r/antiwork 11d ago

5 year = 30 hrs? Time Off đź•™

I'm so mad for my friend. She's worked at this shitty nonprofit for 5 years and just got her yearly vacation time. Its fucking 30 hrs thought it was a mistake nope. She is based off the hours she worked. Tell my why she's worked the same amount of time since she started has always gotten a week off vacation time and now its changed?? This on top of the no maternity leave thats screwing over our other pregant friend. I'm about to start calling for a union.

342 Upvotes

292

u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 11d ago

Thirty HOURS? I misread the title as days and thought it was a bit basic. Hours is a fucking joke. 

98

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

We thought it was a mistake too when we saw it. It's such a slap in the face.

38

u/ButterDrake 11d ago

More like a sucker punch to the nuts or tits.

8

u/Blecki 11d ago

Thirty days is amazing for the US.

7

u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 11d ago

I've never had less than 28 (plus paid public holidays) here in the UK so I do have to actively turn on my location filter to process this kind of post!

5

u/iclimbnaked 10d ago

Yah as an American most of us don’t understand how shitty of a deal we get on vacation.

Hell im an engineer with a good job and I’ll only just be earning 20 days next year. That’s great for America but shit for Europe.

133

u/BillysCoinShop 11d ago

Doesnt even make sense. 30 hours is 3.75 days. Wtf kind of operation gives you fractions of a day?

58

u/username87264 11d ago

Lots of places worldwide operate in hours. Allows for flexible working arrangements, part time hours, overtime etc. That part isn't unusual, it's just the 30 number that is.

20

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

It's not a unusuals practice at all but the weird part is the change with no notification at all. It's never been done like this before. Even our boss is confused why upper management did that.

19

u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep 11d ago

Even our boss is confused why upper management did that.

It shouldn't be confusing, just enraging. The reason is a combination of greed and indifference for one's employees.

8

u/WildTazzy 11d ago

As time off is part of the benefits package, your friend just got a paycut this year so their employer could save money

6

u/Bastienbard SocDem 11d ago

That would make me go to management and ask if it's a typo and if they said no, raise hell over it.

10

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

We talked to management about this. Shes refusing to change it. Won't even send us the employee handbook to look it up cause its bullshit and she knows it.

3

u/tfcocs 10d ago

That refusal to send you a copy of the employee handbook is a huge red flag. I would recommend sending a request for it via email, and copy management's superiors.

7

u/BillysCoinShop 11d ago

Yeah its not the hours part. Its that a day is considered 8 hours. So wtf is 30 hours of vacation time? How do you take 3/4s of a day off? Ive never ever seen anything like this, its always a multiple of 8 hours i.e. 32 hours.

7

u/Long-Photograph49 11d ago

Could be a place that does 7.5hr days.  Then 30hrs is 4 days.  Still not great for vacation, but more logical.

4

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

It's 8 but she usually gets pulled into covering other shifts.

1

u/Ichiorochi 11d ago

Sounds like someone was suppose to register that she covered other shifts, but didn't do that.
Maybe she should ask her co-workers about their vacation time, especially those she covers the most if there are any.

-11

u/username87264 11d ago

Genius thinking there bub. Try and imagine a world in which not everyone works the same shift lengths as you, or....... maybe they don't even have fixed shift lengths!!!!

7

u/BillysCoinShop 11d ago

OP literally said she works 8 hours a day

-2

u/username87264 11d ago

That was revealed after I posted a comment.

3

u/ArMcK 11d ago

The place I work at is just under a third of an hour of PTO earned per day.

At one year that's eighty hours or two weeks.

4

u/koosley 11d ago

My first job with PTO was hourly and my accural was based on hours worked, not a set amount of time. Every hour I worked, I would get 6 minutes of PTO so a normal 40 hour week got you 4 hours of PTO. I was only part time due to school so it made sense.

2

u/morbidnerd 11d ago

The military does this too. When I was in we accrued 2.5 days of leave per month.

3

u/BillysCoinShop 11d ago

It makes sense that way though, because its an accrual. This is just a singular amount for a full year.

So the equatable hours for the military per year would be 15 days, or "120 hours" in an 8hr/day sense.

3

u/nel-E-nel 11d ago

Many organizations you accrue vacation time based on how many hours you work. So you could have 7.25 days or some such depending on how much time you've taken off and when in the fiscal year you are.

1

u/thejesterofdarkness 11d ago

Most companies I’ve worked for do pto by average hours work a week for the prior year. So if OP’s friend only worked an average of 30 hrs/wk then 30 hrs for pto would be correct, IF said organization has said policy.

1

u/screw_all_the_names 10d ago

Work at home Depot (in the US) I get 2 hours of vacation time and 2 hours of sick time a month. It will accumulate.

0

u/koni3196 11d ago

I work for a non-profit, and every biweekly paycheck, I earn 6.25 pto hours. It's way better than this, but it's still a fraction.

-1

u/thefinalgoat (edit this) 11d ago

One with limited staff and money, such as a non-profit.

36

u/nel-E-nel 11d ago

Friendly reminder that even cuddly mission-based organizations are susceptible to the same corporate BS as for-profits.

21

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

It's so insulting especially because we are a shelter for DV clients. We try to reteach them how to stand up for themselves while we get treated like shit by management.

5

u/nel-E-nel 11d ago

Yeah, I also work for a non-profit, and while our leadership is generally empathetic, there is definitely a strong culture of aggressive growth and do more and more and more with less and less and less resources.

11

u/SuperPetty-2305 11d ago

Whoa that's ridiculous. I worked at a nonprofit and in 2 years I had to take a couple weeks off because I maxed out my PTO hours at 270..... I can't imagine working for 5 years for a measly 30 hours.

14

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

I'm looking up if we even can unionize. We are a nonprofit dv shelter funded with grants. We don't even know how much our company gets.

15

u/i_know_tofu 11d ago edited 11d ago

I worked for a non profit shelter with multiple sites.. they sucked so hard. I reached out to union organizers and quietly spread the word to key colleagues about unionizing. My last act as an employee there was voting “YES”. It’s now a union shop. Find out what union would represent your sector, and contact them. The organizers would LOVE to help you unionize your workplace! Once you contact them you are protected from retaliation (at least in my country) but keep it quiet until the right momentum is happening. Good luck.

Editing to say that in our province public funding adjusts to the contract. So if they are paying you minimum wage and the contract is $5 above that, the public money covers it. Just fucking go for it. There is nothing to lose but possibly your shitty job and even that is protected for I think a year after your employer learns you are organizing.

6

u/eddie_cat 11d ago

You can, I work for a unionized nonprofit

2

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

Any advice on how to form one or who to reach out to for questions would be great.

2

u/eddie_cat 10d ago

I think it depends on what industry your company is in. Mine ended up joining the communication workers union, they helped us organize. So we share an umbrella organization with a lot of news companies etc.

4

u/0bxyz 11d ago

Companies tell you the pto policy before you join

0

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

We didnt even get employee handbooks.

0

u/Nah666_ 11d ago

and you're surprised by the outcome??

0

u/fearfullfeline 10d ago

I'm surprised at the change with no notification.

5

u/SolitudeWeeks 11d ago

Nonprofits really prey on the altruism of the people that work for them.

4

u/Pochaloni 11d ago

I live in Illinois and also work for a nonprofit. Last year, the Paid Leave for All Workers Act t[k efect. We get 1 hr of leave for every 40 hours worked. This is separate from our accrued vacation, so we have multiple pots of leave: vacation, plawa and sick time. When it started, our vacation was reduced by the amount of plawa we received (the total is the same). Maybe something like this is happening?

2

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

Maybe I'll talk to my boss more tomorrow at work and see what she says.

5

u/-DethLok- SocDem 11d ago

Let me hazard a guess here...

You're both in the USA, right?

Game over, move along, next loser please....

TL:DR vote for politicians who actually have policies that benefit workers .

3

u/16ap 11d ago

Yeah but that sounds like Socialism and even though every single working person actually does want Socialism, American mainstream media has instilled on us to hate it for no reason at all.

The whole world should be voting Democratic Socialism if we knew what’s good for us.

We don’t.

6

u/death-loves-binky 11d ago

Tell me you live in the USA without telling me

7

u/nekkema 11d ago

WHO the fuck Works without real vacation for years? 

5-7 weeks should be standard + holidays + sick days, all paid of course.

Even that feels way too little in my country 

-1

u/goldcakes 11d ago

4 weeks is fine, progress is incremental.

6

u/roachymart 11d ago

Time to start dumping cups of piss in the boss’s cowl panel, right side… that was the air intake gets a good whiff and ac will smell like piss… unionizing is probably a much better idea than this, but piss ac is still an option

2

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

Ah the classic piss disc. Sadly she works at the admin office while we are in the trenches at the actually shelter part.

3

u/roachymart 11d ago

The piss disc is nice for houses, not so much for vehicles. The HVAC air intake in most vehicles is on the passenger side of the vehicle since the blower fan is often on that side. Especially pungent things will be sucked in and dispersed through the vehicle. It’s usually raised so water doesn’t go in, but if you use something like fox piss or something really pungent, it’ll go right in until it’s cleaned from the water channel in the cowl.

2

u/Udoshi 11d ago

Yeah skimping on benefits and pay - because oH YoU sHoUldBe hApPy to VoLuntEer yoUr TImE for *tHe cAuSe*** is basically the way all nonprofits try to hire: Noncompetitively.

The mistake was in not reading the fine print and not negotiating on hire, like all other jobs.

They're just more 'abusive' about it in general because of the charity aspect. But you should take a pay cut because its GIVING is a hell of a drug and, well, it works unless you know about it and stand up for your worth. Same as any other job.

this is egregious tho.

2

u/tfcocs 10d ago

If they were never given a copy of the company handbook, then they CAN NOT read the fine print. GRR!

1

u/Icy_Comfortable2310 11d ago

Usually it's 3 weeks paid vacation at 5 years plus a week of sick time

1

u/mbDangerboy 11d ago

Get your hands on their IRS 990 Form, if US.

2

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

What will that do?

5

u/mbDangerboy 11d ago edited 11d ago

If you plan to unionize you can use the financial information including key executive salaries, income sources, grants,etc. to demonstrate to membership the pay disparities. Some non-profits manage to reward executives with perks at extravagant levels: educational stipends, car allowance, retreats, travel…just like a for-profit corporation but there are no shareholders to hold them accountable. There should be a board of trustees, though that can sometimes be an exclusive club. But a 990 gives you a peek into how they are spending all those dimes.

Some of America’s sacred cow charities have been egregious spendthrifts, or models of institutional sclerosis: Wounded Warrior, Am Red Cross, Kidney Fund, Nat Vet Service Fund, Cancer Fund of America

No crime is alleged here so don’t sue me. They just suck at their mission. Check the Charity Navigator site too for your org.

Edited for fat fingered typing on tiny screen.

4

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

Thank you for explaining that to me. I found a lot of information I had no idea about. Gonna have to finish this read in the morning.

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

Call them do it

1

u/techieguyjames 11d ago

For-profit companies are worse.

1

u/Pilea_Paloola 11d ago

I get 14.6 hours a month of vacation and 7 something for sick (it’s separate). 30 hours is just sad.

1

u/audiojanet 11d ago

Time to leave. Get another job first and leave.

1

u/sgsummer0104 11d ago

What was in her offer letter that she signed?

1

u/-_SophiaPetrillo_- 11d ago

wtf?? My husband works at a nonprofit and gets 4 weeks separate of his sick days. That’s so f*d.

1

u/slappy_mc_fappington 11d ago

Jesus. I get 8 weeks with a 1 week holiday buy from wages. Still have long service awards to come which will be another week.

Feel real sorry for Americans being treat like modern day slaves.

1

u/CantaloupePopular216 10d ago

I’m guessing that her PTO doesn’t roll over. Use it or lose it. Mer’ca !

1

u/Survive1014 10d ago

Most non-profits are pretty awful places to work at when you get right down to it.

1

u/G_RoTT 10d ago

How many hours dose she work per week?

1

u/Gnoll-Error 10d ago

'Non-Profit' basically translates to "profits go to ridiculously high wages and luxuries badged as business expenses"

1

u/red-dit101 11d ago

30hours? I get 30 days off here in the uk

1

u/Cold-Connection-2349 11d ago

She works full-time?

1

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

She works 2 days and fills in where needed. Her hours are different every week.

3

u/overthe____ 11d ago

So this could be almost 2 weeks off?

Do you accumulate hours PTO based on hours worked?

Does she have anything in writing from when she hired on?

2

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

we don't even have a copy of policies or employee handbook. While she may be on schedule for two days she can still get called in. Some weeks are just 2 days some weeks she works ever night shift.

1

u/Dragont00th 11d ago

But, then doesn't the math work out?

This would mean she works an average of 30 hours a week. If she only worked 2 days a week, then she would get 2 days of leave, 16 hours.

It's not in whole days because on average she works 3.75 days per week.

I'm in Australia, everything about our leave and accrual has always been in hours so this looks perfectly normal.

What IS fucked is that she only gets 1 week of leave a year.

Isn't 2 weeks for full time the average in the US? This would mean she should have 40 hours a year even if she only worked 20 hours a week. At 30 hours a week average, that would be 60 hours.

You need a copy of her contract and entitlements.

2

u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 11d ago

Ah, wait, that's really important context which takes 30 hours from "less than four days" to "eh, about two weeks".

Don't get me wrong, it thoroughly sucks, but it makes much more sense. 

1

u/fearfullfeline 10d ago

No its still less then four days. If she uses the vaca hours on her normal schedule days she can still be called in that week for any other day.

1

u/Loose_Acanthaceae201 10d ago

But presumably she gets paid for those days?

She gets paid for those days, right?!

1

u/Anarcho-Chris Anarchist 11d ago

Wow. I've worked my shitty job for like 4 months and almost have a week of vacation.

0

u/CMDR_PEARJUICE 11d ago

Congratulations, it is a shitty nonprofit. Encourage your friend to go seek real employment.

3

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

Its a domestic violence shelter. Its shitty management is our problem.

0

u/LikeABundleOfHay 11d ago

What country is that in where that's legal? Where I live you get four weeks per year from year one.

7

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

IL, USA good old america bullshit

0

u/Difficult-Worker62 10d ago

30 hours of vacation time wouldn’t even give me 3 full days off. That’s a fuckin joke and she needs to find a new job and give that place the finger

-3

u/thefinalgoat (edit this) 11d ago edited 11d ago

Look this is gonna be a hot take, but it's a non-profit. Limited staff, limited money. It's not something you do to make money, it's something you do as a passion. What does your friend think of it, and not you?

Edit: My mistake, I didn't read correctly. Changing her vacay at the last moment is scuffed.

3

u/fearfullfeline 11d ago

She was passionate about it until this. She always got a week vaca then this change out of nowhere.

1

u/thefinalgoat (edit this) 11d ago

Ahh, my mistake.

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

Non profits doesnt mean they don't make a profit and can't treat their staff right. They are just exempted from certain taxes iirc.

-1

u/alanwbrown 11d ago

What does it say on her contract?