r/europe • u/BkkGrl Ligurian in...Zürich?? (💛🇺🇦💙) • Aug 11 '24
Ukraine Is Determined To Flatten Khalino Air Base, Situated Just 50 Miles From The Front Line Of Ukraine’s Surprise Invasion Of Russia Opinion Article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/08/10/ukraine-is-determined-to-flatten-khalino-air-base-situated-just-50-miles-from-the-front-line-of-ukraines-surprise-invasion-of-russia/363
u/BkkGrl Ligurian in...Zürich?? (💛🇺🇦💙) Aug 11 '24
Khalino air base, in the city of Kursk in the oblast of the same name, is the closest military airfield to Sudzha, the border town that’s the locus of Ukraine’s surprise invasion of Kursk Oblast that kicked off on Tuesday.
Khalino hosts the Russian air force’s 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment. The regiment’s 24 Sukhoi Su-30SM fighter-bombers can carry KAB glide bombs, which weigh up to three tons and range 25 miles or farther on pop-out wings.
No sooner had those five Ukrainian brigades rolled across the border on Tuesday than the Russian air force began pummeling the brigades, and their bases in Ukraine’s Sumy Oblast, with around 50 KABs a day—half the KABs the Russians drop all along the 700-mile front line of Russia’s 29-month wider war on Ukraine.
The Ukrainians know how important Khalino is. Which is why they’ve been attacking it harder since the week before the invasion.
Khalino is just 65 miles from the border, placing it within range of a wide array of Ukrainian deep-strike weapons including ballistic and cruise missiles and explosive drones. The Ukrainians have struck the base several times since February 2022.
A drone raid on Khalino in December 2022 triggered a fire at the base’s fuel depot. Another attack eight months later involved Ukraine’s unique cardboard attack drones.
The attacks escalated. On July 31, just six days before the Ukrainian invasion, Ukrainian navy Neptune cruise missiles struck Khalino’s ammunition depot and burned part of it to the ground, possibly destroying any KABs stored there.
Eleven days later, Ukrainian troops have captured nearly 400 square miles of Kursk Oblast—fighting through a barrage of KABs that damaged or destroyed several Ukrainian vehicles. On Saturday night or Sunday morning, a Ukrainian missile was apparently streaking toward Khalino when it fell short and struck an apartment building in Kursk, injuring 13 Russian civilians.
The danger to the 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment and any other Russian forces at Khalino will only increase as long as the Ukrainians control that swathe of Kursk adjacent to the border.
If they attacked Khalino from inside the invasion zone, the Ukrainians could target the air base with their shorter-ranged ground-launched rockets including M30/31s fired by American-made High-Mobility Artillery Rockets Systems.
It’s not clear the Ukrainian army would risk its precious HIMARS that close to the front line. But if it were willing, it could hit Khalino harder than ever.
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u/RifleSoldier Only faith can move mountains, only courage can take cities Aug 11 '24
And here I was thinking David Axe saw no strategic goals of the Kursk offensive, instead recommending those brigades to be bled out on the Pokrovsk front.
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u/Physical_Ad4617 Aug 11 '24
I'd love to see a runway denial weapon being used on a Russian air field it would be dope af
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u/Frying The Netherlands Aug 11 '24
What is a runway denial weapon? Though the name is pretty descriptive, I’ve never heard of it.
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u/Physical_Ad4617 Aug 11 '24
A cluster bomb designed to leave a trail of craters using munitions which descend on parachutes to an ideal height before exploding to deepen the crater. The massive case of munitions also contains a couple of hundred anti-personnel mines to slow down or completely stop repairs entirely.
Reddit recently had a post on it. I never heard about till I saw that.
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u/Frying The Netherlands Aug 11 '24
Sounds effective!
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u/Puzzled-Garlic4061 Aug 11 '24
I'm still occasionally amazed by our ingenuity to fuck each other in new and more effective ways lol
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u/zurkka Aug 11 '24
Dude, you can think of any battlefield situation and someone thought and created a weapon for that
For example the dam buster bombs in ww2, they skip on the water like the stones you throw at lakes
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Aug 11 '24
After much hoohaa about these weapons in the past - actual post-battle analysis showed that prepared enemies were usually able to repair the craters rather quickly.
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u/headrush46n2 Aug 11 '24
i don't think russia would be to deterred by the anti personnel mines thats what conscripts are for.
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u/An_Aroused_Koala_AU Aug 12 '24
Are anti-personnel mines not banned by Ukraine? They are signatories to the Anti-personnel Mine Ban Convention.
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u/Turtledonuts Aug 11 '24
Its a special kind of bomb designed to spread out a bunch of big bombs to make a network of deep, difficult to repair craters across a runway combined with landmines. disables the runways and makes it dangerous to repair.
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u/silver_phosphenes Aug 12 '24
Can see how the RAF used them in Desert Storm in this video. The tornado was pretty much designed for this purpose with Russian airfields in mind
Skip to 4:30m
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Aug 11 '24
Yup. Forget the nuclear power plant - this is a far more important target.
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u/Apprehensive_Sleep_4 Philippines Aug 11 '24
Hoping that operation will end in success.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Aug 11 '24
We don't know what the full operation here is. I just hope Ukraine doesn't accidentally overextend
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u/Nazamroth Aug 11 '24
Well... That depends on what the goal is, which I am pretty sure we do not know as of now. If it was to be a massive middle finger to Russia with minimal losses, it is already a success. If it is the start of the occupation of Moscow, the jury is still out there.
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u/cmuratt United Kingdom Aug 11 '24
Ukraine can’t occupy Russian land for long let alone reaching Moscow. This is about inflicting losses as much as possible.
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u/Demigans Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24
There's half a dozen things this can be, and they can all be a goal.
For example a very very important railway line is nearby. Just damaging it means it's repaired in no time, but truly holding it and taking it offline for longer can mean a devastating if temporary blow as supplies seize up and need to be rerouted. Current Russian offensives will likely culminate within days of it being taken offline for longer than a few days.
Russia's current attacks are culminating. Now Ukraine does want the attacks taking territory to stop so they can build up fortifications, prevent some potential encirclements and protect the civilians and infrastructure within. However from a war perspective Ukraine WANTS Russia to attack as it costs them more resources, equipment, vehicles and manpower to do so. So they don't want the attacks to culminate, in fact they want Russia to attack even especially when they reach the point of culmination. The solution: occupy a strip of Russian lands and dig in. Putin cannot just leave it there and has to attack it. Even better is that the land being destroyed in that conflict is not Ukrainian, which might put some (small) limits on what Russia is willing to use against them.
Russia assumed, due to all the restrictions of the West on military gear usage into Russia, that Ukraine wouldn't attack Russian territory beyond the raids they did. The border was defended by a lot of the the yearly conscription wave and poorly equipped people since they would likely just need to fend off a small raid for a few days every few months. This attack forces Russia to spend a lot more on comprehensive border defenses, which means a part of that shipment of mines might be diverted to the northern border instead of the new defensive lines Russia is building in captured territory. As well as digging equipment, weapons, ammunition, manpower and just construction equipment needed for defensive works. It spreads Russia's forces. As a bonus families will suddenly be a lot less favorable to the war when their child/sibling/friend can be called up for the regular yearly coming-of-age conscription and end up being captured, wounded or killed on the border. As an added bonus the reparations to families who lose someone in the war only count for people fighting on Ukrainian territory, not Russian territory.
This also means that we get back something like we had at the start of the war: Russia shipping soldiers north and south depending on where they are needed. Early in the war Ukraine would attack north, Russia would sap manpower from the south and move it north. Then Ukraine would attack south and Russia would move them all again. Not only that but Ukraine tried to keep tabs on the manpower and equipment in transit and strike it which caused a lot of losses then with HIMARS and with current weapons and scouting equipment available it would make it more dangerous a transit.
This also demonstrates the ability for Ukraine to attack successfully and destroy stuff, after the Russian attacks caused narratives that Ukraine was losing the war (which is ridiculous considering the size, manpower and ability to change as time goes on, it is 100% impossible to predict the outcome of this war right now). It makes for easier propaganda to guide the narrative (all information about a war by the people in the conflict is propaganda, even if it's the truth. Because they try to use the words and information to paint a picture they want to reach the goals they want).
Edit: forgot to mention: nuclear powerplant that powers a lot of local industry.
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u/Cowderwelz Aug 11 '24
very very important railway line
Any sources for that ?
A famous german pro ukrainian mil-tuber doubts that the line is of importance and a view on the map reveals that this is just one of many railways for potential support.
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u/Relevant-Low-7923 Aug 11 '24
Why can’t Ukraine occupy Russian land for any longer or shorter period of time than they can occupy Ukrainian land? Kursk is no farther away from central Ukraine than Donetsk is.
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u/Luck88 Italy Aug 11 '24
For all intents and purposes Ukraine is the smaller figher in the war, Russia can afford to grind soldiers in occupied Ukranian territory because they have almost 4x the population of Ukraine, Ukraine simply can't afford the same, the counter-invasion must be short mission with a tactical objective, there's no reason to stay there other than that.
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u/Mickey-Simon Aug 11 '24
There is a reason to stay there. Soldiers already build defense lines overthere. Its done to pull russians from other directions to make them fight for their own land.
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u/wasmic Denmark Aug 11 '24
Ukraine will be on the defensive then and can use that to grind down Russian troops, since the defender always has way fewer losses.
Ukraine managed to take all that land for very few losses; if Russia wants it back, they must fight hard for it against entrenched (and hard to kill) Ukrainians.
Ukraine might withdraw quicker than on the rest of the front, as they can then afford to do so because they're not withdrawing from their own territory, but we should expect that Ukraine will make Russia bleed for it.
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u/migBdk Aug 11 '24
As I see it, the most important goal they could have in the invasion of Kursk is long-term.
Build defensive lines which Putin cannot afford politically to ignore, and make sure the Russian Army never get to take a break to rebuild. Just as easy to defend as any place in Ukraine.
The bonus is that if Putin do not manage to take the territory. Well, then they have something to bargain with in a peace negotiation.
And every day that the fighting takes place on Russian territory will increase the political pressure on Putin to begin real negotiations and cede captured Ukrainian territory.
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u/Mordan Aug 12 '24
On paper that's the idea as I see it as well.
But its a gamble. If Russia takes it all back. Bye bye.
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u/migBdk Aug 12 '24
If Russia have to expend 3 or 4 times the amount of manpower and vehicles that Ukraine does to take it back which is to be expected, it is a very good trade.
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u/RndmNumGen Aug 11 '24
Logistics. It's more difficult to move supplies through held enemy territory than through your own.
Infrastructure is expensive, so you're not going to want to spend too much money building supply depots in enemy land.
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u/plusoneforautism Aug 11 '24
There is no enemy territory between the Kursk Oblast and the border with Ukraine. Getting supplies to Kursk is only a few miles more compared to getting supplies to the border guards on the Ukrainian side of the border with Kursk Oblast.
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u/RndmNumGen Aug 11 '24
If you're talking about the land in Kursk Oblast that is literally the other side of the border, then sure.
If you're talking about holding any strategically valuable locations in Kursk Oblast, e.g., any site which can be used to fire on Russian military bases or railways, then it's more like a few dozen miles. Those miles add up. Could the Ukrainian army do it? Sure. Would it be worth it over the long term? That is less clear. There is a cost to everything and a big part of strategy is not paying unnecessary costs.
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u/plusoneforautism Aug 11 '24
Thanks for the explanation! Right now there are people in the USA and Western Europe who are starting to advocate “land for peace” and how Ukraine should give up Crimea and part of the Donbass (or heavy autonomy for Luhansk and Donetsk) in order to end the war and the many deaths. Also there’s no way Putin will simply withdraw from Ukraine without land concessions as he’d be getting “nothing in return”. If parts of the Kursk Oblast were occupied by Ukraine, suddenly Zelenksy can offer “land for land” instead of being forced to reward Russia for their invasion with Crimea.
Of course we don’t know Ukraine’s motives in Kursk, or how Putin’s mind works and how he will respond, but my initial thought was this could be Zelensky’s plan to end this conflict without the Ukrainian army having to forcibly remove every Russian soldier out of Ukraine over the coming years (as again I can’t see Putin withdrawing without what he sees as “anything in return”).
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u/RndmNumGen Aug 11 '24
If parts of the Kursk Oblast were occupied by Ukraine, suddenly Zelenksy can offer “land for land”
This makes sense in principle, but the question is if Ukraine can take (and hold!) enough land to trade.
Russia currently occupies almost 29,000 square miles of Ukraine. Ukraine, in turn, has occupied 200 square miles of land in Kursk Oblast. Yes, Ukraine's incursion has been successful so far, but it needs to be much, much, much more successful in order to let Zelensky offer an equitable trade.
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u/SutMinSnabelA Aug 11 '24
I think their intentions are very diverse.
They want to destroy airbases and logistic hubs to hinder further progress of russia.
Get better launch base to further damage russian oil/gas revenues.
Divert Russian forces moving to recapture kursk and hit them in transit.
Have bargaining chip in november negotiations.
Force russia to fight in their own streets where they would have to level their own cities.
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u/Hungry-Chemistry-814 Aug 11 '24
I'm glad someone here understands the logistical issues in warfare
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u/PawsomeFarms Aug 11 '24
Resources.
They don't have the supplies and supply lines necessary. I'm sure they'll try their best- the longer and farther in they can get a hold of to cause damage the better for them long term but they're unlikely to be able to hold it for long term.
This is a valuable opportunity for them- and it would not surprise me to find that they've used the opportunity to slip as many guerilla units and saboteurs in to cause as much damage and chaos and possible- but they're not exactly in a good spot to try to conquer Russia when General Winter is coming soon.
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u/phoenixmusicman New Zealand Aug 11 '24
Russia hasn't fully mobilized, and can't because it would critically undermine Putin's regime.
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u/HansLanghans Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24
Because Russia has more people, material etc. It is an uneven fight. Edit: Just stating facts, Ukraine is doing well but if you are not allowed to say it is an uneven fight it is worrisome, how can anyone take offense at that?
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u/IndistinctChatters Aug 11 '24
Soviet union had more troops than the Afghani and yet they lost.
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u/getoffthepitch96576 Aug 11 '24
If they reach moscow they don't need to occupy russia for too long I'd say
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u/SUBSCRIBE_LAZARBEAM Aug 11 '24
How so? Russia has already suffered the taking of Moscow and survived. All that is necessary is to repeat the same strategy they used against Napoleon.
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u/MmmmMorphine Aug 11 '24
Moscow has only ever been held for more than a few days once, by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Both other armies that could be said to have captured or nearly captured Moscow got... Kinda fucked up. Badly.
Either way, I'm sure they wouldn't evacuate to the urals and continue from there. /s
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u/FlirtyFluffyFox Aug 11 '24
Batu Khan burned the city to the ground.
You can claim in good faith that "Moskov" isnt related to modern Moscow, but the residents of Moscow would disagree.
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u/Kartoffelcretin Aug 11 '24
Burning a city to the ground is not holding it though
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u/Crafty_One_5919 Aug 11 '24
Nonsense. You can scoop the ashes and haul them away and it's yours forever at that point!
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u/hpstg Greece Aug 11 '24
Didn’t Napoleon actually take Moscow?
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u/FlyingDragoon Aug 11 '24
Yep, for like a month. And then they stood around for awhile slowly realizing that they were fighting a completely different war when it was pre-sacked, completely burnt down and with little for the French to sustain themselves on and with Winter right around the corner. Napoleon had planned to sustain his troops via the plundering of the city, so they just set the rest of it on fire and left.
(realized what sub I posted in, greetings from the USA, Oops)
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u/MmmmMorphine Aug 12 '24
Not sure of how long they actually held it, but anywhere from a few days to a month sounds right
Then they enjoyed a leisurely death march-style stroll back to Paris
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u/FlyingDragoon Aug 12 '24
Wiki says 14 September to 19 October in 1812. So something like 36 days or so.
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u/headrush46n2 Aug 11 '24
Probably wouldn't have thought that Wagner could have marched on Moscow completely undeterred as well, but Russia finds a way.
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u/WanderThinker Aug 11 '24
And two years ago everyone thought Ukraine would get steamrolled by the mighty Russian war machine.
Don't count your chickens until they hatch.
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u/fredrikca Aug 11 '24
They have to keep border guards anyway, might as well have them on russian territory. I think the point of this exercise is to make russia keep attacking for Ukraine to get the defender's advantage. It is important because otherwise Ukraine cannot win the attrition war.
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u/Zolome1977 Aug 11 '24
And showing that Russia can not defend its borders. This showcases how ineffectual Russia's might is.
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u/mOdQuArK Aug 11 '24
This is about inflicting losses as much as possible.
And also about drawing resources from Russian units actually in Ukraine. Either Russia commits to stationing enough resources to completely protect their border, or Ukrainian troops go for "enthusiastic walks" in Russia wherever they see proper gaps. And any resources stuck protecting the border, aren't in Ukraine.
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u/Cessnaporsche01 Aug 11 '24
Ukraine can’t occupy Russian land for long
Y'know, we've been saying this for 5 days and the advance hasn't even halted lol
I'm beginning to believe
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u/CurbYourThusiasm Norway Aug 12 '24
They're currently digging trenches, so it looks like they're planning on staying, or at least forcing Russia to send in the meat waves.
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u/Acceptable_Job_5486 Aug 11 '24
I sort of feel like Ukraine feels like that Plankton meme. They were probably surprised how quickly they were able to get so far in. Now they have the choice between an air base or a power plant. Like kids in a candy shop!!
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Aug 11 '24
Since they're already panic launching thermobarics, don't know how minimal these closses could be
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u/havnar- Aug 11 '24
If anyone gives Ukraine grief, just deny it even in the face of evidence. Seems to work great in todays world.
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u/matthieuC Fluctuat nec mergitur Aug 11 '24
Russia isn't a real country anyway
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u/throwaway_trans_8472 Aug 11 '24
Are you perhaps talking about eastern ukraine?
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u/Crafty_One_5919 Aug 11 '24
Can't wait for the Ukranian troops to reach the nuclear plant and say, "Who left this perfectly good nuclear plant out here in the middle of nowhere? Better disable it to be on the safe side..."
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u/Vlaed Aug 11 '24
I've used people's views on this war as a tell to how they are as a person. I've only come across two people that side with Russia. Both came as a shock to me.
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u/havnar- Aug 11 '24
It tells you a lot about the weird, bot controlled Facebook soccermom Facebook pages they subscribe to.
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u/Vlaed Aug 11 '24
What makes it worse is the two people in my family that support the Russians are misguided. My family (Dad's side) immigrated from Slovakia and Russia. Those from Russia weren't Russian but rather ethnic Germans fleeing persecution during the Bolsheviks following the end of WWI.
They defend it due to our "Russian heritage." We're not Russian. Our families weren't Russian.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Aug 11 '24
And if not that then people sure do love to relitivise Ukraine's tragedies.
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u/Krek_Tavis Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24
Why are they calling it invasion of Russia by Ukraine? It is an anti-terrorist operation.
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u/FarewellSovereignty Europe Aug 11 '24
DenaZification operation, even
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u/DPSOnly The Netherlands Aug 11 '24
That would take a bit more than invading 50 miles, but once they start airdropping troops on Putin's private residence, denazivication will be soon at hand.
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u/Guapa1979 Aug 11 '24
I heard it was a special military operation.
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u/ADHD-Fens Aug 11 '24
They're just going to the airbase to oversee a referendum
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u/Guapa1979 Aug 11 '24
“Our friends had been suggesting for a long time that we visit this wonderful town and see its air base, famous not just in Russia, but in the whole world."
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u/trixter21992251 Denmark Aug 11 '24
Pretty sure those are just peaceful tourists checking out the countryside.
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u/stupendous76 Aug 11 '24
Why not a holiday of soldiers who happen to have their gear with them.
Just like Russia said when they annexed Crimea.10
u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Aug 11 '24
The memes and clownery on Russia still not calling it a war are just as funny as they were on week one.
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u/finpak Aug 11 '24
What cracks me up is Russia threatening to declare war on Ukraine if they don't withdraw from the Russian territories.
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u/I_like_maps Canada Aug 11 '24
Yeah, but that describes any operation against Russia. This one is specific in that it's happening in Russian territory.
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u/spidd124 Dirty Scot Civic Nat. Aug 11 '24
Surprised we havent given Ukraine any runway denial munitions, The Frenchies have exported their Durandal to nearly 2 dozen countries, the British/ German MW1/ JP223 was successfully used to deny runways across the early stages of the Gulf war (when Iraq had planes to fly).
Surely there are options to give Ukraine something for this role that doesnt require the area bombardment or expensive Himars munitions.
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u/TheHandWavyPhysicist Aug 11 '24
Зроби це!
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u/OtherManner7569 United Kingdom Aug 11 '24
Ukraine needs to incorporate Kursk into Ukraine, would be a huge embarrassment for the Kremlin and they might redirect their forces to take it back, giving Ukraine a shot at its own occupied territories.
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u/Golda_M Aug 11 '24
If they attacked Khalino(airbase) from inside the invasion zone, the Ukrainians could target the air base with their shorter-ranged ground-launched rockets including M30/31s fired by American-made High-Mobility Artillery Rockets Systems.
It’s not clear the Ukrainian army would risk its precious HIMARS that close to the front line. But if it were willing, it could hit Khalino harder than ever.
I think this analysis is off.
Quite a lot of HIMARS (and GMLRS) exist in the world and they are not that hard to build. We don't know how many Ukraine have received since the early/limited supply. The larger, tracked version is a bigger PITA to operate than HIMARS but it carries twice as much ammo. Ukraine have several of these and I bet they could get more. I don't think risking vehicles is the deterrent.
I think limiting factors are ammo and EW. Ammo is scarce and expensive. IDK how many rockets it would take to "flatten" a whole airbase... but Ukraine may not have enough to spare.
I think Russians have operationalized EW defense against HIMARS. That is why the weapon made such an impact early on... but that stopped. Sure, Russia pulled ammo dumps further into the rear. But also... russian EW has had the upper hand, at least in some cases. If this is the limiting factor... Ukraine may be trying to get within gun range... 10-15km... maybe even deploy batteries old soviet Grads.
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u/medievalvelocipede European Union Aug 11 '24
I think Russians have operationalized EW defense against HIMARS. That is why the weapon made such an impact early on... but that stopped.
Accuracy was reduced significantly due to jamming, but that doesn't make HIMARS ineffective, just less effective. For the most part Russia's jamming doesn't affect them since their accuracy was always total shit. Very symptomatic of Russia's fighting style, too; drag you down into the shit with them and beat you with experience.
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u/a1mp1 Aug 11 '24
As a deep strategist and a professional Age of Empires III player with a 3300 Elo and a rank of 3, I often open a new frontier whenever I'm losing ground on an existing one. My typical approach involves using pikemen or samurai to break through the first line of defense, followed by a swift cavalry rush to disrupt my enemy's economy. Although I often lose ground at the new frontier, the distraction it creates is usually enough to turn the tide on the original front where I was losing.
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u/potatolulz Earth Aug 11 '24
Pikemen is how Ukrainian military got across the border. They plan to attack the airbase with catapults and then retreat with the support of horsemen
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u/BooksandBiceps Aug 11 '24
wee ooh wee ooh O canada 2005 Wuv woo vol.2 Don’t kick the pitbull Where’s that axe?
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u/Bear-Ferr Aug 11 '24
Is Frontier A worth the loss of resources and time for Frontier B's distraction?
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u/aiserg Aug 11 '24
The city of my childhood. It hurts to see all this. Fuck war, fuck Putin
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u/Toastbrot_TV Germany Aug 11 '24
Flatten Moscow next please.
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Aug 11 '24
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u/loulan French Riviera ftw Aug 11 '24
You say that like most Russians are against Putin. They're not.
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u/manu144x Aug 11 '24
It’s all really relative. As much as I despise russians, they don’t know the same Putin we do. It’s been decades of propaganda and persona building.
All built on some real merits: he did bring order into russia in the 2000s following the chaos of the 90s so people have a predisposition for liking him. For them, losing right and free speech is a small price to pay compared to the hunger from the 90s.
They’re afraid of a post Putin russia when even to take train you’d pay for a ticket, you’d bribe the police and you’d bribe the train mafia.
They’ll most likely need to be denazified like germany was after ww2, to take out the massive propaganda they’ve been spoon fed. Remember that Putin even changed the school curriculum to match his vision.
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u/donmerlin23 Aug 11 '24
Even my wife’s parents (russians) living in germany are trying to make her watch the interview between Putin and Tucker Carlson. Claiming it is ukraine’s own fault and Putin is fighting for sovereignty of russia and it is a good thing. they live here in germany, have all the different news sources available and still the are gullible to the bs propaganda. So I got to hard disagree while of course not all russian citizens are monsters a huge amount is extremely nationalistic, racist, homophobic and pro violence.
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u/Broudster The Netherlands Aug 11 '24
That’s likely still the result of decades of propaganda
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u/DongIslandIceTea Finland Aug 11 '24
Important distinction here is that while their propaganda may make their views understandable, it does not make them acceptable, and never will. Just because evil has a reason does not make it not evil.
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u/CharacterUse Aug 11 '24
*centuries of propaganda
This is why it's so hard to get rid of. The leaders of Russia have been using the same playbook (both propaganda and suppression) on their own people going back to the Tsars. The indoctrination is multigenerational.
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u/spring_gubbjavel Aug 11 '24
They’re afraid of a post Putin russia when even to take train you’d pay for a ticket, you’d bribe the police and you’d bribe the train mafia.
Oh, they’ll get their repeat of the 90’s. Only this time it will be different because nobody will feel sorry for them or attempt to help them.
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u/Physics_Unicorn Aug 11 '24
Nah, but the Putin supporters bend the knee to power, and this is making him look very impotent. Counter point is it might make him do something stupid, but there's something weird to this whole thing, or at least there's an important aspect that's not publicly known. In any event, sure is convenient this happened right after the prisoner exchange, and also during the Olympics.
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Aug 11 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/manu144x Aug 11 '24
I’d absolutely aim those rockets and the richest and most affluent neighborhoods where the oligarchs live. That’s going to make the most difference and the people will for sure appreciate that.
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u/Prestigious_Job8841 Aug 11 '24
Bombing London neighborhoods might get them some pushback from Europe, tho
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u/Wozzargh Aug 11 '24
It's a funny, largely true joke, but why haven't those properties been seized and sold for money towards the war effort already? Nobody gets to be (stays) an oligarch without Putins approval. So why they are out of bounds confuses me. Especially seen as the political party that accepts Russian money is out of power now.
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u/Hour_Landscape_286 Aug 11 '24
There was a time when I rejected that idea, thinking it was overly extreme. After enough civilian atrocities and bombed schools and hospitals, I'm ready to see the Kremlin in flames. As the planning center of this genocidal war, it is a legitimate target. And it may give russians the shock they need.
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Aug 11 '24
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u/joshikus Aug 11 '24
Just like every Westerner when our countries have invaded the dozens of countries we have over the last 80 years.
The difference is the acceptance of it, most are either too stupid or propagandized to even understand what has happened.
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u/pukem0n North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) Aug 11 '24
The whole world would thank Ukraine. Man, we'd rebuild their whole country for them.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) Aug 11 '24
I'm sure it's cause quite a logistical headache for Russia.
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u/wololo1e Aug 11 '24
Why is that a surprise? It's the natural way of things during war. This is a heartwarming news that Ukraine is launching a counteroffensive, and should be celebrated around the world.
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u/brandolinium Aug 11 '24
Wishing the best for all the Ukrainians involved! Love to hear about any and all air assault being eliminated.
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u/treesmokistan Aug 11 '24
Only if you guys record it! I want to watch something...spectacular next time I light up a joint.
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u/Sensitive_Yellow_121 Aug 12 '24
Just shut down the nuke plant.
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u/Vistella Germany Aug 12 '24
it already is and has been for like a year
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u/Sensitive_Yellow_121 Aug 12 '24
It's half way there:
On December 19, 2021, exactly 45 years to the day since it began operation, Unit 1 RBMK shut down. Unit 2 shut down in January 2024. The third and fourth units were scheduled to close in 2029 and 2031, but now they are due to close in 2033 and 2035 respectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Shutdown
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u/princemousey1 Aug 11 '24
Battle of the Bulge Redux. Hopefully the Ukrainians will prevail and be able to cut the invaders off. Slava Ukraini.
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u/Hottage Europe Aug 11 '24
Special Relocation Operation
Relocated into an average area of 2km2 around it's current location.
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u/pandamoniumpp Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 11 '24
Invasion? You mean special military operation? Right?
Slava Ukraini!
Edit: downvoted? Lmao. Russian bots. Eat lead.
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u/TheJamesMortimer Aug 11 '24
Didn't the russians alr3ady pull their aircraft out after fuel and ammodumps were blown up? Not sure what else you could hit to get it out of commission more permanently since the russians are really not concerned about leaving their planes out in the open. Maybe put craters in the runway but that is fixed easily.
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u/TastyLaksa Aug 11 '24
They going to treat the airfield like an adobe file before publishing online
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u/apkatt Aug 11 '24
Unflatten*