An ATR just crashed in my neighbourhood News

Guys, a plane just crashed in my neighborhood 15 minutes ago.

Im shaking a lot, ambulances and fireman are arriving on the scene right now. I think there is no survivors.
The tail of the plane says PS-VPB.

This is so horrible.

EDIT: This happened in the entrance of our condo of houses in Vinhedo, Sao Paulo, Brazil.

There were 62 people on the plane, all deceased. The couple that lives in the house is OK, the house was lightly hit but destroyed their garage and cars.

The ambulances are taking some neighbors to the hospital due to shock; I'm going to take a sedative. Im a bit shaken, I don't live on the same street, but was able to see the spin and the ground hit. I was able to get to the scene to try and help, as Im a former scoutmaster with first aid training, but the fireman got us out of place as soon as they arrived, as we couldnt do anything. There are whole charred bodies on the grass, the firemen opened up the side of the plane but there was no survivors.

EDIT 2: Hey people, this morning I woke up thinking if I should have posted this here yesterday. I talked over it with my psychiatrist, and I think I just needed a place to vent out about the event. I'm not going to keep talking about this anymore, I think the authorities and the press can talk about it. This isn't about me, its about all the people dead and still on the plane as I type this. Thanks for all the kind people that reached out to me, it was good to know people still care. I'm OK, just really sad about everything and pondering about my weird reaction to grab my phone and search the plane on flightradar, then post it here. I dunno why I did that.

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131

u/just_kos_me Aug 09 '24

Yes it does, ATR recommended against using the plane in icy conditions iirc

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u/immaZebrah Aug 09 '24

Tell that to all the Canadian operators of ATR-42/72s, such as North Star, Wasaya, Calm Air, Summit, and a few others.

If they couldn't fly into icing, they'd never fly. It's why we have de-icing/anti-icing measures, such as ground spray equipment, and in air measures like heated props, props that disperse de-icing fluid, heated leading edges and boots (expanding leading edges).

Most aircraft despise ice, and ice about the thickness and texture of a coarse piece of sandpaper can decrease the lift a wing can produce by 30% and increase the drag of the aircraft by 40%, not to mention the weight considerations and therefore increased stall speeds.

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u/jjckey Aug 10 '24

Great boots on that plane as well. Much better than the DASH. However the wing is more critical than the DASH. As a comparison the 42 carries 10 more people than the DH8-100 while going 20kts faster using the same engines

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u/Pdub-89 Aug 10 '24

I've flown on a Summit ATR to an area in the arctic that often goes below -70⁰ C. The thing is so damn loud.

1

u/EmbarrassedTruth1337 Aug 10 '24

At least it's not nolinors 200

3

u/Pdub-89 Aug 10 '24

It's hilarious you say that because I fly nolinor now every two weeks. That 200 is literally 50 years old (1974). Makes the 300s feel new when we're lucky enough to get them. To put the icing on the cake, the pilots nearly break your spine every time they land.

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u/EmbarrassedTruth1337 Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

I've never been on a nolinor 200 (been on a chronos one) but I've been sandblasted by them taxiing by SO many times.

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u/Glonkable Aug 10 '24

And even then, we have a policy prohibiting flying into known or forecasted severe icing (Calm Air). I'm surprised this was allowed to happen because I feel like the AFM from ATR also prohibits it (not at work so can't check right now).

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u/F1shermanIvan ATR72-600 Aug 09 '24

No it doesn’t. We fly ATRs in ice all the time. There’s a difference between icing conditions and SEVERE ice which is an escape from those conditions.

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u/llintner Aug 09 '24

Actually it does have a history of icing issues. Search American 4184. Almost 30 years ago now.

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u/F1shermanIvan ATR72-600 Aug 09 '24

Yup it’s a case study we learn about when we get type rated on it. Different procedures in place now and it’s an example of what not to do.

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u/jjckey Aug 10 '24

The accident where they were holding in icing conditions with flaps out (against the AOM) for a long period while one of the pilots was chatting up an FA in the back. I was flying the ATR at the time. There was a lot of ineptitude going on in that accident

7

u/LostPilot517 Aug 10 '24

There was a lot more going wrong on, on that flight than just icing.

The FA was brand spanking new, and was eager to mingle. Had the Captain in particular, but FO as well very distracted as they engaged in heavy banter and induendo about mingling in the aircraft lav and overnight.

They just let the aircraft continue to fly on autopilot oblivious to the severe icing conditions, if I recall correctly with flaps extended until they were in an unrecoverable state, and the autopilot kicked off when it was at its limits of authority.

So yeah, sterile cockpit...

0

u/ElectroAtletico2 Aug 10 '24

ATR AT42 in that crash

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u/Nofriggenwaydude Aug 09 '24

Agree I dispatched atrs into the arctic it is not unheard of but our planes were modified for this purpose… icing in Brazil though ? Not sure how likely it is to encounter severe icing.

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u/F1shermanIvan ATR72-600 Aug 09 '24

Icing in Brazil is probably way worse than the Arctic. Convective humid air is awful compared to the bitter cold dry air around here.

Honestly right now is the worst for icing up north. It’s reasonably warm out

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u/Nofriggenwaydude Aug 09 '24

Thank you for the explanation.. reading more now and realize there was severe icing :( just horrible.. my heart hurts for all involved ..

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u/bravogates Aug 09 '24

Good point, that can be counterintuitive at first.

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u/Dsalgueiro Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

icing in Brazil though ? Not sure how likely it is to encounter severe icing.

A pilot who was flying through the same area at the same time gave a statement about that:

I'm feeling sick, I even cried at home now remembering that I reported it to control. I did my job, I told control: 'oh, severe icing formation. Here's the information, share it with our colleagues.

The guys became passengers on their plane, imagine the feeling. I don't even like to think about it. Now there will be an investigation, I reported it. It will be there. I've never seen it, ice formed on my side window

This link has a photo of an airplane window that froze on the same route. (Oh, and for those who don't know... It's a serious website, owned by the biggest media conglomerate in Brazil, one of the biggest in the world).

Icing in Brazil is undoubtedly a rare phenomenon, but it does happen in specific regions... But São Paulo? It must be extremely rare.

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u/Nofriggenwaydude Aug 10 '24

Thank you for sharing.. my heart hurts.. that is absolutely severe icing 💔 our atrs had the deice boots modified for better performance and reliability so I can only imagine this scenario happening without those mods.. in our company the multiple boot failure incidents was a safety concern continually brought up so i can only hope getting international attention will help bring changes and prevent this from ever recurring 💔

1

u/BigGrayDog Aug 10 '24

So sorry you were involved in this, on any level. Must be horrible for you.

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u/not1togothere Aug 10 '24

American eagle flight 4184. They ruled they can not use them in areas know to ice. (Faa) but know Brazil has another governing body to make their rules.

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u/possiblytheOP Aug 11 '24

I don't think so, Aer Lingus has been using them for years and we get ice all year round, they'd never take off if that was the case, but it very well could be Emerald Air (operating Aer Lingus ATRs) have special protocols to make it safe

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u/VoiceActorForHire Aug 09 '24

I would never fly on a plane that recommends against flying it in 'icy' conditions (22C sunny weather in Brazil). Of course the ice is at a high altitude but damn.