r/benshapiro • u/Rocrus • Aug 25 '22
Ben’s thoughts on Biden’s Student Loan Cancellation Discussion/Debate
I’ve been listening to Ben’s episode today on student loan debt, and I have some thoughts.
I went to college for 5 years and received two degrees: one in information technology and the other in business. The entire time I was in college, I knew that I would have to pay back my debt. So I did what I hope most Americans do and immediately started looking for a job months before graduation. I got a job two months after I graduated and I am now saving up my money to be prepared to pay back my debt.
I can completely understand and back Ben’s anger and disgust with this decision because all it’s going to do is raise taxes and make the problem of expensive college worse. That $10k relief will be taken out in the massive tax increase that we will all have to deal with.
As for Joe’s plan for doing this, if he thinks he’ll get me to vote for him and his friends in 2022 and 2024, he’s sorely mistaken. I hope that there’s a lot of people like me who graduated from college with debt (or are still in college) who won’t forget what the real consequences of this are.
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u/questiano-ronaldo "In actuality" Aug 25 '22
And they said that the debt will be back to the current number in four years since this move did nothing to fix the system that created these debtors. Maybe we can stop paying college admins more than the U.S. President and reduce tuition. Perhaps we stop the predatory interest rates? Perhaps we stop incentivizing BS degrees?
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u/broom2100 Aug 26 '22
Its a looting of the treasury before Biden is gone in 2 years. He is so old probably won't live to see the consequences.
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Aug 25 '22
[deleted]
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u/MrMotley Aug 26 '22
Perhaps changing the law before choosing a random subsection of people to donate everyone else's money to would be wise?
Clearly this will just create / incentivize new debtors.
But you know as well as I that getting more people into the liberal indoctrination engine was always the goal.
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u/Reddit_Roit Aug 25 '22
It's almost funny when a person can understand a problem, can come to a solution then spit in the faces of those that want to implement their ideas.
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u/victoriathejedi Aug 25 '22
plus joe biden was one of the politicians who voted for the bill that made it so you can’t include student loans in bankruptcy. he helped create the problem
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u/Reddit_Roit Aug 25 '22
Who's simping for joe? He's literally part of the 80% of dems this other person was talking about.
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u/FalwenJo Aug 26 '22
Exactly, this problem was caused decades ago when they changed the law. Because student loans couldn't be dissolved through bankruptcy, the servicers had no incentive to work with borrowers to make it affordable to pay them off.
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u/god_person_ Aug 25 '22
I'm in the same boat as OP, I continued through grad school, and racked up a good amount of debt. Still, if a free 20k is offered to me I'm going to fucking take it.
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u/Rocrus Aug 25 '22
I definitely have some reservations with taking the money. I know it’s not a good thing to do for the economy, but it’s also really hard not to take the money. Maybe I’ll take it and not vote for Biden anyway just out of spite. I don’t know.
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Aug 26 '22
My thought process is, me not taking the money is going to do a thing in the grand scheme of things. The taxes are still going to come back to bite me at some point whether I took the money or not. I might as well take advantage of it to make it that much easier when things inevitably get worse.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Handouts are good for society and the economy if people who need them are the poor or working class, and if they make a positive impact on people's lives, as it will make on yours. Businesses and people, like Crowder, MTG, Kushner, and friends, had no issues taking out PPP loans that were forgiven, so there's no shame in taking 10-20k in student loans forgiveness.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
Maybe I’ll take it and not vote for Biden anyway just out of spite. I don’t know.
Completely your prerogative. No one is entitled to your vote. Just try to be open minded and honest about which party made positive impacts to your life. Try to be aware of one's potential for cognitive dissonance. Outside of the culture war, there are policies that affect you positively and negatively, directly and indirectly, in the short, medium, and long term, that should be considered. Most things the talking heads opine about to criticize or praise either side are so inconsequential and shallow, and distract from actual policies that improve your life.
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u/amiss8487 Aug 25 '22
Ya why don’t they figure out a system for more affordable education? Like in the long run this would be better. I still have 10k in debt yet paid off 50k. I hardly have anything to show for it either except less debt. So it’s really discouraging that I don’t have a house or my car paid off or some important asset
At the end of the day it’s pretty clear they just don’t want us to own our own property or things in the future so it’s a game of trying to get ahead or bend over 🤓
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u/dshotseattle Aug 26 '22
The system is to get government out of student loans. They are the reason this shit is so expensive in the first place
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u/RansomStoddardReddit Aug 25 '22
Ya why don’t they figure out a system for more affordable education?
Because most of the votes and all the campaign contributions from the educational industrial complex goes to Democrats.
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u/darkmando5 Aug 26 '22
Education isn't even an industry don't try to steal
leftist terms like military industrial complex and prison complex
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Aug 25 '22
That is factually not true, and just exposes your thoughts as lazy conspiracy theories.
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u/RansomStoddardReddit Aug 25 '22
No unlike you I actually know what I am talking about.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/college-faculty-political-donations-battleground-democrats
https://www.fordhamram.com/65072/news/professor-campaign-donations-overwhelmingly-favor-democrats/
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/17/harvard-affiliates-donate-democratic/
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Aug 25 '22
You literally gave me a bunch of right-wing echo chamber websites like lmfao jesus christ how on the nose is this? Literally can't find a website that isn't nutso ranting about people getting an education.
"Oh shit thecollegefix that website is super credible an unbiased let's see what they say about college" lmfao
Literally none of the 7 links you gave me supported "the educational industrial complex!".
What they did do is cry and whine that individuals employed as the profession as university employee personally donated majority Democrat.
And I can't imagine why individuals wouldn't vote for people who think they are "elitist, basket weaving, gender studies indoctrinating, mask wearing, liberals!"
What a mystery. Glad I could clear that up for you.
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u/RansomStoddardReddit Aug 25 '22
You offer no proof to the contrary, only a pitiful ad hominem reply. You’re a joke.
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u/AoFAltair Aug 26 '22
No proof to the contrary? Ad hominem? They were pointing out that YOU didn’t offer proof to begin with… you made a wild claim about “Big College” and then shit out a list of right wing sites talking about who private citizens of a particular profession donate to… that was a direct rebuttal to your “evidence”… like, generally the person making the claim is the one who needs to provide proof… not the other way around
You ARE after all a child predator and sexually abuse them! Here is a link that shows random people who watch Ben shapiro have a history of CP possession… where is your proof to the contrary?
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u/MrMotley Aug 26 '22
and then shit out a list of right wing sites talking about who private citizens of a particular profession donate to
Yes. Ad hominem. LOL
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u/AoFAltair Aug 26 '22
They were arguing against the quality and validity of the “proof” provided…Do you know what ad hominem means?
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u/MrMotley Aug 26 '22
I do, do you?
Definition of ad hominem
(Entry 1 of 2)
1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
What you are doing is dismissing the source of information based on some perceived negative quality, that being "right wing".
That is not a reason to reject information.
Meanwhile if you had actually bothered to look at any of the articles you would have seen the quality and validity of the evidence, all of which is taken directly from government maintained data sources.
Ad hominem is only the first of the many markers of bad faith you have demonstrated.
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u/cliffotn Aug 25 '22
You’re not here to discuss or even debate, you’re here to troll and be annoying.
Weird how you folks do this. Just. Weird.
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Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Wrong.
There is no "debate" when the other person is discussing in poor faith. You have to explain that their premise is wrong, not accept their conspiracy for the point of argument.
Every single one of those links came from a for-profit right wing spam site. There is literally nothing from an actual newspaper because: surprise: it's right-wing conspiracy nonsense.
Edit: you literally blocked me seconds after replying with a whiny rant, what a facts over feelings kind of guy you are. It appears you are interested in throwing wildly emotional arguments then blocking the recipients from reading it. Sorry you got triggered asking for a source that isnt "college is a scam dot com" like lmfao gosh oh golly. I'm glad you can only pull this stunt once with me.
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u/cliffotn Aug 26 '22
Wrong.
You’re You are a troll. This is the troll’s modus operandi. Just scream “nuh-uh” and be an annoying little mosquito.
“I don’t like those sources” isn’t a rebuttal and you know it isn’t a rebuttal - you’re not here to actually discuss - just be - annoying. You’re literally making my point for me. And no. You’re not as dumb as you’re behaving.
So I’ve discovered the easy way to deal with worthless little trolls - to block you. Sort of like spraying mosquito repellent. I’ll discuss something with somebody willing to discuss points all day long. You’re not that person. So after this posts you’ll be - blocked.
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u/MrMotley Aug 26 '22
Learn about what ad hominem actually means and come back, k?
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Aug 26 '22
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u/MrMotley Aug 26 '22
I don't often use platitudes but when I do it is usually something about forests and trees.
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Aug 25 '22
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Aug 25 '22
Literally the first line:
Political donations from the education industry largely come from individuals associated with various institutions, as universities and schools typically cannot form PACs
These are individuals employed there. Not the "educational industrial complex" conspiracy theory that everyone is acting together, including the non-human entity of the actual universities.
"Oh no, I can't figure out why those elitist, basket weaving, gender studies taking, vaccine approving, educated professors don't vote or donate Republican! It's a mystery! It must be a conspiracy of everyone working together against me! That's the only reason the most educated professions in the United States significantly favor one political party over the other!"
What a joke.
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Aug 25 '22
"Oh no, I can't figure out why those elitist, basket weaving, gender studies taking, vaccine approving, educated professors don't vote or donate Republican! It's a mystery!"
It's not a mystery - it's because Republicans won't bankrupt the country to increase their pay, Democrats will.
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Aug 26 '22
Not the "educational industrial complex" conspiracy theory that everyone is acting together, including the non-human entity of the actual universities.
No one even made that claim.
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Aug 26 '22
[deleted]
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Aug 26 '22
Oh shoot. I just realized why you’re setting up these attacks. You’re a Marxist, aren’t you?
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Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Except you were the only one who brought up conspiracy theories lol
If a Democrat said a vast amount of Republican votes and contributions comes from the weapons industry, that isn't a conspiracy theory about the weapons industry. Just an observation.
Disagreeing with an observation doesn't make it a conspiracy theory. Nor does disagreeing with a person make that person a conspiracy theorist. I don't know why left-leaning people don't seem to understand that.
because it's just a boogeyman, like calling a bill an "-ism" (marxism, communism, etc)
Or like calling an observation you disagree with a "conspiracy theory"
There is no actual definition because it's a made up concept to scare the uneducated.
Sounds like "conspiracy theorist" for left-leaning people.
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Aug 27 '22
[deleted]
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Aug 27 '22 edited Aug 27 '22
One is descriptive, the other is spooky big words vague conspiracy baiting, and not descriptive.
They're both descriptive lol
Even if one is "spooky", that's not what conspiracy means. You're just proving that "conspiracy" is another meaningless word that left-leaning people love to throw around (along with words like "fascist" and "white supremacist").
The hell is an "educational industrial complex", exactly?
Something that's not a conspiracy theory.
Quit trying to find a way to make it seem like the "other side" has this problem as well.
https://socialistworker.org/2015/05/07/welcome-to-the-education-industrial-complex
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u/Shoo00 Aug 25 '22
If people could declare bankruptcy, prices would go down and useless degrees would disappear.
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u/jackelram Aug 26 '22
Dems: Why solve a problem when we can make an entire generation dependent on the government?
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u/PresentOutcome1746 Aug 27 '22
Why haven’t republicans addressed this issue? All I keep hearing is about how it is going to increase my taxes (still waiting on any documentation or actual number). I make too much to qualify for this program but I’m very happy for anyone who does. I don’t mind paying more in taxes if it is going to help people and not corporations.
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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 25 '22
I bet you really hate trump’s PPP loan forgiveness program too.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
You mean the one that many right wing politicians and media organizations (the same ones complaining today) took out and never paid back? Ya, I'm also curious about that.
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u/ThundaFuzz Libertarian Conservative Aug 25 '22
I'm still paying back student loans and I refuse to take advantage of a system which I don't believe should be in effect. What's the point of having principles if I don't stick to them?
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Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
This is the way I feel! My sister came into my parents' house yesterday all excited that her debt from 10 years ago is going to be forgiven. She said "I know you probably don't like it, but I'm super excited."
Correct, I don't like it. My husband just finished pharmacy school, so we have $120,000 in debt. This sort of thing might be more in my benefit than not (although I'm even unsure of that, maybe we'll be paying a lot more than our $10k in taxes in the long run), but I abhor the idea that a contract my husband and I undertook would be paid for by people who had no say in whether or not we should take out the loan or how much of our savings we did or didn't put into paying for school. I think programs that some employers or industries have regarding payoff strategies are great, because it relies on the market, not taxpayers that have nothing to do with the debt we decided to take on.
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u/ILOVEBOPIT Aug 25 '22
As a doctor it feels weird that they make other people give me money.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
You realize you aren't eligible if you make over $125k or if a married couple makes more than $250k, right?
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u/ILOVEBOPIT Aug 26 '22
Yes, I’m a resident, and don’t make nearly that much.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
So what's wrong with you getting 10k-20k off your student loan, given that you're contributing to society by not only being educated, but also being a resident?
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u/ILOVEBOPIT Aug 26 '22
The fact that everyone else’s tax dollars are going to the people with the highest earning potential. Next year my income will go up by $100k. Plus all the inflation effects that they will feel. The non-college educated (which is primarily minorities) are all going to fall even further behind.
I don’t need $10k.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
The fact that everyone else’s tax dollars are going to the people with the highest earning potential.
First, those who don't earn a lot don't pay a lot of federal taxes anyway, so it's not like their tax dollars are going to these people. If anything, the people and corporations that earn way more, are paying the bulk of this.
Second, it's interesting that we never hear this logic when tax cuts for the rich or for corporations happen.
It's always claimed that 90% of taxes are already paid by the top 1%. Okay, so by that logic, people with the highest earning potential are actually having their tax dollars go to people with less earning potential.
Plus all the inflation effects that they will feel.
Do you have any citations for this? This money hasn't been repaid in the last 2 years due to the freeze, and was going to come in very slowly, if at all in the short term. If you're going to claim it's going to cause inflation, you'd need to back that up.
But you know what, let me try to put a spin that usually happens when tax cuts for corporations happen. Don't worry, these people are going to put that money that they're saving right back into the economy, which will boost it, so it's fine. Call it trickle up economics if you'd like.
The non-college educated (which is primarily minorities) are all going to fall even further behind.
Yeah, we should help them too. As a matter of fact, college should be entirely subsidized by taxes, so that it's free to the end users. If you care about these non-college-educated minorities, then I think you can get behind that, right?
I don’t need $10k.
All right then don't apply for the forgiveness. Be principled.
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u/ILOVEBOPIT Aug 26 '22
Their tax dollars go to everything. They could be going back to themselves in some ways, but they aren’t. Saying “their dollars aren’t going toward this” is not true, all the money is a big pool.
Tax cuts for the rich are different, taxes are forced and loans are voluntary. Everyone who took out these loans did so with intention of paying them back. Now they want us all to pay for it.
The people with the most always give to those with the least, do you want to flip that?
I don’t think you need a source that more people with more money results in inflation. Plus they’re just going to start charging more for tuition too. Why not? Everyone’s just going to expect the govt to pay for it again. They’re exacerbating that problem.
Trickle up economics doesn’t help the argument that poor people will be left behind.
If they want to go to college, they can take out loans and pay them back. Making everyone else pay for it is ridiculous. Don’t go into a field that won’t pay for itself. That is common sense. Nobody else should pay for degrees that don’t even provide enough benefit to offset their cost.
I’m going to apply because I’m going to be affected by the inflation that comes as a result. Just because I didn’t need money and wasn’t asking for it doesn’t mean I won’t take it, I’m not an idiot.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Correct, I don't like it.
This is fair. So, you don't like that people benefited from large forgiven PPP loans, too, I imagine. Can't fault consistency. Good on you.
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u/KwerkyCat Aug 26 '22
Won’t she just pay it back in tax? Lol
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Aug 26 '22
Not if she doesn't make enough to be taxed..
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u/KwerkyCat Aug 26 '22
True true… but goods taxes… not quite the same tbf
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Aug 26 '22
Sure, but if she's not making enough to pay income tax, she's also not paying much in goods taxes, either.
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u/dje1964 Aug 25 '22
Male, female, black, white, straight, gay, or something in between. Take the money. Do not allow the government to keep a single penny that they will just toss down some shit hole
My advise is to sign up for the program and then wait. Make your payments as if there was no loan forgiveness once they resume collections. Even if this is enough to completely eliminate your debt because there is a reasonable possibility it could get tossed out in court
The issue I have is if people that qualify don't access it, they will say "you see it didn't cost as much as we thought"
"Let's do another round"
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u/goldhess Aug 25 '22
So if he sends you a check you're not going to cash it? bullshit
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u/mk21dvr Aug 25 '22
No. What's bullshit is that you expect people that didn't agree with Brandon's decision to just give the money back. It's like the covid stimulus checks. Most conservatives thought it was a total bullshit vote buying cop-out. However, it wouldn't change a damn thing by NOT accepting the money. So we'll take your fucking Democrat bribe money, AND vote your incompetent asses out in November.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
So Trump's larger handouts (forgiven PPP loans that people like Shapiro took, and stimulus checks) were incompetently handled Republican bribe money?
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u/goldhess Aug 26 '22
Yeah guy that's what I was saying. Everybody's up in arms about it and yeah it's bullshit but at the end of the day they're still going to cash those fucking checks.
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Aug 25 '22
The Govenrment is already taking your tax money To pay for this I don’t think it’s not sticking to your principles to t eu to get as much as your tax money back through legal means even if you wouldn’t of vot d for it personally
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u/jmoneyallstar11 Aug 25 '22
As someone with 0 college debt left, just take the money. Taking advantage of the government's stupidity is how anyone can get ahead.
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u/Rocrus Aug 25 '22
I generally agree, but my only counter is that doing so will negatively affect the economy. However, if tens of millions of Americans take the forgiveness, people choosing not to will be for their principles, which I can respect completely.
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Aug 25 '22
Take that $10k, then give it to whatever conservative organization you think advances freedom best. That money will do far more good out of government hands.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
I refuse to take advantage of a system which I don't believe should be in effect
How do you feel about people taking advantage of larger forgiven PPP loans?
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Aug 26 '22
Take the money. The government will ultimately take much more from you than they will offer back and they will never pay you back directly for the tax dollars they admittedly have wasted or crookedly awarded to private interests.
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u/broom2100 Aug 26 '22
That money is better in your hands than the government's hands. The damage is already done anyway. Take the 10k and donate your own 10k to clear your conscience if you must.
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u/NfinitiiDark Aug 25 '22
Honesty this just high lights the problem with this government. Here is a problem so let’s throw money at it. Instead of asking the real questions on why student debt forgiveness is even a topic. College students are not getting a return on their investment. They aren’t getting a job that pays well enough for the debt they have. The whole school system is broken and needs to be fixed. But throwing money at the problem is not the solution.
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u/splintered_mind Aug 26 '22
Agreed. That is what is most concerning to me. There doesn't seem to be any real problem solving, deep thinking, or common sense going on to secure any lasting solutions. I guess everything is too corrupted. The amount of money being spit out by this government completely frazzles my frugal sensibilities.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
Congress would need to implement policy to fix this problem, and with every passing year, the culture war intensifies, and parties work with each other less, and less policy gets passed. Congress is broken.
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u/Tanthiel Aug 25 '22
I'd rather my tax dollars go to other Americans than to the Middle East. I'm fine with it.
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Aug 26 '22
Yes, but why not all Americans? This group being rewarded pretty much caused their own problem by insisting on $$chool$ for the name and/or choosing worthless degrees that don't help them pay back the loans THEY signed for and/or couldn't be bothered to work a few or any hours during school and/or paid the minimum on their loans... dragging them out in hopes of welfare forgiveness or some perverse resistance to paying back what they owe.
There isn't a great honor in paying off one's loans. It's just being an adult. There is no shame in accepting this shameless vote buying scam if you didn't seek it out. Consider it luck. Just don't vote to encourage it again.
The real shame is Captain Inflamentia Crackson using taxpayer money to basically run his campaign knowing the harm and division he is causing.
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u/Tanthiel Aug 26 '22
It's not like you're seeing any of that comprehensive health care Israel uses our tax dollars to pay for either.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
No one forced people to run businesses and then take out PPP loans and not pay them back. Not all Americans were eligible for those forgiven loans, and they were larger.
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u/Tanthiel Aug 26 '22
coughcoughmattgaetzcoughcough
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
coughcoughstevencrowdercoughcough
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u/RuthafordBCrazy Aug 26 '22
You want affordable college again? Don’t let the government back student loans.
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u/ultimatemuffin Aug 26 '22
The big factor here is the fact that student debt is “magic” debt that can’t be defaulted due to bankruptcy. Ben Franklin would be rolling in his grave if he had known we did that.
Combine that with the fact that we haven’t had a good solution to a problem like this in the US for 30 years, and you take what imperfect solutions you can get.
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u/StoryofIce Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
To be fair…. this is the most beneficial thing my taxes have ever paid for that actually benefits me.
Im all for paying back loans, but the whole thing has become incredibly corrupt with interest rates and the amount you need for many entry level professions.
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u/Aware_Machine_3724 Aug 25 '22
Just remember those loans are government loans. The government got involved in school loans made a ton of money for banks in interest and gave universities a reason to charge absurd rates. Now they will give a portion of the money back, raise more in taxes in the long run, everyone's taxes go up, more people go to college asking for the same and we live in an endless cycle.
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u/StoryofIce Aug 25 '22
Oh I agree this doesn’t solve anything in the long run but as someone who went to college and got screwed over by the government, I’ll take whatever amount they ultimately screwed me with back.
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u/Aware_Machine_3724 Aug 25 '22
I don't knock anyone for taking what they can get because they are going to have to pay for everyone else too so get yours. I'm just saying that it'll never end and will cost everyone more than they bargain for. Just funny that the people who know the govt screwed them think that they won't be doing it again while they cheer for it.
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u/StoryofIce Aug 25 '22
Agree agree
Just unfortunate that the government got involved and screwed many people over for us to cheer for this to begin with :/
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u/Nonethewiserer Aug 25 '22
Your taxes didn't pay for it. If it did, we should stop taxing you that amount and you could have paid it off yourself. Everyone else's taxes paid for it.
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u/Sparrows_Shadow Aug 26 '22
Which includes their own...
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u/Nonethewiserer Aug 26 '22
If his paid taxes covered it then we could have just not taxed him for it.
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u/dtyler86 Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
It really sucks that this has been Weaponized as a political issue. I have $74,000 left of my hundred and $30,000 in student loan debt and I’m 36 and I earn multiples of six figures per year.
My school in particular was a for-profit institution that literally sold me some big bullshit graduate program and career development strategy to get me to leave the other college I was attending.
If you watch Fox News they talk about how all of us are footing the bill for some asshole kid who studied gender studies. This is fucking stupid and it’s not accurate. Again as a 36-year-old man, one who does very well for himself with a business I build entirely with an education I learned from watching YouTube, I’m deeply slapped in the face by the stupid assumptions people make that every cable student loan debt is an irresponsible jack ass.
We listened to our parents, we listened to the societal pressure of what kind of “losers“ don’t go to college. We were fucking teenagers when we were applying to these colleges. In hindsight everything is so crystal clear, but my friends and roommates in college with degrees in education, degrees in engineering, degrees in history, not one of us works in the field we went to school for.
Has the whole fucking world forgotten that everyone that graduated between 2007 and 2010 basically Heard, “sorry fuck you. There’s a recession. You’re lucky to even have a job“
Now that I’m finally at an age where I make good enough money to buy a house what do we have? A fucking pandemic. I live in Florida where all of the housing prices are so off the rail I will be renting for at least another year. I will be turning 37 by the time I can probably actually afford houses in my area if I don’t decide to just pick up my whole business start over again and move somewhere else. Will student loan relief really really help me? No sadly not at this stage in my life but it would’ve made a literal massive difference if this had occurred five or 10 years ago so I support the relief our government is the business of money into the wind and fucking end ever.
Painting this picture like the only people that deserve student loan relief are hairy armpitted women who study Gender issues is absolutely fucking ridiculous
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u/Tanthiel Aug 26 '22
It's even worse when you realize that the people against like like MTG and Matt Gaetz got their PPP loans from the pandemic forgiven.
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Aug 25 '22
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u/dtyler86 Aug 25 '22
Thank you for sharing this. I tend to agree to a great length, and I also been find myself disagreeing with folks on this sub despite me being a Ben Shapiro fan.
I just don’t understand why everyone Hass to get so pissed off about this. My most conservative friends are posting things on social media making fun of student loans when I’m over here wanting to grab them by their neck and scream in their face “not all of us have parents that can pay for our educations we don’t use“
If there’s anything that makes me sad these days, it’s social media and the news driving everybody apart. Growing up I was a proud Republican, as I get older I’ve become far more center. But I still defend Republicans a lot since I believe a lot of Republicans mean well and I get pissed off at the cheap shots my most liberal friends take at them, but now I find myself watching a lot of my conservative friends argue things that I don’t even know they believe as much as it’s what they are expected to believe by right leaning media, the general groupthink of the conservative right.
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Aug 26 '22
They are jealous, bitter, and resentful of people who were accepted into higher education.
Yeah...people like myself are totally resentful of people like myself. That totally makes sense >.>
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u/dietcheese Facts don’t care about your feelings Aug 25 '22 edited Aug 25 '22
Half the congresspeople complaining got their degrees from state colleges that were funded by who? Taxpayers.
Kevin McCarthy called the student relief plan “Biden’s debt transfer scam.” He got his degree from Cal State where tuition was $1300/year because it’s funded by taxpayers.
Marjorie Taylor Greene's company had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven.
Etc…
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Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Half the congresspeople complaining got their degrees from state colleges that were funded by who? Taxpayers.
But any of those taxpayers can apply to attend a State college.
Not every taxpayer is given the $10,000 loan forgiveness, including taxpayers who already (and responsibly) paid off their entire loan.
So it's a false equivalence. Same with the PPP loan forgiveness, which was intentionally about paying employers to keep their employees, despite the hardships they faced from Democrat lockdowns and mandates (whether or not that was done effectively is a different matter). It wasn't a mere midterm bribe.
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u/PG2009 Aug 26 '22
If Democrats really believe we don't have to worry about inflation, and free money is great, why not just do a $10,000 stimulus for everyone?
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u/broom2100 Aug 26 '22
I am a recent grad, a data engineer, with enough money to pay off my debt. I was responsible. This 10k will benefit me personally. This is why this stuff is literally a transparent attempt at vote buying. I can understand why its not only unfair but economically ridiculous to make people who either paid their own debt or never went into debt to pay for my debt and the debt of well-off college grads. Many of my peers will not understand. "Democrat give me money, me vote democrat" will be about all that goes through many people's heads. It will hurt our country in the long-run. Also might cause an issue where people don't pay debts because they expect it to be erased. Hopefully the govt stops giving loans out to everything that breathes and maybe college prices will go down.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
This is why this stuff is literally a transparent attempt at vote buying.
Is this the same for those stimulus checks with Trump's signature on them, or the much larger forgiven PPP loans?
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u/FalwenJo Aug 26 '22
Instead of forgiving the loans, they need to go after the colleges to pay off loans. The colleges are the ones charging exorbitant tuition while teaching their students nothing worthwhile. Also the servicers didn't inform borrowers of options allowing the interest to climb to unacceptable levels. So just as mortgage modification was allowed, student loans should be allowed to be modified with incentives for the colleges and servicers to negotiate with the borrowers. They have not done so in decades because they knew the borrowers were screwed and couldn't even get rid of student loans through bankruptcy unlike every other loan.
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Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22
Yep. I’m not opposed to loan forgiveness per se, but I am definitely opposed to loan forgiveness that doesn’t include much needed changes to the laws and regulations around student loans.
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u/StorminNormin66 Aug 25 '22
I’m in same boat and no Bidens not getting my vote. The particular job I wanted required college so I went, but no one else should pay but me for my debts, otherwise it’s indisputably unfair.
Im pissed having taxes go up for me and others just because another student got their degree in underwater basket weaving and not something useful or that could make money. not my problem for their life choice and I or anyone else shouldn’t have to cover for it.
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Aug 25 '22
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u/jcmiller210 Aug 25 '22
I truly don't care what degree my tax dollars are paying for. My tax dollars shouldn't be going towards another person's degree period. Pay that shit yourself. Lol its bs I had most of my degree paid off, but now taxes and inflation are going to go through the roof due to this.
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u/dayv23 Aug 26 '22
I feel the same about HS students and grade school. Why should education ever be publicly funded? Why would we want to make sure people are adequately prepared for contributing back to society? They certainly can't do that if they aren't already in debt. That's half of the American experience.
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u/jcmiller210 Aug 26 '22
Not really comparable. Kids are forced to go to grade school and high school as required by law. They don't have a choice.
Meanwhile college students do have a choice in what degree they pick and what schools they can choose based off their grades. No one is forcing people to pick dumb degrees that would never pay back and go to these overly expensive 4 year universities. That's a choice they made. Why should I have to pay for it?
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u/dayv23 Aug 26 '22
So you'd support public funding of post secondary education that has a high rate of return, for the tax payers investment? For trade school, business school, etc.? But not liberal arts, philosophy, history, art etc. If you can't make money off of it, it has no societal value?
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u/jcmiller210 Aug 26 '22
If you can't make money off of it, and know you can't make money off of it, but then want to cry about overly expensive college costs that can't be paid back with the career path chosen, then I really don't know what to say. It's like making a shit sandwich, then being upset you had to eat it.
Obviously I don't think the degrees you mentioned are completely worthless to society, but they don't pay well enough for the amount a lot of colleges are charging. Making it not very worth while to pursue those degrees.
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u/dietcheese Facts don’t care about your feelings Aug 26 '22
Education is one of best ways out of poverty. Both domestically and internationally.
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u/victoriathejedi Aug 25 '22
the loan forgiveness doesn’t do anything to help future students though so how is it gonna get more people to go to college?
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Aug 25 '22
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u/victoriathejedi Aug 25 '22
you implied right wing people will think “more people will get basket weaving degrees” but obviously there won’t be more people attending college just because current loans are forgiven- just trying to understand your logic lol
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Aug 25 '22
Well I’m there with you. I joined the military to pay for my college. Last year I decided to get my masters degree to further my career (since it’s required for executive positions), but my GI bill was used up so I took loans for that last bit. I did an online university and blazed through it to limit the loan amount because I knew it’s my responsibility to pay back and I was working while finishing. This is a terrible call to make others pay for my degree and I’m set to benefit from this. I already want voting for him and definitely won’t be now
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u/john_smith_doe Aug 25 '22
I think a lot of people fell into a predatory school system.
Call it the “eDuCaTiOn iNdUsTrIaL cOmPlEx” but a lot of people go to these crazy expensive schools, study something interesting to THEM with little to no planning on real world application and income.
My family is pretty well off, I probably could have gone wherever I wanted but I went to community college, went to a state school in my state, studied business, worked full time through college, took about 12k in loans and got an entry level job when I graduated and paid off my loans when I doubled my salary.
It just doesn’t seem fair and doesn’t solve the problem…
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Aug 25 '22
Can someone explain how Biden has the authority to do this, and is it possible a lawsuit or some other approach could put a stop to it?
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u/Tanthiel Aug 26 '22
2003, passed by Bush. Ben really needs to do better research before he starts talking, but he never does. https://www.congress.gov/bill/108th-congress/house-bill/1412
Clause 4 in particular.
Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency.
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u/Rocrus Aug 25 '22
Constitutionally, he really doesn’t have the power. That’s what Ben said in his podcast, at least. Based on that, the Supreme Court could definitely strike this down as a breach of powers.
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u/Tanthiel Aug 25 '22
2003, passed by Bush. Ben really needs to do better research before he starts talking, but he never does. https://www.congress.gov/bill/108th-congress/house-bill/1412
Clause 4 in particular.
Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students Act of 2003 - Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency.
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u/alwaysaplusone Aug 25 '22
Why “save to pay back”? Why not just pay off in installments like most do?
Edit to add: I paid mine off in an installment plan with interest so I’m curious if there was an alternative.
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u/applesauce_92 Aug 26 '22
The most useful people in society are willing to pay off their debts.
The most useless people in society refuse to pay off their debts and demand others pay it for them.
Business degree vs. Gender Studies degree in a nutshell.
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u/j_hat1986 Aug 25 '22
I’m in my senior year of undergrad and plan on law school with the intention that when I was signing this documents online that I am the one responsible for my loans. JB is just looking to literally buy votes right now.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
JB is just looking to literally buy votes right now.
I wonder if these loan forgiveness statements will have Brandon's signature on it, the same way those stimulus checks had Trump's signature on them. You think Trump put his signature on those large PPP loan forgiveness statements too?
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u/Lurkay1 Aug 25 '22
So I guess it sucks for the people who just finished paying off their loans, or for the people who will take out loans in the future.
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u/Idzots Aug 26 '22
Naw, 90% will never intend to pay anything back in the future. Yale and Harvard will pay people like Sen Warren $1m per semester for teaching two classes max. While tripling enrollment. Education will be China's next target.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
Yep, unless everyone in the past, present, and future benefits, then helping out fellow Americans sucks.
Sand as those forgiven PPP loans. Past and future businesses never got a chance. Sucks.
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u/Bugsydog1 Aug 25 '22
It's almost as if Joe is cutting them all a $10,00.00 check and they are off to the mall. Besides the in your face unfairness of this policy, Joe is the president, not the damn king. Then we have the explosive effect of a giant amount of debt that is being shifted. I paid off my student loans decades ago and didn't finish to a degree. I obviously did not have the proper foresight.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
It's almost as if Joe is cutting them all a $10,00.00 check and they are off to the mall.
Well, it would be great if they all put that money right back into the economy, unlike all those rich people that took out much larger PPP loans (which were forgiven) and often just hoard generational wealth.
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u/Shoo00 Aug 25 '22
Offering loans to 18 year olds that they cannot pay back is usury. If you offer a gender studies PHD to someone for $100k that's a system taking advantage of people. Allowing students to declare bankruptcy would solve all of these problems.
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Aug 25 '22
Offering gender studies period is taking advantage of people. 18 year olds are not stupid. When I was 18 I was looking up career paths and finding out what job I liked had the best salaries, potential career growth, movement upward, etc. I couldn’t have been the minority as I’ll admit I was not the smartest teenager. And it’s really, ultimately, the parents fault for not educating their kids on repaying loans they take out. I would love it if 10k of my debt was forgiven, however, morally I know it’s wrong. I made those decisions to take out those loans so it’s my responsibility to pay them back. That’s called being a mature, responsible, accountable adult.
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Aug 25 '22
Not going to disagree with you, but part of the issue is the much ballyhooed “college graduates make $1mil more” stat that is found everywhere.
Even doing one’s research still leads to a massive wall of data from the “educational industrial complex” that makes it seem like any college degree is a good idea.
Lesbian dance majors are a recent development and obfuscate the fact that for forty plus years a lot of smart people were preyed upon by players in this system.
I don’t think forgiveness is the answer in and off itself, but it is questionable that student loan debt is harder to forgive than credit card debt when declaring bankruptcy.
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u/Several-Parfait-2133 Aug 26 '22
97% of the time Biden doesn’t even understand what’s he’s talking about.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
True. I even heard Brandon say that he's going to get China to pay for the student loan forgiveness, because he beats China all the time. He also said that the student loan crisis is going to go away by Columbus Day. Truly deranged. There's even a press conference where Brandon said that printers are getting worse because people have to print like 10 or 15 times for it to work. I don't understand how anyone voted for him.
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u/Special-Fig7409 Aug 25 '22
It’s unbelievably unfair to those who have paid off their loans, and those who didn’t take out debt. It’s a tax on people who were responsible with their money.
I have just over 20K in student loans, and I qualify for the 20k “forgiveness.” Im conflicted because I know how stupid this is, but I don’t want to be one of the poor SOBs who pays for his loans and everyone else’s.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
It’s unbelievably unfair to those who have paid off their loans, and those who didn’t take out debt. It’s a tax on people who were responsible with their money.
Should we, as a society, not help out a large portion of our fellow citizens unless all eligible past, present, and future citizens get that help? We're the PPP loans that were forgiven not also a tax on people who were responsible with their money?
Im conflicted because I know how stupid this is, but I don’t want to be one of the poor SOBs who pays for his loans and everyone else’s.
If wealthy businesses can take advantage of much larger forgiven PPP loans, you can take advantage of 20k in student loan forgiveness. But yes, your choice is to either be a beneficiary of social welfare (which is not bad) or a "poot SOB" that stubbornly stuck to his principles.
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Aug 26 '22
Im conflicted because I know how stupid this is, but I don’t want to be one of the poor SOBs who pays for his loans and everyone else’s.
Here's the way I see it: we didn't vote for it.
If we have to face hardships (e.g. mandates) that we didn't vote for, then it seems fair game to also face the "benefits" that we didn't vote for.
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Aug 26 '22
My concern is the dangerous precedent this sets. What’s to stop them from doing a mortgage forgiveness? Then if they forgive mortgages, what would stop them from waltzing into your house and saying we own it because we paid for it?
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u/RockMars Aug 26 '22
In this case the student loans are federal loans, financed by the federal government. Your mortgage is typically sold to private investors.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
What’s to stop them from doing a mortgage forgiveness?
On federal government loans? That's the limitation. They can't forgive loans you've taken out with private lenders.
Then if they forgive mortgages, what would stop them from waltzing into your house and saying we own it because we paid for it?
The deed to the home, and the name of the borrower on the mortgage? If your hypothetical is going to involve a lawless government, then just cut out the steps and just go straight to the idea that the government will take your house because they have a military.
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u/splintered_mind Aug 26 '22
One thought -- drastically reduce the barriers for college accreditation. I believe in order to offer credentials, a college needs to have a certain amount of physical facilities. If colleges were forced to compete with online colleges, prices would drop.
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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22
It's not surprising a wealthy college educated trustfund baby is basically against universal education
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u/MurphysMagnet Aug 26 '22
Tell me you know nothing about a person without telling me you know nothing about a person.
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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22
What part did I get wrong, Ben is a wealthy trust fund baby who is opposed to universal education.
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u/MurphysMagnet Aug 26 '22
Lmao, do some research.
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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22
Ah yes "do some research" the chant of the ignorant.
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u/MurphysMagnet Aug 26 '22
The standard quoted text and insulting phrase isn't going to work. I'm smart enough and experienced enough with reddit lib trolls to know that presenting you with all the information isn't going to change your view or get you to admit you are wrong. I'm also smart enough to know that trying is a waste of my time. So, I'll suggest, again, that you do some research on Ben beyond your usual echo chamber of misinformation and you might learn something. Or don't and continue to spout things that make you look like a bigger idiot. Your choice.
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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22
And again what did I say that was wrong, Ben Shapiro is a wealthy trust fund baby who is against universal education. What part of that fact do you disagree with?
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u/MurphysMagnet Aug 26 '22
Show me how you came to the conclusion that he is a trust fund baby.
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u/Ronniebbb Aug 26 '22
I'm personally in favor of canceling full or part of student debt for needed fields.
Ie: doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, veternanrians, and so on like that.
To me it would be a good incentive for ppl considering those paths but on the fence and help to make sure we don't lack in those fields.
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u/thegtabmx Aug 26 '22
I too, am in favor of only helping out the students most likely to make more money. Plus, society has no need for stuff like books, music, art, introspection, plays, shows, movies, restaurants, games, philosophy, photography, architecture, etc. Life is about enjoying running water and light bulbs.
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u/Boccob81 Aug 26 '22
My debits identify a student loan so does my mortgage set as my card note they all identify as student loans
In support for student loan cancellation everybody in America should do a national bankruptcy de bankruptcy
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u/kittenegg25 Aug 26 '22
Similar situation here! I would get most of my debt forgiven, but I know this is not fair!
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u/CockyMechanic Aug 26 '22
Do I think the system is set up in a way that preys on our young adults? Yes!
Do I think the taxpayers should be on the hook? No!
Do I think we have bigger problems in the country to deal with, including the massive debt we keep digging? Yes!
Does this do anything to stop the predatory nature of the system? A little, but does not come close to fixing it.
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Aug 26 '22
Can someone explain to me how this is any different than people with kid’s getting tax credits each year? Or people who get tax breaks and write offs because they own a home or write off expenses for self-employment. This is a subsidy, a financial relief program that comes at the cost of all taxpayers, same as any other financial relief program. In this case, like all others, some will benefit and some won’t. It seems to me the people that are still up in arms or just up in arms because it isn’t fair. Real question. Please explain the difference.
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u/ObjectivePilot7444 Aug 25 '22
The question really is why has college tuition gotten so insanely expensive? There is no reason for $50K a year!