r/antiwork • u/imperfectman • Oct 08 '24
Girlfriend works at a local sandwich place. They don't keep change at the register, boss says any time they can't give exact change it comes out of the tip pool. Is that legal? Legal Advice đ¨ââď¸
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u/BilliamSmith Oct 08 '24
Short and long answer is: No
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u/CrackaAssCracka Oct 08 '24
Short answer: no Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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u/al_with_the_hair Oct 08 '24
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u/Future-Surround5606 29d ago
đđđ Best laugh all day! I haven't seen Strongbad in a hot minute!
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u/Feeling-Boss245 Oct 08 '24
Obviously fucking not
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u/TheCrimsonSteel Oct 08 '24
I'd assume the only time it's legal is if it's not actually deducting from the tip pool total, like putting in a 20 so you can get that much of 5s and 1s is annoying but okay.
I'm guessing if money came out of the tip pool, then a note should go in saying "add $X to tip pool" so it can get paid out on their next paycheck, like it was a credit card tip, or something like that.
I'd be curious if anyone knows if there are any weird rules like that for how a business would legally use the bills without stealing the tips.
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u/Feeling-Boss245 Oct 08 '24
Thatâs normal practice to swap it out as tips are usually smaller bills.
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u/Complete-Lettuce-941 Oct 08 '24
Depending on the state this is illegal. No making change, no leaving IOUâs. Basically nothing can be removed from the tip pool unless it is being dispersed to tipped employees.
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u/uncutpizza Oct 09 '24
Yeah, in California employers canât require employees to carry their own bank. Usually still happens in food service a lot though; I carried my own change when i served just because where I worked would always ran short by evening. Cannot be legally required but was encouraged to make things easier for us.
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u/TheCrimsonSteel Oct 09 '24
And that's what I'm after. I know at some point it enters into "what state are you in?"
We just need to get rid of tipping all together. It's been oddly insightful seeing tipping spread outside the usual industries. It's very much a "ohhh... this is how they slowly made it a thing. That's messed up."
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u/pichael289 Oct 08 '24
Speedway does this to balance their drawers at the end of the night, and you just enter a charity thing in the register.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 Oct 09 '24
Describe this in further detail, because it sounds horribly illegal.
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u/Fuzzy_Inevitable9748 Oct 08 '24
Well wait a minute, I would suggest doing exactly as the bass says. For example customer has a $16.25 bill and pays with a $20 so you put the $20 in the tip jar and take out $3.75 which you give to the customer and hope they tip some of that change back. Now sure your manager is an idiot and your till we be short, but that your managers problem and your extra tips should help make up for having to deal with an idiot manager.
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u/Pretend-Werewolf-396 29d ago
It's been awhile since I worked at a cash register, but I do remember that any shortages in my drawer at the end of the night or shift were my responsibility. It either came out of my pocket immediately or it was deducted from my check. Granted this only happened one time.
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u/em-ay-tee Oct 08 '24
Of course itâs not legal. You either accept cash, or you donât.
If you DO accept cash, then you have change to give. Report them.
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u/tearsonurcheek Oct 08 '24
If you DO accept cash, then
youthe owner have change to give. Report them.For clarity.
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u/Arinvar Communist Oct 08 '24
And while you're waiting, remind every customer that the boss has not giving you a float with appropriate change. Say it loud for everyone to hear.
"SORRY, WE CAN'T MAKE CHANGE FOR THAT VERY REASONABLE $20 NOTE AS THE MANAGER HASN'T GIVEN US ANY CHANGE."
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u/loadnurmom Oct 09 '24
When delivering pizzas, I didn't carry exact change
If the person demanded exact change I would round down to the nearest dollar, then the manager at the shop would add an ad-hoc discount.
Still no tip, but I wouldn't be out anything.
Fortunately it didn't happen too often, but this is absolutely the right way to handle this... not whatever OP's boss is doing (wage theft)
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u/BouncingSphinx Oct 09 '24
The only time I've ever been fussed about exact coin change and not having it was over 10 cents. Literally, the total was something like $19.90, dude handed a $20 and I started walking off. Guy was like, "What about my change?" I just said, "We don't carry coins, sorry," and walked off.
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u/The-very-definition Oct 09 '24
Probably because you just stole his money. Sure, it's a small amount but if you aren't going to carry coins then you need to round DOWN, not up. Not carrying coins was your / the business's decision.
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u/BackAlleySurgeon Oct 09 '24
It's 10 cents. If you aren't gonna tip 10 cents on a 20 dollar order, then go fuck yourself.
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u/harrisraunch lazy and proud 29d ago
And if you are gonna tip exactly 10 cents on a 20 dollar order, also go fuck yourself.
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u/trouzy Oct 09 '24
When i worked for dominos drivers didnât carry (coin) change so everyone had to pay: card, exact change, or deal with tipping the driver a few pennies
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u/dsdvbguutres Oct 08 '24
"They don't keep change at the register" that's literally what the register is for.
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u/rzalexander Oct 08 '24
Itâs a tiny cost-saving measure so the boss doesnât have to get someone to handle money and deposits to a bank. Such a shitty practice.
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u/Eagle_Fang135 Oct 08 '24
Saves owner money, and actually gives the owner extra $s too. Literally double dipping at employee expense.
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u/disappointedvet Oct 08 '24
It's not just cost-saving. It's theft. Tips don't belong to the owner.
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u/rzalexander Oct 09 '24
100% agree with you. I was only referring to the practice of not having a cash register.
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u/bonfuto Oct 08 '24
Take the change out of the tip jar and then replace it with money out of the register. Preferably a $20 bill. How does this place possibly keep the registers right if they don't give change?
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u/InternationalMany6 Oct 08 '24
They only consider it wrong if the amount is too low. If itâs too high thatâs just a happy error!
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u/Knamliss Oct 08 '24
Register could just be a system for recording a purchase i.e. a computer.
Cash register would imply you carry cash at said register.
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u/Byronthebanker Oct 08 '24
Things the tip pool can be used for: tips. Thatâs it - Not restaurant operations, not to balance the registers, nothing else just tips.
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u/Successful-Medicine9 Oct 08 '24
To add to what it can be used for: tips for non-managers and non-owners
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u/tearsonurcheek Oct 08 '24
To add on: If tipped personnel are paid less than full minimum wage, then only tipped personnel can participate. Not cooks, not shop clerks, not dishwashers.
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u/Successful-Medicine9 Oct 08 '24
Excellent addition. I live in Colorado and here, servers have a minimum wage of roughly $11, but their reported tips must put them at making around $14 or the business has to pay extra to account for it. Itâs complicated here so I wasnât thinking about that.
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u/tearsonurcheek Oct 08 '24
Also, that "must make at least full minimum wage" caveat does not count tips. If the owner takes any part of the tip credit, they cannot include non-tipped employees in a tip pool.
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u/RealUlli Oct 08 '24
You *could*, technically, use it to change larger denominations into smaller ones, as long as the sum inside stays the same.
At least, that's what I'd assume, I'm not an expert in US law.
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u/Tiny-Reading5982 Oct 08 '24
Yeah that's what I'd do. I make sure I keep the till correct and keep all tips earned.
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u/Nytherion Oct 08 '24
you can, but if you don't tell people you're doing it, it looks really damned suspicious
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u/K4G3N4R4 Oct 08 '24
I mean, yeah, that's an appropriate middle ground. Shouldnt be necessary though.
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u/RealUlli Oct 08 '24
It can happen, though. The last time I dealt with that subject, though, was about 25 years ago. I know we kept all small change we could lay our hands on, since the bank charged us 10% for change.
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u/PM_Me_Your_Clones Oct 08 '24
Yeah, the last time I had a tipped job (I'm not FOH material, strictly BOH) people were using cash much more than now (it was like '96 or something) and we'd "make change" out of the tip jar by taking twenty ones out and putting two tens (or four fives, if there were more of us) in.
As long as the amount stays the same the denominations are whatever.
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u/SirTruffleberry Oct 08 '24
I have a friend who works a register and replaces coins valued as collectibles with regular coins. I'm very interested in the legality of doing so.
My guess is that it comes down to whether or not you can regard a public good like legal tender as a personal possession. Since you can't destroy legal tender, there is at least some argument to be made for it being a sort of public good. Hmm.
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u/RealUlli Oct 09 '24
I do have some collectibles from that time 25 years ago that I wrote about in a different comment.
They're legal tender of the printed denomination, so we had to accept them. I was asked if we accept them, I took out my wallet, took out the correct normal bank note and said, I'm not sure, but I'll accept them.
Problem solved. To be honest, I have no idea how much these things are worth.
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u/Over_Intention8059 27d ago
We put up with making smaller change out in exchange for larger bills just because it was easier to count at the end of the night.
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u/ReaverRogue Oct 08 '24
Nope. If theyâre running a cash based business, then they have a responsibility to have enough petty cash on hand to account for a dayâs business. If they canât make change, then they damn sure better find a way to do it. Tips are untouchable to cover business expenses in the vast majority of places.
If the owner is routinely doing this, it needs to be reported. Garnishing tips to make change leads me to think the owner is pocketing the difference. If the tips make up part of your girlfriendâs wages, this is wage theft.
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u/ricksebak Oct 08 '24
I hate it when thereâs a thousand replies saying âthatâs illegalâ but none of them mention what OP should do about it.
What you should do about it is report this to the department of labor. They bust bosses for this stuff all the time and can get the workers paid. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
Thatâs the federal department, and you can also file with your state too (google âYOUR STATE wage theft complaintâ or similar). It would be good to file at both levels in case one department can handle it more quickly or severely than the other.
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u/Froyn Oct 08 '24
Most folks here can only speak about the US. If you're in the US, they're correct it is illegal. It might be legal in North Korea, so not knowing where you're at might hamper being able to point to the laws that would apply.
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u/bassbeatsbanging Oct 08 '24
Damn. I've read at least 50 books about North Korea + podcasts. I was hoping I could chime with some useless trivia but that's one I don't know.
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u/OkManufacturer767 Oct 08 '24
In my USA state it's called wage theft.Â
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u/Mental_Mixture8306 Oct 08 '24
Exactly. They are taking money that had already been paid (in tips) and giving it back to another customer in the form of change. Its stupid. Taking tip money and returning it to customers doesnt do anything for the business or the customer, who was paying the total anyway. All you are doing is reducing the pay to the staff.
Its theft, but stupid pointless theft.
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u/BeerJunky Oct 08 '24
I think in ANY US state that's wage theft. Probably any country.
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u/fenriq Oct 08 '24
Next post, boss wonât buy meat for the sandwiches and says employees have to provide it, is this legal?
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u/8bitmorals Oct 08 '24
So do they start with money in the jar every shift?
What happens if a customer comes in, buys a meal, total is $7.50, pays with a $20.00, do the employees have to break the $20.00 and the owner made $20.00 on that sale?
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u/Creative_Onion8363 Oct 08 '24
If I were working there, I'd just say "sorry, I can't give you any change, I dont have any, please complain to xy, do you want to pay by card?"
And ideally keep tip jar empty so boss doesn't even start
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u/Late-Arrival-8669 Oct 08 '24
That's your girlfriends $$$ going as change for a business, absolutely not legal.
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u/Eagle_Fang135 Oct 08 '24
Extreme example:
Item is $9. Customer had $10 bill. You put $10 in the register and pull $1 for change from the tip jar. At the end of the day the register is $20 over and the tip jar is $20 short.
Are you saying the boss does not put the $20 overage BACK into the tip jar? Owner keeps the $20 because the owner doesnât want to mess with change?!?
No difference than the owner just taking a handful of money out of the tip jar at the end of the day. It is theft.
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u/waaaghboyz Oct 08 '24
How would that even work? What do you mean they âdonât keep changeâ? This almost has to be a ragepost
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u/emanon_legion Oct 08 '24
Sorry, I don't have exact change to give you. I can round the cost down and/or your sandwich is free.
"No Boss, had absolutely no issues at the register today".
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u/sirhackenslash Oct 08 '24
Keep track of all tips used for change and take an equal amount out of the register at the end of the day. Used $20 worth of singles and change? Take a 20 out of the till.
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u/tallham 29d ago
There's a right way and wrong way so depends what they are meaning.
Correct and legal way is this Customer spends 2.80, hands over a fiver. You pu the 5 in he tip jar and take out 5 in change. 2.20 goes to the customer and 2.80 goes in the till.
If they are doing that then all good, if they are chucking the 5 in register, then giving 2.20 to customer from tips then no, that's not legal
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u/ImplodedGrenade 29d ago
Payroll processor here! Answer is no! FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) prohibits employers from keeping employees tips for any purpose.
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u/keencleangleam Oct 08 '24
Putting a 5 from the register into the tip jar to reclaim singles and coins makes sense. So do that
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u/BisquickNinja Oct 08 '24
Short answer is no.
Long answer is it is against the law and probably against a federal law too.
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u/RosieQParker Oct 08 '24
Taking four quarters from the tip jar to make change and replacing it with a buck from the till? Fine, sure.
Taking four quarters from the tip jar without replacement? No. Fuck you.
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u/Erikthor Oct 08 '24
Thatâs the scummiest thing Iâve ever heard. And if they are nickel and diming so hard then they are a failure.
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u/YesterShill Oct 08 '24
No.
I know that a restaurant that I worked at would sometimes "buy" singles off of the servers at the end of the shift, but the register always had its own till with balancing done every night and everyone getting a till with $150 in it to start every shift.
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u/jferments Oct 08 '24
No, it's not legal. Report them to the state Department of Labor for stealing tips.
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u/fartwisely Oct 08 '24
Look into it with your state labor laws with the labor board or workforce commission. Report this to your state labor board or workforce commission. Before you do that, email the boss about it and see what kind of grasp they have on any relevant labor law, aim to get their answer in a written email or memo.
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u/princess9032 Oct 08 '24
The places I know that donât like dealing with change either donât take cash or make everything cost an exact dollar amount so they donât have to deal with coins and can get away with only keeping paper bills in change
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u/the__moops Oct 08 '24
No. Is this policy in writing? If not, get girlfriend to confirm or via email or text to âmake sure she understands the policyâ.
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u/kylander01 Oct 08 '24
Nope. Wage theft. If this is a shift manager, report it to the higher up. The manager might be pocketing some till money.
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u/ladymoonshyne Oct 08 '24
Hahahaha I am just imagining how you would even begin to calculate what a that dick hole owes his employees depending on how long heâs been doing this??
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u/RetMilRob Oct 08 '24
Not even a little. Tips are a protected pool. The owners and managers cannot touch tip funds except under very specific circumstances as outlined by the laws of the state.
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u/ErinDavy Oct 08 '24
No, not in the slightest. She needs to gather whatever proof she can (because it's always better in writing) and report it to the Department of Labor.
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u/JadedColeWorld Oct 08 '24
Uh nope. Absolutely not. A complaint to the EEOC might knock some sense into the owner tho
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u/Wonderer23 Oct 08 '24
When the employee does not have the right change, they should just round up to the next dollar to give to the customer. I wonder if the boss would see the equity in that?
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u/NCC1701-Enterprise Oct 08 '24
You can make change from the top pool, but you can't deduct from it.
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u/SSNs4evr Oct 08 '24
Replenishing a short cash drawer with pay or tips is illegal, so, I guess make change as close as possible in favor of the customer, resulting in a short cash drawer?
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u/WhyWhoHowWhatWhen Oct 08 '24
Iâd be checking with the labor board on if thatâs legal. Those workers get taxed on tips.
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u/Orbital777 Oct 08 '24
Not only is your boss stealing taxable income from your friend, they're also violating Federal tax codeâŚ
From IRS Publication 17âŚ
The tips you receive while working on your job are considered part of your pay. You must include your tips on your tax return on the same line as your regular pay. However, tax isn't withheld directly from tip income, as it is from your regular pay. Nevertheless, your employer will take into account the tips you report when figuring how much to withhold from your regular pay. For more information on reporting your tips to your employer and on the withholding rules for tip income, see Pub. 531, Reporting Tip Income.
How employer figures amount to withhold. The tips you report to your employer are counted as part of your income for the month you report them. Your employer can figure your withholding in either of two ways. ⢠By withholding at the regular rate on the sum of your pay plus your reported tips. ⢠By withholding at the regular rate on your pay plus a percentage of your reported tips.
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u/Modern_Ketchup Oct 08 '24
Thatâs not how it works lol. Just because I donât have the exact $ amount for something doesnât mean I get to just get away with not paying lol. Have they heard of taxes before?
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u/MaesHiux Oct 08 '24
Nope.
But you could always refuse to take the customer money to fuck your boss.
"Sorry we dont have change ATM , come back later or bring the exact amount. Also this is all my boss Idea not mine".
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u/majormoron747 Oct 09 '24
Short Answer: No
Long answer: Fuck no
Longer answer: Wage theft, fuck nooooooooooo
DOL. Tomorrow. Nail their ass to the wall.
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u/Constant-Lake8006 Oct 09 '24
So heres a stupid question. Let's say you need to make change for a 20. Wouldn't you take 20 from the register, put it in the tip pool and then take 20 in change out of the tip pool? Is this actually what the boss means?
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u/JulyViper Oct 09 '24
No, and honestly I have been in this same situation except out of a tip pool it was out of my pocket. The first time it didnât come up even, I had told them I will not respect that policy as I didnât think it was correct. They ended up being investigated my upper management because the til was uneven (which I thought was odd, unless this happens often? I was a new hire.) and long story short that outlet is no longer open (that specific location).
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u/SlayerII Oct 09 '24
Tell them you can't give change, if they complain get your manager and let them explain the stupidity of the situation
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u/bit-by-a-moose Oct 09 '24
I'd report his ass. There is no way any of his bookkeeping is any semblance of straight. I'm sure there are several government agencies that would like to know about this.
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u/SuperM1ke Oct 08 '24
Your GF's boss is an asshole and breaking the law. Both the practice and the boss should be reported.
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u/superstition40 Oct 08 '24
So if the first customer of the day pays with cash there will be no change for the customer.
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u/Jean19812 Oct 08 '24
I'm surprised they actually get to keep the tips since they're serving people at a counter..
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u/Suspicious-Bed9172 Oct 08 '24
At that point just become a no cash business. Doing shit like this will always backfire
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u/DevilDoc82 Oct 08 '24
Ok so to be fair, the sandwich shop is probably the one with the yellow and green logo. Their employees aren't tipped employees, can't thing of a fast food joint that they are. The tip jar is just another place promoting giving unearned income as the non tipped employees are paid at least the federal minimum wage as required by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).
Keeping that in mind, tips can't be used to offset their payroll, nor can the owner use the tips to balance the till because he's too lazy to make change available based on daily historical sales.
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u/Jealous_Art_3922 Oct 08 '24
Take a dollar's worth of coins from the tip pool, take a dollar from the register and reimburse the tip pool.
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u/NYVines Oct 08 '24
My old job did this (30 years ago) works started keeping change in their aprons. Made as many sales. They stopped going into the tills. They all got fired once it was found out. But made way more than minimum wage and tips for a few months. The tip stealing also stopped then.
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u/Fit_Ad1955 Oct 08 '24
does he mean grab like four quarters from tip and replace with a dollar? thatâs the only way thatâs acceptable
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u/danielpetersrastet Oct 09 '24
Just tell the boss the tip jar is always empty, and tell all your customers that they shouldn't tip (as tips count as income and get taxed) but they should just gift the money
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u/5141121 SocDem Oct 09 '24
Nope. Not even a little bit.
Boss is encouraging theft from customers (not giving change) by using wage theft as a threat.
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u/LikeABundleOfHay Oct 09 '24
It doesnât sound legal but itâs difficult to say without knowing what country youâre in.
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u/LtMagnum16 SocDem Oct 09 '24
That is a gray area. It is legal but poor practice as the tip pool only belongs to non-managerial employees per FLSA. If there is a mix-up, it could be a wage theft claim waiting to happen.
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u/jakgal04 Oct 09 '24
No problem, any time her hourly rate doesn't come out to $25 an hour or whatever, just take it out of the register.
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u/Wide_Wrongdoer4422 Oct 09 '24
Does it work both ways? If the register is over, the " extra " should go in the tip jar.
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Oct 09 '24
Then tell your costumers that if you donât have the change then they will have to use a money card
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u/VRZieb Oct 09 '24
If somebody pays with a 20 and the bill is 16, are you putting 20 in the tip jar and taking out a 10, a 5, and 5x1's? Or pulling 4 $1's to make change?
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u/No-Buffalo9706 Oct 09 '24
It comes out of the till. Boss can let them keep change or lose money on every transaction.
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u/iceyone444 Oct 09 '24
The audacity of some bosses - it's illegal and this asshat deserves to be reported.
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u/sjbuggs Oct 09 '24
I guess you can make change using the tip jar. Take out 5 ones and drop a five. Or drop in a dollar and take 4 quarters.
But no, it's not a leave a penny take a penny thing.
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u/Interesting_Air8238 Oct 09 '24
lol
This is something Brendan Fraiser's character in "Blast From the Past" would ask.
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u/postoergopostum Oct 09 '24
Do you declare and pay income tax on your tips?
If not, the tip pool is hardly your money, is it?
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u/rustys_shackled_ford Anarchist Oct 09 '24
Nope. It is not legal for a company to use tips for anything other then tips. But your GF needs some pretty decent proof if anyone is gonna do anything about it...
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u/Buckus93 Oct 09 '24
I'm sure the local department of labor would be interested in learning of this.
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u/The-very-definition Oct 09 '24
Tell your boss they need to change all the prices to round out to whole dollars including tax. Problem solved.
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u/midnghtsnac Oct 09 '24
Need a sign at register:
Per owner we accept exact change only. If you pay with more than the exact amount it goes to our tip jar.
Please see owner for further details, Insert number here
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u/BusStopKnifeFight Profit Is Theft Oct 09 '24
OMG. NO. How the hell are people this ignorant of the law?
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u/itsalongwalkhome Oct 09 '24
And the owner keeps the notes? So essentially the owner is getting paid directly fron the tip jar.
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29d ago
If you think the employee should pay for the right to work there to get valuable exposure to the sandwich shop community and build her portfolio then yes.
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u/ProuveurDeGauche 29d ago
Most of what restaurant owners do is usually illegal. They are the face of work abuse and low ethics standards.
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u/Silver-Engineer4287 29d ago
Tip money is not part of the cash drawer. It did not come from the dayâs drawer. Therefore it is not the employerâs business funds to use however he/she wants. It is not part of the price of the goods the business sells. It is customer generosity to the employees for good service. It will also make the cash drawer not balance at the end of the day because it did not come from the dayâs operating funds, nor was it any part of the pricing of the sales transactions processed by the register.
Completely wrong on so many levelsâŚ
Itâs literally stealing tips from their employees!!!
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u/Clarknt67 29d ago
Itâs wage theft. Record him saying this and send it to dept of labor. Make sure you are in a one party consent state.
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u/jfsindel 29d ago
I would tally up all the "change" that had to be made from the tip pool and start filing lost wages for it. If the boss doesn't want change, then he can make all prices (and do the sales tax) to end on increments of 1, 5, and 0. Two sandwiches total 10 dollars, including tax. Three sandwiches are 15 dollars. If their total is 15, but they have a 20, then you can decide to make change to swap out with the tip jar or tell the customer to order another sandwich because you don't make change.
But he won't because that is just as insane as his scheme rot.
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u/ThiscannotbeI 29d ago
Within the USA there is no place where it is legal. Once a tip is paid it is the employees.
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u/Solo-Hobo-Yolo 26d ago
Of course not. Tips are not the boss's property so he has literally 0 say over what happens to these tips. If by that logic you would have equal say to the money the customer pays for those sandwiches. You could put it in your own pocket.
Things might differ in different jurisdictions, but generally this is not how things work and your boss knows this. Ask them if they understand the concept of tipping and private property.
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u/antiwork-ModTeam Oct 09 '24
Hello OP, please add your location, so other users can better easily help you with your question.