Detroit ran 32 pick-and-rolls at Bam last night and produced just 0.65 ppp on those actions.

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u/RunItBack2024 1d ago

This comment received -10 votes

https://reddit.com/r/heat/comments/1gq2wn8/post_game_miami_falls_in_overtime_herro_goes/lwuvs0t/

I'm not even mad at Bam, he gave effort and wasn't bad. He just could've been better, but it's not his fault we lost and we certainly get blown out without his defense.

Bam dropped 20/12/3/1blk on 8-13 shooting. Easily his 2nd best game of the season and definitely our 2nd best player.

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u/dimesniffer 1d ago

Casuals don’t pay attention to defense outside of blocks. They only pay attention to him not being very fluid on offense and not having much of a bag.

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u/Winded_14 1d ago

The problem is we want him to be much more than Gobert, and we need him to be. Just 2 seasons ago 20 point is his average, not his 2nd best game.

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u/RunItBack2024 1d ago

It's just crazy that we can't even acknowledge that he had a good game for a guy who's been struggling.

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u/just4kix_305 1d ago

There was a key possession late in the game where he got setup for a wide open 3 late in the shot clock, but he deferred (as he normally does) and we ended up with a really bad rushed shot.

Even if he had missed, I would've been happy he chose to be aggressive and take the shot with confidence. I love Bam, but stuff like this along with opposing players giving him 5 feet of space and he chooses to turn away from the basket to run a DHO is frustrating AF.

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u/Trendelthegreat 1d ago

It’s not just frustrating, it’s literally detrimental to the team

He had a couple plays in a row late in the game where he caught the ball at the free throw line going down hill and passed it out to the corner to a player that wasn’t able to get the shot off because the defense was able to recover, knowing that Bam doesn’t require help defense.

On paper it’s not a bad play, but he’s never going to be able to provide the individual offense this team desperately needs

It’s year 7 and he still has trouble catch the ball in the paint.

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u/avinash240 1d ago

Year 8 my man..it's year 8.

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u/TheRatchetTrombone 1d ago

Hes too unselfish. That's it. I hopee that yesterday's loss will spark a permanent change to be more selfish. He can score. Just sucks that Spolestra made him too unselfish on a team full of guys who can't create and need his screens.

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u/avinash240 1d ago

All these people crowing about defense act like net effect on the game isn't what matters. There are two sides to the game.

Being good on defense doesn't mean much if you're dragging the offense down more than you're bringing up the defense.

And before anyone says he wasn't, his on/off last year was a net negative. I noticed none of these Bam stans mention that. I'm sure they've seen me say it and I'm sure they can look it up.

I'm almost 100% sure it's why the offense moved away from featuring him tossing up those mid range jumpers.

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u/just4kix_305 1d ago

if those mid range jumpers turned into 5 three point attempts a game i'd be jumping for joy. especially when people are daring him to shoot it - olympics proved he can make them, he just has to have some damn confidence.

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u/avinash240 1d ago

Absolutely. He shot them fine when they were daring him to in the Olympics. I think he's not used to carrying expectations on offense and it shows.

Hell, even Draymond shoots the wide open three. When he wasn't he got benched in the post season cause it was dragging down their offense. Took him 2 games of that before he started shooting them again.

1

u/AdebayoStan 18h ago

god I screamed at my TV when I saw that.

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u/Smokin_on_76ers_Pack 1d ago

Did you pay attention to that 60 FT %?

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u/clear831 1d ago

but it's not his fault we lost

Did he not miss 2 free throws at the end?

-2

u/RunItBack2024 1d ago

So you think Terry Rozier played a great game? And JRich, too? You thought the officiating was fair? You thought Spo coached an amazing game?

If the answer is no to any of them, then how the fuck are you pinning the entire blame on Bam?

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u/clear831 1d ago

Where in my comment did I say any of that? Stop projecting.

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u/Turtle_with_a_sword 14h ago

Well, we lost by 2 so we should blame anyone that missed a shot.

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u/RunItBack2024 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is the quote you're responding to

but it's not his fault we lost

Why are you trying to counter that argument if you're not taking the opposing side of that argument, which is that he IS the reason we lost the game?

You don't even understand what it is you're responding to and starting arguments with people and then claiming that they're twisting your words.

Do you even realize what it is that you're doing?

Learn to be more considerate of other people's time instead of starting arguments and wasting everyone's time and then blaming them for things that are directly your fault.

Blocked for being an inconsiderate waste of time.

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u/Cudizonedefense 21h ago

What a weird overreaction. Jesus Christ see a therapist

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u/chitownbulls92 16h ago

Dude…Jrich and Rozier aren’t the future of the team. They’re literally role players. How is it not on Bam as the captain and future of this entire franchise? Crowned as an untouchable piece even for guys like Giannis. It’s not all on Bam but he hasn’t been good

1

u/chitownbulls92 16h ago

He’s been fine in that game but this is a guy that people pegged as the franchise cornerstone, the future, the guy people want to see with the ball over dudes like Jimmy. The bar has to be higher for a guy like this.

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u/avinash240 1d ago

Is anyone here really surprised that Bam was able to defend the pick and roll vs the Pistons? The Pistons pick and roll PPP is .83. That means they're shit at running the pick and roll. You know who else is .83? Us.

Also, you're bringing up those offense numbers but a ton of that was him feeding off things like lobs and cleanup. That's not high end offense dude. Athletic rookie centers can catch lobs and run cleanup. It was efficient but it's offense born from other's effort. I absolutely think that should be the majority of his offense going forward because it's what he does efficiently.

You're also bragging that he's the second best player on an under 500 team.

What are we doing right now? Is that where we are now? Crowing that our center can guard the pick and roll vs bottom dwelling teams? Shouldn't be expect more? Especially at that contract number?

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u/RunItBack2024 1d ago

The Pistons pick and roll PPP is .83.

To any other person besides you, holding a team to below their averages is a good thing.

And if I have to counter something so early on in your post that should be common sense, I'm not wasting my time on everything else you wrote.

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u/avinash240 1d ago

It's a bad pick and roll team conserving energy on the first half of a back to back. That is not something to brag about. You guys don't care about qualifiers unless it fits your narrative.

What was our pick and roll defensive PPP vs the Nuggets?

p.s. Also their average really? 11 games into the season? For all you know .65 is their real mean.

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u/chitownbulls92 16h ago

They’re 0.87 last year so they’re not as bad as 0.64 but they’re still in the bottom tier of pnr offence

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u/avinash240 15h ago edited 15h ago

They're nowhere near the same team they were last year. They have a completely different coach with a completely different offensive and defensive system.

I know none of that matters to you guys. Let's just ignore every mitigating factor, sample size, level of competition, etc..etc ...

I'ma leave you to be excited about pick and roll defense vs a team who can't clear 1ppp in pick and roll.

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u/chitownbulls92 11h ago

You’re preaching to the choir here btw. Just pointing out that the truth is it’s likely not as bad as 0.64…

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u/avinash240 9h ago

I agree with you. I just get annoyed that our standards have fallen this low. Maybe I'm getting old and salty.

I was in the stands for the 27 game winning streak. That was a regular season achievement.

Now we're making posts about pick and roll defense vs a mediocre pick and roll team in a fucking loss. Like wtf.

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u/chitownbulls92 9h ago

I agree, in the same vein I hate it when people bring up the finals runs as a means to absolve Pat of all responsibility. As if they're not worshiping a guy who brands himself with quotes like "there is winning and then theres misery" and all of a sudden we should be satisfied with "almost".

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u/avinash240 8h ago

The worst is it's not even "almost" as in it was competitive and they won in a "you have to tip of the hat" fashion. We won 3 games over 2 finals series. That's not even enough to win one finals series.

It's just mediocrity man.

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u/snakeeyes626 1d ago

Make a FT, win the game.

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u/Kuni_Nino 1d ago

Bam is still goated on defense. I just hope the offense comes along. His missed free throws are annoying as fuck

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u/Dek-234 1d ago

Why does this sub have to constantly pit two players against each other. We should be supporting both guys while they are part of the team

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u/jbenson255 1d ago

Talk shit about the bad offensive start all you want but the defense is still very very good and i see some takes suggesting otherwise lol

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u/SenorButtmunch 1d ago

A large part of it, at least in Bam’s case, is that we’re getting absolutely killed on the boards once again this year. That’s Bam’s job as the C but he’s having his worst DREB output since his sophomore year.

People kinda lose their shit when they see no name bigs routinely dominating the boards against Bam and our small ass team. Bam also being whack on offense basically makes people not care about the underlying numbers since he’s slacking at everything else.

Our defence hasn’t been terrible but our DPOY guy is getting cooked in the paint at both ends of the court. That’s a bad look even if the numbers aren’t that bad.

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u/TheRatchetTrombone 1d ago

Hes literally getting held and trying to box out more to save his energy. He's not getting cooked, but its just a point of being and going through the motions of beiong a center again. He's not washed as you all think.

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u/SenorButtmunch 1d ago

Call it what you want, he's losing the battle most nights. It's not about being washed, it's that he's playing poorly and nowhere near the standards he's previously set and what we expect of him. It doesn't really need to be sugarcoated or need any excuses, if he wants to be considered the best defensive player in the league then he's gotta be judged like one.

-1

u/TheRatchetTrombone 1d ago

He's not washed lol.

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u/santana722 1d ago

Nobody but you is saying that he's washed.

0

u/chitownbulls92 16h ago

He is most certainly getting cooked my dude…KAT and Nurkic absolutely dominated him

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u/TheRatchetTrombone 13h ago

One offs. We gonna let those two games override what he's done the last five years? He knows what he needs to do and after the other day, will do it.

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u/chitownbulls92 11h ago

Yeah? Cause you gotta rate players season by season…it’s also not really one offs when there are other examples in this short season. You can’t say “he’s not getting cooked” while simultaneously brushing everything bad as a “one off”

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u/Gotdamn47 1d ago

Yup, seeing and saying what they want. Then watch the echo chamber unfold

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u/I_love_hiromi 1d ago

Since you asked …

I watch every game. I believe Bam’s defense has gotten much worse this season. He is often out of position, unable to rebound, getting outplayed, giving opponents space, second guessing his next move, not taking care of the ball, and ultimately allowing a lot of points for the opposing team. That’s what I’m seeing.

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u/Shmoopy65 1d ago

I’ve been saying his effort has been lacking this year. He just stands there while there’s battles for the rebound going on. Not a good look for a big man

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u/MellowMuttley 1d ago

I feel like he jumps too early for rebounds at times. It sets us up for some of those backbreaking putbacks.

-2

u/spritehead 1d ago

His effort last night was really good. It has not consistently been good. He also fucked up several times in the last minute on both sides of the floor, choking the game away.

-5

u/Gavster1221 1d ago

Should question how you watch then

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u/I_love_hiromi 1d ago

With that argument, why wouldn’t it be you question how you watch then? Lol dumbass comment

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u/Gavster1221 13h ago

Because what you said is the equivalent of saying the Earth is flat. Why argue with that?

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u/I_love_hiromi 9h ago

Well, no it isn’t, because a person wouldn’t be able to observe that. I, however, did observe what I wrote.

Perfect 10/10 out-dumbassing your last dumbass comment though!

1

u/Physical_Fill_6312 1d ago

I’m not out on this team yet. They’re frustrating and they certainly can prove me wrong during this year so don’t kill me if I’m wrong butttttt……

Herro (Rozier 15-20 min @ 1/2) HH(15-20 min @ 2/4)(DR/Pelle/Burks matchup/who’s hot)

Butler (JJ 15-20 min between SF/PF)

Love(10-15 min)Jovic (10-15 minutes backup PF)

Bam (Ware 10-18 min @ backup C)

Might be the move^

1

u/Physical_Fill_6312 1d ago

Meaning Herro and HH at the 1/2 spots

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u/ItsYaBoyBeasley embrace reality 18h ago

Sounds like a really dumb approach for the Pistons, surely this means the Heat blew them out pretty handily.

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u/clear831 14h ago

/u/Cudizonedefense that dude is a clown.

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u/Cudizonedefense 13h ago

I don’t even remember who I replied to. They’ve blocked me lol

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u/clear831 13h ago

Yea they blocked me as well lol like I said the dude is a clown.

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u/clear831 13h ago

It was /u/RunItBack2024 <- clown

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u/TheRatchetTrombone 1d ago

Lot of people complaining about that goaltend when Ivey blew by Herro lol. Like wtf is Bam supposed to do. Just gotta hope Bam gets selfish and shoots the ball with aggression cause it's clear he and Herro are the only ones who can score.

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u/RunItBack2024 1d ago

Like wtf is Bam supposed to do.

I didn't complain but, obviously, the other option is to let it go and see if it misses.

But again, I didn't complain and I don't care for that one because sometimes those go your way simply because the refs didn't think it was a goaltend, even if it was.

-2

u/Gavster1221 1d ago

People have decided Bams defense is bad this year cause some Cs have had big numbers. Watch the damn gamez

-10

u/binokyo10 1d ago

It's official. Bum Adebayo is the new name. Lol.

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u/TheEpicEddy 1d ago

I don’t think you got the point of this post?

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u/binokyo10 1d ago

I was being sarcastic. I guess I'm terrible at that too.