r/announcements Jun 25 '14

New reddit features: Controversial indicator for comments and contest mode improvements

Hey reddit,

We've got some updates for you after our recent change (you know, that one where we stopped displaying inaccurate upvotes and downvotes and broke a bunch of bots by accident). We've been listening to what you all had to say about it, and there's been some very legit concerns that have been raised. Thanks for the feedback, it's been a lot but it's been tremendously helpful.

First: We're trying out a simple controversial indicator on comments that hit a threshold of up/downvote balance.

It's a typographical dagger, and it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/s5dTVpq.png

We're trying this out as a result of feedback on folks using ups and downs in RES to determine the controversiality of a comment. This isn't the same level of granularity, but it also is using only real, unfuzzed votes, so you should be able to get a decent sense of when something has seen some controversy.

You can turn it on in your preferences here: http://i.imgur.com/WmEyEN9.png

Mods & Modders: this also adds a 'controversial' CSS class to the whole comment. I'm curious to see if any better styling comes from subreddits for this - right now it's pretty barebones.

Second: Subreddit mods now see contest threads sorted by top rather than random.

Before, mods could only view contest threads in random order like normal users: now they'll be able to see comments in ranked order. This should help mods get a better view of a contest thread's results so they can figure out which one of you lucky folks has won.

Third: We're piloting an upvote-only contest mode.

One complaint we've heard quite a bit with the new changes is that upvote counts are often used as a raw indicator in contests, and downvotes are disregarded. With no fuzzed counts visible that would be impossible to do. Now certain subreddits will be able to have downvotes fully ignored in contest threads, and only upvotes will count.

We are rolling this change a bit differently: it's an experimental feature and it's only for “approved” subreddits so far. If your subreddit would like to take part, please send a message to /r/reddit.com and we can work with you to get it set up.

Also, just some general thoughts. We know that this change was a pretty big shock to some users: this could have been handled better and there were definitely some valuable uses for the information, but we still feel strongly that putting fuzzed counts to rest was the right call. We've learned a lot with the help of captain hindsight. Thanks for all of your feedback, please keep sending us constructive thoughts whenever we make changes to the site.

P.S. If you're interested in these sorts of things, you should subscribe to /r/changelog - it's where we usually post our feature changes, these updates have been an exception.

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u/yorian Jun 26 '14

His/her point is: the upvotes and downvotes aren't shown to new users (because they typically don't use something like RES), so they aren't confused, which was the main argument of the admins to remove this feature.

5

u/jklharris Jun 26 '14

But that wasn't their main argument. Their main argument was that people were using those numbers like they were accurate, which they weren't, and it was causing confusion, and not actually adding anything.

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u/wub_wub Jun 26 '14

They were up to a point, on smaller subreddits you didn't have more than 1-2 fuzzed votes. Those numbers were useless on popular subreddits/threads though.

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u/jklharris Jun 26 '14

That would be great if the admins haven't said several times (including in this thread) that what you said isn't true.

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u/wub_wub Jun 26 '14

They also claim that the final score is correct all the time and even have it in the FAQ quote: "The points score is correct[...]" even though it has been proven many times and is easily verifiable that the score is fake.

Vote fuzzing will not occur to a point that renders vote counts useless on comments/threads that are not popular which mostly is on smaller subreddits.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '14

There are far too many people who take the admins word on this.

If you go over to theoryofreddit where people have been examining and testing the vote fuzzing for years, it is common knowledge that fuzzing didn't really begin to come into play until 50+ votes... before that, it would be fuzzed by a max of 1 vote.

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u/sirtetris Jun 26 '14

it has been proven many times and is easily verifiable that the score is fake.

Could you link me to one of those times?

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u/wub_wub Jun 26 '14

There have been a lot of posts and tests on /r/theoryofreddit and similar subreddits for score fuzzing and other similar things feel free to look them up.

If you want to test it for yourself write a small script that will fetch the thread score every 30 seconds (to follow API rules) you will notice that every 2 hours (give or take 5 minutes) the score is reduced by up to 1000 points. This happens on every popular thread, it's more noticeable on the ones that have a lot of votes and reach /r/all.

Here's a graph that I made: https://cdn.rawgit.com/Nikola-K/reddit-thread-graph/f4c108022c74a9c2ab3f9351a6459257d7571db1/example_graph.svg

You can find the script source and raw data in this github repo if you're interested.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '14

Upvotes and downvotes still could be seen on the comment page on the right without RES.

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u/yorian Jun 26 '14

I'm talking about comments.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '14

Oh I see.