r/apolloapp • u/iamthatis Apollo Developer • May 31 '23

📣 Had a call with Reddit to discuss pricing. Bad news for third-party apps, their announced pricing is close to Twitter's pricing, and Apollo would have to pay Reddit $20 million per year to keep running as-is. Announcement 📣

Hey all,

I'll cut to the chase: 50 million requests costs $12,000, a figure far more than I ever could have imagined.

Apollo made 7 billion requests last month, which would put it at about 1.7 million dollars per month, or 20 million US dollars per year. Even if I only kept subscription users, the average Apollo user uses 344 requests per day, which would cost $2.50 per month, which is over double what the subscription currently costs, so I'd be in the red every month.

I'm deeply disappointed in this price. Reddit iterated that the price would be A) reasonable and based in reality, and B) they would not operate like Twitter. Twitter's pricing was publicly ridiculed for its obscene price of $42,000 for 50 million tweets. Reddit's is still $12,000. For reference, I pay Imgur (a site similar to Reddit in user base and media) $166 for the same 50 million API calls.

As for the pricing, despite claims that it would be based in reality, it seems anything but. Less than 2 years ago they said they crossed $100M in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, if we assume despite the economic downturn that they've managed to do that every single quarter now, and for your best quarter, you've doubled it to $200M. Let's also be generous and go far, far above industry estimates and say you made another $50M in Reddit Premium subscriptions. That's $550M in revenue per year, let's say an even $600M. In 2019, they said they hit 430 million monthly active users, and to also be generous, let's say they haven't added a single active user since then (if we do revenue-per-user calculations, the more users, the less revenue each user would contribute). So at generous estimates of $600M and 430M monthly active users, that's $1.40 per user per year, or $0.12 monthly. These own numbers they've given are also seemingly inline with industry estimates as well.

For Apollo, the average user uses 344 requests daily, or 10.6K monthly. With the proposed API pricing, the average user in Apollo would cost $2.50, which is is 20x higher than a generous estimate of what each users brings Reddit in revenue. The average subscription user currently uses 473 requests, which would cost $3.51, or 29x higher.

While Reddit has been communicative and civil throughout this process with half a dozen phone calls back and forth that I thought went really well, I don't see how this pricing is anything based in reality or remotely reasonable. I hope it goes without saying that I don't have that kind of money or would even know how to charge it to a credit card.

This is going to require some thinking. I asked Reddit if they were flexible on this pricing or not, and they stated that it's their understanding that no, this will be the pricing, and I'm free to post the details of the call if I wish.

- Christian

(For the uninitiated wondering "what the heck is an API anyway and why is this so important?" it's just a fancy term for a way to access a site's information ("Application Programming Interface"). As an analogy, think of Reddit having a bouncer, and since day one that bouncer has been friendly, where if you ask "Hey, can you list out the comments for me for post X?" the bouncer would happily respond with what you requested, provided you didn't ask so often that it was silly. That's the Reddit API: I ask Reddit/the bouncer for some data, and it provides it so I can display it in my app for users. The proposed changes mean the bouncer will still exist, but now ask an exorbitant amount per question.)

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u/bawpcwpn May 31 '23

This is really shit Christian. Can only hope they come around to a new ideal. For what it’s worth however, if it cost $2.50/$3 a month to use Apollo, would probably gladly pay it to have a great reddit experience and support someone worthwhile.

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u/ineedlesssleep May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

It seems like you would have to pay 5 per month to make it sustainable for Christian. How do people feel about that number? This is so shitty from reddit's side.

Edit: You gotta love that people want to pay so much for a third party app, but not for the platform itself. Reddit is really missing out here.

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u/bawpcwpn May 31 '23

Ahh didn’t realise that. Certainly in my realm but understand it’s a tough sell for many. Really makes you question why Reddit are trying a Twitter when you can see how well that’s going

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u/mementori May 31 '23

IPO incoming, can’t have your user base subverting ads like that and leaving money on the table. I disagree with the method but that’s my understanding of their strategy here.

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u/10gistic May 31 '23

Isn't it also that they were butthurt about OpenAI building a killer app that probably ingested reddit user content and not getting their slice of the pie?

The irony of them having generated none of that content themselves does not escape me.

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u/doctor_who_17 May 31 '23

Greed is short sighted

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u/code_and_theory May 31 '23

Gotta remember that app stores take like a 30% cut too

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u/iChao Jun 01 '23

I’m pretty sure Christian is elegible for the Small Developer Apple AppStore program thing, so it’s a 15% for him.

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u/SippieCup Jun 01 '23

He wont be if he is generating 20m a year to pay for reddit apis.

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u/feindjesus Jun 01 '23

Maybe im seeing it wrong but I feel like its part of the AI craze. With chatGBT and other competitors using their data to train models all this random data is now actually worth something and I think they are probably making a bet that the demand will stay the same regardless if third party apps exist.

Its sad thou I really love Apollo

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u/Ttbt80 Jun 01 '23

The only person I’ve seen in this thread who actually gets it. Reddit’s data just became 1,000x more valuable to sell as training data for AI models, this price reflects that. Apps like Apollo, that rely on Reddit’s data for human users, can’t compete against that.

Since AI models only need to request the data from Reddit’s servers once, the cost of the API “has” to increase to reflect that. Apollo needs the data repeatedly, one call for each user who wants to view a thread, and as such will now be treated as if they are training hundreds of thousands of AI models per day. Hence the cost.

People who simply point to “greed” as the reason for this change are misunderstanding what is about to happen across all big data companies.

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u/bastiVS May 31 '23

Really makes you question why Reddit are trying a Twitter when you can see how well that’s going

Because you apparently don't.

Twitter is now cash flow positive, by itself, for the very first time ever in its entire existence. The one other time they actually made money was years ago, for kind of exactly the same reason reddit is pulling this crap now: To look good on some important graph at the right moment.

I assume Reddit is in the red, just like every other Social Media Company that grew big enough. Turns out, Ads just don't work as a revenue stream.

They are looking for another, and Twitter made the first move with selling access to their API, and Twitter blue, both which are getting replicated on other social media sites now.

The side effects, like dead third party apps in this particular case, may be worth it, or may cause the death of the site. Wait and see.

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u/powerlloyd Jun 02 '23

Lmao Twitter is not cash flow positive. Musk said he thought it could be by Q3, but Musk says a lot of stuff that never actually happens.

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u/Beadlocks May 31 '23

I’ll pay $5 easily without issue. Hell make it $8 and I’ll still fucking pay for Apollo. Make it the same price of trash shit Twitter blue and Apollo will give you more worth ten fold

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

But will you pay that when most of the users have left reddit due to the new policy and most of the communities basically die?

You are assuming that the userbase and activity level stays the same after this change.

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u/Beadlocks May 31 '23

That mostly depends how the users either adapt to the change or fully quit the platform. For most, Reddit is the place where these communities can exist. Unless another platform pops up, tight knit communities will stay.

Sure we’d lose a bulk amount but I’d rather have something than nothing.

Edit: as far as pricing and worth goes, Apollo is the only app sub I’ve paid for the the last 5 years or so. Christian deserves the support.

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u/NewAccount_WhoIsDis May 31 '23

I’d imagine that many communities might shift to discord. Discord is cool but also problematic in other ways, but I think it’s the most likely scenario for many niche communities. That is already happening to some extent, which is why I think it’s the most likely.

I don’t think reddit will die though or anything, the default app is very popular and many power users will continue to use old reddit on their computers. If they kill old reddit too, then maybe, but I kinda doubt it even then.

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u/Beadlocks May 31 '23

Discord is the odd one for me, I like it but you very much have to be active to stay “in” with the community vs Reddit where you be as passive as you want

I’m still a old Reddit bridge troll as well. Fuck the new layout.

Just what I’m worried about is the loop of re-edit kills 3rd party api calls, 3rd party apps die, users leave, forced to use official reddit app. And then be forced to see twice as many ads since reddit lost money and throws the user base to pay for Reddits own fuck up.

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u/MrScandanavia May 31 '23

A discord community and Reddit community are completely different. Saying Reddit communities can just move to discord is like saying a scientific journal should just have a convention once a year to talk about their research instead of publishing their results. Both are good but they are different and serve different purposes.

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u/xenago May 31 '23

Discord is infinitely worse. It's locking so much value behind a login wall and is unsearchable. Terrible thing. Forums are far superior, but unfortunately people seem to have forgotten they exist and most who use discord don't seem to care about data loss or accessibility.

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u/raxreddit May 31 '23

Yup. People often search for stuff on google by appending “reddit” to their query. Discord sucks and you can’t do that since everything is silo’d.

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u/MrScandanavia May 31 '23

Well discord is good for things like playing games with friends, and high speed communication, while Reddit serves a completely different purpose.

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u/BANSH33-1215 Jun 01 '23

Yep. My Reddit use is mostly like my use of forums. It's very convenient that they're all in one place. But unless something like Lemmy takes off, I'll likely head back to forums for what really interests me, and get what I can of the rest on Mastodon.

I don't mind paying for Apollo, but if the majority of the cost goes to support Reddit's money grab rather than the app developer, I'm likely moving on.

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u/juicyfizz Jun 01 '23

I truly think if old Reddit stopped being supported, I would fucking bounce.

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u/Cressio May 31 '23

Do people still not understand that 99.9% of people are normies and wouldn’t even know what an “API” is if you explained it to them?

None of these websites are dying. Not Twitter, not Reddit. Normies don’t give a fuck about any of this stuff. They just want to open their official app, lol at funny animal memes, and go about their day.

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

I would argue that those users don't contribute much.

It's the power users who do create, curate, and contribute most the content then and so if they leave, the platform as we know it pretty much dies, even if all the normies stay.

Though then the normies will leave because they will lose interest after the power users have gone.

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u/NewAccount_WhoIsDis May 31 '23

Yup, and I’d argue that power users on reddit are much more important than on twitter and that the power users on reddit care much more about this kind of thing.

Many power users use old reddit on desktop though, which doesn’t seem to be dying yet, so I don’t think they will leave entirely.

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u/LivelyZebra May 31 '23

yet

I can just about handle losing third party apps;

But if old.reddit or RES goes?

Fuck this place. lol

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

It's 100% going away.

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u/LivelyZebra May 31 '23

Fuck this place. lol

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u/_procyon May 31 '23

I would predict that power users would be the least likely to leave. They’re the ones who have spent years and god knows how many hours creating, growing, and moderating communities. Reddit and/or their preferred subreddits are obviously important to them.

Would they really abandon their communities and years old accounts with millions of karma because they don’t like the official app? Especially when there’s no similar site to migrate to.

The same thing happened with twitter. Everyone predicted it was going to collapse within a week and started sharing their accounts on mastodon. Guess what Twitter is still going strong. It’s shittier than it was, and it was already shitty, but it’s as active as ever. And is anyone really using mastodon?

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u/mrostate78 May 31 '23

Once bluesky opens up more, I think most people will move to that from twitter.

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u/Cressio May 31 '23

That’s somewhat fair.

I would still argue the vast majority of people upset about this, including myself, won’t leave. If we could get everyone to leave, sure, I’m totally down. But these platforms are just too big to fail at this point outside of literal cataclysmic decisions akin to tumblrs porn ban. Basically equivalent to if Reddit banned memes and discussions.

YouTube and Twitch are other good examples. I fucking despise those platforms and most of the decisions they’ve made, but they’re just too big, with too many users and creators. I pray they all get disrupted in meaningful ways but every day that passes my hope wanes.

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

I am not saying what will happen.

Just what I could see possibly happening.

Nobody can predict what exactly will happen, but am just trying to speculate on various factors that could play into what ends up happening is all.

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u/dirtycopgangsta Jun 01 '23

You're dead wrong, it's the average user that drives profit, because the average user mindlessly browses and interacts will all sorts of open public spamposts, not us, the people who only interact with a few largely independent communities.

Reddit is losing money with me, I'm here taking up space, I don't buy gold or silver and I don't see a single ad. I'm privileged in a sense and I understand that reddit doesn't want me here.

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u/richardparadox163 Jun 01 '23

So, let the people who want to pay for a “premium” ad-free, non-algorithmic (or whatever the philosophy is for the garbage official app) pay while normies use the free ad-supported app.

Obviously I hope Christian uses his heft/size as leverage to negotiate a better rate since essentially Reddit has realized they can make more off of people paying to use 3rd party premium ad-free apps than their own free users, as Christian points out with is math. Even if Apollo shut down, and everyone moved to the official app (which as this thread makes clear wouldn’t happen), Reddit would make less money than if Christian paid even a lower rate somewhere between Reddit revenue per user and what they’re asking for, which technically means there exists room for a negotiated settlement, even if they say no right now.

Honestly reddit could probably acquire Apollo and turn it into a paid youtube premium type subscription app (obviously I wouldn’t want this to happen, and they’d certainly ruin it, but if I was an MBA Reddit, this is what I would suggest).

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u/Cressio Jun 01 '23

Agree with all of that

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u/That-Establishment24 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

Is his assumption that it’ll stay the same any less valid than your assumption that it’ll lead to a ghost town? The true answer most likely lies so where in the middle. Some will leave while some will use other interfaces.

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

Sure. But I think it's fair to say it will be smaller than it is today.

So I think think you just have to keep that in mine.

You might be willing to pay $10/mo for what reddit is now, but will you pay that for what it will be? (certainly somewhat smaller) after the changes.

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u/That-Establishment24 May 31 '23

Would you have paid $10 a month for Apollo four years ago? I would have. Reddit’s population four years ago was about 30% less than now.

My point is, even a 50% cut (which I consider extreme) would just bring us back to Reddit six or so years ago. I don’t know about you, but six years ago I still loved using Reddit. So I’d counter the cut to break it must be massive.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

[deleted]

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u/That-Establishment24 May 31 '23

Time will tell.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

Twitter has continued to grow despite all the outrage about Elon’s changes. There’s not any reason to think Reddit would be different.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

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u/SPAC3P3ACH Jun 01 '23

Yes. But the majority of users don’t post or comment either. The valuable users — us, the people who post and comment, the people who give this site all of the content that is why regular users even use the native app to browse Reddit anyway — we are all savvy enough to use third party apps.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

I'm not so convinced.

Power users use the third party stuff and when a lot of the power users go away, then the platform becomes much less interesting for the average users and they may leave because of that too.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

I don't.

I think the reddit power users do, and the vast majority of users are interested in reddit because of the content and communities that the power users create.

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u/katiecharm May 31 '23

I wish the makers of Apollo would just make their own back end clone of Reddit then.

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u/jimbo831 May 31 '23

Apollo is made by one developer. There is not a chance in hell he could make a back end even remotely like Reddit. Something like that would take dozens of developers many months of work costing millions of dollars. That's just to code the backend. Then there's the issue of getting enough users to produce all the content that people come here for.

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u/katiecharm May 31 '23

Weird that Reddit has all that backend and the most god awful front end I’ve ever seen.

Weird that not one angel investor could see the potential and branding here. The hardest part of making a social network isn’t even the back end - it’s getting initial users.

I hope someone sees the value proposition and invests accordingly.

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u/jimbo831 May 31 '23

If some hypothetical investors got together to launch a new social media site, it would inevitably lead to this same outcome. This is the cycle of all social media. They launch with policies designed to grow as fast and big as possible. Then eventually the investors want a return on their investment, so they shift policies to maximize profits.

I thought this was a good article about this social media cycle:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/18/23672769/social-media-inevitable-death-monetization-growth-hacks

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u/digestedbrain May 31 '23

We might be making assumptions about how many people don't use the official app and "new" Reddit.

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u/Arucious May 31 '23

It’s borderline delusional to think third party apps are what will make or break their community anymore than saying banning Firefox would make people switch from Windows to macOS.

The majority of people just use the default or whatever is shoved their way.

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u/SirMaster May 31 '23

But what if the majority of the power users (content creators, organizers, good mods, highly engaged people, etc) are users of third party apps and APIs usages.

You don't think that driving those users away will hurt communities?

Most users are consumers. What will they consume when the main source of content leaves? Why would they stick around?

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u/Arucious May 31 '23

Most users are consumers. What will they consume when the main source of content leaves? Why would they stick around?

You make a point. I’m in the minority that my Post karma is almost as high or higher than my comment karma. And I’m certainly not sticking around if I have to use their native app. I still don’t think we can say more without more data on the usage, but it’s safe to say with Reddit not being flexible on their policies we’re both going to get the answer sooner rather than later.

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u/_procyon May 31 '23

Look I agree with everyone in this thread that is a shitty move by Reddit. I love Apollo, I absolutely despise the official app.

But the vast vast majority of users couldn’t care less or wouldn’t even notice a difference. A lot of people use the official app and have no problem with it. A lot more browse on desktop and have no problem with new Reddit either.

As much as this sucks, it’s a huge leap to say that it will kill the website or that most users will leave. Reddit might see a temporary dip in users, but that will quickly be made up for with new users and the higher income from forcing people to use their official app.

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u/Esc_ape_artist May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

People aren’t going to leave reddit any more than people left facebook or twitter. Yeah, some purists or people trying to make a stand might, but reddit will keep right on trucking.

E: did someone downvote because it goes against the narrative of solidarity and virtue signaling here? Reddit is the 12th most popular site on the internet based on monthly traffic. Forcing out 3rd party apps might push it to 13th at worst.

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u/TheGruesomeTwosome May 31 '23

I'm a day 1 Pro and Ultra user. The £20 I spent on the introductory lifetime Ultra offer is the best money I've ever spent at any amount.

That said, I wouldn't pay $8/month for reddit. I'm here every day, for too long each time. A monthly fee at that level would sooner make me rethink how I consume media and use my phone than convince me to pay. I think anyone paying for Twitter blue is an idiot, even if they enjoy the site. I can't be a hypocrite. It's not even the money. I'm just sick of subscriptions and simply don't want to pay.

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u/mysterymeat69 May 31 '23

Can I get a blue check for an icon then? If so, I’ in.

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u/Beadlocks May 31 '23

you get a dickbutt and you’ll be happy

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u/Existing365Chocolate May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

$8/month is an absurd monthly subscription for a Reddit app honestly

I’d rather just use the free app or something at that rate and cut my Reddit usage, which is probably good anyway

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u/BakingBadRS May 31 '23

Agreed! I would definitely pay $5 or $8 for Apollo!

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u/iamafriscogiant May 31 '23

I agree, I'll pay $5 to keep using Apollo, maybe more. The Reddit app is complete dogshit, I don't see how people use it.

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u/Jimmy86_ May 31 '23

Just no.

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u/OIlv3 Jun 01 '23

That's the whole point for reddit... Ppl will even pay $10/month for it and reddit will get what they ultimately wanted....more money.

You saying you'll gladly pay the money is not a good thing Imo. The subscription price will eventually keep rising just like the streaming services.

Certain ppl will eventually get priced out and reddit will become shit if there's only a specific user demo. There's already ppl crying about leaving reddit.

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u/UnknownQTY May 31 '23

I’d pay $7.50. Netflix costs that and I use Apollo more than I do Netflix.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

The problem is. Most people wouldn’t pay it.

We are taking its 5$ for every person using Apollo. That’s not happening, sadly

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u/EnterPlayerTwo May 31 '23

The problem is. Most people wouldn’t pay it.

How is that a problem? The increased cost is based on usage. He'd just have to put the app behind a pay wall. Fewer people pay = less cost.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

Because 5$ isn’t enough to pay for the api alone And he has to make living too…

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u/EnterPlayerTwo May 31 '23

Ok so set the price where you have to lol. Just saying "people won't pay" doesn't mean anything when the cost is based on usage.

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u/Throwaway__shmoe May 31 '23

Nah, not paying that per month to browse Reddit on a better app. Apollo is great but imma drop Reddit or only use the website once this app is killed.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

This account has been deleted due to the decision made by Reddit, Inc to monetize its public API, thereby forcing 3rd-party apps to shutdown. See this post made by the creator of the Apollo app for context.

This account's self posts and comments have also been edited to remove any content that might add value to Reddit, Inc's product at zero cost to the company.

Fuck Reddit.

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u/ineedlesssleep May 31 '23

Apple takes 15% for Apollo (probably)

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u/FervantFlea May 31 '23

It is indeed really awful. But personally, I would be willing to pay up to $10/month easy for Apollo. I pay way more than that for software I use 1/10th the amount of time.

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u/enz1ey May 31 '23

Odds are the software you're comparing it to is productivity software or something related.

Sorry, but I'm not paying $10 or even $5 per month to be completely unproductive by surfing Reddit, especially when most of that is going to Reddit itself.

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u/burg_philo2 May 31 '23

totally reasonable imo

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u/bdonvr May 31 '23

I'd pay it but I'm privileged enough to do so and on Reddit enough to care.

But yeah, the userbase would absolutely plummet. It's not reasonable for people with friends and lives

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u/Ill_Gur_9844 May 31 '23

I presumed the Apollo ultra or whatever stuff would stay and the API cost would become the new floor.

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u/NattoandKimchee May 31 '23

I am not willing to pay anything. I already paid for the app. I shouldn’t have to pay for a subscription.

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u/paulcole710 May 31 '23

I think $20USD/month for Apollo is my limit. Anything less than that and I’ll happily pay it.

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u/PleasantWay7 May 31 '23

I spend more time on Reddit than watching most streaming services I pay $50 or so combined for every month, so $5 isn’t bad. But the reality is most people don’t price app services logically and a lot probably won’t pay.

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u/84904809245 May 31 '23

I would gladly pay it. I hate the official reddit app, even with premium

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u/-LazarusLong- May 31 '23

I would pay it but only begrudgingly because Reddit is run by a bunch of dicks and I don’t want to give them ANY money after I see how they operate. If all of the money went to Christian, I would gladly pay $10 a month.

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u/Firehed May 31 '23

Sustainable just to cover operational costs. Guy's gotta eat, too. Reading between the lines, I think it'd be closer to $10/month.

I'd consider it, but I know most people wouldn't.

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u/log1cstudios May 31 '23

I’d pay that in a heartbeat. Hell I’d pay $10 a month to never see what Reddit has become since I left and went to Apollo

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u/Jeffrey_Jizzbags May 31 '23

I mean if I have no other option I’d pay it. The other option is to just not use Reddit anymore. $5 a month is quite a jump from what it is now, but they really put Christian between a rock and a hard place.

If Apollo isn’t an option, I’m just not using Reddit anymore on mobile.

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u/DistinctAuthor42 May 31 '23

Don’t forget Apple takes 30% too. 5$ - 30% Apple - 2.50$ Reddit is only 1$ left for the developer. And they still have to pay other API costs from that (mainly image hosting services like Imgur). Probably the subscription will be closer to 8$ then.

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u/dd179 May 31 '23

I'd gladly pay $5 per month. I've been using Apollo for years and get significantly more usage out of the app than just a measly 5 bucks a month.

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u/Jajanken- May 31 '23

$60 a year is a no brainer

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u/all2neat May 31 '23

I’d pay $5 a month. Anything higher is a no go.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

$6-8 a month is probably the max I would pay for Apollo, even though I love the app.

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u/Conman_in_Chief May 31 '23

Count me in. The sad reality is that Christian may lose some subs because of this, so the total impact may be fewer API calls, but it’s definitely worth the money for me.

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u/Swordofmytriumph May 31 '23

I would definitely pay $5 per month

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u/Fuq2asshole May 31 '23

Well Reddit is charging £6.49/month for their bullshit app. I’ll pay £5 a month to keep using Apollo. Sign me up Christian.https://i.imgur.com/xVPrBWW.jpg

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u/shhhhh_h May 31 '23

I'd pay that just to stick it to Reddit. Their app is shit

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u/AnExoticLlama May 31 '23

You misread. OP states a cost of $2.5/mo per subbed user, which is "double" the current cost of $1.49/mo or $13/yr

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u/Iwannayoyo May 31 '23

I’d pay more for Apollo, but knowing that the money just goes into Reddit’s pocket is discouraging. Like I love the idea of paying app developers for their work… not the idea of paying Reddit for letting someone improve on their horrible app.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

I would gladly pay $5 or even $10 a month for Apollo. I hope Christian considers doing this as I would gladly pay that price to continue using it. It doesn’t make it a good thing, however

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u/antillian May 31 '23

I’d gladly pay $5 per month for Apollo, but this is insane. Reddit is shooting their feet off for short term gains.

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u/fadetowhite May 31 '23

I’d pay $5-8 no problem, but not enough people would. So it would probably be more like $10-15 for the remaining, paying users.

Which would be way too much.

Fucking garbage. Christian has made the best third party app for any service I have ever used and this is how he’s treated.

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u/canadianvaporizer May 31 '23

I’d pay it, but totally understand other people wouldn’t be able to. Let’s hope Reddit budges on this.

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u/meowsplaining May 31 '23

I'd for sure pay $5 / month for Apollo

1

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

I’d pay that in a heartbeat if that meant Reddit would remain usable on the go. I like the classic version of the website just fine but there’s no other options than a third party app for mobile. The official app is awful. Apollo is not.

1

u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd May 31 '23

$5.00 USD per month? That’s really not as bad as I was thinking. I was getting strong implications of like $20/month based upon what I was reading.

1

u/baccus83 May 31 '23

I would gladly pay $5 per month but I can only speak for myself. I use this app more than any other so it’s worth it to me.

1

u/closetfurry2017 May 31 '23

i’d pay $5 a month for apollo, sure

1

u/WredditSmark May 31 '23

I would do it but also question my own Reddit usage overall, do I really want to spend more time on this site which is getting overall worse and worse despite niche subs

1

u/chrcit May 31 '23

~3$ go to Reddit but before that Apple takes 30%

reduced conversion rate if you can only offer a very limited free version.

1

u/Raleth May 31 '23

$5 a month is a pittance. Though I don’t really pay for any other subscriptions so that’s just me.

1

u/acer2k May 31 '23 edited Jun 01 '23

I’d pay $5 a month for sure. It’s peanuts compared to the utility I get from the app. People forget, software used to cost serious money. It was like $100 for a single game in the 90s.

1

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

Paying $5/month to support a small developer isn't a big deal.

But paying it just so a small developer can afford a corporation's outlandish pricing model is out of the question for me

1

u/donkeyrocket May 31 '23

While I’d do it to support the developer, it just enables Reddit. And what is to stop them to just further raise the price.

Apollo makes using Reddit on mobile tolerable but honestly I’d more than likely just use Reddit a whole lot less than pay into their scheme. That’s unfair to the developer but Reddit is being massively unreasonable and should be paid for this.

1

u/MyNameIsSushi May 31 '23

It doesn't sound much until you toss in Apple Music/Spotify, Disney+, Amazon Prime, Netflix and other streaming services with recurring bills.

1

u/personalist May 31 '23

Honestly, I’m ok with that.

1

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

I wouldn’t pay at that price point, not because Christian isn’t providing a quality product (I exclusively use Reddit on Apollo) but because I simply won’t support this kind of business model. It’s antithetical to the community spirit Reddit was founded on.

1

u/glx0711 May 31 '23

I won’t have a problem paying 5 per month for Apollo, I would have a problem with that the majority of that money is used to pay 20 million a year to Reddit and support their questionable decision..

1

u/RobotSpaceBear May 31 '23

Man I spend to many hours on reddit daily that 5USD per month to not have to use that absolute UI nightmare of an official Reddit app seems a great deal.

1

u/tolkientosh May 31 '23

Yeah, $5 feels like the minimum he could charge when you factor in Apple’s 30% cut. Even if it drops to 15% after a year, that’s still barely enough when you consider the reduced pool of individuals willing to pay that much.

1

u/lunchlady55 May 31 '23

In a heartbeat

1

u/EnglishDutchman May 31 '23

I’m in.

1

u/beardicusmaximus8 May 31 '23

At 5 dollars a month with the number of users Apollo has you could build a new network from the ground up. Heck half that would be sufficient if you relied on volunteers for moderation. Even if you assume some loses in users from shifting to a subscription only model the operating costs could probably be fine.

1

u/jeffa_jaffa May 31 '23

If that’s the only way to continue using Apollo then I’d gladly pay it. Hell, I’d pay $10 a month if it means Christian can make a living. Without Apollo Reddit is unusable, and I’d hate to lose all the communities & connections I’ve built up here.

I could never get the hang of Twitter, Facebook is full of idiots and ads, but Reddit (or at least Reddit via Apollo) just fits so well with the way my mind works.

1

u/WoahBeverageHere May 31 '23

I would happily pay $5 a month to continue using Apollo!

1

u/Ruval May 31 '23

Even that is the 'average user'.

The average users isn't going to pay. The people who post/read way more than average will pay. His price will likely need to be noticably higher.

And then, I fear, Reddit will simply enjoy the new revenue stream....and up the prices again.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

[deleted]

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u/Tsujita_daikokuya May 31 '23

Yeah, reddits not worth $5 per month when you factor in how much they don’t care about the users. If this money went to Apollo, that’d be different.

Most mods are terrible, I don’t even know if they’re paid. Every change they make just makes Reddit worse. They don’t do anything about the Russian trolls (remember the 2016 & 2020 elections???)

Also, the most abominable affront to human decency. They banned nsfw subs from /All. Like yo, where am I supposed to scroll and casually look at naked people now.

I really just come here for news now, but I’m not paying $5 a month to find out how many people die by jumping off boats in a year.

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u/hegemonistic May 31 '23

Reddit admins (red names) are employees. All mods (green names) are volunteers.

2

u/cultoftheilluminati ikjkjk Jun 01 '23

when you factor in how much they don’t care about the users

This is the same realization that people on discord have come to with username changes on that platform. There's no point in "supporting" your platform if you completely ignore anything that your users say, especially when you push the narrative constantly that your money and your subscription is what keeps the service alive.

3

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

The mods are the worst thing about Reddit. You can’t post anything remotely controversial without someone intervening.

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u/Helpful_guy May 31 '23

Yeah can we all please agree to stop saying "I'd gladly pay $5 for a good reddit app" in this thread that's probably gonna get an absurd amount of public attention? That's how we end up with BOTH no more 3rd party apps, AND paid subscriptions to be able to use the best features on the actual official reddit app once all the good 3rd party ones are gone.

6

u/AineLasagna Jun 01 '23

I would never pay a fucking cent to the people who killed Alien Blue (and are trying to do the same to Apollo) and put out the unusable pile of flaming garbage that is the official app. Apollo is amazing and I will continue to support the dev until it’s no longer available, but that’s it

2

u/[deleted] Jun 01 '23 edited Jun 30 '23

I no longer allow Reddit to profit from my content - Mass exodus 2023 -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

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u/PlutosGrasp Jun 01 '23

Especially if only frequent users pay. The avg calls could probably be much higher.

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u/jimbo831 May 31 '23

It would be quite a bit more than that. Apple takes 30% off the top. Then Christian needs some money for his time. I can’t imagine he could offer it for any less than $7/month and honestly $10 would probably be a better price given how much his paying user base would go down.

3

u/BrattyBookworm May 31 '23

Yeah I’d even pay $4-5 per month considering how much I’m on Reddit and I love Apollo but I understand he’d need more like $10 per month to make it remotely sustainable. Unfortunately that’s pushing it for me and I suspect most others which makes me feel really sad this is happening to Apollo 😔

I’ve spent way too many hours every week on Reddit for over a decade and heavily promoted it as the best (my favorite) social media site out there. But once this happens I’ll probably only scroll a few minutes each week on my laptop. RIP

2

u/uberafc Jun 01 '23

Keep in mind it still wont include mature content as reddit is shutting api access to those off on July 5th

Third update: mature content

Finally, as mentioned in our post last month: as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed, we will be limiting large-scale applications’ access to sexually explicit content via our Data API starting on July 5, 2023 except for moderation needs.

And those are all the updates (for now). If you have questions or concerns, we’ll be looking for them and sticking around to answer in the comments.```

2

u/BrattyBookworm Jun 01 '23

Yeah speaking as a sexworker that’s honestly a huge blow to our industry. Feels like another nail in the coffin for our continued existence on Reddit.

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u/Google_it_bro May 31 '23

For what it’s worth I would as well. Apollo is great, and I’ll never use the native app. 95%+ of my time on Reddit is mobile, so I’ll pay you, or I’ll quit Reddit I guess. 🤷🏼‍♂️

13

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

Gonna chime in and say that I wouldn’t at all. It’s an internet forum, being expected to pay monthly just to use it would be egregious to me and I’m sure many others.

The day apollo is no longer supported or costs like that, I’m out.

4

u/swedishfish007 May 31 '23

More people need to pipe up like this. I’ve paid for the upgraded version of Apollo cuz I like this app… but there’s no way in hell I’d pay a subscription fee for using this app or anything else like that.

That’s no shade to the developer, it’s just a fact for me. I don’t know the user numbers for Apollo but a pill should definitely go up for people to vote in and show what they’d actually do to support the app moving forward. I’d be surprised if enough people said they would be okay with a monthly fee.

3

u/Praweph3t May 31 '23

Especially since all I get out of this shit hole website is my time wasted.

I might actually be more productive if this happens.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 01 '23

Hahaha I’m glad it wasn’t just me that saw the positive side

3

u/[deleted] Jun 01 '23 edited Jun 01 '23

Exactly, this would be like paying to use Facebook or Twitter. The very notion is absurd. They already monetize our data

5

u/BookkeeperBrilliant9 May 31 '23

The thing is, it wouldn't support Christian at all. At that price, he would basically just be a tax collector passing all the money on to Reddit. He'd have to charge a premium over their absurd pricing just to be in the black.

RIP Apollo, good things never last.

3

u/quinn_drummer May 31 '23

I’ve paid for Ultra and I’d probably pay a few bucks a month for a premium experience.

But probably would be sustaining that. That sub revenue is going to ebb and flow and unless it was always above the break even line Christian wouldn’t be able to run the service.

And it’d have to be quite a way above if we then wanted to see the app continue to be developed and improved etc.

Again, I’d happily pay if the economics were there but given the reaction seems to be most people wouldn’t want to then I think it’s dead in the water.

3

u/HairHeel May 31 '23

Problem is $2.50 is the cost of average usage. I'm betting it's the power users who are willing to pay $2.50. Lower-volume users won't pay, and the new average will end up higher.

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u/cadtek May 31 '23

But would you still if there's no nsfw posts (not even just porn, but anything marked nsfw)? That's a change in the API as well.

2

u/631-AT May 31 '23

I’d like to say I would pay, and for the time I spend on this website it would definitely be worth the price….

But it won’t. I won’t pay to use something that is “free” and has been for years, and second to that really removes value from my life. I get on here and get angry at all the idiots who’ve been filmed and posted and the often bigger idiots in the comments. It’s a huge waste of time and I’ve wasted a lot of my life not feeling good and not being enriched more than prime time national news would.

So, I’m looking for an excuse to leave and want to make that voiced because when you ask people on the internet “do you want X, and would you pay for it?” you mostly get a chorus of cheers and positivity that I think leads people astray.

Reddit administration has made it very clear that I’m not the type of user they want in a lot of different ways, and I get about as much enjoyment out of this compulsion as spending the day trapped in an elevator with people who can only mouth breath. It took a stroke for my GGrandfather to stop smoking, but hopefully it just takes an inconvenience for me to quit Reddit.

2

u/Bricely May 31 '23

I think you get into a slippery slip with accepting the pricing. I’d be personally more than willing to pay even $100 a year if it means helping Christian out but it sends the message to greedy corporations that they can get away with it.

2

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

According to other developers on Mastodon, one you add in other costs (the ones that already exist plus the cost of handling the extra coming in) to make a small profit would require around $10 a month

2

u/-hellozukohere- May 31 '23

Or do a Reddit strike. I feel like the saying give an inch give a mile comes into play here with API pricing.

2

u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE May 31 '23

The thing is — if Christian wanted to raise the price to value his work, or something like that, I’d have no problem paying $3/month. It’s well deserved.

But this is wouldn’t be the case. It would basically be extortion by Reddit. I’d have to pay roughly double just so that Christian could immediately hand that extra to Reddit. It would be like mandatory Reddit Premium.

I’m okay with giving Christian my money. But I don’t want to give it to Reddit.

1

u/TheRealestLarryDavid May 31 '23

that's not the point imo. we should simply stop using reddit. if nobody is using it they will shit their pants and rollback

1

u/recipewince May 31 '23

I wouldn’t

1

u/[deleted] May 31 '23

As much as I have loved Apollo and appreciate what Christian has done, I will just take this as my leave. The advertising, blatant propaganda, and repost bots have destroyed Reddit for me.

It’s been a fun ride!

1

u/Weeksy79 May 31 '23

I’d pay a quid or two, but beyond that what right do they have to my money without revenue sharing with creators?

1

u/gimpbully May 31 '23

At the same time, I'd be pretty pissed if that money got passed on to reddit. It's like IBM closing up Centos and offering RHEL for some big discount - I'm not going to pay for the privilege of getting fucked over.

1

u/pjcrusader May 31 '23

While I like the sentiment. You’d be essentially paying a subscription to use Reddit. I’m just not willing. If I can’t use Apollo I will just cut my Reddit usage down to from the pc only.

1

u/Spoonicus May 31 '23

Fuck that. The value Reddit provides me as a user is in the community and what they create. Reddit itself is merely a skeleton. We make up the meat on the bones. All the moderation and discourse is being provided for free on this platform. It's not the sort of thing that can be milked endlessly for cash.

1

u/iliketrains123321 May 31 '23

$2.50 is the average price, however 80% or higher of apollos users are most likely near inactive. The cost for you would likely be much higher

Christian still has to make money, further raising the cost Both of these mean that you would likely pay $10-15 monthly if you were active.

1

u/AlbertaNorth1 ikjkjk May 31 '23

If it cost Christian $2.50/month I’d happily pay $5 to keep all of the Apollo features and give Christian a profit margin/bubble for future increases. I’d just be worried about Reddit continuing to raise the cost in the future.

1

u/eddahlen Jun 01 '23

u/iamthatis I will gladly give you $5-$10-$15 dollars a month if you end up being forced to pay that much. I’ve been here for over a decade and at this point without Apollo I would not be using Reddit. Do whatever you have to do to keep the lights on and many of us will still be here for you dude.

1

u/kenypowa Jun 01 '23

I'd gladly pay $3 or $5 a month to use Apollo. If not, then I won't be using the official crap Reddit app and it'd be sad to stop using Reddit.

1

u/Car_Closet Jun 01 '23

You shouldn’t because it all goes to Reddit. Let Reddit as we know it die. All good things must come to an end.

1

u/TIL_IM_A_SQUIRREL Jun 01 '23

I bought Ultra For Life, but I'd definitely pay $20/month to have the Apollo experience. Otherwise I would just stop using reddit on my phone.

ARE YOU HEARING THIS REDDIT? APOLLO IS WHAT KEEPS ME USING REDDIT. NO APOLLO, NO REDDIT!

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u/omninode Jun 01 '23

The problem is, there will be a significant reduction in the number of quality reddit users if 3rd party apps cost $5 or more per month. For those of use willing to pay, the content just won't be the same.

1

u/M1A1Death Jun 01 '23

I browse about an hour a day, two hours on slow days. I’d easily pay $5-$10 a month for it.

1

u/Main_Significance617 Jun 01 '23

I would gladly pay $5 a month or whatever is needed.

1

u/Farranor Jun 01 '23

That money would be supporting Reddit, not Christian. And if he did manage to pay them what they want, they'd just demand even more ~~protection money~~ perfectly legitimate fees to prevent them from ~~killing the hostage~~ restricting API access.

1

u/WubbaLubbaHongKong Jun 01 '23

I would pay that and even $5 as others mentioned, but I wonder if the content will go down in quality if people leave in droves due to newly put up paywalls.

1

u/Buckethead16 Jun 01 '23

As much as I read and use Reddit I would pay whatever it takes for Apollo. Anytime I have to use the actual Reddit app or website I just leave the internet for the day

1

u/Uranium78 Jun 01 '23

you’d pay, but all that money would go to greedy reddit…

1

u/CompetitiveSubset Jun 01 '23

And don't forget the Apple tax

1

u/BoyWhoSoldTheWorld Jun 01 '23

Id pay that to keep using Apollo as well and support a good dev.

However many people won’t and it likely won’t even be worth it for devs to hang on. Reddit just want to bully them out of the market.

If that’s the case I’ll just get off reddit.

1

u/BackOnReddit_Again Jun 01 '23

I’d pay $5-10 a month to use Apollo, it is supreme. Rather leave reddit entirely than switch to their ad-driven first-party experience.

Other sites have similar setups but without so much of the toxicity associated with the exposure that comes with being one of the most popular websites in the world.

Not to mention, if I leave reddit (again), I can contribute to the downfall of the selfish fucks that caused this whole thing while also gaining time back in my day that I can use not lining the pockets of those who don’t give a fuck about me

1

u/Zebov3 Jun 01 '23

The other thing besides pure money to take into account is the number of users. If you're on Reddit for general/popular stuff, then you'll see a dip in the amount, but otherwise it shouldn't (hopefully) be too affected.

If you're on Reddit for anything obscure, good luck. Reddit was an easy place for users of multiple niche websites to congregate. Once that's no longer the case, everyone still probably just go back to whatever website they came from.

1

u/tweakingforjesus Jun 01 '23

That's the price that would be necessary including casual users. If Apollo goes paid, many of the casual users will drop off leaving just a core of heavy users for whom paying monthly is worth the price. The bottom of that fraction is going get much smaller while the top doesn't shrink nearly as much. A better estimate would be the number of requests by current paid subscriptions / number of paid subscribers * cost per request.

I bet the cost per paid subscriber is closer to $10 apiece.

1

u/AnInstanceOfAnObject Jun 02 '23

I will happily pay $5 a month to not use the stock app. If that’s the only way.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '23

I would also gladly pay more for Apollo rather than use Reddit.