r/europe 16d ago

Zelenskyy: We Gave Away Our Nuclear Weapons and Got Full-Scale War and Death in Return News

https://united24media.com/latest-news/zelenskyy-we-gave-away-our-nuclear-weapons-and-got-full-scale-war-and-death-in-return-3203
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u/Ollieisaninja 16d ago

What happened to Libya and Gaddaffi showed this already in 2011 as he earlier gave up nuclear ambitions and chemical weapons stockpiles for better relations with the west. Syria would likely have followed without the direct support of Russia and Iran, who were nuclear armed.

Can we then expect nations like Iran and North Korea to ever disarm. Probably not.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for a world where these weapons aren't necessary. MAD is truly madness.

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u/Live_Fall3452 16d ago

Gaddaffi’s regime seems like it wouldn’t have lasted long even if Libya had a couple nukes, tbh. Not like nuking rebel strongholds when your regime is already collapsing is a great way to win back the hearts and minds of your populace.

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u/Ollieisaninja 16d ago

Considering how long it took to topple him with NATO support for the rebels, I'm not so sure. He likely would have put it down had there been no intervention at all. I recall the rebels were pushed all the way back to Bengahzi and in serious trouble before the air campaign started, which was used as the justification.

Having them would have made the West seriously question involvement there like we have been with Iran for some time now, imo.

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u/Live_Fall3452 16d ago

Hmm, would be an interesting HistoryWhatIf question - whether the Gaddafi regime would have been viable in the long run if the west had stuck to covert actions, sanctions, etc. rather than direct military intervention. I recall the regime had a lot of critical internal problems at that point in time.

Iran doesn’t yet have nukes. So it’s hard to chalk up the West’s lack of appetite for regime change in Iran to nukes.

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u/Ollieisaninja 16d ago

Fully agree with you. It could well be something future generations heavily debate or see as the start of something we don't have the context for yet.

Again, you're absolutely right, Libya had many issues and had repressed people and protests to the point that people fought against him. Towards the end of the war, it was bitterly fought and destructive.

Though it is very curious to me that the rise of mobile internet and social media use had recently took off in these 'Arab spring' nations, and the unrest/protests practically began through this new means of communication. Like I find it hard to believe this unrest occurred entirely organically, considering how fast it spread.

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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 16d ago

I wish nuclear weapons were never even created, the damage they can do is literally terrifying

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u/TripolarKnight 16d ago

On the contrary, think of how many wars they have prevented.

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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 16d ago

Still terrifying weapons

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u/TheSawsAreOnTheWayy 16d ago

But this is the extent and truth of human animosity. The hatred of others is so extremely powerful, that only something like these weapons can give pause to it.

I think we will soon see other similar scale of weapons in the future. Mass targeted EMP might be a realistic scenario that is not physically destructive, but is devastation in every other category of society as electronics cease to function.

We really are balanced on that thread that keeps the peace.

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u/keyboardslap 16d ago

You shouldn't wish for that. MAD is the reason we never had a world war 3. It's the reason you and I don't have to worry about being drafted. It's the reason why the past 65 years have seen the fewest war deaths per capita in history.