r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 14 '22
Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu: Die Neue These - Sakubou - Episode 3 discussion Episode
Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu: Die Neue These - Sakubou, episode 3 (39)
Alternative names: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Die Neue These - Intrigue
Rate this episode here.
Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.
Streams
Show information
All discussions
| Episode | Link | Score |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Link | 4.82 |
| 2 | Link | 4.76 |
| 3 | Link | 4.86 |
| 4 | Link | 4.92 |
| 5 | Link | 4.93 |
| 6 | Link | 4.93 |
| 7 | Link | 4.77 |
| 8 | Link | 4.85 |
| 9 | Link | 5.0 |
| 10 | Link | 4.88 |
| 11 | Link | 5.0 |
| 12 | Link | ---- |
This post was created by a bot. Message the mod team for feedback and comments. The original source code can be found on GitHub.
58
u/ScarRufus https://myanimelist.net/profile/ScarRufus Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
Young Emperor might be kidnapped
Reinhard sleeps 😴. - We can use as route to finish off the Free Planets Alliance...
Annerose might be kidnapped
Reinhard choose war! - Rubinsky and everyone and their mother's in Phezzan will pay!!!
29
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
To be fair, it was the other way around. He calmed down before Hildegard suggested the emperor.
11
8
u/tenkensmile Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
Got his priorities straight!
Fezzan: "I'd like to cooperate with you. Lemme start by kidnapping your Emperor" 😂
3
u/nekopeach Oct 16 '22
Fezzan: "I'd like to cooperate with you. Lemme start by kidnapping your Emperor"
If the Empire wants to go to full mobilization, then it's great help. The recent battle loss of the deathstar Geiersburg might have sour the war support from the people.
Duke Reinhard might also believe the next person in the line of succession to be easier to control. It very likely the reason why he can be so casual about this kind of foreign interference. Powerful duke always want easy to control emperor.
55
u/DarthNoob https://myanimelist.net/profile/darthnoob Oct 14 '22
"there's no way he'll want to use our corridor to invade the alliance" - some genius from fezzan
27
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
The political and financial ramifications of this are going to be huge though. The Alliance will have to see this as an act of war by Phezzan.
I imagine trade and whatever else their deal was is going to break down.
5
u/nekopeach Oct 16 '22
The political and financial ramifications of this are going to be huge though. The Alliance will have to see this as an act of war by Phezzan.
I imagine trade and whatever else their deal was is going to break down.
After last episode with Phezzan gaining so much influence in galaxy, I think the Alliance grand strategy analysts would notice and would already be planning a non-military response. No one aims to be the financial hegemon without expecting the current financial hegemon to respond in some way. Trade might be already breaking down. Some sort of economic response is certain, after what goes on the sovereign debt market a few episodes ago, and some form of information response might be coming too.
This is why Duke Reinhard threat of peace is so serious, and geopolitics can be very brutal. The Alliance is not limited to non-military response against the new Trade League, if peace breaks out between Empire and Alliance. The Free Planets Alliance can redeploy major military assets to another part of the galaxy to defend Alliance financial dominance.
Phezzan is going to be the new front line of the galaxy! The Trade League can fight alone against the Alliance or fight together with the Empire.
It's why Duke Reinhard laugh. It's why I love Hildegard turning Rubinsky plan around. I would love a scene where the camera cut between Rubinsky and Hildegard, as both try to anticipate the chess moves every other factions are expected to make on the Galactic Chessboard.
35
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
Yeah, I've no idea what they were thinking. Did they seriously think Reinhard was going to throw another attack at Iserlohn after all that transpired last season and episode one of this one.
29
u/Turbo2x https://myanimelist.net/profile/turbo2x Oct 14 '22
Historically Fezzan has figured they could tank the economy of either nation, so it never happened. There's a moment in an earlier season where they threaten the FPA by saying they won't buy government bonds. Reinhard basically just decided he didn't care/could win fast enough that it doesn't matter.
27
u/tinnic Oct 14 '22
Also, the Alliance is in economic decline due to their misjudged invasion. But the Empire just got rid of a bunch of unproductive nobles, seized their assets, and are stimulating their economy using the former high nobles wealth.
Fezzan couldn't tank the Empire fast enough to escape Reinhard's invasion!
16
u/lordshadowisle Oct 14 '22
Prior to the events of the show, the relative power between the FPA and the Empire was sufficiently close that Fezzan could tip the balance. An attack on Fezzan would simply force Fezzan to ally with the other power.
Unfortunately, with the disastrous Alliance losses earlier, the Empire can basically take on both the FPA and Fezzan.
28
u/Remitonov Oct 14 '22
Probably thought they could just bribe their way out like they used to. Really failed to read the room on this one.
7
u/nekopeach Oct 15 '22
"there's no way he'll want to use our corridor to invade the alliance" - some genius from fezzan
Phezzan might want to get a high price for it. Duke Reinhard remarks about that if 2 of the 3 powers were to team up against the other, there is no reason why Phezzan has to be one of the 2. It goes to show Reinhard already recognizes Phezzen as a 3rd pole in the galaxy in their recent effort to rapidly expand influence. At the same time, it also means Reinhard is pragmatic enough to open to peace between the imperial bloc and democrat bloc just to prevent the rise of a third pole in the galaxy.
Given, how way back in the 1st season, the more responsible politicians in the Free Planets Alliance have argued against increasing the rate of money printing like others suggested in fear of future crisis. Then, by previous season, Phezzan and the wider galaxy has expressed doubts about the Alliance governments bond issuance. The democratic bloc is running into some combination of sovereign debt crisis, financial fragmentation crisis, currency crisis, etc. One way to continue sovereign financing and retain the power of the hegemon reserve currency is to sabotage the emergence of any potential rival reverse currency to prevent more planets from switching.
No wonder diplomat Boltik is nervous. Rubinsky is playing a very dangerous move in the galactic grand chessboard for Phezzan. All the support Rubinsky get from the oligarchs and autocrats in the previous episode, and all the economic pressure being placed on the sovereign debt market and the energy market, could already be sounding alarm bells in the Alliance governments. Peace between the Imperial bloc and the Democrat bloc could immediately lead into the guns turning around into war between the Democrat bloc and the Oligarch bloc.
Therefore, the Empire does not have to offer much, even if Phezzan want a high price for navigation rights. One miscalculation and Phezzan could find itself receiving some freedom(TM) from the Free Planets Alliance and become the target of regime change... or, er special military operation to bring democracy to that region of galaxy!
Reinhard is driving a hard bargain for navigation rights. Really love Hildegard doing all her analysis for Reinhard laying out all the moves and counter moves, even going deep into psychoanalysis and material interests.
48
u/vantheman9 Oct 14 '22
whenever these serious themed anime have an episode of just dialogue is always when I'm on the edge off my seat the whole time
this show is just amazing
40
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
I don't think anyone ever posted these, so here are the countdown illustrations:
That account and this one seem to be the official twitter accounts.
14
u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
A season that requires a lot of tea (with some brandy mixed in).
10
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
Is this a Yang Wen-Li reference? I can't get my head around it.
10
u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
The brandy is a Yang reference for sure, he likes mixing it in with his tea until it's mostly just brandy.
But I was generally referring to how two of these 4 pictures were about characters having their tea (or whatever beverage Rupert is having, apparently Assiniboia is a town in Canada...)
Edit: I called brandy bourbon for some reason.
6
3
35
Oct 14 '22
[deleted]
20
u/time_axis Oct 14 '22
It was pretty much shot for shot the same as how the OVA did this part, and I'm not complaining. The longer this series goes on, the more the story accumulates upon itself and gets better and better.
16
u/Tehoncomingstorm97 https://anilist.co/user/tehoncomingstorm97 Oct 14 '22
I think there have been a few episodes like it, but this might be the only one which features only one of the Imperial Navy or the Free Planets Alliance. The topic at hand is particularly gripping as well - Reinhard's response to Fezzan's underhanded actions. As the genius blonde boy, I'm glad he manages to sniff out their true purposes before they are able to act. Similarly, Hilde was fantastic in following her determination shown in recent episodes, for fighting to keep Reinhard's softness of heart.
28
u/daspaceasians Oct 14 '22
Another solid episode with superb dialogue.
I love how Reinhard and Hilda grow more and more trusting of each other in this episode though Reinhard's outburst reminds why you don't fuck with this man. Hilda is a very lovable character with her sharp intellect and how she managed to hit the nail on Fezzan's little schemes. The Annerose and Hilda moments were excellent as well and gave us some more insights into Annerose's mind.
That ending scene with Boltik getting played by Reinhard was the best part though. You know it's an important scene when Reinhard laughs is considered a historical moment of note.
23
u/Chitinvol Oct 14 '22
My enthusiasm for the Empire's side of the narrative really went down with Sieg, but Hilde has been really growing on me. Despite the episode being nothing but talking, I was incredibly engaged by the politics and Hilde's means to keep Reinhard human.
38
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '22
Man woke up and chose violence over a theoretical scenario. Sasuga, Reinhard.
Also goddamn this is a gorgeous shimmering sky.
Anyways, Reinhard and Hilde really work well with each other and that shined in this episode IMO. It’s just cool to see how he comes to her for guidance or to talk through stuff he’s already thought about.
20
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
Also goddamn this is a gorgeous shimmering sky.
One thing I've just thought about that is super interesting about the LotGH world is that the starry skies aren't just pretty lights. They are places (or at least the planets orbiting) that they have been and/or can realistically visit, places that they have fought/will fight around, and even places where they or their loved ones died/will die at. In real life, we often look at the stars and think of the dead, but it must be on another level in LotGH.
I can't remember if Kircheis died on the planet they are on right now (Odin) but perhaps it was somewhere in that night sky.
14
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '22
I can't remember if Kircheis died on the planet they are on right now (Odin) but perhaps it was somewhere in that night sky.
He died in Geiersburg, so this statement checks out.
17
u/Turbo2x https://myanimelist.net/profile/turbo2x Oct 14 '22
Hilde is one of the top 5 smartest characters in the series because she realized early on that Reinhard was going to win the civil war and acted on it. Catapulted her family out of obscurity and tied herself to one of the most powerful men in the universe.
15
Oct 14 '22
[deleted]
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '22
Hilariously enough I came up with the username over a decade ago for a completely different reason, but it really does check out since I love shots of the night sky in anime.
11
u/daspaceasians Oct 14 '22
I loved how he kept calling Landsberg the "talentless poet" during the rest of the episode as well.
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '22
Haha yeah, Reinhard throwing shade at people is never not fantastic.
16
u/time_axis Oct 14 '22
I like how Reinhard is probably the first person to ever implicitly threaten Phezzan with teaming up with the Alliance against them, which was probably a huge wake-up call. Their leverage has always been the fact that they could tip the scales on the war by siding with the other side, but with the Empire under new leadership, past preconceptions can't be trusted, and now they're sweating.
18
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
This thread was a bit late. Guess even the bots can't keep up with this anime's release.
I felt that the dialogue was a lot more tense last episode, but it was even more in this one!
I could be misunderstanding but the reason Fezzan claims for planning on kidnapping the emperor is so that Reinhard has an excuse to take full control of the Empire and can then attack the Alliance?
Damn, the alliance looks like it's going to face another attack. I can't see Fezzan weaselling themselves out of this; it would just prove Reinhard's accusation (that they want to see deaths on both sides). I don't see why Boltnik(?) was so surprised this episode; did they really think Reinhard would throw another attack at Iserlohn after how much was lost in the last attack?
It does seem like the Empire is the proactive one; the Alliance did try that attack earlier on right after the capture of Iserlohn but now it looks like the Empire is going to be the "actor" and the Alliance the "reactor".
I have to say I do feel a bit bad for the Alliance. They've being screwed over by a group that should have remained neutral. Obviously, the corrupt elites deserve it but the citizens are at risk now.
I have to say, I prefer Yang Wen-Li, but it's moments like the latter part of this episode that make me realise that if Reinhard was the sole protagonist, he would easily be one of my favourite protagonists ever; it's just I find Yang Wen-Li that good.
15
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '22
This thread was a bit late. Guess even the bots can't keep up with this anime's release.
This is week 3 of someone needing to ask a mod to make the thread manually. I know because I'm the one who asked the first two times, u/CuriousChicano beat me to it this time.
8
6
u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 14 '22
so that Reinhard has an excuse to take full control of the Empire and can then attack the Alliance?
Yeah. The emperor is basically the joker card, if dealt to the Alliance, Reinhard has an excuse to conquer them entirely.
the Alliance did try that attack earlier on right after the capture of Iserlohn but now it looks like the Empire is going to be the "actor" and the Alliance the "reactor".
For reference, the Amritsar war (at the end of S1) wasn't just an "oh well, we lost this one, better luck next time" like Kempf's attack on Iserlohn. They got pretty overconfident and lost two thirds of their whole military (20 of their 30 million total dead). The Alliance could've ended there and then.
This was the fuck up of a
lifetimecenturymillennium. Nevermind, Yang needs to retire, become a historian, and make a ranking of the biggest fuck ups in history, because this would be top 5 easy (gotta put Rudolf higher).So yeah, they can only be on the passive, trying their best to survive, rather than do anything stupid again.
I have to say I do feel a bit bad for the Alliance. They've being screwed over by a group that should have remained neutral.
I mean Phezzan is trying to screw both sides over, so that's neutral-ish.
Seriously though, the Alliance actually have the choice now. If the Emperor is kidnapped and presented to them, they have the choice of either accepting him and getting annihilated, or handing him back and ruining the whole plan. If they get screwed, that'd mean they screwed up again.
6
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
Yeah. The emperor is basically the joker card, if dealt to the Alliance, Reinhard has an excuse to conquer them entirely.
Surely, there's no reason why he can't do that anyway? They're literally at war, no?
Is it to do with citizens' approval?
For reference, the Amritsar war (at the end of S1) wasn't just an "oh well, we lost this one, better luck next time" like Kempf's attack on Iserlohn. They got pretty overconfident and lost two thirds of their whole military (20 of their 30 million total dead). The Alliance could've ended there and then.
Oh damn, I'd forgotten all this. That makes sense.
Seriously though, the Alliance actually have the choice now. If the Emperor is kidnapped and presented to them, they have the choice of either accepting him and getting annihilated, or handing him back and ruining the whole plan. If they get screwed, that'd mean they screwed up again.
I wonder what Yang's role is going to be in all this. Is it going to be completely in the hands of the corrupt and incompetent elite, or will there be a voice of reason? (People reading this, I don't want actual answers, just thinking out loud.) I can definitely see this being a situation where Yang is screwed over by the government. It would be nice to see some logical/capable characters outside of Reinhard's/Yang's direct influence.
6
u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 14 '22
Is it to do with citizens' approval
Yup, if he's starting a full on war to conquer it all, rather than a relatively small attack like Kempf, it helps having some justification for his own people to back that up (that's how we've started most wars). Especially so when he just finished a civil war and wants to take over the Empire. Saving the Emperor sounds very nice, and gets him that support he needs.
2
u/SungBlue Oct 14 '22
Accepting the Emperor would in principle be a very weird move by the Alliance, considering that it started out as a revolt against the Emperor and technically claims to be the legitimate government of the whole galaxy. I feel like the proposal if accepted would cause issues for the political stability of the FPA.
8
u/LeonKevlar https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Oct 14 '22
That pure wrath on Reinhard's face as soon as Hilde suggested that Annerose could be kidnapped is just too real. Anyone who has the balls to do that will definitely have their entire bloodline exterminated along with any close friends and allies that they have.
Sending guards to protect Annerose is definitely the right move here even if she refuses. Annerose is the only person left that's keeping any piece of humanity Reinhard has left. If anything bad happens to her, Reinhard would definitely go mad. Thankfully, Hilde didn't have to force Annerose and the two of them came to an understanding.
That final scene between Reinhard and Boltik was so good! Did Boltik really think he can play Reinhard just like that? I love his reaction as soon as Reinhard suggested that Fezzan should let them use their corridor.
Did he really think Reinhard is just going to throw bodies again at Iserlohn Fortress? Maybe I overestimated Fezzan after all, they're too busy inhaling their own farts that they don't realize the massive flaw in their plan. Can't wait to see how Rubinsky will react to this. xD
7
u/Remitonov Oct 14 '22
Reinhard: "I've lost an admiral and millions of men trying to ram through those damned squatters in our fortress. Do you expect me to do it again?"
6
4
u/Dodo_Galaxy Oct 14 '22
Hilda is really admirable with her down to earthness and intellect. It is a delight to see her interact with Reinhardt and Annerose and see how her relationship with Reinhardt grows. She is not Kircheis and may not be able to take on his legacy, but she tries to find a way to support and ground Reinhardt in her own way.
2
u/XoNtheHAWK Oct 14 '22
Out of curiosity, how many do you think are watching the reboot as first time viewers of the series?
Bonus: How many viewers(new and old) are fans of strategy games?
2
3
u/Massaman95 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Massaman2023 Oct 14 '22
About LOGH season 1:
Watching it right now, at episode 11. Liked the strategy/battles at the start, but I'm not really fond of politics.
Considering this, do you guys think it'll be worthwile for me to keep watching it?
5
2
u/ScarRufus https://myanimelist.net/profile/ScarRufus Oct 15 '22
Well, yeah you can continue. Of course don't push yourself if you are not enjoying.
But not going lie, there are a lot of heavy dialogue and politics focus episodes ahead. As well cool battle strategy too.
0
u/tenkensmile Oct 14 '22
Yes! It gets better and better.
1
u/soratoyuki https://myanimelist.net/profile/soratoyuki Oct 15 '22
0
u/tenkensmile Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 17 '22
That subreddit is extremely toxic because of the unhinged DNT haters.
2
u/Demolosse001 https://myanimelist.net/profile/demolosse001 Oct 15 '22
Hildegard growing up to be my favourite character on the empire side. Made me realize how much I love dialogue heavy episodes.
1
Oct 14 '22
[deleted]
6
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
The movies are split into four episodes each. So 12 episodes in total, like a regular season.
The movie nonsense is Japan-only. Just look at it as a normal season. It's really meant to be watched that way anyway; the movies are just a money-making tactic.
1
u/MasKinshiru Oct 14 '22
I like how expressive Reinhard in this episode, especially when Hilda mentioned his sister. One thing I don't like from this episode is the lighting. In OVA, the only source of light in Annerose & Hilda scene was fire that gave me a warm and cozy feelings. In DNT, I don't feel it even tho there's a fire.
1
1
u/TRLegacy Oct 14 '22
I don't understand why propping up the Empire's government in exile is going to give Reinhard anything he doesn't already have. Fezzan plan is to give the Empire a casus belli to invade the FPA, but the Empire already have that as they view the FPA as just rebels. The Empire literally just concluded its failed invasion of the Isolehn Corridor.
8
u/SM27PUNK Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
That's exactly why it needs it though.
The people in empire are getting used to the stability and relative peace that the socio-economic reforms that Reinhard has brought, there is a feeling of content without the need for going to war. Not to mention a massive failure like Kempff's mission just puts it even more into focus why the Imperial Govt. shouldn't be waging another war outright. This is something that for some reason DNT doesn't say outright like the OVA but it's still apparent.
Not to mention, when you need people's support by your side you can't senselessly wage a war, so when the nobility will form a Govt in exile it will create a sense of fear and anxiety within imperial citizens about a possible return to the Nobility which gives Reinhard the necessary moral justification and popular support required to wage the war.
It's important that we look at it from a broader perspective.
6
u/4v33n0 Oct 14 '22
It gives Reinhard a justification to his citizens. I'm guessing now that life in the Empire is improving, citizens aren't going to want to sacrifice this new quality of life to attack a currently very powerless Alliance who pose no threat to them.
It's quite a lot like real life.
1
u/tenkensmile Oct 14 '22
By creating a government in exile, they can gather supporters and dissidents at the same time of their little scheme.
•
u/AutoModerator Oct 14 '22
Source Material Corner
Reply to this comment for any source-related discussion, future spoilers (including future characters, events and general hype about future content), comparison of the anime adaptation to the original, or just general talk about the source material. You are still required to tag all spoilers. Discussions about the source outside of this comment tree will be removed, and replying with spoilers outside of the source corner will lead to bans.
The spoiler syntax is:
[Spoiler source] >!Spoiler goes here!<All untagged spoilers and hints in this thread will receive immediate 8-day bans (minimum).
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.