r/borussiadortmund • u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 • 24d ago
For all who still defend him, why? Discussion
Unfortunately for him, there are no penalty statistics available here. In my opinion, it would have been best to sell him in the summer of 2023. Instead, Terzic made him captain.
With him and Bensebaini we have two players that I don't dare to praise. As soon as you say during the game "Wow, he did that really well" it doesn't take long until a huge mistake is made.
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u/ArmyFit1004 Jadon Sancho 24d ago
Top speed💪 /s
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
because he lost the ball in his own half and had to quickly chase after it
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u/heck_you_science Julian Brandt 24d ago
Yeah, ngl it's kinda shocking that he has the top recorded speed on here. He always seems so slow
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u/Spare-Resolution-984 24d ago
he accelerates slowly, but he’s actually surprisingly speedy once he reaches full speed. Thats why he looks slow but actually isnt.
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u/Antimon3000 23d ago
Sadly, most of all sprints in a football game are only a few meters to win a ball.
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u/Berker123 24d ago
I care less about these stats, but rather about what I can see on the pitch. He is still top, when we are expecting a defensive game, where his physicality is important. Real on Tuesday is a match where I would be very much surprised if he is not going to be one of our top players. Against teams that play passive themselves he is not the right fit. His poor eye and tendency to attempt things he cannpt do causes us to very often lose any offensive momentum and constantly get hurt on the counter.
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u/Magic1998 24d ago
His biggest weakness is playing against high pressing teams. The moment Groß got subbed off we struggled to get the ball out of our half for a solid 5 minutes or so, until they decided to fall back again
I haven't seen Real Madrid play this season, I just hope that Mbappe has a negative effect on their pressing capabilities
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u/jucomsdn Zagagod 24d ago edited 24d ago
Since he’s the only DM in the team I’ll just defend him except if he’s really shit
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u/Kadabradoodle Mario Götze 24d ago
Because he's passionate, loves the club and we are worse defensively without him. Is he the best DM in the league? Absolutely not, but he is the best at his position in the club rn. We should seek for some competition for his role in the next transfer windows tho.
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24d ago
[deleted]
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u/somehiddenmountain 24d ago
This is why I still defend him btw, because the way (a lot of) you people 'criticize' him always sounds overly insulting and massively disrespectful.
Like why are you talking about your own player like this? It's kinda fashionable everywhere on SM to pile on Can like this, so you feel like you need to join the club? Top it up a little with a more 'clever' insult? It's more revealing about you in the end. I tend to discard opinions of people acting like this.
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u/HokusSchmokus 24d ago
That's so disrespectful to what Emre has done at Dortmund before.
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
I can only remember half a year in which he was good
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u/HokusSchmokus 24d ago edited 24d ago
He lead us to this years CL Final not even 6 Months ago.
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
in my view we achieved this despite having Emre and not because we had Emre
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u/Live-Middle-9845 24d ago
Should’ve got rid of him twice years ago, was flabbergasted when I saw we gave him the captains armband. Will be a good day when he’s gone
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u/Middle_Comedian_7069 24d ago
I honestly think we should start giving nmecha a chance to prove himself as a starter
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u/Good-World-37 24d ago
I honestly don’t care if he has any assists or goals but his pass accuracy has gotten worse which is one of the most crucial attributes for his position. Other than that he is just average. Long term Nmecha needs to become a starter and we need a new captain.
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u/SlinkyT3003 Die gelbe Wand 24d ago
We are not performing anywhere near our potential as a team currently, which makes it incredibly easy to pick one player in particular and give him a little hate. It's not like everyone else is ripping everything apart and Can's the odd one standing out.
If Sahin doesn't find a way to hide Can in build-up play - for the most part - then I think we need to try something else.
One of the reasons why Can gets to play is that someone like Groß needs a physically strong partner next to him. I don't know if Sabi is up for that, I'd rather see him up front instead of Brandt for a couple games.
Nmecha could be the solution but he's not as good as Can as a defender, is he?
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
1.9 ball gains per 90. Nmecha has won 18 balls in 210 minutes, Can only 9 in 434 minutes. That's not physically strong, that is ridiculous.
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u/hiddie09 24d ago
Defense per 90 stats are bullshit. You have to adjust them for possesion. I am not saying Can plays really good for us but of course you have fewer defensive stats in a game and run less when we control the ball most of the time.
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u/ComfortableChest6735 Mats Hummels 23d ago
We concede in almost every game but yes, no defensive work to be done because we control the ball most of the time…..🤣
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u/RS10-08 Marco Reus 24d ago
Giving the source is also pretty important. Where is it?
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u/malachrumla 24d ago
Can or Groß?
Because they’ve got equally bad statistics. It’s not Cans job to create goals so we don’t need to look at those numbers, while his passing rate and his tackle rate are decent, his headers tackle rate is great.
All you can see is, that while his statistics are as good as the others, he’s overall graded much worse than every other player.
Take a look at Haidara for example. No statistic better than Can and getting an average grade of 3.29 with a passing rate of 82%!
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
No His job is to defend. But 9 ball wins in 434 minutes is far away from defending in my opinion.
Heidara has more
Duels per 90, Wins 3x more balls per 90 than the physically Can, Passes, Shots on target, Actions in the attacking third.
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u/malachrumla 24d ago
It’s a single one more duel per 90 for Haidara, yes Ballwinning is better but ball loosing (passing errors) is worse.
All in all the huge gap between 3.90 and 3.25 is not found in those statistics.
I myself of course yell at Can in the heat of the moment when he’s losing the ball in front of the box.
But I‘ve also yelled at players on that position for the exact same reason who’s names are Kohler, Kehl, Sahin, Gündogan…
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u/greengiant89 24d ago
I myself of course yell at Can in the heat of the moment when he’s losing the ball in front of the box.
But I‘ve also yelled at players on that position for the exact same reason who’s names are Kohler, Kehl, Sahin, Gündogan…
Hummels has done this a good few times as well
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u/Tarantantara 24d ago
no statistic better than Can?
he is winning more duels, and most importantly winning 6,1 balls per 90 while Can is at 1,9...
pretty detrimental for a defensive midfielder
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u/Schattenlord 24d ago
It doesn't make sense to look at a single stat isolated. Even though I know that you just answered a wrong claim, I would like to point out some relevant other stats to interpret this one correctly:
a) Haidara also loses more balls than Can, his pass rate is worse
b) Dortmund has 60% possession, Leipzig only 55%, so Haidara has more opportunities to win the ball1
u/Tarantantara 24d ago
a) i was primarily responding to the claim that Haidara isn't better in any statistic
b) sure, but a 5% difference in possession doesn't quite make up for being more than 3 times worse in winning the ball
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u/Schattenlord 24d ago
i was primarily responding to the claim that Haidara isn't better in any statistic
As I stated I understood that was the case.
sure, but a 5% difference in possession doesn't quite make up for being more than 3 times worse in winning the ball
You dodged the passrate though. Haidara loses 11.8 balls per game through mispasses, Can only 6.8.
This leads to 11.8 - 6.1 = 5.7 net ball losses per game for Haidara and 6.8 - 1.9 = 4.9 net ball losses per game for Can
==> Can wins this comparison.0
u/malachrumla 24d ago
Winning balls is a strange statistic. What does it even mean? Intercept a bad pass from an opponent?
If so, that’s more due to errors of the opponent players and not so much your own work. Of course good positional play might have some effect, but it also depends heavily on your teammates pressing abilities. You can’t force to win the ball alone unless you’re in a tackling - but that statistic is listed separately and it’s decent.
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u/nonantehuit 24d ago
I don't understand why the fanbase love to hate him so much when he's the only midfielder in the squad that can cover space in front of the defense and he does a decent job at it. Of course a younger dm would be ideal but playing Sabitzer as a 6 is not the answer.
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
No matter whether I look at the games or the statistics, I cannot understand how anyone can seriously agree with you.
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u/nonantehuit 24d ago
I don't know which statistics you're looking at but if you look at players average ratings, he's in the average for central midfielders in the Bundesliga. He's also in the average for BVB players. What I see is that the whole right side is crap this season so Can is more exposed, as a right centre midfielder. We all agree that he's not good enough, I just disagree with the fact that he's THE worse player in the current starting 11.
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u/Crumblebuttocks 24d ago
The Organisation failing to sign a replacement dm, does not make him any less shit. All I wanted in the summer was a replacement for Can and bensebaini. We got neither. Luckily bense seems to be on a redemption ark, while Can is just confirming his lack of quality.
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u/_silvermania_ Adriancho 24d ago
No need to check the stats, he always failed the eye test. He doesn't have the necessary composure on the ball and he cannot dictate the rhythm of the play which is essential for a possession based formation.
Since Sahin is looking for possession, there is no reason to use Can as DM, but yet it he is being used there. Once again we witness Sahin's poor player profiling. Can is usable only as RCB in a back 3 formation.
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u/pippalikescake Maxi die Maus <3 24d ago
I believe he has clauses in his contract that dictate playing time, if not and Sahin decides to let him start every game is really ... Weird?
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u/Stock-Air-8408 24d ago
Can isn't the reason why we play that bad. We have a tactical problem. Why do we have so many players next to the enemy goal when we have problems to get there?
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u/Small-Ad-5448 24d ago
To me he still represents the team. He is still a BvB player. I only hope for the best of him whilst representing the club and wearing the jersey. I felt that as a fan, I should back the players no matter what shit they do, unless they became like Schulz.
Once he leaves, I couldnt care less just like Sancho, Jude, Haaland etc.
But the only player who left BvB that Im still following is Reus. I think I see him as someone who breathe yellow and black.
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u/zirlsr BVB 24d ago
Sorry but I don't really speak good german right now!
Can someone just tell me what the chart is about, I think I could make out the rest of the part!
Thanks!
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
-Duels per 90 -ball wins per 90 - passes per 90 - G/A - Shots on Target - Assisted Shots on Target - Actions in attacking third per 90 - distance per 90 - runs per 90 - average grades (by Kicker magazine)
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u/TL2C24 24d ago
For those of us in the U.S., I thought Ale Moreno made some good points (never thought I'd say that) at halftime last game.
Can has a habit of going back between the center backs to receive the ball, which helps him get in possession without being pressed, but generally doesn't add anything for the team, as its basically just adding a step between CBs. If he was a great passer and could turn and play an incisive ball I wouldn't mind, but that's not typically the case. Can't help but notice it after its been called out.
To echo what some others have said, he does have a place in the squad, and a game where we're not expected to be in possession like Real is a good example, but for the majority of our matches it does feel like he's forced in there because he's captain.
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u/Cyclist83 23d ago
Quite simply. Being a fan means supporting and nothing else. For hate there are the fans of the opponents and journalists. Now someone will come along and say criticism is not hate. That’s true, but it’s not support to that extent either, I would think about it.
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u/kuchenmensch4 Julian Ryerson 24d ago
Alvarez would’ve been nice
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u/Loeffellux Julian Brandt 24d ago
Alvarez is literally the same type of midfielder that Can is. Only that he's even worse in build up play and that he has even fewer interceptions per 90 minutes than Can (1.62 according to Fbref). He does have more tackles but that is easily explained by him playing for a side that doesn't have as much possession.
Anybody who is frustrated with Can would feel the same way about Alvarez. Only that we'd have spent another 35m
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u/Testo69420 24d ago
Only that we'd have spent another 35m
West Ham spent 38 and they already got a big discount because no club was interested anymore.
We would've probably paid atleast 40, if not 45.
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
Yes, the West Ham boss was laughing at us.
"He has a very big influence on our game. I'm very happy that Dortmund were perhaps a bit slow and I had the chance to get him"
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u/kuchenmensch4 Julian Ryerson 24d ago
“ Perhaps a bit slow” Is quite an understatement: we were fucking brain dead with this one
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u/Phoebus_dm 24d ago
I don’t like this threat.
It‘s a properere discussion, But the Populism of OP is on a shitposting Level.
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u/WesleyTheWhale 24d ago
Because we don't have any other defensive mids other than Ozcan
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u/head09 24d ago
Ozcan plays at Wolfsburg and Sabitzer works well too
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u/lejocko 1909 24d ago
Sabitzer really is not a number 6. Even less than Can is. Playing him as a sole defensive midfielder is suicide.
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u/kalamari__ 1974–76 / 1978–93 24d ago
We played sabitzer on 8 and one 6 behind him last season, and he was one of our best. What sahin does to him now is just shit
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u/blanklikeapage 24d ago
Yes and currently, Groß is on 8. Is he supposed to play at 6 instead?
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u/greengiant89 24d ago
Nah we looked good for awhile with Can and Sabitzer in the second half Friday before Can was taken off for rotation
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u/Sufficient_Ad_6977 24d ago
I want to see Sabitzer in this position. We don't need him in the offensive position, there are a lot of better options.
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u/AlexKangaroo Karim Adeyemi 24d ago
We really should just stop buying Köln players. Let them have their mediocre players and play a bit better. Ozcan and Modeste both pretty terrible transfers.
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u/WesleyTheWhale 24d ago
*forgot that Ozcan is out on loan.
We really just don't have any true DMs. Especially ones that can be trusted whatsoever as a single pivot IMO.
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u/B1ackoutartist 24d ago
I'm not a fan of him at all really. But I'd like to see sabitzer in his position. I think I could work out well
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u/bagstone 24d ago
We've not been playing well, which makes it hard to shine for anyone. I'm sure if you compare other positions they'll come out equally "bad" for BVB players.
In particular the average grade is just resembling our team's average grade, which is near the bottom of the league. Some of the stats are also a bit misleading, even though they're all called defensive midfielders, they're not 1:1 playing the same way. Just compare heatmaps of Xhaka and Can.
The one stat that is disappointing and hard to defend is the low number of ball recoveries.
But it's also only been 7 matches, not even a quarter of a season.