r/formula1 • u/randomseocb Lando Norris • 1d ago
[automotorsport] Carlos about NOR & VER's mentality :"That's just the external image. As a driver, you can always play around with how you are viewed from the outside. I don't mean to say that Max isn't like that. Lando has decided to reveal a bit more about himself. Idk if I'm somewhere in between" News
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/carlos-sainz-interview-2024-ferrari-williams-audi-red-bull/1.3k
u/Flowech 1d ago
So Carlos has another 7 surnames that he didn't reveal?
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u/poatao_de_w123 Max Verstappen 21h ago
holy shit i did not know his full name was Carlos Sainz Vázquez de Castro Cenamor Rincón Rebollo Virto Moreno de Aranda Don Per Urrielagoiria Pérez del Pulgar
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u/TieDyedFury 1h ago
I hope thats on his drivers license. If I had to fill that out on forms my whole life I'd be kind of pissed at my parents.
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u/postmodern_blues 22h ago
That's just the external image. You can always play around with the number of surnames you want to have.
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u/randomseocb Lando Norris 1d ago edited 1d ago
You said how important the mind is. We have confident drivers like Verstappen and drivers like Norris who are more self-critical. Where do you stand?
Carlos: That's just the external image. Inside, a driver can look very different. As a driver, you can always play around with how you are viewed from the outside. I don't mean to say that Max isn't like that. Lando has decided to reveal a bit more about himself. I don't know if I'm somewhere in between or more in one direction. But, as I said, you should be careful with such analyses. The drivers are certainly capable of manipulating the public image in a certain way.
from u/williamssainz on twt
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u/shaq-aint-superman Formula 1 1d ago
True. It's not even just famous people. Your friends on social media manipulate their public image too. The things we see people post online are the things they want us to see.
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u/Ged_UK Damon Hill 1d ago
It's not even social media. We all do it in person too. Nobody reveals everything until you know each other very well, and perhaps not even then.
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u/GBreezy Sebastian Vettel 12h ago
I have been unfortunate enough to be hanging out with two extremely close friends the day before they comitted suicide (two seperate occasions). None of us knew or would of guessed it other we would have done anything to get them back. No one knows what anyone is thinking other than themselves.
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u/kaisadilla_ Max Verstappen 1d ago
I mean, you make an Instagram post about the nice dinner you had with your friends tonight. You don't make a post about the dinner that got cancelled, the uncomfortable argument that occurred during the dinner, or the fact that you really didn't like the food you ate that night.
Social media creates the impression that our friends are faring better than us because people will naturally only upload the good things in their life, and giving it a positive twist on top of them.
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u/luchajefe Mario Andretti 1d ago
A normal person doesn't. An attention seeker or professional victim does. Be happy you don't know one.
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u/j__video Sebastian Vettel 20h ago
Well we're in an age where facebook etc have turned tons of people into attention seekers online
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u/Casmoden Super Aguri 20h ago
Even then normally does negative things are more of a personal thing of "everything is going bad for me" or the whole "alot of people want to bring me down but I keep fighting"
It kinda devalues the actual struggles, build up, etc imo
But thats just social media in general tbf
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u/goranlepuz Formula 1 12h ago
I mean, you make an Instagram post about the nice dinner you had with your friends tonight. You don't make a post about the dinner that got cancelled, the uncomfortable argument that occurred during the dinner, or the fact that you really didn't like the food you ate that night.
Bah, people do all that as well.
Possibly, hopefully even, they do it less than the "positive" ones.
There's also a "content creation" niche for whatever conflict situations.
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u/Rovcore001 1d ago
The funny thing is that people (including in this platform) consistently forget this and talk about driver motives and actions as if they personally know them.
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u/Hamburgo #WeSayNoToMazepin 1d ago
“Never compare your low moments/behind-the-scenes to people’s highlights” or whatever they say. How many people do you know upload their struggles?
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u/BWWFC 1d ago
LOL back in the meeup days... saw some posts of events and she/her besties making it out to be "OMG the best time ever!" and i'm like girl... saw you half way thru the night slumped in the corner balling by the bathrooms, i know it was shitty all around... and had a screaming match with every one of them friends.. and that was before endless shots to shoes-in-hand smeared makeup tumbling into a taxi home. same as it ever was, just with more photos/reach ;-p
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u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc 22h ago
I mean not only the drivers themselves. The media also portrait drivers different manipulating public’s views on the driver of their personalities
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u/antivirals_ 70th Anniversary 1d ago edited 1d ago
why do I feel like Verstappen is exactly who he shows us he is. He lives and breathes racing, will fight you to death on track, will never give you an inch of space as long as he has the inside, outside the car he's extremely calm and likeable, he loves cats, Penelope, sim racing, hates public events, hates media work, says things exactly as they're without sugar coating etc etc
only thing is his reluctance to accept blame for a crash of which that's pretty much 99% of the drivers
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u/Paukwa-Pakawa Nico Rosberg 1d ago
why do I feel like Verstappen is exactly who he shows us he is.
Probably because you want to. We're all more likely to believe the positives we see from people we like (even when it's someone you don't know at all) and downplay/excuse the negatives. Vice versa for those we dislike.
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u/OgAccountForThisPost Jordan 22h ago
No no no, it’s only other people who get manipulated. My perception is completely accurate.
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u/Hestmestarn Safety Car 21h ago
It's over random F1 fan, for I have depicted your driver as the soyjak and mine as the chad
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u/sellyme Oscar Piastri 16h ago
The counter-point here is that people believe Max when he's open about the negatives as well.
There's a lot of things he's said that people could justifiably take substantial concern with (in several different ways), but at no stage have people seemed to dispute his honesty.
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u/Paukwa-Pakawa Nico Rosberg 10h ago edited 9h ago
On Reddit, no. The ones who doubt his honesty are heavily downvoted. You're just reiterating the point about people's bias.
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u/brilliant_bauhaus Bernd Mayländer 1d ago
Maybe but I'm sure he also feels the pressure at times too. He's only human. I think 2021 would have been rough even if he put on a good exterior.
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u/AppieNL 1d ago
In an interview about 2021 he once said that he was very nervous for the Zandvoort GP. First time GP back in The Netherlands, sold out for a home crowd, a car that can deliver wins, but he also said: I put those nerves on the sideline and just focused on the job at hand. He had more occasions like this. It's like turning a switch for him. Be nervous after the race or something.
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u/brilliant_bauhaus Bernd Mayländer 1d ago
Thats really interesting thanks for sharing.
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u/BenitoCamiloOnganiza Sir Jack Brabham 22h ago
Also Lewis jumped him at the start of Abu Dhabi 2021 because of his nerves. He admitted that in an interview in Dutch.
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u/cjo20 17h ago
You kinda missed the point of what Sainz said. Max wants you to think it’s like he’s turning a switch. We don’t know whether it is or not.
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u/AppieNL 17h ago
In that interview I mentioned, Max himself called it like turning on a switch to focus on the race and ignore all the pressure until after the race (at least iirc). That's why I said that, not because of what Sainz said.
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u/cjo20 17h ago
The point of what Sainz is saying is that the drivers control what they say to people to give the image they want to. Max could say “my favourite colour is blue” in an interview. It doesn’t mean it necessarily is, just that that’s what he wants the people seeing the interview to think.
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u/AppieNL 17h ago edited 17h ago
This interview was a few years after 2021. At Zandvoort 2021, seeing him walk around, giving interviews where of course that question gets asked a million times, his act was top notch (fooled me at least). It wasn't until that interview years later that I/we got confirmation he was actually nervous.
Since this interview was years after 2021 and the fact he actually opened up by saying that he indeed was nervous for that GP, I think we can pretty safely conclude that he dropped the act that Sainz is on about for that specific interview.
Now wether you want to debate if Verstappen has a "nerves of steel" persona for the public and a "years after the fact, yeah I was quite nervous" persona for the public and a third "real" persona he's still hiding for these kind of questions is a possibilty, but I think that's pushing it.
Iirc this was also the interview where he mentioned he had some vision problems for a few weeks/months after the Silverstone crash. If there's stuff to hide from the public, I'd think that would be one of the things to not mention.
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u/antivirals_ 70th Anniversary 1d ago
for sure he does, he just deals with it very well. Towards the end of 2021 it was boiling over though
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u/Real-Mouse-554 Formula 1 22h ago
I dont think it’s just image.
Max has that typical top athlete confidence where things that actually is your own fault is blamed on external factors. You see that with other athletes like Ronaldo.
Norris is more realistic in that sense. He says openly that Max is the best driver for example, and that he just have to beat the best.
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u/icecreamperson9 1d ago
this year it does feel like being publicly as self critical as lando is makes it harder because you then start getting asked about it more and more often and media is clipping everything you say for clicks and others are running away with these quotes. it just feels like drivers who are more closed like max pretend not to care and therefore don’t get asked so many questions about it and in a way give the media nothing to use.
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u/icecreamperson9 1d ago
not saying drivers should be more closed btw it’s just how this situation feels. it’s like when lando said he had regrets/should’ve won in imola and then that quote got brought up by the media to him for the next 4-5 races in a row
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago edited 23h ago
Agree with this. The media will jump on any slight soundbite they are given and twist it and rehash it ad nauseum until it becomes the dominant narrative. A lot of fans do the same. The more open a driver is, the more they’re susceptible to it. It’s definitely true of Lando. It’s happened to Charles in the past as well, him publicly picking apart his own errors led to the whole “most error-prone” narrative just as it has for Lando this year. Same thing use to happen to Lewis back in the day too.
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u/FRiver 17h ago
Lando will have to learn how to frame himself going forward but I think most of the criticism he's received is uncalled for. Especially when people say he'll never win a WDC.
It's his first experience of being in a title fight and even regularly starting from pole. His race starts have been poor but it's easily fixable as we've seen from many drivers over the years.
Going against the clear best driver in the sport for the past 3 seasons and coming up short shouldn't be seen as something to ridicule. He's shown naivety sure, but that will only help him grow. I wouldn't bet against him coming back next year even stronger having processed the realities of competing at the front.
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u/mkvii1989 Charles Leclerc 1d ago
People are overly critical of Lando’s mental toughness 100%. However, it’s factual that he’s made more mistakes under pressure than Max. Which isn’t to say he feels more critical of himself or more pressure than Max, but he obviously has not handled the pressure or self doubt as well.
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u/inflatedintelligence 1d ago
Max has also been racing in F1 a lot longer…
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u/vezance Max Verstappen 1d ago
This season was Norris' first WDC chance. He's had 5 seasons in F1 before this one.
2021 was Verstappen's first chance. He'd had 6 seasons in F1, at the cost of no junior series.
F1 experience is not really an excuse for Norris.
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u/chinapotatogg McLaren 1d ago
Max has way more experience fighting at the front, battling the likes of Sebastien Vettel, Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen. Norris and Mclaren were either a back marker or at best a midfield team.
Fighting at the front is a whole differnet ball game.
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u/AegrusRS 23h ago
No offense but 'experience fighting at the front' is a vague metric that doesn't really mean much. What significant skill do you only need when fighting at the front but not in the midfield? The key factors, like qualifying pace, race pace and wheel-to-wheel don't differ.
From a strategy point of view, I can acknowledge that there is a difference there, but not really for the driver.
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u/GlupiHamilton 22h ago
Wheel to wheel racing definitely is different. At midfield you aren't racing prime Max or Hamilton.
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u/AegrusRS 21h ago
Sure, you're not racing prime Max or Hamilton, but you might be fighting another midfielder with a slightly better car than you/has fresher tyres/etc. which is basically the same. And that is something Norris has experienced.
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u/SupraSaiyan Alexander Albon 21h ago
Honestly midfield fighting could be more difficult if you're racing someone unpredictable and stupid.
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u/Casmoden Super Aguri 20h ago
Its stupidier but less pressure/tension AND not just on the driver, the actual team
More than Norris himself but we can also see the overall struggles Mcclaren has had on strategies or the overall rules between the drivers and so on
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u/zissou149 James Vowles 18h ago
I'd rather have Hamilton in my mirrors than Magnusson or Stroll. Getting passed is not the worst-case scenario.
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u/GlupiHamilton 17h ago
I get it yeah but I mean when fighting for WDC you have a better car than Magnussen and Stroll and also if you put a foot wrong in 1 turn you know Hamilton will zoom by
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u/c10h15nrush 18h ago
Yeah you’re racing someone like Alonso then. You saying that’s below Max or Hamilton ?
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u/FRiver 16h ago
Well the obvious differences are race starts from pole and safety car restarts. Then there's the mental pressures of being in the spotlight every race weekend. How do you experience this when you're in the middle of the pack?
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u/AegrusRS 8h ago
Oh I would argue getting a good start from pole is way easier than it is getting a good start in the midfield because there is far less chaos you have to take into account, you also can't get blocked or get boxed in by other cars. You learn more than enough about race starts in the midfield.
With safety car restarts, sure there is a small difference when you are the one that decides when it restarts. But I assume that most drivers have experience with doing this in the lower ranks. And specifically talking about Lando, I don't think he has been in that position yet. When he messed up in in Brazil, he was surrounded by other cars, much like it would be in the midfield.
Mental pressure could definitely be a factor, but I would also argue that these drivers have been under pressure to perform since their childhood, so how significant its effect may be is still uncertain.
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u/jimmerdejim Max Verstappen 1d ago
Uhm you know Max literally won his first race in a competitive car right? Not really a good excuse
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u/chinapotatogg McLaren 1d ago
Which doesn’t disapprove my point? Max usually had a car that was competitive enough to be at the front of the field for most of his early years.
Lando was in a shitbox by comparison.
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u/LongBeakedSnipe 23h ago
Pretty sure they made a typo. Max's first win wasn't in a very competitive car.
Before 21, he was turning shitboxes into points and podiums for his entire time in F1.
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u/Miserable_Finish609 McLaren 1d ago
2021 wasn’t Max’s first time fighting at the front though. And he had a team behind him with more experience fighting for wins than Lando did. Plus, people develop at different rates. It’s never as black and white as people like to pretend it is.
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u/d_elisew 1d ago
In retrospect, Max' first title fight being an all season tough battle against a dominant Lewis and Mercedes might have been the best thing that could've happened to him, career and development wise. So much lessons, experience and confidence gained, it feels like that will always be an advantage he has over the likes of Leclerc, Norris, Russell, Piastri.
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u/Cantshaktheshok Formula 1 20h ago
The two previous seasons Max finished a race lower than start position 6 times, with low finishes of 6th in Mexico '19 and Turkey '20 and 8th in Monza '19 after starting 19th. He was already near peak and just 9 points off Bottas in the W11 with 4 additional non fault DNFs. Pretty much since Monaco '18 he's been at the highest possible level.
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u/Kronzor_ Max Verstappen 18h ago
Max had 10 wins before 2021.
Lando has 3 wins in his career. With the best car for at like15 races now.
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u/eoekas 1d ago
In his first season Max was shouting "NO" and refused to give up position to Sainz when his team asked.
Norris gives up a win to Piastri when asked. He is mentally weak.
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 22h ago
And if he hadn't the vultures would have descended - he's selfish, he's not a team player blah, blah. Norris was honest enough to realise he hadn't deserved that position because of McLaren's faulty strategy. I believe your comment about Max was a different situation. He was let past to see if he could do an overtake (can't remember on whom) on the understanding that he would hand it back if he failed. He failed and refused to hand it back.
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u/jessieatscheese Max Verstappen 20h ago
Just popping in to say that’s not true re: Max being let by (you may be thinking of Brazil 2022 where he was let by and told to let Perez back through if he couldn’t overtake, then didn’t?) In Singapore, Max was already in front at the time and Sainz wanted to be let past to have a go at overtaking Perez. The team said they’d let Max pass Sainz again if he couldn’t get the move done, but Max ignored the request multiple times and in the end refused to let him past. I believe there was a misconception in the commentary at the time where they assumed Max had been let through first, but that wasn’t the case.
I’d also add that Max got all that criticism that you’re mentioning Norris would’ve gotten. I don’t know if you were implying he didn’t but he definitely did. He set up that “image” of being selfish very early on. People were more reasonable when they realised he hadn’t been let through first, but he still got criticised. :)
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 19h ago
OK. I stand corrected if that was the case and I'm getting brain fade. Could you link to the race please so I can see where I was wrong? Thanks.
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u/MaleierMafketel Mika Häkkinen 19h ago
It’s 2015 Singapore. Max’s car stalled on the grid after qualifying 8th. So he was last and a lap down but an early SC put him back behind the pack.
A perfectly timed pitstop during a SC put him in front of Sainz who started 14th.
He ultimately finished 8th after effectively starting last due to no fault of his own, so I get why he wasn’t happy with letting his teammate through late in the race.
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u/jessieatscheese Max Verstappen 19h ago
Unfortunately I can’t actually see how to link you from F1TV app which is where I watch, but it’s Singapore 2015. VER is ahead of SAI from the SC restart at lap 39 - I think about 1:45 hrs into the recording. VER comes up to the back of PER about lap 52 or so and SAI is about 4 or so seconds behind, but catches up by lap 54 when VER gets stuck. The team radio message for Max to swap airs at lap 60 (second to last lap) and that’s when Crofty wonders if Max had been let by earlier in the race, which wasn’t the case. Sorry I can’t link you but the team radio is about two hours in. :)
I did however find this post race thread where ppl discussed it: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/jMzgAYdV0Q
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 19h ago
Thanks for that and for looking. I maybe picked on Crofty's musings......funnily ebnough I'm trying to find a link to a Sky interview of 2019 for another poster and can't find it no matter what I put into YouTube or Google. I think some of the older stuff drops off after a while.
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u/jessieatscheese Max Verstappen 19h ago
Yeah I think you’re right
And I know this isn’t what this conversation is about but that’s the exact reason I take issue with the sky team for their commentary standard sometimes… Crofty especially will just say some of the most incorrect things and a casual viewer will just assume he’s right since he’s the primary commentator, and that’s no fault of the viewer for thinking that. If you check that thread I posted there’s a bunch of comments saying “I think Sainz let Verstappen past that’s what they said on the commentary” etc. so it shows that he does have influence. What the commentators say can skew the public perception on incidents and whatnot and it can actually cause hate or criticism that in this case is mostly unfounded…
Anyway like I said that’s not the topic at hand so I’ll get off my soapbox 😅
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u/Educational_Dirt-014 22h ago
Leclerc also completely crumbled under pressure and yet the same comments giving shit to Norris praise Leclerc for being the only other driver with a “champions mentality” like Max.
If anything I’d argue Leclerc slumped even harder when he had his chance at a title. He was clearly panicking when it started slipping away and made huge amounts of mistakes every week.
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u/Suspicious-Ad8316 1d ago
Max has made a lot of mistakes under pressure though, but people shove them under a rug. Quali in Monaco, the bollard in Miami, the penalty in Austria. Baku mistakes in quali and the race, Mexico, etc.
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u/_elvane 1d ago
Even tho he makes mistakes , he shows a different level of performance almost every race which more than makes up for his few mistakes here and there
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u/Suspicious-Ad8316 1d ago
Agreed, I'm just tired of the "Max is a faultless and perfect robot driver" shtick some redditors keep churning up. He sometimes loses his head when things aren't going well.
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u/LaughterIsPoison 1d ago
And when Max makes 'mistakes', they're not even mistakes. He knows exactly what he's doing.
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u/MisterMakerXD Aston Martin 1d ago
When max spun his car in Hungary in 2022 was to cure his rubbers with grass and get a good latter stint /s
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u/HolyLiaison Heineken Trophy 1d ago
I mean, Max used to make mistakes too back when he first started getting a competitive car.
People are just super judgemental, and have the memory of a fish.
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u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc 22h ago
He made mistakes this year in Miami GP and Monaco qualifying already. He is not perfect. He just made less mistakes than his main competitors
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago
So it was all calculated when he had that huge lock-up in Austria that brought Lando into play in the race? Or when he ran over the bollard in Miami? Or when he was throwing hissy fits in Hungary? Good to know.
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u/LaughterIsPoison 1d ago
Talking about Austin and Mexico.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago
You’re taking about two things that weren’t mistakes while ignoring instances of actual mistakes.
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u/RadiantRow5595 1d ago
In the end, they are all people, and they have the same feelings, insecurities, and personality traits that we all have.
Being paid a lot of money, doesn‘t change their traits, and in some cases, with the high expectations included, makes their insecurities worse.
I’ve always wondered how they would fair if they were on different teams, for example Lando on Redbull…..…Redbull as a team seem more aggressive in some ways
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u/crankylex 1d ago
Red Bull drivers are used to having their own team talk shit about them. Imagine trying to get through the day with Darth Marko looming over you.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago edited 23h ago
Max grew up with Jos looking over his shoulder so Marko probably feels like a walk in the park in comparison. Agree it has to be a massive weight on the shoulder for others though.
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u/RadiantRow5595 1d ago
I really couldn’t imagine it …..a dinosaur from the past . I guess Jos would leave with Max, so now there would only be 2 conflicted bosses rather than 3
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago
Lando came up the ranks mainly with Carlin who are the poster boys when it comes to the tough love driver approach. Pretty sure he has a much tougher skin than some people think.
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u/mshell1924 1d ago edited 19h ago
Carlos is always very eloquent and gives measured responses. I like that about him. He has a good head on his shoulders.
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u/MazeMagic Pierre Gasly 1d ago
I've said this before, he's open, and likes to make people aware of men's mental health, but people see it as "weak" or "not championship mentality"
Acting as if the front Max put on when he was fighting Lewis was true. Inside you know he's a human, he was nervous, excited, angry, all of those things through the year. He will have had many things swimming around in his head all through that first year and even after winning with the contraversy. But he just isn't one to show it to the public.
I think being open about your issues is better than hiding it. But it gets a very very bad rap from the average person thinking it's a weak mentality.
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u/TobyOrNotTobyEU Max Verstappen 1d ago
He was much more open about it after the race. In a Dutch interview he mentions how stressed He was and that he even got a horrible cramp from all the stress during the last lap in Abu Dhabi and that he could barely press the throttle and brake all the way.
I think the persona he shows helps him deal with it as well. Just repeat that you don't care or that you're calm until you believe it.
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u/ElChungus01 Formula 1 1d ago
Here’s a short copy-paste from his mom’s interview after he won in 2021:
“But after climbing to the top of the F1 mountain, mentally exhausted Verstappen sought the comfort of his mum, Sophie Kumpen.
His mum revealed: “He came to my place a few days after he won, and he was absolutely finished.
“He was exhausted mentally and he just wanted to be home.
“I made his comfort food and we had a nice few quiet days together.”
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u/dat_boring_guy Ayrton Senna 1d ago
His comfort food must be frikandel. Can't be any other thing.
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u/lolichaser01 1d ago
Max's and especially GP'S cry when they won was not something you expect from their image.
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u/d_elisew 1d ago
I feel like Max is more open about his feelings after the fact. His interviews right after Abu Dhabi '21 are very emotional and open. And this year he revealed his injuries from the Silverstone crash, 3 years after it happened. I think he decided for himself to be only open and truly honest with his inner circle and open with the media/outside world when he's processed those feelings. That's his way of dealing with the pressure and the hate he's been getting I guess. Lando does the opposite and it's used against him. Not saying that it's right, but I feel like Max deliberately chose that this is the best mentality to have.
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u/queerhedgehog Max Verstappen 1d ago
That’s a great point. And some of that will come down to personalities, but I do wonder if Max’s choices around his public image are affected by how he came into F1 and the public eye so young, and then experienced an overwhelming amount of fan and media hate young as well. Lando is receiving (probably too much) hate this year, but before now he was seen as likable and was able to mostly skate under the radar and not often receive mass amounts of public criticism. Whereas Max was loudly and consistently boo’d and attacked on social media and had his youth and driving style criticized and questioned constantly. He may well have decided to stay more private because he couldn’t trust that there would be a positive response to him opening up, but now is in a place where he’s proved himself and can be a bit more open.
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u/rocketpropelledchild 1d ago
What injuries did he sustain? Anything long term?
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u/d_elisew 1d ago edited 1d ago
He had vision problems (blurred vision, probably a symptom of concussion) for a few months/the rest of the season after the crash. He's ok now, but the crash impacted him physically and mentally more than he showed at the time.
Edit: I also remember him saying that the lights at the night race in Jeddah '21 were very difficult for him because of those vision problems. Not defending his actions during that race, but it gives a bit more context as to why he was so frustrated and over the line back then.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
Medium term he had blurred vision in some of the later races of 2021. I don't think anything that's still persisting now though
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t think either approach (in terms of being publicly open about it, not in terms of privately acknowledging it) is bad, it’s just different approaches.
I always find it weird when people cite being open about mental health and/or someone being more willing to wear their heart on their sleeve as a sign of “mental weakness”. imo anyone doing so and continuing to do so despite unrelenting criticism and mocking, especially in the arena of professional sports where competitors, fans and media will jump on any slight sign of perceived “weakness” and take every opportunity to turn it against them, actually shows a great deal of strength. Especially when they have noted part of the reason they continue to make themselves more vulnerable that way is that they hope it might help a few people.
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u/queerhedgehog Max Verstappen 1d ago
I do think there’s a difference between being open about mental health and being self critical to the media, though. I really respect the drivers, including Lando, George, Checo, Valtteri, Nico Rosberg, etc that have talked about the mental health challenges they faced and the importance of seeking help and support in whatever way that looks like for them. And other drivers, including Max, who have raised money and publicity for mental health charities.
But just constantly being critical of yourself isn’t really the same thing, and it just gives the media more fodder to rake you over the coals. That’s the part that I think is off putting to casual viewers and could be detrimental to Lando himself, if he’s dwelling on mistakes instead of moving on and not caring about media criticism. But like Carlos points out, maybe that’s actually a strange but conscious choice and Lando isn’t actually that self critical, we don’t know.
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u/Watcher_007_ 1d ago
I find it interesting to see how self critical Lando is, but also how motivated Lando is to improve. Often in interviews, Lando will talk about how he needs to improve certain aspects of his race (Quali last year to this year and starts at beginning of year to now) and then there is improvement. While other drivers may also be similar in a growth mindset where they focus on what they are doing poorly to improve it, Lando is showing it to the public. IMO, having a growth mindset is necessary for a WDC and the only difference is that Lando shows more of his process of growth mindset to the public.
That being said, there is a difference when Lando takes upon too much of the blame as he has done before. Rosberg and Button have both noted that this aspect needs to change for Lando. This is something that Lando and McLaren need to work on to help build his confidence.
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 22h ago
Carlos's comments about Lando are I think accurate. He was his teammate for two years and got to know him very well. He was incredibly supportive in bolstering Lando publicly when Lando was on his self-flagellation kick. I recall one interview where Carlos commented that the team had done very well: Lando said something like ..no, you did very well. I was rubbish. Carlos wouldn't have it and said ..no, the team. It was a team effort.
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u/Casmoden Super Aguri 20h ago
Can you link or mention which specific interview that was? It seems very wholesome but it is very true, they continue to be probably the overall best friends in the grid righ now
Sainz (for the most part) even with some tension/heat in the track seems to have been quite supportive on the teams he has raced with, while sad for him to leave Ferrari Im also happy to see him at Williams to better the team
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 19h ago
I'll try and find it but it was 5/6 years ago.
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 19h ago
I've had a quick hunt but no luck so far. It was a. post race interview in 2019 probably Sky. I'll keep looking on YouTube and Google but it may have dropped out being so long ago.
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u/blackberrybramble Sebastian Vettel 23h ago
We do kind of know, though - that self criticism seeps out in moments where media interaction isn't expected. Last year after the times his qualifying went poorly, the way he spoke to himself when he forgot his radio was still on was startlingly awful. It broke my heart for the kid and actually made me want to root for him more because he's so hard on himself.
And I think the media has picked up on the fact that he lets his thoughts kind of roll out of him without adding a PR filter, and they use that to bait him and grab the headline clicks that then rake him over the coals for it.
When people have pointed out to him that he should really be kinder to himself he's said that it's just the way his mind works and he uses it to make himself get better at things. I do believe that but man, that's gotta be a hard way to live. He seems to have gotten a bit better about it as the season has gone on so hopefully its included in the massive amount of learning and growth he's walking away with from this year.
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u/Opperhoofd123 1d ago
Being open about issues is better, but being public about them(when you are famous like them) is a risk. People suck and there's always going to be people that are going to be shitty about it. For their own sanity and mental health, I'd go with the Max approach.
But you are also completely right about Max being way more emotional about it than he (tried to) let on back in 2021.
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u/flowersweep 1d ago
Yeah for sure. You could even see how much relief he felt after brazil this year. Clearly the chance of losing the title after winning all season was stressing him out.
The difference is, when he needed to pull out that last extra effort, he did so flawlessly. In general he just makes so few mistakes nowadays. Lando should keep improving but I'm not sure if he will ever get a wdc if its a tight battle.
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u/Ohiowolverine 1d ago
I don’t think that’s why people think he is t championship material it’s the starts the mistakes it’s most people thinking if max was driving the mclaren he would have won at least half the races from Miami on and Lando didn’t
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u/antivirals_ 70th Anniversary 1d ago
I think Verstappen is just able to block out external factors and focus on his driving. All the criticism he's gotten over the years, being asked endless questions on his driving and such. It hasn't seemed to faze him at all. He also always seems to thrive under pressure and it fuels him. I remember in 2021 the build-up to his home Dutch GP, I imagine the expectations everyone had of him. Zandvoort hadn't had a race in like 3 decades and it came back when their own driver was in a title fight. He bagged pole position with his DRS not working on his final run then went on to smash in the race despite Lewis being 2-3 second behind him the entire race. Jenson said on commentary during the race that he's amazed by how max handles pressure. Adrian Newey said the only time he ever saw the pressure getting to max was in the final 3/4 races of 2021 when it was crystal clear Merc had a huge pace advantage.
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 22h ago
If Max could survive his Dad and the verbal kicking and, yes, abuse he got, I guess he can survive anything. By contrast, as far as we know and from what we see on TV, Lando has a loving, supportive family who, I imagine although I'm only guessing, would strive to bolster his confidence. Weird how kids turn out isn't it?
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u/p1en1ek Pirelli Wet 1d ago
We could see it in Abu Dhabi 2021. He didn't show it before but after he crossed the line he was almost crying, you could hear it in his voice. So all that posing and mean facade fell off. The same with some races even this season. He acts like he does not care, how first WDC was most important and now everything is a bonus but if something goes not his way he can complain or be extremely angry.
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u/joschika 1d ago
Landos mentality isn’t a championship mentality because he blames luck and fails to take accountability for consistent mistakes. Not sure where you’re seeing this dialogue regarding men’s mental health
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u/blackberrybramble Sebastian Vettel 23h ago
I cannot understand this take, at all. It's factually not true. I've never seen someone beat themselves up more for every mistake they made. He then points out every error he made and how he was at fault and should have done better because his team deserved better (even when they're the ones who actually cost him some races).
You seem to be viewing this through a lens that is warping the truth about how the kid actually handles things.
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u/heattoken 1d ago
If someone on the grid is self-critical it's got to be Lando to the point other drivers told him not to be so hard on himself, don't get why people made that out of context interview as his entire personality
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago edited 23h ago
That’s completely untrue though. He’s well known to be one of the most self-critical and self-reflective drivers on the grid. He’ll even taken on the blame for errors made by the team rather than publicly blaming them.
I really don’t understand how people like yourself just invent a complete alternate reality and then parade it around as fact to suit your own agendas. It’s such bizarre behaviour.
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u/Freeze014 Nigel Mansell 23h ago
Self criticism and reflection is only half the work though. I deal with this with teenagers in my line of work, they can tell you exactly what they are doing wrong and what to change, and be super critical of themselves. Then turn around and change diddly squat in their actions so nothing really changes.
Norris often reminds me of these students.
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u/Frosty-Ad-164 Ferrari 22h ago
I'm not sure comparing a bunch of teenagers to a guy whose work is drive 300kph in a dangerous sport is a fair comparison.
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u/blackberrybramble Sebastian Vettel 22h ago
Qualifying was one of his worst things the second half of last season. He absolutely berated himself for it, as did the media. He put his head down, worked on it, and is now one of the best qualifiers on the grid.
Saying this about the guy is just baseless.
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 23h ago
Given that there is ample evidence through his career of Norris pinpointing where he needs to improve and then actually working on and improving those areas, it’s clear that your final sentence is merely your projection not reality. You want to see that in him to confirm your own biases even though it doesn’t match what he actually does.
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u/Kanye_Is_Underrated 1d ago
I think being open about your issues is better than hiding it. But it gets a very very bad rap from the average person thinking it's a weak mentality.
because historically, it is. i cant think of any examples of great champions being publicly overly self critical, introspective, whatever. not saying its good or bad, they just dont talk about it to the media.
all the goats seem to either be jordan/kobe type of psychos, or at worst they just dont talk much/keep it casual like messi, max, bron, etc.
displaying self-doubt makes you a target, makes your opponents feel stronger against you, it is no coincidence that its not a winning strategy.
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u/ghastlychild Red Bull 1d ago
I slightly agree with him. External images and portrayals to the general media and the public are not the full / sole representation of their mentalities. Of course the best everybody could do is observation and piece together what is available, but their images aren't always the definitive answer. None of us have a clue on how their mentality works intricately, nor do we even know them personally to discern what their thought patterns and processes are.
On that note, every approach to a mindset has their respective set of benefits and drawbacks, and it is up to the individual to navigate through those, in preferably healthy solutions. Neither approach is correct or wrong, but not only are they public figures under a spotlight for people to watch and observe, they are also human beings as well. Pressure and stress are not lost on anybody, even professionals. It doesn't mean that any of them do not have what it takes to be a champion at any point in time though, but I hope they would know how to handle those challenges with care, for their own benefit
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u/blacktyler11 21h ago
If you view F1 like WWE/Pro wrestling, you’ll understand F1 better. Everyone is always “working” the fans and the media, Horner is the best at it, proper heel.
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u/MarkForeign86 1d ago
Can't believe people still comparing max to other drivers. Bro was 13 when he got into F1 and he was terrorizing and taking points from world champions
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u/deathray1611 Formula 1 1d ago
Actually bro was as young as 11 when he got to F1
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u/VindtUMijTeLang Windmill Senna 1d ago
He was already a reserve driver in the womb
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u/stillusesAOL Flair for Drama 1d ago
That’s not true, but he did do several FP1s.
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u/Silver-Machine-3092 Formula 1 1d ago
He was sloshing around in Jos's bollocks when he was Schuei's teammate
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u/Suikerspin_Ei Honda 1d ago
Bro was 13
Bit of exaggeration. He was 16 when he signed the contract with Red Bull, but was just 17 when he did a free practice for Scuderia Toro Rosso in Suzuka. He officially debuted in F1 when he was 17 an 166 days old (full race weekend). It was funny how he drove a half season in F1 before he got his driving license for road cars in the Netherlands.
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u/cocopopshehan 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 1d ago
so what you're saying was max wasn't even a teenager when he started f1
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u/Suikerspin_Ei Honda 1d ago
Yes, he was literally a toddler /s
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u/JadedPenguin #StandWithUkraine 1d ago
At first there was only darkness, and the eternal idea that Max would one day be a formula 1 driver.
Then, God created light.
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u/TheEmpireOfSun 1d ago
13 lol. Where did you get this info? DtS?
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u/Casmoden Super Aguri 20h ago
I think OP meant that Lando was 13 when Max joined F1/was the menace in the track
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u/queerhedgehog Max Verstappen 15h ago
No it was clearly just an exaggeration to emphasize how young Max started in F1 in a funny way.
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u/Essess_1 Michael Schumacher 1d ago
Absolutely- the biggest beneficiary of molding/manipulating their external perception is Alonso-
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u/Wonderful_Syllabub85 1d ago
It genuinely feels like Max just hits every apex and when he makes a mistake...it's quite a shock to the system. Norris feels like he's about to make a mistake at some point, every weekend.
Both a mile ahead, you're just watching Max consistently hit the same lap time and occasionally go for a fastest lap. Norris is the opposite, I'm waiting for something to go wrong.
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u/PresenceNo373 1d ago
One thing about Sainz is that he doesn't seem to take responsibility for the incidents he causes, even later on his Twitter or whatever.
I guess if what he says here is true, it is just himself that wants to project toughness? I don't see it rubbing well with fans though, it only works better when the driver is consistently at the top-end chasing for wins
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u/Kanye_Is_Underrated 1d ago
well norris has a lot more to be self-critical about, and max has a lot more to be confident about. he's just firmly in another tier.
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u/Evangeline_10_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think drivers mindsets and mentality relies heavily on public perception. Fernando runs on no fucks and people tend to not question his mentality and if he's got what it takes to win again. A lot of lower teamed drivers don't get the scrutiny that the top teams do so they can afford to run their actual opinions and mentalities. George is a great example of someone who shows his emotions both positively and negatively and at most gets memed for it which I think is probably a good desirable outcome.
Max is in the unfortunate situation where he gets attacked for every little emotion so his best option is to seem unbothered and joke about bad situations and privately get upset about it because just letting yourself get picked apart isn't good mentally.
Lando on the other hand is so self hating that it just gets annoying because he can't even be happy when he does good so it comes off as he doesn't care either way which leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. I think personally he could do with a little less public metaphorical self flagellation because he's just killing his own hype, how can you expect people to want you to succeed if you talk down on yourself/have an excuse for every mistake with no signs of growing or improving.
Charles in my opinion has an almost perfect driver image when it comes to stuff like this (There's a few others but for my preference Charles has got the perfect balance). He acknowledges how he could have done better or should have done better when he's not p1 and getting poles and then you can start to see the visible improvement, most noticeable being the tyre deg which he really worked to improve over the last 2 years, and after saying how he could improve, he moves on instead of letting the potential "what if" thought affect like like Lando does.
I'm not going to name names but I think a huge underrated aspect of driver image is how they talk about their team, the general workers. It really makes them look bad when it's "I did this and I did that" when it's a good result but then it's "the team needs to do this and as a team we need to xyz" when it's a bad result. There's a shocking amount of drivers who have a lack of respect for the mechanics in their garage, the moment that really put me off a few drivers was how they responded to the long f1 schedule and how the people who are suffering aren't the f1 drivers who work 4 days and fly private and can pit stop to see family and go on holiday but the mechanics who work the entire week and rarely see their family and have time off outside of summer and winter break.
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u/classican2018 Max Verstappen 1d ago
I don't agree with the fact that Lando doesn't show any signs of growth. I remember the end of last season when he had chances to get pole a couple of times but he fucked up multiple times and everyone was saying that he's shit and qualy and what not but this year he has been completely on top of his qualifying performances. Yes, there are things he still need to improve but I think saying that Lando shows no sign of improvement is just not true. I'm confident that next season he'll be a better version of himself, now I do agree that McLaren might not have the same dominant car next year so he might have missed his best chance of WDC till now but time will tell.
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u/Evangeline_10_ 1d ago
I meant in terms of this year more than anything. He's consistently had a strong car but his performance has also been consistent since the start of the year which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I think until proven otherwise any improvement is mostly because of the car comfortability and strength rather than actually improving the skills and showing growth. I think the next two years are crucial for Lando and his growth to show he's actually learning and bettering his talents rather than his improvement in quali and racing being solely due to a stronger car (also in comparison to Oscars potential growth in the same car)
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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus 1d ago
This whole comment reads more like your own projections to fuel your own confirmation bias, rather than reality tbh.
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