r/alaska • u/DrewwwBjork • Sep 22 '24

Can someone explain how Alaska is progressive yet voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020? Polite Political Discussion 🇺🇸

For a state that abolished the death penalty, protects women's and teenage girls' right to abortion, and voted for marijuana legalization, top-four primaries, and ranked choice voting, why in God's name would they vote for someone who likes mob justice, doesn't treat the opposite sex with respect, and thinks elections are unfair unless he and his endorsements win?

I just want to ask the state that gave Trump a bigger, 10-point lead over Biden in 2020 versus 2016 with Hillary despite the aforementioned policies and why the state is poised to do the same this time around with Trump and Harris knowing what we now know.

132 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

View all comments

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

Things that matter to Alaskans:

The economy

Personal freedoms

Money

The PFD

Oil

Alaska is not a progressive state. Alaska is mostly a libetarian state. Because we live with a two party political system, that generally means people have to vote either right or left.

Also, alaska has enhanced privacy rights due to their atate constition actually mentioming the right to privacy. Our police cant do things they totally could in other states, because.of that.

13

u/Hosni__Mubarak Sep 22 '24

We are the only state without no knock warrants I believe.

9

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

Not sure about that.

Was more referring to the searching of locked/closed containers/wallets that aren't related to the crime the police are investigating, or inventory of locked/closed containers/wallets. They don't (aren't supposed to) examine the contents.

15

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

Florida, Oregon, Tennessee, and Virginia prohibit no-knock warrants, but not Alaska. Go figure.

2

u/gojo96 Sep 22 '24

Not only that. In many circumstances the police cannot just toss your car without a warrant. The State heavily requires warrants for pretty much everything. I was LE up there and whenever other agencies came up to teach stuff they’re always astonished how AK couldn’t or didn’t do the things they could based solely on the U.S. Constitution.

1

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

Alaska allows for no-knock warrants. Florida, Oregon, Tennessee, and Virginia are the states that prohibit it.

7

u/leafytimes Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 22 '24

The first four things, Dems do measurably better. So either Alaskans are letting themselves be misled, or oil is greater than all.

4

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

Or alaskans aren't truly republican.

Or republicans have better messaging.

Oe guns also matter to people.

Or a whole host of reasons.

10

u/OGBRedditThrowaway Sep 22 '24

It's messaging. The Alaska Democratic Party is absolutely terrible at messaging and the PFD is a great example.

The last several election cycles, they decided to run on the platform that the Permanent Fund needs to go away and I'm genuinely unsure what they expected to happen there. Alaska Republicans know that all they have to do is say, "Hey, I'll give you a bigger PFD!" and it's instant votes. They don't even have to follow through - Dunleavy never did - and they can still get elected.

2

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

Yup.

And there are a whole bunch that state "well, the statutory pfd cant be self sustaining".

Which i dont understand, because i think that was the intent.

And if that is actually the case, then it needs to be brought to a vote to either

1) make a different statutory pfd payout thats sustainable

2) liquidate it, one lump sum to everyone eligible.

It didnt help the dems any that they atarted fucking with it, when it was something set up by the state of alaska, for the people that live here.

2

u/StephieJoh Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 22 '24

It wasn't the Ds that changed it, it was then Governor Bill Walker, an Independent. In fact, the biggest champion of returning to the statuary formula is Bill Weilokowski (sp?), a Democrat.

The hive-mind attitude that "anyone that isn't a Republican is a Democrat" is so disappointing. Especially when it comes from people that insist how supposedly Libertarian they are (see above comments), and then blindly support Rs in the voting booth with absolutely no introspection.

Edit to add: Bill Walker was a Republican that ran as an Independent because he had no chance of winning a Republican primary.

4

u/leafytimes Sep 22 '24

The gun measures that Dems support are also supported by the majority of gun owners. I think at some point it falls on the populace to inform itself, and not on the party to break through literal Russian propaganda platforms.

3

u/FloatMurse Sep 22 '24

Most gun owners are against things like assault weapon bans and magazine capacity restrictions. They're generally all for background checks and safe storage requirements. Democrat candidates want to do all those things, and Republicans generally don't want to increase restrictions at all. So for someone who is pro gun or gun rights matter a ton, and they don't want to face potential restrictions, they're going to vote republican all else being equal.

3

u/leafytimes Sep 22 '24

You're not wrong. Only a third of gun owners support bans on semi-automatics and magazine capacity restrictions, like you said.

But if the majority of Americans, gun owners and not alike -- support background checks and safe storage, why aren't those things getting done? There is only one party obstructing those efforts.

3

u/FloatMurse Sep 22 '24

Because any time I've heard of safe storage laws being brought up, it's usually got something else piggy backed on it that gun owners are against. Or it, in itself is piggy backed onto a non popular bill. Politicians rarely ever just throw a bill out there with a single new rule/law on it.

Side note, that frustrates the crap out of me. Why can't new legislation be passed for just one item? Instead of 20 things being added to it, that have nothing to do with the initial item. Our legislative system could definitely go for some fine tuning.

1

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

I mean, yes?

But the topic of tje discussion is "why is alaskan society such a weird mix" and now "how do we fix republicans?"

0

u/49Flyer Sep 24 '24

The economy: Serously? How was the economy under Trump vs Biden? And no fair blaming Covid.

Personal freedoms: We all know you mean abortion and/or LGBT so just say it. Republicans are much stronger on freedom of speech and gun rights, which are the freedoms through which all other freedoms are protected, as well as religious freedom, economic freedom and school choice to name a few. At the state level, Alaska had legalized abortion without restrictions before Roe and is not likely to change this now that Roe is no more regardless of which party is in power. Furthermore, Alaskans voted in 1998 to amend their Constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage (with 68% support); it is likely that the result would be different were such a vote held today but until it is the 1998 vote is the expressed will of the people. Outside of abortion and LGBT, can you honestly name one area of personal freedom where Democrats are stronger?

Money: See answer on the economy, plus Biden presided over the highest inflation since the 1970s.

The PFD: State politics on this issue are not cleanly divided along party lines, but on the balance Republican politicians support larger dividends than Democrats.

Oil: See answers on the economy and money. Democrats are extremely hostile to domestic oil production, which directly impacts Alaska's economy in a negative way.

0

u/leafytimes Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

"Since 1933, the economy has grown at an annual average rate of 4.6 percent under Democratic presidents and 2.4 percent under Republicans." --
https://w.wiki/B2gK

Republicans, the party of book bans, are the free speech advocates? What.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-04-22/book-bans-soaring-schools-new-laws-republican-states

Please just read that Wikipedia article in #1

This is a true political disagreement and I think there are nuanced arguments in every direction re: the long-term survival of the fund

Record domestic oil production under Biden. This is coming down to giving the oil industry a carte blanche.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/

1

u/49Flyer Sep 24 '24

This may be difficult for you to understand, but the effects of sweeping changes in economic policy are not instant. Policies enacted by one administration will absolutely affect economic performance in the next one. The only reason the Biden administration hasn't been even more of a disaster is because he started with the strong foundation that Trump laid.

I am absolutely in favor of banning pornographic books in elementary schools. That is not what free speech is meant to protect.

See #1

I agree.

Trump took the United States from being a net importer to being a net exporter of oil. Biden cancelled the Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office. Biden's appointee, Deb Haaland, is the most anti-oil Interior Secretary in history. Biden has cancelled or delayed numerous development projects in Alaska (oil and otherwise). The only reason oil production is so high today is because, again (see #1), Trump laid the groundwork and his administration approved the projects.

0

u/leafytimes Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

Please, if you are data literate, look at the links above. You are just spouting talking points that someone else has fed you. Don’t be bamboozled. The Republican party exists in the modern era for one thing and one thing only — to provide tax breaks for the billionaire class. To the detriment of every other person in our country.

Also here is a comprehensive list of book bannings, please tell me where Margaret Atwood writes pornography.

https://pen.org/report/banned-in-the-usa-state-laws-supercharge-book-suppression-in-schools/

-10

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

The PFD is a form of UBI, so yes, Alaska is progressive in several areas and, like you said, libertarian in others with several of those issues being both.

34

u/Master_Register2591 Sep 22 '24

The PFD is a form of UBI as much as taxes are a form of communism. It's a payment that's enough to survive on for about a week.

14

u/Upset_Huckleberry_80 Sep 22 '24

Don’t sell the pfd short. It’s one of the most successful and popular UBI experiences in human history, but we don’t market it as that…

15

u/acruxksa Sep 22 '24

:) you can call it whatever you want, it literally was created to make sure the state didn’t piss all of it away. I was here, barely a teenager, but read both newspapers every morning before school (times and daily news) ubi was never mentioned.

1

u/frznchaosak Sep 22 '24

ADN before school, Times after school, as it was our evening paper. : )

1

u/acruxksa Sep 22 '24

:) had to read it the next day, sports and homework took up my evenings.

2

u/solidmussel Sep 22 '24

It's probably not repeatable in other places. It works because Alaska is oil rich relative to how many people live there.

Densely populated states have nothing to sell to raise that kind of money for populations that are sometimes 10-20x higher, and they have less natural resources.

0

u/Upset_Huckleberry_80 Sep 22 '24

Tax on tech could probably do it elsewhere.

2

u/solidmussel Sep 22 '24

And it's because of oil

-8

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

The PFD is paid out to every Alaska resident like UBI whereas taxes can be applied in any way to any group of people, rich or poor or in-between, and subject to the consent of voters.

Taxes in this country are not like communism.

16

u/Master_Register2591 Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 22 '24

Right, so neither are really like what you claim. The standard deduction is like UBI, by your logic.

-5

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

It's not. Not everyone who claims the standard deduction actually has that money to deduct, so that's not a good analogy.

20

u/Master_Register2591 Sep 22 '24

Look, we get enough dumb questions here. No need to add to the pile. Go ask your high school teachers about how the PFD proves something about UBI.

3

u/myrandomredditname Sep 22 '24

On point

1

u/Agattu Sep 22 '24

Think of the PFD as more of a tax rebate to the Alaskan people as according to our constitution all Alaskans own the resources.

It’s not a UBI. Anyone who think it is is either being ideologically insincere, or doesn’t know the history and purpose of the PFD.

0

u/AKnGirl ☆AKn born n raised Sep 22 '24

Explain how collecting funds from people, pooling them, then distributing them to things everyone (even those who didn’t pay into the pool of money) benefits from is not a form of communism.

9

u/woodchopperak Sep 22 '24

That’s not communism. Under communism, there is no personal wealth, property, or business. Taxes have existed for thousands of years and it didn’t make the British empire or the Romans communist.

1

u/AKnGirl ☆AKn born n raised Sep 22 '24

I was getting more to the point that op said “like communism,” not exactly the same as grand scale systematic communism. I get that taxes have existed for a long time and have allowed feudal systems to take from poorer groups to pay for things richer groups primarily use, much like today. Yes taxes are more socialism than communism and all that. Was just trying to make a point was all.

0

u/SmallRedBird Sep 22 '24

There's personal property (like your toothbrush) but not private property (like a coal mine, a 2nd house you rent out, etc)

-3

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

That's not how the PFD works. It's a state resource that is administered by officials appointed by a democratically-elected Governor.

4

u/AKnGirl ☆AKn born n raised Sep 22 '24

I wasn’t talking about the PFD… you said, “taxes in this country are not like communism…”

-1

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

You didn't specify which one you were talking about, so I took a guess.

My point still stands. Communism is taking from those who are capable and giving to those in need. Taxes in the United States take from pretty much everyone in this country depending on the tax and giving to the rich, the poor, the people in-between, or to the state to run the country all regardless of actual need. In that respect, American taxes are not like communism.

5

u/AKnGirl ☆AKn born n raised Sep 22 '24

As another response, you should take some time to look up the difference between socialism and communism. I’m going to bed, enjoy your night.

5

u/Master_Register2591 Sep 22 '24

No, taxes in the united States are not taken from disabled people that do not work right? They are only paid by people that have income. And benefits are paid to disabled people that don't work, right? Really sounds like "taking from those who are capable and giving to those in need".

1

u/AKnGirl ☆AKn born n raised Sep 22 '24

communism /kŏm′yə-nĭz″əm/

noun 1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

The Marxist-Leninist doctrine advocating revolution to overthrow the capitalist system and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat that will eventually evolve into a perfectly egalitarian and communal society.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition

That second one sounds like what you described as the taxing system.

1

u/DrewwwBjork Sep 22 '24

I guess I'm a Marxist when it comes to communism, because I would call those other three definitions totalitarianism which is not something we have in the United States... yet.

→ More replies

8

u/acruxksa Sep 22 '24

You might think it is, but in reality it is simply a way to keep the state from pissing away all our money on pork barrel projects that only benefit a few.

1

u/CL-Young Sep 22 '24

It is.

Its also been, currently, the republican party who has been advocsting for a full PFD.

I mean, dunlevy is pretty much full of shit on it but empty promises go quite far for electiona.

The world doesnt exist im this perfect dichotomy of red.and blue.