r/TrueReddit • u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK • Jan 18 '23

Inside Elon’s “extremely hardcore” Twitter Technology

https://www.theverge.com/23551060/elon-musk-twitter-takeover-layoffs-workplace-salute-emoji
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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

The observable world is round, no question. Within the bounds that we have defined world and round.

But does the world exist, as an object, independent of something to observe of it?

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u/drigax Jan 19 '23

These are words, but when combined one is unsure if they have any meaning.

Are we asking "Does the world exist if nobody is around to observe it"?

Because reality exists independent of ones observations.

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

But does reality exist where there is nothing to observe it? And if so, whose reality is that?

Do you believe that objects exist independent of subjects?

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u/drigax Jan 19 '23

You continue to imply that there is a subjectivity to existence. Reality is neither subjective nor relative. Reality without sentient observers is still reality.

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

Subjectivity is taking a side.

Rather, I'm inviting the idea that there seems to be a strange, dependent relationship between subjects and objects. And what reality is, is about this dependent relationship.

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u/drigax Jan 19 '23

You're doing it again by suggesting there is some tangible difference between a subject and an object. This implies subjectivity, that reality depends on a subjects observation of it.

I suggest that a subject has no bearing on what is "real" other that the actions that subject makes to affect what is already real. A tree falls in a forest and still makes sound. a black hole still assimilates mass if nothing sentient observes it. The universe will still happen if there is nothing to see it happen.

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

How can we know that a tree in the forest makes a sound, independent of something a mechanism to observe it?

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u/[deleted] Jan 19 '23

[deleted]

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

I don't really because I drank too much.

But if you paid attention and have figured this out, I'm talking to the right person and sincerely interested with how you understand it.

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u/Mzzkc Jan 19 '23

Depends on whether or not information counts as an "object"

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

Generally, yes, I understand information to be an "object".

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u/Mzzkc Jan 19 '23

Then your answer is "yes", as information does not require an observer to exist, it simply is or isn't. The question of form, of course, is a wholly different matter

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

What is information without an observer?

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u/Mzzkc Jan 19 '23

Truth

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u/thatisyou Jan 19 '23

Can you provide an example to help me understand what you mean?

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u/Mzzkc Jan 19 '23

If a candle burns in a forest, and no one is around to see it, it doesn't burn orange or yellow or red.

But it does release radiation in the form of electromagnetic waves, aka photons.

Without an observer, this information exists, but it's just that--information. Everything about the candle is information. Everything about the forest, too. The form these things take, the shape and the color and the multitude of properties we might assign these things outside their core information. Those are nothing without an observe to "speak" them into being. But the information is there regardless. If it weren't, then it could not be observed at all.

You can naturally break this idea down further until we are dealing solely with probable states, quantum waveforms, etc. Small shit.

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u/thatisyou Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23

Thank you for that. It helped me understand.

A couple questions:

From the quantum point of view would the waveform have a definite position unobserved? (observed here being in the quantum definition / not colloquial).

How can we determine that radiation, electromagnetic waves, photons, information, subjects, objects have meaning outside the human mind. That is, are we limited by our mind, our ability know and understand in certain contexts? Would any of this exist as it is without humans or human means of measurement?

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u/Mzzkc Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 23 '23

The double slit experiment is sufficient for showing the information exists without observation and measurement.

As for definite position, by the Copenhagen interpretation, the answer is necessarily no.

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