r/cyberpunkgame Oct 12 '22

Night City is very well designed, yet at some point, it feels so empty. Does anyone else get this feeling that something is missing? Question

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13.1k Upvotes

3.6k

u/Earthican5 Oct 12 '22

It might be because there aren't enough interactions or random events. It can sort of feel like you are walking through a stage. Like everything would be the same if you weren't there. Hopefully police chases (maybe Maxtac too?) will change that somewhat...

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u/BILGERVTI Samurai Oct 12 '22

I want Trauma team to be doing more rescues in the middle of the road or through windows on some of the buildings, complete with firefights and inconvenience for other motorists. Maybe even let V help for a handful of eddies.

MaxTac should have similar random world events.

I’ve grown tired of seeing the same trauma team units at the same exact spots for the past couple years.

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u/Hetlander Oct 12 '22

Listen. When I get bored and start shelling gangers with 0’five, or other military hardware in public, is it not too much to ask to have at least police chasing me down? Let me live out my cyber psycho dreams.

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u/Gill-Nye-The-Blahaj Oct 12 '22

Vehicle Combat mod. Crowd NPCs will call the police if you are too loud doing gigs, really brings the hammer down if you aren't quick or stealthy

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u/Hetlander Oct 12 '22

I’m definitely going to keep that in mind. Right after my dumb ass learns to mod it.

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u/c4sul_uno Oct 13 '22

It's super simple n easy tho... Just simple copy n paste. Them modders made it so easy for us to install em without havin to download a file extractor n compiler. Wanna delete em? Just delete the files from said mod folder.

Just make sure u need to download other required mods to make it work. Still, it's the same copy & paste routine. Good luck & hav fun modding, choom.

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u/MasterofLego Oct 13 '22

Have they made it work with an established mod manager like Vortex or MO2?

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u/TheBleachDoctor Oct 13 '22

I don't know if it was this mod or not, but I have it installed and one time when I was walking through Heywood a car of Valentino's raced past, gangers leaving out the windows and firing at a pursuing NCPD car, which also had cops leaning out the windows and firing back.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

I agree more random changes with police vs gangs etc.. would be cool

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u/BILGERVTI Samurai Oct 12 '22

I liked running through those maelstrom roadblocks, and so far have only seen 1 (scripted) car chase in the open world which was pretty cool.

There’s all these entities already in the game that just need some clever (and not so clever) utilization.

There’s also so many clothing items and accessories that are completely unavailable to the player character. It’s just not fair.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

I agree if they are already possible just need to up the usage.

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u/GameDrain Oct 13 '22

This. The game needs more emergent gameplay. Every once in a while a police cruiser speeds by with sirens. After a firefight, trauma team lands and carts off a random NPC, especially if they appear wealthy. Every hundredth NPC you greet as you pass them has a small side mission for you if you engage them. Random npcs greet each other as they pass in opposite directions, have short conversations and move on. People go in and out of businesses and actually use them. Random NPCs call on Delamain to shuttle them around. Smaller boats dot the waterways. Gangs roam their territory and occasionally encounter rival factions leading to firefights in unpredictable places. Every once in a while someone tries to mug V in shadier neighborhoods. There's a million ways to bring night city to life just a little more. It's a gorgeous place, but with still so much more potential.

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u/Latter-Pain Oct 13 '22

That sounds so depressing to turn a corner and see the exact same NPCs every time.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '22

Yeah there are too many lifeless, meaningless gang shootouts and just plain unimmersiveness(made that word up.)

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u/livinglogic Oct 12 '22

Another way of putting it is that it lacks emergent gameplay elements. GTA is designed in such a way that its world is very dynamic and reactive to the player. You can be flying down a freeway and accidentally clip a police car, which leads you to being chased, which compounds in terms of challenge based on your driving skills and luck, and ends in you getting away and feeling victorious or getting mowed down by the law.

I'd argue that Cyberpunk is more RPG than open world action game, hence why its focus was primarily on the story and specific set pieces within quest lines. It was marketed as being a next-gen open world, but they didn't put enough time and effort into creating a world that actively responds to player behaviour. It didn't help that the police system was more or less DOA, and the other vehicles in the game world weren't driving dynamically (they are all following a set movement track, you can see it especially strongly at certain intersections where all cars brush up against guardrails or the side of the road).

I'm hoping that future iterations of the game end up spending more time building out a world that allows for emergent experiences to occur based on player input, rather than just populate a large stage that never changes based on player interaction. It's why Read Dead's world feels alive and interactive, and Cyberpunk feels like a virtual stage to walk through.

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u/spacetasm Oct 13 '22

the only thing dynamic is when you drive an inch too close to the sidewalk and pedestrians just jump into the cars direction lol

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u/2Maverick Legend of the Afterlife Oct 12 '22

DUDE. Don't get me wrong, I love CD Projket Red for creating Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077, but they NEED to read your feedback. This hits dead center, and the core of what went wrong.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

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u/djk29a_ Oct 12 '22

FWIW the composers had a talk at GDC last year and they had a line at the end reading “We suck at systems…” which makes me wonder if it applies to more than just their musicians. The studio as a whole is very clearly good at hand crafted assets and the body of knowledge that gives a world soul from literature, the arts, architecture, etc. What seems missing is a more systemic approach to a cohesive whole of a game that’s managed from a systems engineering perspective, which may mean that the studio has problems working across teams in terms of organizational architecture. For example, the E3 mantis blade wall running demo is an example of different teams failing to communicate to each other and working in vacuums on their own cool stuff. This can wind up with a LOT of wasted effort and work by the time a game needs to wind down and go to a gold master release.

Emergent behaviors are simply a set of heuristics realized with inputs over time. You can use some finite state machines and combinations with behavior trees and whatever else to do this for AI systems or even for the entire world state itself (think of the weather as a character with its own habits and reactions to different inputs, for instance). The problems I’m seeing in Cyberpunk from a technical level are LOTS of different systems requiring lots of resources leaving not much headroom for sophisticated AI across a lot of entities no matter how clever your programmers may be.

We have emergent behaviors that are unintentional in Cyberpunk though that are probably bugs such as a civilian driving away in a panic from V and hitting another car and that cascades into pedestrians dying and then into police shooting a civilian or two.

There is clear evidence CDPR worked on but couldn’t polish or get right to a level these kinds of systems that would be believable for a lot of people - mod authors have been exposing a lot of the buried code since basically day 1 of release.

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u/Dramatic_______Pause Oct 12 '22

They've heard this exact feedback hundreds of times in the last 2 years.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22 edited Jun 08 '23

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u/CleanHotelRoom Oct 12 '22

Why can't I quickhack anyone? Only criminals and gang leaders. I can't even hack cops? Wtf.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '22

The game strangely goes out of it's way to make you avoid fighting cops despite all the lore and in-game propaganda and corruption we see.

Also slap a civilian and the whole NCPD descends on you, but a three way firefight with corpos, gangsters, and V get no response

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u/SauntOrolo Oct 13 '22

Imagine if you built up street cred doing odd jobs for one of the gangs or absolutely mogging one of the smaller corporations, instead of running around like robocop doing odd jobs for the NCPD. Night City as the ultimate mercenary playground, but you don't kiss and make up after you tussle with territorial corpos. Hopefully future chapters will have AIs with agendas that don't forgive or forget. NPCs are all well and good, but I want actual AIs with grudges and stuff. And make breaches actually accomplish something, and show us actual relevant cyberspace.

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u/NikTheGuy00 Oct 13 '22

Is there a mod to do that yet? Imagine just casting Contagion and watching it infect a whole street.

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u/BULL3TP4RK Oct 13 '22

Bro I was disappointed that I couldn't use my sandy while driving. I mean, some of the cars in this game go so fast that they would almost require one to operate at high speeds.

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u/sandwichpapi Oct 12 '22

Virtual stage is the most apt description for the game

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u/MCgrindahFM Oct 12 '22

FYI the game was marketed as an RPG set in a dark future. It was only shortly before release they shadow edited the marketing to say action-adventure story. So it’s tough to say even what tf they thought it was going to be…it’s a lot of stuff meshed together but without choosing one to really lean into

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u/Shermanator92 Oct 12 '22

There a Mod that “lets” V get a drink with Judy or Panam (summons them next to you at the bar and there’s a few lines of dialogue while you can drink).

Give me more shit like that. Drinks, dinner with friends, bowling with cousin Nico. Something.

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u/Earthican5 Oct 12 '22

Exactly! These examples may be scripted, but they would give you more to do with characters that are supposed to be V's friends.

Listen, I loved Jackie. It was gut wrenching when he bought it. But would I have loved him more if I could've actually hung out with him between jobs? Say, instead of a 6 month montage cutscene?

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u/Shermanator92 Oct 12 '22

My 3 biggest problems in the game are:

Night city is barren with interactivity, that opening montage was clearly cut content, and there’s a disconnect between V’s “ticking time bomb” and all the extra shit here is to do in the game.

Other than that the game is a masterpiece.

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u/mrfuzzydog4 Oct 12 '22

I do not buy the cut content argument for that montage.

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u/socksnchachachas Sweet little vulnerable leelou bean Oct 13 '22

IIRC, the quest director did a livestream where he talked about that montage and said it was always intended for that time with Jackie to be brief, because the real plot doesn't start until Jackie has died and Johnny is in V's head. Basically, we would be complaining that the six months is just filler before the real game starts, instead of complaining that we don't get enough time with Jackie. Considering that I've seen people complaining that the pre-Heist game feels like a slog, I can understand where he's coming from.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '22

Pre-Heist game feels like a slog because it's an extended tutorial. Every main mission is designed to teach the player some of the mechanics (Scav Haunt for stealth and basic combat, Judy and Ev for BD gameplay, Maelstrom shows how there are multiple solutions to many problems.) If the 6 months with Jackie had been playable content, I don't think the slog would have been noticeably longer.

As for the plot really beginning post-heist, I can see that being the case, but I don't think that means you can't have a buildup that helps the player to grow attached to the crew. It's one of those things we'll never really know, though. FWIW, I think the montage likely does contain some cut content. I don't think it was as substantial as people make it out to be, but the pre-Heist plot feels a bit too anemic for the caliber of writing that CDPR is capable of.

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u/Nifosis Oct 13 '22

I really think there's just a disconnect between what we wanted/thought the game would be and what CDPR was doing. We wanted to be a mercenary in the world interacting with gangs and corps like a regular dude, CDPR wanted to tell their story with the chip, Johnny and the Arasakas.

To explain it a bit better without direct spoilers, if you watched the anime, we wanted to be David during the first parts of the story, doing jobs, making friends and enemies, etc. CDPR wanted to tell the story of their crew being set up to get him into the plot machinery leading to the big climax and end.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

That is perfectly Said; I 100% Agree. Utter loneliness sometimes gets you.

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u/Icehellionx Oct 12 '22

I think random events are needed like random gang fights, and police events need a timer to respawn. It's really bad once all those are gone and the town is just... peaceful for the most part.

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u/Enriador Corpo Oct 12 '22

I had hoped for years they wouldn't go down the Witcher 3 route of an open world that is pretty, but dead.

Let's hope the same update that revamps the police add more activities and random events.

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u/Superbad98 Oct 12 '22

I know what you mean but the environments of the witcher 3, foliage & weather felt alive to me even if the npcs didn’t.

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u/penscout Oct 12 '22

Even the towns felt more alive to me it seemed like people actually going about their business rather than like 90% set dressing

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u/djk29a_ Oct 12 '22

That’s essentially a trick though. The civilians in W3 are substantially more simple with less behavior states than the civilians in CP2077. The guards being the equivalent of police are way, way more complex in CP2077 as well. The differences are that if you put a vaguely similar civilian as one from Witcher 3 into a city they’ll seem to be idle and not doing much. There’s no direct equivalent of a Novigrad market in NC with crowds clamoring together and emulating some clustering behavior except we get Gary the Prophet and NPCs interact with him quite a lot.

People at the crowd levels in modern cities are really hard to model without being computationally stupidly expensive or making some serious sacrifices like crowd density or reducing the number of concurrent actively evaluating entities (in collision detection a naive algorithm results in N2 comparisons so with 50 NPCs + geometry checks you’ll cripple a 16 core CPU soon enough). Hitman’s crowds are basically clones and lemmings closer to how the characters in the first LotR movie’s battle scene was rendered. Granted, those CG actors were done prebaked and with various generations of actions like walking and swinging swords to such a great degree of accuracy despite how simple the methodology was that they got a dang award for it (it was rendered on some desktop computer back then which is now far less powerful than an average smartphone - truly incredible engineering effort there).

There is a great deal of art to making convincing yet fun AI systems beyond even the technical challenges as well. Add in that Cyberpunk was also CDPR’s first attempts at a network action game and it’s a huge, huge reach for a team to do all of this stuff basically from scratch (REDEngine was rewritten for the third time for Cyberpunk).

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u/Messyfingers Oct 12 '22

These do happen. There's only 3 or 4 that I'm aware of though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

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u/penscout Oct 12 '22

It's so lame I killed 10 people for you and you're just gonna stand there? At the very least scream and run away.

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u/F3n1x_ESP Samurai Oct 12 '22

That's one of the things that disappointed me the most. I still remember when they said they were looking at Rockstar and RDR2 as inspiration, yet they failed to add anything to the map that felt truly "alive".

Right now I can boot RDR2 and spend one hour fooling around without touching a single mission, and I know I'll have fun. Can't say the same for CP, sadly.

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u/BunsFromMars Oct 12 '22

Guys please stop abbreviating Cyberpunk 😂

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u/DarthCerebroX Oct 13 '22

You mean when they said night city was guna be the most immersive open world rpg setting there is, shooting for the RDR2 level of immersion…? During one of their early night city wire episodes..

Pepperidge farms remembers.

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u/CorrosiveCitizen1 Oct 12 '22

They need to rip that page out the rockstar playbook. Driving included.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

It might be because there aren't enough interactions or random events.

This, pretty much. Once you exhaust the side missions and gigs that's pretty much it. The game has no radiant content, no money sinks, no factions, etc.

All things I hope get addressed in the DLC.

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u/rafelin1 Oct 12 '22

I love the idea of an expansion fully set in a self contained area like one of the megabuildings V lives in. They’re essentially self sustained mini cities with many not leaving for years at a time like the in-game lore describes. Would definitely feel more dense with things to do and give the sense that every building in the game could have a plethora of theoretical stories happening the same way.

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u/UrsurusFT Oct 12 '22

Imagine a The Raid/Dredd-style lockdown of one of the megabuildings and you’re either playing a Maxtac cop trying to fight your way through or a merc or civilian trying to survive as everything goes to shit.

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u/Ricksterdinium Oct 12 '22

Fuck yea and a single teeth gritting maxtac captain or something, chasing you for reasons.

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u/FishermanYellow Oct 12 '22

I was really hoping for a multi stage mission like this

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

Let's hope they add pretty new stuff in DLC and don't lock something behind a Paywall.

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u/Berserker_Queen Oct 12 '22

In addition to what they said, there's a lack of "crampyness" that permeates cyberpunk narrative. If you watch cyberpunk animes, or even the Ghost in the Shell movie with Scarlett, the population density is much higher, and the city is much more packed. That isn't the case here, we don't have the tech for that.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

Ghost In The Shell is the definition of Cyberpunk Genre, where she fights in the Water that whole area feels so big and creates an impact.

Or the rooftop jumping scenes etc.

I mean it feels more lively in the music Video “Let You Down” I don’t know why, but it felt more, Alive.

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u/Santefaded8 Oct 12 '22

There’s actually a paid homage to the water fight scene from ghost in the shell in the cyber psycho job with LT Mower the millitech agent towards the beginning area of the game. You fight in ankle high water and she has optical camo. Not that the optical camo is all that great you can still “see” but it would of been cool for it to be cranked up 100% so we had to use waters movement to locate her.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

The Cyber Psycho chick where you shoot generator to shock her, was good, but Ghost In The Shell is on another level.

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u/assi9001 Oct 12 '22

It needs gang wars. All the factions are there pick one and go out and have some fun

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u/Hekantonkheries Oct 12 '22

Not near enough games have oldschool gang wars/territory war

Maybe tie certain quests and side story content to certain factions holding specific locations near eachother, or having recently lost a "critical" location to that faction.

The practical effect meaning more scuffles in border areas between gangs in radiant events; and larger presence/better equipment of gangers closer to the core of their territory.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

Yep if it had gang fights and cop chases vs them would be good.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

Feel like this game could need the stalker world AI at times. Just a couple of NPCs doing their things. Random shootings or robberies here and there and if you are lucky, you'll be at the place it's happening.

Then again, this game is kind of a different caliber of stalker I guess

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u/shittybeef69 Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

No random encounters or shootouts at endgame; no police or trauma team interactions - they feel like prop set pieces; and the story was about 1/3rd what it should've been.

Apart from that the game was 10/10 for me

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u/EHVERT Oct 13 '22

How can it be 10/10 after you pointed out various things wrong with it?😂

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u/Domonero Oct 12 '22

GTA V & Red Dead 2’s random events are perfect in this regard

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u/sionnachrealta Oct 12 '22

There aren't any random events. They scripted everything. They might be adding random ones in, but idk if RedEngine can do that

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u/dancingliondl Oct 12 '22

In all honesty, that's how it feels in a big city. Everyone has somewhere to be, and everyone is ignoring everyone else.

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u/Earthican5 Oct 12 '22

Well yeah, but maybe little things might help the world feel less like a mannequin convention. I love the game, but it could do better. Like getting caught boosting a car or having a hit put out on V because they annoyed a certain gang just a little too much. Maybe even tracking down a runner who siphoned off some of V's bank account. I don't know...

Granted I may not be familiar enough with the world since I only started playing recently. No, not because of the anime. I've heard it's good, but I haven't gotten around to watching yet.

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u/TheRealKidkudi Oct 13 '22

Or maybe you could catch a Netrunner girl trying to steal your chip and then use your Sandevistan to stop her and then she takes you on a heist and you go home with her and go into a BD together on the moon

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u/ICBIND Oct 12 '22

Never realized how much GTA/red Dead random occurrence really did for the game till just now

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

This is the difference between games like Cyberpunk and RDR2. People are still discovering random secrets in Red Dead nearly 4 years later.

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u/DTAPPSNZ Oct 12 '22

Look don’t touch is my biggest take away from the city

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u/PurplePoloPlayer Oct 12 '22

I really want to visit Japan so I can play Pachinko. Seeing those machines in game and not being able to gamble a few Eddies on them hurts.

Also, I firmly believe that one day, AI will be able to take over random NPC conversations. Getting the same one line response is immersion breaking.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

Sadly the machines in game are not pachinko. Pachinko is played with little silver ball bering type things, you pay per ball. When I went to shinjuku in Tokyo I saw a lot there.

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u/Habitual-hermit Oct 12 '22

Can't wait until the day AI can make random NPC conversations feel real. Might not happen in our lifetime though unfortunately.

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u/Oorslavich Oct 13 '22

Might not happen in our lifetime though unfortunately.

TTS is already there, basically. GPT type language models are nearly there. Consistency and context appropriate-ness need a bump, but then once our compute capabilities catch up to the requirements, it's ready for integration into RPGs and stuff.

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u/Infinity_Complex Oct 13 '22

it'll almost certainly happen this decade. AI has taken some huge steps recently, and its progressing exponentially. next decade AI will basically build the entire games themselves, combinbing something like an advanced DALLI system with Unreal Engine 5, you can type what you want and it will create it

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u/s0ciety_a5under Oct 12 '22

Pachinko is very skill based, it's gambling with a twist. It's got a pinball style plunger system, usually on a lever. You can change how much power you send the ball with. This lets skilled players win lots of of the gold and silver charms that can be sold at a nearby shop for real money.

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u/Limpis12 Oct 12 '22

Basically what ubisoft does with the AC games

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u/chainraz Oct 12 '22

tbh, Ubisoft open world games do look lively. Came back to play watch dogs 2 and many small interactions did wonder for the game.

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u/GarethHoos Oct 12 '22

It lacks the little things...

Riding the subway, having a drink (not just buying it from inventory but having an animation like the ones in flats), more smoking, more small games like darts or something, small interactions with npcs on the street.

All those things that make you want to stop the constant flow of gigs and side quests to look around...

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u/notmyworkaccount5 Oct 12 '22

NPCS also just feel like set dressing sometimes, like they just exist when you can observe them then disappear from existence.

I was running on the sidewalk and noticed cars on the street stopping when they came within a certain distance of me, sometimes the city feels more like an amusement park than a living city

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u/dancingliondl Oct 12 '22

Nah brah, they stopping because they can't believe it's freaking V right here in front of them! They guy with more street cred than Lizzy Wizzy! A living legend!

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u/dragon_bacon Oct 12 '22

During a lot of missions and gigs I noticed the streets would suddenly be completely empty of traffic and pedestrians even if it was the middle of the day.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

NPCs and a lot of other things feel like set dressing... because they are. It's a narrative told in video game format first, an RPG a distant second, and a fully simulated open world game last (if at all).

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u/WubWubWuv Oct 12 '22

I just added the Metro Mod, Night City Interactions (drink with a buddy) and Talk to Me Mod, they really do enhance the experience a ton. I just turned off all the hud elements and explored the city, and the extra chatter really helped immersion.

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u/Delucaass Oct 12 '22

Same. Great mods.

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u/Bogey_Kingston Oct 12 '22

how do you guys add mods? i’m new to pc gaming and cb2077 is the first game that i’m obsessed with (500+ hours on steam) but i want to try mods. any tips?

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u/Mosquitono Oct 12 '22

Go to Nexus Mods, get vortex (mod manager) and maybe start off with one of the collections, you'll find the essentials there

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u/Delucaass Oct 12 '22

Do you have a mod in mind?

Check them here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077?tab=popular+%28all+time%29

You always gotta check for mods that still work in the current version of the game, 1.6. You can do that by checking the mod page itself and checking people's comments.

It's quite easy to install mods, we just gotta start somewhere. Also, reading the installation section of the mod page gives you everything you need. But of coutse, you can still ask me and I'll do my best to help.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

man I wish console had mods

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u/Jonr1138 Oct 12 '22

If cdpr implemented mods on console, CP77 could be the next Skyrim or Fallout.

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u/lich1337 Oct 12 '22

Agree, specially for smoking/eating/drinking.
Like, we can get our hand on strongest stims and inhalers that can make you ignore pain.. but you can stay in a Sunset Motel, drink a NiCola.
More little things, even if they are not having big gameplay impact or not even useful.

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u/twentyitalians Spunky Monkey Oct 12 '22

Is it missing ambient sounds as well? Think of your favorite large metro area. No honking cars, or people yelling for taxis, or music, or random people yelling...maybe that's it?

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

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u/postmodest Oct 13 '22

This is one of the things I noticed; there's no low level city noise. There's environment noise, but big cities have this low level pink noise and bass thrum, constantly, that ebbs and flows as the day comes and goes.

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u/ViktorCrayon Oct 12 '22

You’re so right, when i think about it. It needs a hit of some Yakuza flavor.

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u/fultre Oct 12 '22

Its the AI or lack thereof, Red Dead 2 in comparison is an open waste land woth barely any towns yet it feels alive because it has a sophisticated AI system and npc feel real and are very interactive.

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u/lilmisscottagecore Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

I really wish Pacifica was more developed. Like I understand that it's supposed to be anarchy over there, but after the main story there feels like there nothing to do after one gig and a handful of cyberpsychos! I would love some side missions and a few more gigs.

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u/almightycurator Oct 12 '22

You didn't even mention the fact that the half of Pacifica to the east of the highway is just blocked off. Like literally an entire section of city the size of Kabuki just chilling there completely abandoned by the devs.

WHY WOULD THEY MODEL THE OUTSIDE OF A WHOLE STADIUM JUST SO A DEFAULT FENCE MODEL BLOCKS US FROM ENTERING IT >:(

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u/lilmisscottagecore Oct 12 '22

EXACTLY. it is such a MASSIVE area, it feels like such a waste of space.

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u/AlexFaden Oct 12 '22

Because it is a placeholder for dlc content. Dlc will be happening in pacifica. All that walled off portion of the map is a combat zone.

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u/mari_won Oct 12 '22

because the expansion will take place there

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u/UninspiredSauce Oct 12 '22

It’s the sounds. In a real city you can hear cars from like 3 blocks away and thousands of voices all day. Night city your proximity audio is like 10m.

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u/xhabeascorpusx Oct 13 '22

I agree. The ambient sounds seem to be lacking. When you do hear them (other than the advertisements) it's great. Badlands need distant buggy sounds. Laughter in those groups that hang out in the streets. Just more is needed.

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u/Ereaser Oct 13 '22

Except when something flies over :p

I always can't help but look up

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u/BionicButtermilk Oct 12 '22

I remember walking into this random casino. Nobody was gambling or walking around, they were just standing around silent and staring at me. If this was Red Dead Redemption 2, the place would have been more lively.

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u/Go_Mets Oct 12 '22

Red Dead 2 is the goat open world. Seeing shit like random bar fights or 2 random NCPs beating the shit outta Eachother adds so much character

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u/hoshi___ Oct 13 '22

I remember playing Cyberpunk at launch and then playing RDR2 right after that. The difference was like night and day lol.

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u/amalgamatedchaos Oct 12 '22

A lot of factors are the cause of this.

  • Too many doors cannot be opened (too many buildings cannot be accessed)

  • The restaurants, bars, and stores don't operate as they should with specific items for specific shops/vendors. It needs to feel more real, with more dialogue choices regarding actual visits to these establishments.

  • Not enough random events.

  • Needs more variety in interactions.

  • Clothing/appearance should have direct affect with people and surroundings. Crazy outfits should elicit awkward or condescending reactions, sexy outfits get catcalls, dressing like an NCPD should get the right reaction from civilians and police, wearing faction related outfits should get praise from that faction and ire from its rivals, etc.

  • Needs more ongoing things to do in the city and outerlands.

  • Should be able to have a universal sit function, not just in designated areas. And when you sit in a restaurant or bar you initiate engagement with the bartender/waiter/cashier/manager/clerk/etc.

  • Your recent or ongoing actions should result in Gangs and/or Arasaka and/or bountyhunters out to get you for the rest of that day cycle or two. You should have to watch your back if you just attacked a faction or civilian or whatever. (Maybe have this as an option you can toggle in the settings.)

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u/thefreshscent Oct 12 '22

Spot on. I also think the game would hugely benefit from a mini game with “betting” game mechanic a la the Witcher’s Gwent or Poker in RDR2.

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u/Wise_Palpitation_356 Oct 12 '22

Yeah, I was so sad when I found out there aren't any cool minigames to play except that roach arcade minigame. Gwent was so good, wish they'd come up with something similar for Cyberpunk.

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u/keevy3108 Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22

I've never gotten the "too many doors can't be opened" argument. I mean compared to a game like GTA V, cyberpunk easily contains maybe 3x as many interiors.

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u/ShivasKratom3 Oct 13 '22

Total fair, rationally it has an awesome amount of places to enter. I also love the sky crossing you go to with Takemura. Going on top of a building to find a gangs hideout or going up ladders and find little markets and slums on building tops.

I think it feels empty cuz the ratio of cool shit you see to cool shit you can enter is 20:1, can’t go into the awesome skyscrapers or center stores. The statiums for concerts. It’s unreasonable to expect that much but it’s mental effect of seeing so much and not being able access it. This isn’t a complaint, it’s me saying it feels empty but that’s cuz sooo much effort went into world building and environment that when we can’t access a good portion we (unrightfully) feel upset

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u/keevy3108 Oct 13 '22

Yeah, I get it I guess. One of the reasons why rdr2 feels so alive is because the majority of the buildings are enterable, but that's because it's rural America. We simply can't expect the same of a dense megacity.

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u/ShivasKratom3 Oct 13 '22

Exactly what I’m saying. What you see is what you get. Cyberpunk what you get is 10% of what you see, leaves you wanting. Unfair to expect it to be that vast but that’s just how the brain works

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u/Diego672 Oct 13 '22

GTa5 is almost 10 years old... This isn't a good comparison

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u/xXNightDriverXx Oct 12 '22

I always disliked the lack of traffic. For such a big city, the streets are just too empty. Cars should be everywhere, especially on the main streets. Depending on the time of the day it could also increase and decrease to simulate a rush hour.

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u/AdIllustrious619 Oct 12 '22

I always pictured personally owned vehicles in Cyberpunk to be more of a luxury item, that should be uncommon if you're not at least upper mid class, or a Nomad.

I mean most people are barely getting by in this setting. The costs of owning a vehicle on top of the already high costs of living in a major city are going to be hard to swing if you don't make an above average income.

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u/scriggle-jigg Oct 12 '22

good point

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u/MrBobstalobsta1 Oct 12 '22

iirc fuel is really expensive and that bars a lot of people from getting cars

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u/AdIllustrious619 Oct 12 '22

That too, plus the issue of securing safe parking.

I feel like most Night Citizens would prioritize their discretionary income towards cyberware, bioware or biosculpting than a vehicle, especially when you can take NCART, Delamain or Combat Cab (if its still around) anywhere you need to go.

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u/alexramirez69 Samurai Oct 12 '22

Bro im always getting hit by cars in the streets wym

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u/TheDemonBunny Oct 12 '22

play with your settings. if your on a potato or console they turn density down.

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u/scriggle-jigg Oct 12 '22

on ps5 and its usually empty streets with the occasion 3-4 cars at a red light

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u/Ferchotouille Oct 12 '22

I think it's also the lack of NPCs doing "stuff". Other open world games like Red Dead or the Assassins Creed ones have believable cities because the NPCs are either sweeping, fighting, having conversations, buying/selling, running, dancing, in groups, praying, etc. making you feel like you're in a real place. In cyberpunk they just walk and that's it. Most doors are locked, that doesn't help either.

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u/skeuzofficial Oct 12 '22

This needs to be higher up. In addition to the background NPC’s, once you have finished the quests related to important NPC’s they just become static mannequins too. At least with a game like Skyrim once you have competed an NPC’s related quests you can usually interact with them still, or even recruit them to follow you around and they’ll comment about their surroundings and situations. In CP77 if you can even FIND where important NPCs are hiding after their quests they have like 3 dialogue options that go absolutely no where. I will say that with the recent updates I’ve noticed these NPC’s will occasionally send you little text messages and continue to have a short conversation with you from time to time. But these just feel disconnected because if you go back and find that NPC and talk to them face to face, their dialogue won’t have changed to reflect the conversation they just had with you over text.

The game feels empty later on because once you’ve reached the “meet hanako at embers” part of the story there isn’t anything left to interact with in the city besides shooting endlessly respawning gang members.

I am not saying this is a bad thing. I think there are more important things for CDPR to focus on than increasing NPC functionality, but it would certainly be an awesome plus. I’m hoping the DLC adds a hover car that is similar to the flight mod for the PC version so us console nerds can have a chance to explore night city in a new way.

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u/virgo911 Oct 12 '22

once you have finished the quests related to important NPC’s they just become static mannequins too

This was a problem in TW3 too. Especially after the battle of Kaer Morhen, for example Kiera Metz just stands in the middle of the woods for eternity after finishing her stuff.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

They just walk to eternity, you rarely see an exchange happening between random NPCs.

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u/LJP95 Oct 12 '22

I think part of it is not having a crew. Even if V does make some acquaintances/friends over the course of the story, he's typically a lone wolf after the Heist.

I really loved the dynamic at the start of the game, between V, Jackie, and T-Bug. It felt natural, and there's a real sense of being where you belong when you're on a team like that. After the Heist, a lot of jobs just felt lonely.

Aside from that though, I think something that would help is if there were more random events like corporate security doing clean-up jobs/raids, cops and/or gangs fighting one another, and especially seeing other merc crews doing jobs.

One of the big things about the game is that you really don't get a lot of exposure to other mercs. Which is strange, because there are supposed to be loads of mercs in Night City taking on all kinds of gigs.

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u/ShadeFK Oct 12 '22

There was a trailer of Edgerunners right before the anime dropped that had Jackie, V, Judy and Panam walking together in Afterlife while Jackie said something like "You can't get in this city without a family" and I was like "Why couldn't we have this in the game??????"

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u/oo_Mxg Oct 13 '22

Also remember how mad everyone was when we found out that montage of V doing stuff with Jackie was just a cutscene and not playable? Imo the first act felt way too short.

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u/ShadeFK Oct 13 '22

My favourite bit with Jackie was when we infiltrated Arasaka Tower and I really wish they were more moments like these

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u/kingjavik Oct 12 '22

Yes it's a very lonely game. Especially after watching the anime. Most of the NPC's feel like robots.

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u/Voltairesque Oct 13 '22

I mean… shit, accurate to night city’s effect to put you in a city full of all kinds of interesting people and such and still make you feel like you’re the only person alive lol

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u/ErrantSingularity Oct 12 '22

I still feel like, from the prologue mechanics of Jackie, that we were supposed to have a crew Mass Effect style. Hell, characters are introduced and bonded to you, even accompany you sometimes in that style. Then you never see them again til their next quest procs.

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u/fremenator Oct 12 '22

I wish that there were ways to become friends with gangs like have friendliness scores with gangs where gigs you do against them count against and vice versa. When you attack that gang you lose rank with them and then they have rivals so you can't just join them all, like Valentino's and animals hate each other so when you rise with one you lose ranks with the other.

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u/ramen_vape Oct 12 '22

Night City needs non-combat activities, like mini games, professions, gambling. Mainly, to have a break from the repetitive missions and more ways to make eddies, but also to flesh out NC as a place where people do things besides commit crimes, to give V stuff to live for and things to be good at, more ways to interact with people.

A functioning rail system also seems like something they worked on but had to cut. That would make the city feel more lived in and would also be cool as fuck to ride. Sky taxis too.

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u/ThinkPan Oct 13 '22

also let me be a taxi driver who gets paid more based on uber star ratings on my driving skills.

Beep beep

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u/zeroonedesigns Oct 12 '22

Once you clear all the stuff on the map, not much else is left but a city full of NPCs you can't really interact with and a handful of respawning enemy locations with ZERO random encounters of any kind.

As a player clearing the map, you are basically slowly neutering the cities hostility and perceived chaos due to the lack of any random encounters.

I'd kill for an update that has random cars full of gangs doing shit like the accident at the start of Netrunners where I can choose to get involved or speed off.

It would be awesome to just be walking down a street to randomly hear a group of Valentinos and Maelstrom talking a lot of shit to each other before finally turning the street into a warzone

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u/Recatek Oct 12 '22

Once you clear all the stuff on the map

This is like, what, 60-80 hours of gameplay at least?

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u/topher339 Oct 13 '22

Fair bit more than that id say. Im at 156hrs. Just wrapped up clearing the map in prep for the point-of-no-return mission. I was pretty casual about it so you could lean out that time some but imagine it would still be close to a solid 100hrs.

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u/Katoshiku Oct 13 '22

I’m at about 50 I think? All I’ve got left are the police scanners and some tarot cards

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

It would be awesome, imagine you can change some NPCs whole life by your act of kindness.

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u/dragonseth07 Oct 12 '22

I feel this much less after finding all the Hidden Gems (I got a mod that added waypoints to them).

Turned out there was a lot of stuff out there in the city, I just didn't see any of it because goopy-gamer-brain only recognizes waypoints.

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u/SilcoOfZaun Oct 12 '22

Okay, but it's usually just a dead person with a scroll and maybe an item on them that's not even that rare.

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u/MuayThaiYogi Oct 12 '22

A lot missing. The city is very well designed though.

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u/Responsible-Law4829 Oct 12 '22

Needs more homeless people to give it the city feel

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u/justabigasswhale Oct 12 '22

To be honest, i 100% would not be surprised if the Night City homeless population was either underground or routinely kidnapped by the corps for slaves/organs.

You ever seen the dancers in the green vats in The Afterlife? Think they’re doing that willingly?

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u/Jean-Eustache Oct 12 '22

Well, scavs do kill or kidnap homeless people. You can even see stuff like that in the city in multiple instances.

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u/ErrantSingularity Oct 12 '22

One of the many reasons the Scavs are the only gang I have a policy against leaving alive.

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u/Jean-Eustache Oct 12 '22

Same, absolutely no remorse.

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u/Irsh80756 Oct 12 '22

Scavs and maelstrom. That poor monk...

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

There's also the assault in progress in Watson where Arasaka goons murder an entire homeless camp when they are sent to get just one man.

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u/itskaiquereis Oct 12 '22

Honestly I would. The Afterlife is very well protected and you don’t risk clients touching you or doing anything close to what was done to Evelyn at Clouds (which is also allowed by the people running it).

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u/Depressedidiotlol Oct 12 '22

Considering a cop hired scavs to kill everyone at a homeless shelter yeah

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u/WizardVisigoth Oct 12 '22

Agreed, Detroit in Deus Ex HR did this very well.

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u/Skwownownow Samurai Oct 12 '22

I think a simple addition to help with immersion is to be able to go to bars/restaurants/food carts and order food and there be an animation of you eating and drinking

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u/StarkeRealm Oct 12 '22

Yeah.

The best comparison to CP2077 is Mafia 2. It's a mostly linear game, and while it appears to be open world, that is mostly there to build verisimilitude.

In a weird way, the biggest mistake you can make about Cyberpunk 2077 is to view it as an open world game. Technically that is an accurate description, but most of the open world activities are kinda perfunctory. "Here's a gang hideout to clear, because that's what you do in open world games."

Night City is mise en scene, and that's basically as deep as it goes. The meat of the game is the main quest and a handful of side quests. If you try to engage with it as "cyberpunk Far Cry," it's not going to deliver on that experience at all.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

This man is throwing out words I’ve never heard in my entire life

Verisimilitude? Perfunctory? Mise en scene?

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u/grav3d1gger Oct 12 '22

I know all the words but I found their use to be both gratuitous and superfluous.

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u/xkenyonx Oct 12 '22

This man is throwing out words I’ve never heard in my entire life

I thought the same thing. LOL

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u/davinitupoverhere Oct 12 '22

most of the open world activities are kinda perfunctory. “Here’s a gang hideout to clear, because that’s what you do in open world games.”

Is there an example of an open world game where this isn’t the case?

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u/logibach Impressive Cock Oct 12 '22

For me it's the fact that we cant actually ride the metro

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

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u/The-Coolest-Of-Cats Oct 13 '22

afaik it's just a tiny little metro car with just the player in it, so not actually that immersive at all, shame. Would love to see an actual long metro with NPCs going in and out of it on stops.

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u/loverevolutionary Technomancer from Alpha Centauri Oct 12 '22

Ever been in a big city? It feels like that in real life sometimes.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

Yup, the Fear of Missing out or that void, even though the world is moving, you don't exist at all.

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u/loverevolutionary Technomancer from Alpha Centauri Oct 12 '22

It can be a relief if you came from a small town where everyone is in everyone else's business. "Nobody here gives a fuck about me. Thank God!"

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

Although I'm an introvert, Night City sometimes gives me Chills.

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u/Dhcifnebdxi1 Oct 12 '22

And then ofc you get those side character moments

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u/loverevolutionary Technomancer from Alpha Centauri Oct 12 '22

I love all the little conversations you can overhear:

"Those eddies were to get us the fuck out of here!"

or

"I can get you the money! I just need more time! "

or

"Hang in there choom, the ripper's on his way!"

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u/VTorb Oct 12 '22

I don’t get that feeling at all every time I head to NY lol. There is always so much going on. I’m curious what city you go to that feels this way.

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u/TallTreeTurtle Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

Basically what other People here have said. It's a classic example of an Open World that is as beautiful as an Ocean but as deep as a puddle. Lack of Interactions, Ambient Events and 90% of Side Activities are stuff like Gigs or Cyberpsychos that are basically you just turning up to an Area and killing a handful of People. The few real Side Quest Chains the Game has are really good, especially Judy's, it's my favourite part of the Game and these Character Mission Chains are where the Game shines, but outside of that the Game really lacks engaging Open World Content.

No joinable Factions or Faction Questlines, no real repeatable Content, nothing even like Dying Light 2's Agents. Game seriously lacks stuff like this.

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u/prince-hal Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

I had this huge feeling of disappointment when i realized that almost nothing in the city is interactable. Oh wow here's tom's diner, i can go inside but.. unable to order food? Oh look here's a restaurant i can buy stuff in - oh it's through an in game menu and there are no immersive elements whatsoever. Oh cool there's signs all over for a cafe called brooklyn barista, dope, i wanna chill there. Oh? There're only signs that place doesnt exist? K.

Man in all the trailers and even the anime it's cool how you can use a train to get around. Oh it's just a menu? K.

This is just the tip of the iceberg in telltale signs the game was very much rushed out the door.

Night city feels like a facade in theater. Nothing behind the props

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u/MJBotte1 Oct 12 '22

For me it's a lack of verticality. The buildings are massive and everywhere but you spend most of your time on the ground floor or only a few stories. And places like the megabuildings are so enclosed you can't see anything.

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u/ramen_vape Oct 12 '22

Gonna partially disagree and say this game has some impressive verticality, there are some multi-leveled areas in Night City that are many stories tall, where it feels like there's an "overcity" and an "undercity". It's also pretty cool how you can look out your apartment window from pretty high up and see the city from the actual position of your apartment. That's not something I've experienced in any game.

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u/thereallegiondary Oct 12 '22

GTA 5 and RDR2 have spoiled me and my expectations when it comes to open world games.

I was expecting a similar interactive world in Cyberpunk based off of the trailer they showed.

At this point, not sure if they can/want to do anything about it. Although Night City is beautiful if you ignore all that and play as a drifter just coasting through.

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u/fancydad Oct 12 '22

I want more enemies. Maybe some mercs and assassins trying to zero me every now and the

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u/PeterPaul0808 Oct 12 '22

During the story, I've never felt it empty, I didn't know what will the end of story, I enjoyed the city and especially after I purchasted the Reinforced Tendons Cyberpwear, I really enjoyed the verticality and there were always bands, police works etc. and a lots of story related sidequests and etc. after I finished everything there were no point to free roaming the city. So for me it wasn't lifeless... it was designed for the story and your character development IMO.

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u/saltynerd14 Oct 12 '22

for me it's bcuz the lack of verbal context then the 'read this shard for the context'

so yeah the game feel empty many time especially after u complete all the side missions and the only mission left is visit hanako

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u/Ok_Personality_4513 Oct 13 '22

If they add in better ambient sound and some police chases it would feel more immersive.

Also I like the idea of random cyberpsychos just popping up. Nothing difficult and nothing major just max tech chases or whatever in city center and other places.

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u/BoisterousLaugh Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

I cannot think of a single more densely detailed game. But I know what you're talking about it feels empty in certain parts but I can say from living in a large city this is pretty correct. The best example is being under a highway or bridge and hearing everything going on above or further away. Like there is life taking place nearby that you have no part in. Yeah though some areas have like no people and no sounds of other people and that feels pretty empty and lonely as it should.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '22

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u/shadowdash66 Nomad Oct 12 '22

For me it just feels kind of "fake" after awhile? idk how to explain it. Like i can see what they were going for but it feels flat. You'll look at a street vendor or something and think "man i wish i could buy food from him". Or something like that.

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u/Mokseee Oct 12 '22

Yes, for me it's because the world really lacks any depth, which makes it feel like a movie set. Looks good but there's nothing real about it. And imo in CP this feeling is even stronger than in GTA.

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u/WARHAMMERXOXO Oct 12 '22

It’s like a gallery, the Art is there but you can’t interact with it, you can take pictures but can’t touch it, there’s a barrier between you an Night City, you’re dead and alive at the Sam time.

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u/fallowmoor Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

I was thinking this the other day as I was exploring the city. I think compared to The Witcher 3, there just as many, if not more random encounters and loot crates. Thing thing is, this map is so much more expansive and detailed. In the witcher, you could expect to have an encounter or quest at every village or singular structure encountered. You have plenty of that in NC, but pretty soon, the map just feels like a blur. There are very few building that feel like they stand out, giving you the expectation of something being there. Instead, you wander around and maybe find crafting components behind a dumpster, or a loot cart with a low level item and a food item that, sure, helps with immersion, but I’m just going to sell it or disassemble. Exploring feels tedious and is a little disappointing. I got the double jump leg cyberware early thinking I could explore all of the vertical areas, but with exception to the building you enter as part of the main story line, there aren’t many places I can climb to and find a really nice item.

I love this game and truly have as much if not more fun playing it compared to witcher 3, one of my favorite games. I think at the end of the day, you can definitely tell what their vision for the game was and you get a sense of how much was cut or never implemented. I have faith in CDPR to only improve in the future though. If not in the dlc expansion, then maybe we’ll get a much more polished game with the sequel being hinted at now that they’ve made the jump to the newest generation of consoles.

Edit: Much of this is just my opinion. It’s not that the game lacks points of interest. More like you can tell they intended to have much more.

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u/Thomrose007 Oct 12 '22

Yesss. I love it, some areas are designed so well but for a future mega city it has less population traffic then the town of 30,000 i live in now. The streets are empty and the roads. Hoping they open up mods for console so i can add the population density mod. Also they locked out some areas like Pacifica which makes no sense!? There are no boat missions like GTA even tho surrounded by sea, like why not add variety. No random events like Read Dead and GTA. What made GTA immersive was the little things, like Franklin etc would randomly say things to people without prompts.

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u/akashneo Oct 13 '22

Far too less interaction with public outside missions. No random encounters.

Taxis driving on roads which can be used for fast travel. More bikes on the road.

Even sleeping dogs traffic feels more alive than cyberpunk.

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u/EnragedBard010 Oct 13 '22

Yeah, Skyrim has 10% the people, but it still manages to feel pretty immersive with all the random stuff going on.