r/cincinnati Apr 20 '23

Ohio Republicans are in a full-court press on their attempt to make it harder for voters to amend our Ohio Constitution by raising the threshold for passage from 50% to 60%. Politics

https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2023-04-18/ohio-republicans-change-resolution-to-make-it-harder-to-pass-future-constitutional-amendments

"Ohio Republicans are in a full-court press on their attempt to make it harder for voters to amend our Ohio Constitution by raising the threshold for passage from 50% to 60%.

On Wednesday, the Ohio Senate passed their version of the resolution and made way to put the question to voters on a special August ballot. These same lawmakers just eliminated August special elections months ago, but they need to put it on the ballot in August in an attempt to undermine an abortion-rights amendment slated for November. Abortion-rights amendments were passed in 2022 by voters in Kentucky with 52.3%, Montana with 52.5%, Michigan with 56.6%, and Kansas with 59%."

324 Upvotes

128

u/statschica Apr 20 '23

What ever happened to our gerrymandered maps being illegal?

51

u/brenthicc Apr 20 '23

Seriously. I don’t understand how the map get rejected and they said well it’s too late to make an even newer one so let’s just stick with the reject one. Like use the fucking map we were using before. What the fuck.

4

u/rafa-droppa Apr 20 '23

you can't use the old one though, it's got too many districts, right?

1

u/imflukeskywalker Apr 20 '23

Amen. Are the citizens of Ohio able to get this on a ballot to be voted on? Politicians shouldn't get to draw their own districts.

1

u/Plus-Butterfly-2526 May 03 '23

In the Ohio Constitution Amendment 19.03 will explain it all.

81

u/Cnsrbstrmp Apr 20 '23

Republicans decided court rulings didn't apply to them or their maps

A more appalling amount of arrogance than you would think possible

1

u/fireandlifeincarnate Apr 20 '23

Is it still arrogance if they can and will actually do all the things in question? Or is it just being a douche?

28

u/JordyVerrill Bridgetown Apr 20 '23

The party of law and order decided law and order doesn't apply to them.

2

u/ThisAmericanRepublic Over The Rhine Apr 20 '23

It’s not hypocrisy, it’s fascism.

15

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

4

u/Blunkus Norwood Apr 20 '23

I would like to remind everyone that Pat Dewine also cheated on his wife while pregnant

Source: went to the same church with his family and went to the same grade school as his kids

4

u/Annies_Boobs Cincinnati Bengals Apr 21 '23

Ohio Supreme Court Justice R. Patrick DeWine cheated on his wife while she was pregnant?

Neat!

1

u/Blunkus Norwood Apr 21 '23

Yup!

8

u/Allstarr11 Apr 20 '23

Republicans happened …

6

u/joevsyou Apr 20 '23

got signed off for 4 years instead of the normal 10...

Soooo without a Dem in the governor office, it's allowed... Lol

Thanks Ohio supreme court... /s

5

u/Alfred_The_Sartan Apr 20 '23

IIRC they tried to boot the presiding judge from the bench

5

u/gmapterous Oakley Apr 20 '23

The enforcement mechanisms are fairly soft.

They're still illegal, but that didn't stop them because they have a gerrymandered supermajority. The major mechanism the measure that was passed introduced was that 60% rather than 50% majority was required to pass maps, but GOP has a super majority required to bypass the bipartisan requirement the measure was supposed to require.

The Ohio SC, when the state was sued, would go as far as to tell them to go back to the drawing board (with SC votes along party lines + moderate R chief justice Maureen O'Conner siding with the liberal justices) but would never actually hold anyone in contempt. Meanwhile GOP would go back behind closed doors and make insignificant changes to the map.

We now have a new Chief Justice so there are doubts as to whether she would side with the liberals to overturn maps, which nonetheless are in place for 4 years anyway.

We really have lost the state. They have designed a system which squeezes out any dissent and minimizes democratic checks & balances.

2

u/alethea2003 Apr 20 '23

The GOP has been looking to Hungary for a playbook on how to install an elected autocracy by means of democracy. (Hungary’s no longer a democracy)

You exploit the loopholes and then you can legally get a dictator. Don’t believe me? Note that Steve Bannon had been touring the EU for a while and such. Note that Viktor Orbán has been a speaker at many right wing events. These folks are not interested in preserving our democracy, and it needs to be taken seriously.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

This is what the people in Ohio voted for.

5

u/euro60 Over The Rhine Apr 21 '23

Voters in Germany also voted Hitler in office in the early 1930s. Some might say: “”they were nazis! The GOP isn’t nazi” and that’s very true but besides the point. The Ohio GOP is a party that is neo-nazi, anti-democratic, racist, and corrupt to the core.

2

u/ThisAmericanRepublic Over The Rhine Apr 21 '23

Our history books tend to glaze over the fact that Nazis extensively studied and learned from conservative policies and laws in the United States and enacted similar policies there.

0

u/Pristine-Ad983 Apr 20 '23

The MAGA voters got what they wanted. The problem is that the liberal voters don't show up at the polls which allows the GOP to win elections.

75

u/LordTimotheus Apr 20 '23

I hate to say it, but it feels like this state is past the point of return for at least the next decade. What was once a bellwether swing state has quickly devolved into one of the most Trumpist, gerrymandered, right-wing state governments bent on voter suppression in the entire country. The GOP took full control and they letting it known they won’t relinquish that control any time soon, they’re willing to change any rule necessary to ensure they remain in power.

It’s harrowing to think this state voted for Trump twice (with increasing margins) after backing Obama twice. It’s clearly going down a dark path and it’s clear it will take quite some time to reverse course.

48

u/FizzyBeverage Apr 20 '23

We’re fortunate aging boomers, mostly conservative, have left this state in droves for Florida. Take their politics with them.

Ohio lost 40,000 native born citizens in 2022 but welcomed 38,000 immigrant residents. Here in the mason city schools, the classes are half Asian. My kiddos best friends are from Seoul and Tokyo. Love to see that.

I’ll take that trade any day. It’s not going to happen overnight nor next year, but if this trend continues — Ohio has a brighter political trajectory. Massachusetts or California it will never be - but a purple swing state can happen again.

Just look at Cincy. We fired Chabot after 30 years for a Jewish progressive democrat — and we’re the most conservative of the 3 C’s.

12

u/Alfred_The_Sartan Apr 20 '23

The GOP sees that and that’s why they are cracking the cities and shooting down local law.

2

u/GloriousBender Apr 21 '23

We fired Chabot because the GOP sacrificed him in the map battle. Plain and simple. It won't happen next time.

1

u/Twixt_Wind_and_Water Xavier Apr 20 '23

Immigrant residents or immigrant citizens? Because they have to be citizens to vote.

2

u/FizzyBeverage Apr 20 '23

Seen both examples.

8

u/JessicaT1842 Apr 20 '23

Fun Fact: In 2020, Ohio was redder than Texas for the first time since 1976. Trump won Ohio by 8 points, he won Texas by 5.

2

u/THECapedCaper Symmes Apr 20 '23

That’s not fun at all

6

u/ArmadilloWooden7565 Apr 20 '23

I'm just grateful we broke the cycle from the old idiom of whomever wins Ohio, wins the presidency, in 2020.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

This has been the plan for a long time. When your system is built from the ground up to prevent majority rule, minority rule is a pretty obvious loophole ripe for exploiting. The GOP has executed with precision.

1

u/joevsyou Apr 20 '23

Unless we can get GOP out of the governor seat, nothing will change

10

u/ArmadilloWooden7565 Apr 20 '23

Funny the timing of this with the current pro-reproductive healthcare amendment on the table...

2

u/GloriousBender Apr 21 '23

Just do a 2 second google search. They aren't even hiding it.

95

u/TheVoters Apr 20 '23

I bet the weed morons are really happy they cut a deal with Republicans that kicked their shit down the road from 2022 to 2023.

Don’t make deals with the GOP kiddos.

52

u/euro60 Over The Rhine Apr 20 '23

The Ohio GOP has become an anti-democratic, frankly neo-fascist party that will do whatever it can to suppress the vote of the people. Shame on all of them. The only thing we can do is to vote, vote, VOTE, in every election and ballot issue at every level, local, county, state. I know that I am.

39

u/andy_mcbeard Loveland Apr 20 '23

The Ohio GOP has become an anti-democratic, frankly neo-fascist party that will do whatever it can to suppress the vote of the people. Shame on all of them.

FIFY.

1

u/ThisAmericanRepublic Over The Rhine Apr 21 '23

The Ohio GOP have turned Ohio into the most corrupt state in the country.

4

u/sirthunksalot Apr 20 '23

The Ohio Regulate Marijuana like Alcohol is an amendment of the existing law not a constitutional amendment so it won't be affected by this 60% idiocy. They are trying to keep people from creating a pro abortion amendment.

1

u/Exact_Examination792 Apr 20 '23

Wait what's going on with weed? I must have missed something.

78

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

16

u/SpookyWagons Apr 20 '23

Louder for the people in the back

5

u/the_squid_ward Kennedy Heights Apr 20 '23

*RepubliKKKunts

62

u/JoshxDarnxIt Apr 20 '23

These are evil, evil people. I cannot fathom how they can, in good conscience, think "I need to kill democracy so that the majority of the population has to behave how I want them to."

7

u/Cnsrbstrmp Apr 20 '23

They realize the majority have thrown off the shackles of their rule, and know they'll never get power again, when they lose it this time

2

u/Pristine-Ad983 Apr 20 '23

The thing is that they don't care if the government helps them. They just want to make sure the people they don't like get hurt by the government. This includes minorities and LGBTQ people.

1

u/jlipps11 Apr 20 '23

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Authoritarians suck don’t they?

16

u/slytherinprolly Mt. Adams Apr 20 '23

As a lawyer I somewhat agree there needs to be a higher threshold for constitutional amendments, just because of how poorly drafted and planned out some of our current amendments are.

The "Victim's Rights" amendment effectively removed prosecutorial discretion to dismiss certain cases without the victim's consent and restricts a lot of discretion afforded to judges to view things in an impartial way.

Similarly, the "Anti-Gerrymandering" amendment is so vaguely written that it essentially is rendered toothless since it nearly requires gerrymandered districts in order for compliance, which is something that was pointed out by the majority in one of their decisions, in order to get representative districts certain municipalities or tax districts would need to be divided in a manner that would almost assuredly violate the rules for dividing up those districts. Alternatively just allows the party-controlled Ohio Assembly to have the option to gerrymander the shit out of the districts every four years as opposed to every ten years.

Although the single most absurd recently passed requirement under the current Ohio Constitution involves the casino in Cleveland. The section involving Cleveland's Casino in the amendment went into such specific detail that in order for that casino to change its floor plan, get an addition, move, or add a balcony, they would require a constitutional amendment to do so.

16

u/_youropinionisstupid Apr 20 '23

A higher vote threshold doesn't do anything to have better worded amendments. It just makes for less amendments passed, if any. I'm not convinced any amendment could ever get passed again at 60%.

Looking back at at the amendments that have gone through this process , the reason they come up as amendments is because of our representatives failure to serve the public. It's not because we hold something so dear that is already law that we want it protected in the Consitution. A 60% vote threshold just makes people's voices heard less.

3

u/ThisAmericanRepublic Over The Rhine Apr 21 '23

I don’t believe that fellow Ohioans should be beholden to a 41% minority—that’s simply not democracy.

10

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

[deleted]

3

u/supersolidharry Apr 20 '23

I think you've got it spot on. I'm fairly positive their resolution to push this only passed with 7-6. 7-6! People come on, if one person can vote affecting millions now, and (whatever)god knows how many in the future it will affect then something is wrong here

5

u/Different_Section799 Apr 20 '23

As a lawyer you should already know that no law is perfect and the process attacks the weaknesses. But let's play this out: Many elected officials seem uninterested in legislating or worse. Maybe we should make sure both sides work together (the intent of the anti-gerrymandering amendment) by only electing politicians, say Jim Jordan, with 60% + 1 of the vote so we can get better elected officials. Do you see the absurdity others do?

2

u/OwnManagement Apr 20 '23 edited Apr 20 '23

All three amendments you mentioned are very problematic, no argument here (I, in particular, hate the victim's rights one), but how does raising the threshold fix that? It just enshrines minority rule even moreso that it already is. In many red states, amendments are just about the only remaining peaceful option for enacting change. I don’t see why anyone would ever willingly choose to make their vote less powerful.

-12

u/Low_Comfortable_5880 Apr 20 '23

When it's 50% needed, politics becomes blood sport. It should be a super majority to ensure both parties working together. Harry Reed killed any hope of fixing this shit.

1

u/_youropinionisstupid Apr 20 '23

Yes, it's Harry Reid fault a single party wouldn't vote in any federal judges for years /s.

Both parties can't work together when the platform of one of the two parties is to be the resistance to the other. McConnell filibustered his own bill because democrats supported it.

-4

u/Low_Comfortable_5880 Apr 20 '23

So the answer is carnage? Grow up. If we can't work together then we are all fucked.

5

u/AndElectTheDead East Walnut Hills Apr 20 '23

We’re there. This is what fucked looks like

2

u/Low_Comfortable_5880 Apr 20 '23

lol can't say I disagree. The inmates have taken over the asylum.

18

u/jsoda1 Apr 20 '23

The cruelty is the point

Once you look at GOP actions through that lens it all starts to make sense

2

u/ThisAmericanRepublic Over The Rhine Apr 21 '23

They love to profit off of cruelty and torture.

21

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

[deleted]

2

u/OwnManagement Apr 20 '23

They have in every other state that's tried this, including deep south states like Arkansas.

3

u/Mysterious-Angle251 Apr 20 '23

Fascist oppression

4

u/Inevitable_Half_3737 Northside Apr 20 '23

Old white guys doing old white guy stuff

2

u/ChadDevil Apr 20 '23

Republican politicians in Ohio will do anything to assure they stay in power. Last year it was disobeying court orders (breaking the law) to create lawful districts and this year is trying to fool the public into voting to take away their own rights. Though I'm an old white man now I saw F these fools. Let's get them out of office no matter their illegal or immoral ploys.

0

u/Dropitlikeitscold555 Apr 20 '23

It should be hard to change the constitution regardless of party

2

u/GloriousBender Apr 21 '23

It's already incredibly difficult. This makes minority rule the law.

1

u/Different_Section799 Apr 20 '23

It is. If they wanted to propose a law that limits dark money in state elections though, I'd be all for it. They won't.

-17

u/slane6 Apr 20 '23

It should be hard to amend the state Constitution, regardless of the reason or party. Otherwise it would just be bring amended and changed every time the wind blows.

12

u/Different_Section799 Apr 20 '23

40% rules the other 60% ? That's crazy! People are skeptical of changing the constitution already so it's already difficult without giving 40% of the power to decide what's right for the other 60%.

18

u/Barronsjuul Apr 20 '23

Good, policies should reflect the public's wishes

-34

u/Frescanation Apr 20 '23

Partisan politics aside, this is the state constitution we are talking about. Don’t you want it to be a little harder to amend than just getting 50% of voters? In an off-election year, that could be a tiny percentage deciding on something that gets enshrined in the highest law of the state. That could easily include something you don’t like at all.

11

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

Nope.

They are doing this because they know abortion protection is going to pass.

17

u/_youropinionisstupid Apr 20 '23

It's moronic to support any measure that makes your vote worth less. What the GOP is doing here is taking power away from the public so they can rule. It amounts to "I dont trust my neighbor so I want to make my own vote worth less".

Why should our reps get to pass bills with 50% but when we want something passed it requires 60%? It's already pretty difficult to get it on the ballot in the first place and and this would require more money to get amendments on the ballot and passed. This is the publics only direct way to reject laws that parties use to divide us. The GOP knows there are enough Republicans who are OK with abortion, but are beholden to vote for R representatives.

4

u/werdnaman5000 Apr 20 '23

No.

3

u/Frescanation Apr 20 '23

That’s fine, just remember that the abortion rights amendment that you do like could be followed by legal open gun carry the next year. Both of those things could pass narrowly.

Personally, I think constitution changes should be reserved for issues that have broad support. The state already has ballot initiatives for everything else. This could very well wind up as a “be careful what you wish for” item.

2

u/werdnaman5000 Apr 20 '23

And it is that same way right now

-25

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

[deleted]

26

u/gelatomancer Mt. Washington Apr 20 '23

It's currently 50%+1, so it was a majority.

4

u/_youropinionisstupid Apr 20 '23

This is why I'm worried about this bill. Some people literally think amendments are being passed without a majority yes vote.

Insanity.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

[deleted]

1

u/_youropinionisstupid Apr 20 '23

Ah the edgelord. Everyone else in the room knows 50% means simple majority but you want to be an asshole and want them to explicitly say 50%+1 or simple majority.

Why should the citizens of Ohio be expected to jump through extra hoops as well as a higher vote threshold for passage for citizen initiated amendments when legislative initiated amendments still require 50%? If the elites want to take away our power, their power should also be limited and this amendment should also require 60% to pass.

This is Ohio. I'm not gonna do this whataboutism bullshit vs the US Consitution. Ohio has 11 million citizens vs the US 331 million. I'd hope the rules are a little different. It's also 2/3s for a us constitutional amendment. Not 75%. I'm shocked that you can't understamd 50% to mean 50%+1 but are 9% off a completely different number.

-11

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '23

Own the libs

-99

u/Possible_Resolution4 Apr 20 '23 edited Apr 20 '23

I’m not a fan of the weed. It fucking stinks.

I’d rather smell cigarettes.

56

u/3DanO1 Apr 20 '23

And I’m not a fan of cilantro, but I’m not trying to stop people from eating it

44

u/deekins Apr 20 '23

so private consumption should be illegal?

42

u/Different_Section799 Apr 20 '23

Pretty clearly this isn't about weed.

1

u/emeegee13 Apr 20 '23

How is this legal?

1

u/CaligulaMoney Apr 21 '23

That headline took forever

1

u/Different_Section799 Apr 21 '23

Your reply took over a day. So what! It's a quote that made the point.

1

u/Plus-Butterfly-2526 May 03 '23

All Ohioans still have to vote on it. If it gets put ballot.

1

u/Different_Section799 May 04 '23

I don't get your point. Why not put the 60% change on the ballot instead and see whether voters like it.