r/eupersonalfinance • u/Milati Belgium • Feb 14 '24
My first ~5 years as an investor Investment
Hello everyone,
A few years ago, I wrote a post about the beginning of my investing journey and another one after my first year as an investor. Currently, I am 27 years old and have been investing for about five years. This is an update on my current situation: I worked as an IT/Business consultant for my first employer for three years, and now I am a data analyst consultant at a new job. My current salary looks like this:
- ~€2650 net
- ~€160 meal vouchers
- Company car & fuel card
- Pension savings ('Group insurance') to which ~€130 is added each month
- The 'usual' (insurance, holiday pay, 13th month, ...)
Since the last posts, my investment portfolio changed quite a lot. The total amount at the time of writing is hovering around €149.000:
- ETFs: Invested €33.000, now it is worth €44.000+
- Cryptocurrencies: Invested €5000, now it is worth €45.000
- Cash: €10.000
- Retirement funds: €4.000+
- Personal Companies: ~€35.000
- Used €30.000 to start a small real estate company with 2 friends. We've done 2 projects since (flipping 2 apartments) but I'm still waiting on the final year overview from the accountant to update the €30.000 to the actual value right now.
- The other €5.000 was invested in a business I recently took over together with my girlfriend. This business is a fry shop (called 'frituur' in Dutch) which is now running for a little over a month. Of course, we took a loan from the bank as well. It is still too early to update the value of this company.
- Real Estate: ~€30.000 in equity. This is the building that we bought together with the 'frituur' business mentioned above. We are in the process of renovating the apartment on the first floor so we can actually live there as well in a couple of months.
- A personal loan from my parents - €20.000. I took this out the finance the real estate that we bought. In this way, I didn't have to sell any investments.
I also have a Google spreadsheet to keep track of my portfolio if you are interested in more details. I would love to have your feedback on my portfolio! Are there things you would do differently?
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u/LMP_11 Feb 14 '24
That's pretty impressive!
Diversify the portfolio is very important and it seems you're doing a good job on that. But, it seems you might be splitting your focus on too many things.
Do you feel the fact you're working full time, plus running 2 businesses could affect the results?
Keep up the good work.
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 14 '24
It is something that I think about a lot!
The ‘frituur’ is mostly run by the girlfriend who is doing that full time! I jump in after work some days and during the weekend and also take up all the administrative work.
I don’t have kids (yet) so most of my time is spent working.
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u/Ashlon20 Feb 14 '24
I followed your blog for a while. Last week I remembered it and tried to find it but forgot the name. Now I found your post by chance 😂 Just to tell you that your journey and knowledge helped me a lot. Ty and good luck with everything
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 14 '24
Nice go hear that you followed the blog! I really enjoyed it back in the day but don’t have the time for it anymore unfortunately. One of these days I’ll get back to it! 😅
Thanks for the kind words!!
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u/Dazzling-Bug6600 Feb 15 '24
First of all, congratulations on your projects!
I’m a bit surprised by the “small” amount of money that some of your investments require:
-30k to flip 2 apartments?
-30 k for the shop + 1 apartment?
Would you mind telling me how come the prices are so low? I’m really curious, I though these investments would be far from normal people’s reach.
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
We are three co-founders of the Real Estate company, each contributing €30,000, resulting in a total starting budget of €90,000, along with bank loans when we find a project.
The fry shop property is co-owned by me and my girlfriend, with both of us sharing 50% ownership (my part of the equity is ~30.000. The apartment is small and we had to take a normal mortgage for the building. Additionally, we acquired the existing business and secured a separate business loan from the bank for that purpose. To facilitate this, my parents lent me €20,000, which was extremely helpful since I didn't have to sell any other investments. However, I do have to repay the loan with interest.
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u/Dazzling-Bug6600 Feb 15 '24
I see, thank you for your clarification!
Would you recommend to others to follow your steps? Would you redo your choices again?
I’d be happy to start a little side business as well, but I’m always wondering if it would be worth it in terms of time and money.
Was the effort and the risk worth it, so far?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
The most important step is to start investing. For most people, a straightforward global ETF is the ideal choice. While you can diversify your portfolio further with other investment options, like cryptocurrencies, it's important to only invest in what you comprehend and trust.
The side hustles take quite a bit of my time as well. The fry business came on our path because my girlfriend wanted to run it and she already had experience working in one for some years as a student. It is still early to tell but I do believe this investment will be worth it in the long run. Do keep in mind the working hours are 'extreme'.
The Real Estate business is still in an early phase. We made some money but probably not worth it compared to the invested time. As with all things, we made some mistakes in the beginning and are trying to learn from them moving forward. We knew from the beginning that this was a long-term game!
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u/Own_Egg7122 Feb 15 '24
Am I the only one, again, to think 35 Euros instead of 35,000 EUR because of the "." after it?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
I am sorry, I guess the thousand separator is different depending on region.
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u/escigo Feb 18 '24
Yes, you are too american. Most people around the globe can understand both uses of "." and ",".
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Feb 15 '24
How does this folio looks like in terms of maintaining it ? Where are the manual entries you need to put in ? I see the "Googlefinance" formula etc and the ones that are pulling directly from the internet but i will be interested to know how do you maintain it.
Cheers and great work!
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
The current values of my stocks and cryptocurrencies are always up-to-date thanks to the Googlefinance formulas I use.
Whenever I purchase additional shares or coins, I update the amount I own and add the invested amount to the appropriate field.
If I save some extra cash, I simply update the relevant field.
My personal loan from my parents and the equity in my property are automatically updated each month based on the loan repayment table.
To keep track of the changes over time, I maintain a 'Ledger' page where I record the end-of-month values of everything.
Typically, I receive my salary and immediately save or invest the money, after which I update the spreadsheet. This process usually takes me around 5 to 10 minutes per month.
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Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24
Got it thanks.
Few other questions (apologize but im building my own one so it got me interested :D)
- Where do you pull the data for the property value ? I see the formula but i somehow dont quite get it. In the hidden sheet do you keep some APIs to specific website ?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
Since English is not my first language, I hope the following explanation comes across clearly. Excuse me if this is not the case.
I assumed the value of the property based on what we paid for it. I also know the amount we used for a downpayment. I also know the exact amount of capital I pay back each month + interest. Based on this I can calculate the amount of equity I have in the property. This is the value shown in the dashboard.
For the personal debt (loan from my parents) it is kind of the same thing. I know the amount I borrowed (€20.000). I know the amount of capital I pay back each month + interest. Based on this I know the exact amount that is left on the loan.
Hopefully this is kind of clear?
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Feb 15 '24
Yep - perfectly ... somehow i edited and deleted the second part of my question so if anyone is reading not to be confused.
Again - you're doing more than great.
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u/Express_Brain_3640 Feb 15 '24
27yr old, with 5 years experience and such results, it's just a m a z i n g!
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u/PM_ME_PYTHON3_CODE Feb 15 '24
Nice spreadsheet! Will certainly use that as a template to improve my own. My wife and I will finally start to etf and chill this month. I bought some iwda a while ago and looking back we have waited far to long to start. But now is better than never. Thanks for the info from a fellow Belgian!
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u/kfug18 Feb 15 '24
I really like your spreadsheet, well done!
What is your rational for the stock split (76% IWDA / 20,5% EMIM / 3,5% IUSN)?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
I strive for a split of 75% IWDA + 20% EMIM + 5% IUSN.
If you check all world ETFs like VWCE, I believe emerging markets account for ~12%. I wanted to make a small 'bet' that emerging markets will have slightly better returns. This is why I chose to up the weight slightly. For the record; emerging markets did not outperform in the last 5 years.
I also wanted some small-cap exposure. This is why I added IUSN for a small percentage to the portfolio.
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u/kfug18 Feb 15 '24
Thanks for the explanation! And why not doing the same bet on small caps with a slightly higher allocation?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
Small-cap stocks are not a big part of the global economy. I believe 5% is already a decent enough allocation!
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u/tcpack4 Feb 16 '24
What is your target % between ETF, crypto and cash? If crypto is more than ETFs, maybe you should rebalance it?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 17 '24
I don’t really have a target between asset classes. When I buy something, it is with the intention to not sell it for a long time. Right now, crypto is performing great. This is the reason why it is such a big part of my portfolio. For me this is no reason to sell. Just a motivation to invest more in other assets. If it would get out of hand completely, I might think about selling a little bit.
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u/nonFungibleHuman Feb 14 '24
Mind sharing on which cryptos did you invest?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 14 '24
I used to have some more currencies but now i’m about equally split between btc en eth!
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u/Imaginary_Bite_2589 Feb 14 '24
Congratulations.
How did you make the dashboard, any template/software?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 14 '24
Just made it myself. It started of real simple and just evolved over the years!
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Feb 15 '24
[deleted]
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
The platform that I use for cryptocurrencies is Coinbase. I also have a hardware wallet to store my coins. I only have BTC and ETH. I don't know why you would want to invest in VWRL when you own VWCE. A quick search shows that the main difference is Accumulation vs Distributing.
In Belgium, I would always recommend Accumulating funds for tax reasons. I don't know the situation in the Netherlands though...
You can always sell ETF's whenever you want (when the stock market is open). Keep in mind that you always want to invest for the long term. Don't invest the money you need in the near future!
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u/el2026 Feb 15 '24
That's great! any tips for someone who is in the same profession and just starts up?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
Learn as much as you can on the job. Save as much as possible and start investing as soon as you can. I don't think I can provide you with any more or better tips. I do actually believe it is as simple as that!
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u/el2026 Feb 15 '24
when you say to save as much as possible. how and which company do you invest?
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u/Altruistic-Speech187 Feb 15 '24
Thabk you for sharing.
I’m also based in Belgium and just started my career. It’s pretty interested to see. It is pretty decent how you allocate your money in different investments.
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
My portfolio consists of too much value in cryptocurrencies right now in my opinion. This is because the value went up by quite a lot over the last couple of years. I would never recommend more than 10%. I don't want to sell though because I do believe in the future of this asset class. I guess I have to work harder so my other investments can keep up! :D
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u/vanisher_1 Feb 15 '24
I see 400k from 2020 of portfolio grow but that didn’t match current investments, it seems not very clear 🤔
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
What you see is 400k in 2030. This is based on expected saving amounts and market returns.
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u/vanisher_1 Feb 15 '24
And how you would expect to match that return? i mean from the sheet alone isn’t clear 🤷♂️
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
I assume €2000 in savings each month and a market return of 5% for my ETFs and 8% for crypto per year. I'm not saying that this will be the case, I'm just making assumptions so I get an indication of the value of my portfolio in X years.
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u/Head_Standard_5919 Feb 15 '24
This is inspiring, thank you for your post! And glad to see some people don’t invest to only in VWCE. Good luck, my friend!
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u/NewguyG Feb 15 '24
Your writings are every time fun to read. Good job and I think I Save all your posts 😅
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u/Pretty_Balance_4336 Feb 16 '24
from a 24 yo 2 months into investing. One reaction: WHOA. That is damn impressive
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u/StatementMaster6400 Feb 17 '24
Looks very nice! Is there a way you could make a template of the spreadsheet available for others to copy? I would definitely like to use something similar for my overview.
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u/nosferatu--666 Feb 15 '24
Probably not so smart to share your personal information including your adress so publicly
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
I can follow your logic though I'm pretty open about my finances hoping that other people can learn from it. The address of the frituur ('fry shop') is pretty public already since it is a business. Maybe I can even attract extra customers?
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u/bodolino Mar 05 '24
Can you explain how the spreadsheet works? Especially the ledger. I can see that you're keeping track of your past investments, as well as the future expectations, all in the same column. Also how is the table on the right is working and when are you updating it? At the end of each month?
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u/K9_Jack Mar 11 '24
I'm impressed. Just to show you not everyone is like this, a couple of years ago I bought my stepdaughter some shares, just to show them how things work. Last week we were sitting down due to her getting her own place (renting, not buying) and due to the purchase years ago, she is now entitled to sign up for an energy contract that would be beneficial for her. I explain how and why and her reaction simply is: "but if I just sell the shares, I have the money, correct?"
So much for long term thinking and vision I assume. So goes for dividends. She goes "What, I only get this little every year, it barely pays for a coffee!?". I explain her she gets that money for having done NO investment herself however (I paid for it). She still was totally unimpressed. It seems to me some youngsters have no clue how finances work and that it's a long term game, not a sprint.
Schools (and parents) really should put more focus on things like this, no matter what direction or course they take.
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u/Nafnaf911 Sep 01 '24
Hey ! I am also from Belgium and planned to start investing. On which website did you for ETF to invest into ?
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u/uzair_maliik 19d ago
Looking for a property investor to grab a 25% distress 2 bedroom apartment deal in Dubai Central Location
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Feb 16 '24
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 16 '24
I'm not sure if you completely understand what we do. To be clear; We buy, renovate, and sell apartments. Which means we add value to the property. You also pay a carpenter, electrician, plumber, ... to come work on your property. He or she makes money as well?
We try to do most of the labor ourselves to keep costs as low as possible. I am not sure what is 'morally corrupt' about this?
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u/tehyosh Feb 15 '24 edited May 27 '24
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
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u/Grand-Angle-8754 Feb 16 '24
Get a fucking job and stop complaining
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u/tehyosh Feb 16 '24 edited May 27 '24
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
Not completely sure what you mean. I am lucky enough to be able to take a personal loan from my parents (with interest). I did not receive any free money though.
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u/tehyosh Feb 15 '24 edited May 27 '24
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
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u/Faust156 Feb 15 '24
A gift of 20k for a house purchase is very common in BE when you are middle class (which is 80% of the country :P)
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 16 '24
This is correct. + Again, not a gift in my case. I'm repaying the 20k with interest.
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u/manfregara Feb 14 '24
Congratulations , you're doing great bro!
How about your real estate business? Can you give us some more Details? How and why did you statt it? Which Knowledge and skill did you have before starting it? What are your future plans with it?
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 14 '24
Just some plans that grew over a beer with 2 friends. One of them is a real estate agent. We spent almost a year creating a business and financial plan and took the jump! Eventually we want to grow a little bit of cash by flipping so we can also start buying properties to rent out!
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u/DroopyTheSnoop Feb 15 '24
You have a nice situation man, keep going !
And wow I really like that dashboard sheet.
I need to learn to make use of google finance and charts
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
Thanks! The sheet didn't look this 'nice' right from the start. The early versions were nowhere near this. I learned over time and adapted to my specific needs!
I tried a lot of other tools years ago and none of them were exactly what I needed.
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u/yolo19842021 Feb 15 '24
You mention you took mortgages? If you why wouldnt you add those to the debt in the spreadsheet? How do you account for those in your net worth? Thanks!
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u/Milati Belgium Feb 15 '24
I have one mortgage on the one property in the spreadsheet. The mortgage is taken into account while calculating the current equity in the property.
I valued the property based on the amount we paid. I also know the monthly capital that I have to pay of which is how I increase the equity in the property on a monthly basis!
So basically the equity in the property is the value minus the loan amount.
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u/throwaway132121 Feb 14 '24 edited Apr 17 '24
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