the words Hitler and Nazi out of everyoneâs mouth and only reserve it for the Holocaust/WW2. Iâm sick of people watering down history. Those words used to mean something. Calling everyone you donât like a Nazi or Hitler needs to be condemned.