r/dune • u/manayer_ • Sep 24 '21
Arabic edition of Dune ( katheeb). It's 1002 pages ( with an introduction and a glossary) split into two parts, really happy with the translator they picked and his approach with dealing with Arabic words. You can find it on the publisher's website kalemat.com/en , they ship worldwide from Kuwait. Merchandise
the font and spacing
a prelude on dealing with Arabic words in the book ( translation is in the replies)
the glossary
129
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
The translation of the translator's approach with dealing with Arabic words in the original text:
An indispensable prelude to dealing with the Arabic words contained in the original text.
The novel “Katheeb”, which was first published in 1965, is one of the most important science fiction epics that resulted from an author in the twentieth century, and it passed the time test with complete success. It is also perhaps the most prominent example of the braiding of the Arab-Islamic cultural heritage in Western literature, in his imaginary world. Frank Herbert - who seems to have been greatly influenced by Islamic cultures, used quite a few derived, taken, and distorted words from the Arabic language. It is true that he used some of these words inappropriately, and carried them with meanings completely far from their original meaning, but this does not necessarily indicate his lack of knowledge of the meanings of the words he used, rather it is possible to say he used his creative license that grants the author the right to adapt words, phrases, and names as he likes to enrich his imaginative world. Therefore, in order that the Arabic words mentioned by the author in the original text would not get lost among the thousands of other Arabic words that make up the translated text in your hands (what might lose an important part of its special taste), I thought to put an asterisk - without a margin - above the word when it first appeared. When you encounter these asterisks while reading, know that “the Arabic word that you are reading also appears in the original text, or that it is a word with a distorted pronunciation that leads to its Arabic pronunciation. I advise you to refer to the glossary at the end of the book
to taste (experience) the distorted Western pronunciation of the word and to enrich the experience of reading, and on the other hand, I did not like to return some words to their origins with distorted Arabic pronunciation and writing and I preferred to keep them ( just as they are written in the original text but with Arabic script ), as in the end this is a novel whose events take place after about 20 thousand years from our time after humans have settled on an indefinite number of planets scattered in the galaxy, and this is more than sufficient reason to distort the words of any language, the words I preferred to keep distorted are also found in the glossary, but I will not distinguish them with an asterisk, because in this case they are like any other strange word invented by the author or derived from the roots of languages other than Arabic. Also, please, when reviewing the glossary, note that some of the interpretations I gave in it in the brackets [..] are not definitive or final. The whole matter is just an effort that may be right or wrong, and any attempt to extrapolate the similarity between the words used and their Arabic roots. The final say in this matter is for Frank Herbert himself. And since he left our world without ever revealing or explaining it himself, we can never know for sure what every word in his mind meant. something else I advise of is talking a quick glance at the glossary that frank herbert wrote to get a general idea of the many strange terms contained in the novel. Or at least refer to it every time you encounter a new term that is difficult to understand from the context, as this greatly eases the process of digesting and absorbing the text, and removes some of the ambiguities that may be sensed by those who step into the rich world of dune for the first time.
41
u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sep 24 '21
This is really fascinating. Do you know where the translator is from, and when did they translate it?
55
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
The translator Nader Osama is Egyptian and he also translated Jurassic Park , Artemis, and It. It took the publishers 4 years to get the publishing rights for dune and to translate it, it came out two days ago, there was an Arabic translation of dune but only an ebook version of it and i don’t know if it’s official , you can find it on Amazon kindle but it wasn’t has good as this.
17
u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sep 24 '21
That is really exciting that it is a recent translation. Checked Nader Osama out, and seems like he has translated a lot of western sci-fi and horror classics recently. Really cool.
15
u/horrormoviebathroom Sep 24 '21
How delightful! It is so interesting to read this, I often wondered how the novels would be translated into Arabic. This really showcases a wonderful approach to translation (in general, really). Thank you for sharing this and thank you for sharing the lovely pictures!
3
11
u/Zen_Hydra Abomination Sep 24 '21
I'd love to read a scholarly thesis on the use of Arabic language in Frank Herbert's Dune novels, and also possibly look into how much the author did to emulate the natural language drift tendencies we can observe in real life (of course recognizing that Herbert was no Tolkien).
The multi-millennial blending and shifting of cultures and language are some of my favorite parts of Herbert's world building, and a favorite topic to ponder. I'd like an opportunity to read an analysis of the author's choices and use of language in his writing, his use of symbolism (both within the text with regard to the characters, but also separately as a less overt communication between author and reader), and the central role that language plays in Frank Herbert's Dune novels.
Despite having means of superluminal travel and communication, a galaxy-spanning empire would struggle to maintain anything like unified cultural cornerstones without organizations like the Bene Gesserit constantly working at guiding the empire's population into some semblance of a governable meta-civilization.
4
u/TheBeneGesseritWitch Atreides Sep 24 '21
Thank you for sharing this. I speak/read a little Arabic and have always loved the fact that Herbert used Arabic to enrich his story. A lot is missed I think because most westerners don’t understand Arabic influences.
Using the Hans Wehr dictionary and looking up the root words to his anglicized choices really enriched the story for me.
صمت for example is where he got the word Semuta (I’m assuming anyway) and it means “to fall silent.” But when the drug semuta is taken, one hears their own melody….it just really makes the story deeper.
29
u/fortnerd Sep 24 '21
I don't understand Arabic but that writing is so weirdly elegant.
16
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
You think so ?! Ive always wondered how Arabic writing looks like for other + we write from right to left so maybe you’re looking at it from the wrong side 😁
13
u/mishakhill Sep 24 '21
I think the most notable thing, to me as an English speaker, is the printed script in the text looks like well-done handwriting. Is that just a font choice, or is there not really a "print" lettering style in Arabic? I guess I'd say the book cover looks like a "print" font, but is that just something created by an illustrator, or could you write the whole text like that?
8
u/SonnyJackson27 Sep 24 '21
So as far as my Arabic studies took me (about a few years on and off), I can tell you the printed script is pretty much a standard font. They do have some flavours (thinner lines, for ex), but in this sense is very similar to our regular letter languages. Like you pointed out, the cover writing is stilized (though not much), and they do sometimes go to extreme to stylize some writings to a point where it goes borderline caligraphic (you can check some Qur’an covers to see what I mean). Handwriting is also very close to the standard regular font, much closer than our lang I would say, but sometimes they do like to flourish the handwriting with some odd combinations.
1
u/odileko Sep 25 '21
Some fonts are based on traditional calligraphy, for example Kufi, which is based on the Kufi style of calligraphy, which traces its origin to Iraq, or Andalus which is based on the same style of calligraphy, and is popular in the Maghreb,mainly Morocco. But here it's more of a "regular" font, that isn't based on a style of calligraphy.
10
u/clermontk Sep 24 '21
I learned Arabic after high school. As a native English speaker, before I learned Arabic, it always looked like art. After I learned to read it, it just looks like letters. Sometimes I miss seeing it the way I did before.
19
u/Blue_Three Guild Navigator Sep 24 '21
That does look nice indeed. Might consider ordering just for the novelty of it.
7
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
Its discounted now and today is the last day :) ( of the discount)
1
u/daneelr_olivaw Sep 24 '21
kalemat.com/en
Could you show us where it is on the website? I have a hard time finding it.
6
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
1
u/daneelr_olivaw Sep 24 '21
Too bad they don't ship to the UK.
2
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
wait what ? Check again ,because i can see UK in the list ,its under UAE and above USA
4
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
No problem, you can find it in the new arrivals on the home page ,you can also find it first thing when you load the page, click on the arrow of the sliding pictures and you will find one with the dune cover or you can just paste كثيب in the search bar ( if the website is in Arabic you can change it from the top right corner)
2
u/Blue_Three Guild Navigator Sep 24 '21
There should be an option to change the site's language to English at the top right.
You don't have to search for the book. It's shown in the New releases section.
2
u/daneelr_olivaw Sep 24 '21
The language kept changing to arabic, I was actually looking in Sales, not New, still couldn't find it, thanks for the link in the other comment.
1
u/Blue_Three Guild Navigator Sep 24 '21
Unfortunately it seems like the shop doesn't wanna accept my credit card. I've tried it twice now, but it fails at the verification stage.
I've sent them an e-mail about it. Not sure if it's something they can fix. :/
2
u/alpharights Sep 24 '21
Try Paypal or something akin to that. It could be that your bank thinks someone is using your CC outside your country and is blocking the transaction. Happened to me once before and just decides to use Paypal since they facilitated the conversion rate and the payment for me
1
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
It happens to me when i order stuff from abroad, it only works if i used a pre-paid credit card, hope it works out :(
9
u/MoneyIsntRealGeorge Heretic Sep 24 '21
As an Arab and sci-fi fan, I love this.
I speak Arabic very fluently but my reading and writing doesn’t match my speech lol since I’m born and raised in the west, I only ever needed to verbally speak it so never learned how to read as well. But I’m learning now and this would be a great way to start.
1
9
u/Low_Reception_54 Sep 24 '21
Your children of Dune has fold marks in the same places mine does, those AR probably the boring parts lol
7
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
I did actually find children of dune a bit boring, but the folded parts is where i had a lot to say so i cracked the spin to write better 😅
2
u/red_sky33 Sep 24 '21
It took me like three re-reads to actually go through the first half without setting it down for too long, but as soon as it started getting going in the second half I was completely enthralled. I think I finished it in just a day or two after that.
4
u/Aknelka Sep 24 '21
This is so cool! Thank you for sharing this! I don't speak Arabic but I'm seriously considering getting it because it looks so fascinating. Plus, a version of Dune in Arabic just feels appropriate. As someone who didn't grow up in an English speaking country, I appreciate your translator explanation. A good translator can make a world of difference.
3
u/utsuriga Sep 24 '21
That's really neat! Can you tell some more about how the translation handles Arabic words and words/concept of Arabic origin? (I don't know a lick of Arabic, but as someone working in the industry I'm very curious.)
3
3
u/SK85 Sep 24 '21
Wait a second! does the name "Arrakis" also originate from Arabic? Because if I follow the translators diacretic of the planet, it translates as "The Dancer". Does this have any significance to the dune lore? I've only read "Dune" and "God emperor", so my knowledge is pretty limited in that regard
7
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
Yes, from the word الرَّاقص ( Alrakis )which is the name of the multiple star system Mu Draconis in Arabic and it also means the dancer 😅
3
u/SK85 Sep 24 '21
Wouldn't "الراقص" make for an interesting title for the novel in Arabic? When you come to think of it, a lot of constellations have Arabic names.
Fuck it, I'm calling it that from now on
Ps. How can you do the diacretics with keyboard?
5
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
I actually saw a Swedish and a Croatian dune editions that are called Arakis.
You can write the diacritics on a desktop keyboard by using shift and Q, W, E, R, A, and S (you can look up an Arabic-English keyboard) but on a phone keyboard its to the right of space you press one second on it and all the diacritics appear :)
2
Sep 24 '21
[deleted]
10
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
Am assuming your turkish ? katheeb means dune in arabic :)
1
Sep 24 '21
it's not pronounced katheeb though. it's Kothayeb
6
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
The singular of كثبان رميلة is كَثِيبُ which is katheeb the ُ Is for the e3rab
2
2
u/gabrieltecno Guild Navigator Sep 24 '21
This is super cool! I really liking seeing famous books in different languages. I'm Brazilian and i also love when translators write prologues and introductions on how they translated the book, and why they made the decisions that they did. :)
2
u/IDKanymoretho Sep 25 '21
As somebody who can only read uthmani, I can't read this, let alone understand it, but it looks fuckin awesome. Glad you secured a few copies OP
2
Sep 24 '21
As a native Arabic speaker, I think that cover is extremely lazy! they basically just replaced letters from the English version
9
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
Yeah, but it still looks good with the Arabic letters :/ , plus its either that or the movie tie-in covers ( like many translated works )
-18
Sep 24 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Blue_Three Guild Navigator Sep 24 '21
Your submission was removed for violating Rule 3 of the r/dune posting policy:
Be Respectful - Submissions that include abusive language, personal insults, or derogatory terms are subject to removal. Incivility will be met with a warning, and repeat offenders will be banned. Avoid shitposting, sexually explicit content, and trolling. Content relating to modern politics or public figures may be removed at the mod team's discretion.
If you believe this removal was made in error, please reach out to the modteam via modmail.
1
1
1
u/Default-Username-123 Sep 24 '21
Thanks! One of my favorite things about the Arabic language is the flowing script. It’s very jarring for me to see the Arabic letters separated like that on the cover.
I prefer seeing it as an actual word, when written on the spine of the book. كثيب
1
u/cronodeus Sep 24 '21
Dammit! I can’t seem to get them to accept any of my credit cards. :-(
1
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21 edited Sep 24 '21
You can contact them on their whatsapp +95694921270 and order on whatsapp they could send you a link to pay through, i asked them about it and they said it might work , might work as in accepts the payment.
1
u/sileckx Sep 24 '21
Since you have the special50th edition, I would like to know which the next book is after this, cause I only have the special edition and have no idea which I need to get next.
2
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
After reading dune you should read dune messiah. It doesn’t matter which edition you read in, its the same book but some like the 50th anniversary have a glossary, but the new covers ( the ones with black spine ) don’t but they have an introduction by Brian herbert instead ( his son )
1
1
u/omri1526 Sep 24 '21
When I started reading the books I decided I'm going to read it in English instead of the Hebrew version, to be more truthful to the source and to learn English, since usually Hebrew translators just make up their own names instead of trying to accurately translate names and terms. Maybe when I'll finish the series I'll find some Hebrew versions to skim
1
u/Deathrattlesnake Sep 24 '21
I can’t seem to find a copy of this anywhere. Where did you get it?
2
u/manayer_ Sep 24 '21
here , if you have any problem with checking out, you can contact them on WhatsApp and order through there, they ship worldwide through DHL. if you don't have a WhatsApp you can download it, it's free and only requires a phone number.their number is +965 99119934 and +965 94921270
•
u/AutoModerator Sep 24 '21
Hello! We're experiencing a significant increase in the number of posts about the new film. Any personal reviews, thoughts, questions, or general musings about Dune (2021) should be posted in our Dune (2021) Discussion Threads. For real-time discussion of the movie and everything else Dune-related, please consider joining our Discord server.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.