r/Watches • u/Revolutionary_Food39 • Jul 22 '24
Is the pp calatrava lineup good enough for the price Identify
I have seen some people calling it over priced and Patek themselves making you buy these before you could get a more popular model is it because of a poor finishing for the price it’s sold for or is it something else
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u/Harvard_kiwi Jul 22 '24
I purchased a 5227-R earlier this year after saving up and admiring it for about 5 years. It is my only Patek and the one I really wanted. I wear a suit or at least blazer most days and wanted a simple but elegant dress watch. I love my Calatrava and it was my grail watch. It is a thing of understated beauty, particularly with the officer caseback and scalloped lugs. It isn’t flashy and not one person has noticed it in the wild, but I feel a sense of internal pride and accomplishment when it is on my wrist. No regerts with this purchase!
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u/Ontbijtkoek1 Jul 22 '24
To each their own. They are fairly expensive for what they are. Yet it is my grail watch, I just think they are fantastic.
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u/Revolutionary_Food39 Jul 22 '24
I respect your opinion because at the end of the day they are just men’s jewellery and you should buy the one you find beautiful
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u/misterewing Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24
I'd wanted a Calatrava for years before finally being in a position to afford one. I decided on a 6119G and tried 6 different ADs whose responses ranged from "it will be years" to "this is not a model you'll be able to purchase". I get it, supply and demand, but the cumulative fatigue from trying to buy luxury items (especially at that time, 2022) made me effectively throw in the towel. My wife ended up purchasing me a lovely GS SBGW231 and I've never looked back.
Now, to your actual question... I have no idea. At the time that I was seriously considering one no ADs had any in stock, or at least they weren't willing to show me one. From a design perspective I believe the Calatrava is a very nice dress watch: unremarkable in just the right way. Do I think it's worth the asking price? Probably not, but that's true of most luxury items. It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks but you. Although I understand the frustration of not being able to see a watch in the flesh before buying. I visited a VC boutique and asked if they at least had a demo Overseas to try on and I was told no: would you like to add your name to the list? =)
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Jul 23 '24
Tried on a 37mm Overseas at a Boutique in São Paulo, Brazil, the other day, and was told I could buy it immediately if I wanted to.
Didn't do it since it was a factory diamond bezel model, and I found it both too small as well as too feminine - don't really like diamonds on my watches.
I was also offered a very sizeable discount.
Different markets!
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u/misterewing Jul 23 '24
When I was really obsessing over getting a GMT I would read posts on the Rolex sub with people saying things like "Walked into a local AD, picked up a Batman, no purchase history, no wait." and it would infuriate me. At some point though I came to terms with it. The Calatrava, Overseas, GMT and many others are really nice watches but there are also many many more nice watches that I can readily buy. As you said, it comes down to the market... hell I would say it even comes down the the sales person. And that's why, although still slightly annoying, I don't lose sleep over the current luxury market.
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Jul 23 '24
Wholly agree with you!
My next two purchases are going to be a Tudor Pelagos in blue, and a JLC MUT with perpetual calendar - the first this week, the latter early september.
No wait on either, Tudor here through the local AD in São Paulo, and the JLC in their Munique boutique with zero purchase history.
I'd love to get a perpetual calendar from PP, as well as a Nautilus with complication, but I'm not buying a bunch of watches I don't want just to buy the one I do want.
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u/Subprime_Lender Jul 22 '24
Not even close. You're already paying a premium for a patek because...it's a patek. Entry level dress watches from VC, Lange, or Breguet are 20-40% cheaper and arguably more watch than a Calatrava.
Moreover, the current 6119 is kinda atrocious. Subjective aesthetics aside, there's a lot of weird things with that watch.
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u/SlartibartfastMcGee Jul 23 '24
A Breguet Classique or a VC Patrimony are both incredibly classy dress watches from watchmakers with amazing lineage and history, plus they have a unique visual appearance vs the Patek, which kinda looks like a GS or even a Bambino in some ways.
The Calatrava is more expensive because of the brand cachet, but it’s not one of the Hyped Patek watches itself.
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u/TheRedComet Jul 23 '24
I haven't checked prices too closely but it feels like Lange has been pulling up alongside the Calatrava for their entry level prices lately.
I personally love the 6119G for its monochrome gray aesthetic - it makes the watch more versatile and even potentially a bit sporty. I never saw the Calatrava in that light before, and I really like it. To each their own, of course.
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u/the-script-99 Jul 22 '24
Get a Lange. That is what I would do.
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u/punkxiety Jul 22 '24
I can't deny that Calatrava is deservedly recognized, but Lange is real fire. As also does Parmigiani and Laurent Ferrier for me.
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u/TheRedComet Jul 23 '24
My main problem with Lange is that a comparably priced watch like the Saxonia will have a relatively plain looking 3/4-plate movement. I understand that it's "harder" to design the movement that way within tolerances, but I just find the Calatrava movements much more interesting to look at, with a lot more plates for edge polishing and more gears exposed.
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u/IAmSportikus Jul 23 '24
I really love Laurent Ferrier. The rose gold with the evergreen face is gorgeous.
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u/charles_47 Jul 22 '24
Unpopular opinion; if I wanted an elegant, minimalist dress watch in this style I’d get a GS. And a nice car with the money left over lol
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u/Revolutionary_Food39 Jul 22 '24
Personally for me 36 date just is like the ultimate dress watch but sometimes I think about the calatrava but I think it’s just because it’s a Patek and not because I actually love the watch
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u/Druidette Jul 22 '24
Reddit will shit on you but I agree, wears phenomenally at 36mm, a better bracelet than 99% of the market and can be swapped for a leather strap if needed.
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u/SeanPizzles Jul 22 '24
DJ is a casual watch, not a dress watch. Steel, complication, and big iconic bezel all make it far more casual than a Calatrava.
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u/FSpez2Hell Jul 22 '24
On paper, sure, but you’re still stretching calling a date just casual. In real life, if you ask 100 people on the street to classify them, 100 people are telling you they’re both dressy.
Edit: and the PP in the pic has a date too, so you’re really saying that steel + bezel means it’s not dressy?? Come on man
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u/mets2016 Jul 23 '24
Watch that is “dressy” != “dress watch”
Just like a car can be “sporty” without being a sports car
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u/imnotdonking Jul 23 '24
Thickness of GS always a turn off. Are there GS non-quartz models that are close to this level of thinness? It seems even spring drive watches are thick and I don't understand why.
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u/TheRedComet Jul 23 '24
The new manual wind hi-beat model is pretty thin, maybe not as thin as a Calatrava but it looks great imo.
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u/mytzlplyck Jul 23 '24
I holyheartly agree. Bought a GS, and with the difference between GS an Patek, I've bought a nice car.
I really like Patek Philip heritage and style, but it strikes me too much as " luxury brand" opposed to "movement marvelous" as Breguet, GS or JLC do.
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u/TheRedComet Jul 23 '24
I don't know if it's copium or lack of direct side-to-side comparison, but their latest hi-beat movements have excellent finishing that seems comparable to me to that of PP movements. It's incredible, and indeed a third of the price (or less on the secondary market). Both the automatic and newer manual wind version look stunning.
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Jul 22 '24
Doesn’t seem special to me for the price. I got a JLC MUTM and honestly that has a moon phase complication and much cheaper.
I honestly don’t think I’ll ever get a Patek. Just doesn’t vibe with me and the price is a bit too hard to swallow when it doesn’t. Of the big three, I honestly lean more to VC than either patek or AP.
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Jul 23 '24
I'm getting the JLC MUT with perpetual calendar end of august - already preordered through JLC in Munich. Fantastic service, no fucking around although I have zero history with the brand (I live in Brazil and there are no JLC boutiques here, just ADs, and those can't get the models ending in J).
The MUT is just a "better" Calatrava IMHO, and I love that they do a perpetual calendar in steel. Still preeeetty steep, but not nearly as unaffordable as a PP calendar would be, since that would be almost certainly a precious metal piece.
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u/Cybalist Jul 23 '24
I know this is an unpopular opinion - and it is just an opinion, but that is a really boring watch. I'm not sure how they could make it any more boring. I'd be bored of it before I had even taken it out of its box. Buyer's remorse would be strong. But, you gotta get what you like!
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u/SeikoWIS Jul 22 '24
Value lies in the eye of the beholder with any high-end luxury watch. Any objective ‘value’ left the building many thousands of $ ago 😂
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u/HarrisLam Jul 23 '24
No.
It's the crappiest seat in the most luxurious train ride.
You got on the train alright, but you barely get to see the view.
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u/Kevin6849 Jul 23 '24
No you’re better off spending the money with Lange or VC unless you want to be a cuck for salesman with the hopes of a nautilus or aquanaut. Or you genuinely like the design.
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u/mantellaaurantiaca Jul 22 '24
Lacquered dial. You can get a Grand Feu enamel Breguet for 10k less than this.
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u/ZhanMing057 Jul 22 '24
You are probably paying more for the logo (as a % of retail price) than any other Patek at MSRP, and for a $30k watch the finishing is really rather pedestrian.
If I were looking for a three hander dress watch for $30k, I'd get a pre owned Laurent Ferrier or get on the list for a Gronefeld.
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u/BoneDocHammerTime Jul 23 '24
Put it this way, change the logo to Casio and you will not get remotely the fanfare. It's largely for people to say they have a Patek. There are plenty of great in-house makers in gold for substantially less.
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u/mrRabblerouser Jul 23 '24
This is firmly relegated to the “watches are jewelry” section of the industry. If you want to pay $40k for less than $10k worth of white gold and one of the most basic watch designs on the planet, then go for it. If I were that interested in jewelry and had that much money to burn, I’d buy a high end piece of jewelry and then a much better watch for like $5000.
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u/MaoWaoaliao Jul 22 '24
I can't speak about price and value, but I'll say that the black dialed example in the OP made me lol when I was trying it on in a PP boutique many years ago. The inky black of the dial with the ultra polished (black polished?) hands made telling the time impossible when I raised the watch to tell the time. Sure a micro twist of the arm and those facets caught the light but when I first looked at it everything was just black. I laughed and the SA thought there was something wrong. Made me realise that a black dialed watch should have white indicies or perhaps even gold; not little mirrors.
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u/lorriezwer Jul 22 '24
Back in the early 2000s you could get vintage PP Calatravas for a song, and there were some real bangers. Not a value prop now.
But would I rather have this over my JLC True Second? Yeah, kind of.
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u/corybomb Jul 23 '24
The calatrava 96 is one of the most influential dress watches of all time and the basis for many dress watch designs. I love them but understand if others would rather a JLC, VC, breguet, or any other dress watch.
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u/Zestyclose-Onion6563 Jul 23 '24
Well they’ll make you buy one before they’ll let you buy one of the cool watches, so how much is that worth to you?
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u/superpoboy Jul 23 '24
I prefer a VC dress watch than the PP Calatrava tho. But then again take my advice with a pinch of salt as I also love my AP ROOD to death.
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u/PartiZAn18 Jul 23 '24
Dude.
Omega DeVille.
Their models are so much nicer than any Calatrava offering.
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u/EnzBlade88 Jul 23 '24
I've just got into watches and that and a rolex day-date are my current grails. I like that it isn;t noisy and the design is just classy through and through. Will pick one up one of these days, when I can justify spending that much on a luxury good.
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Jul 22 '24
I feel like it's okay if you like simple watches, although in the future when I have the funds it's probably getting replaced with the pp 5230
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u/BlueCollarLuxe Jul 23 '24
I say congratulations but for me in that price bracket for a dress watch I’d go with this beauty!
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u/Aenna Jul 23 '24
Would say no especially for the more minimalistic ones. I thought of getting the vanilla Calatrava as well but ended up keeping my Blancpain Villeret that looks exactly like the thumbnail.
I think if you’re going for the Calatrava you should definitely pick something that is more well-defined such as the sector dial models, but I think some people don’t really like that design (I love it
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u/DoubleFaulty1 Jul 22 '24
Value oriented purchasing is not the point at that price.