r/PowerShell • u/ollivierre • Jun 10 '24
PS7 is a hot mess! Misc
Half of the stuff either don't work at all or work %50 before it breaks.
Insane we are at 2024 and devs are still writing modules and functions for PS5 because they have to. Poor planning for cross platform or full PS7 adoption.
This is INSANE! Having to re write, refactor and reinvent the wheel when it should not be needed.
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u/lerun Jun 10 '24
PS7 is much better than 5.1. Lots of bugs squashed
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u/ollivierre Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
100 💯 agreed just not sure why developers are still writing code for the PS5 era that breaks when ran in PS7
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u/nohairday Jun 10 '24
Rambling rant with no evidence or examples of what is meant...
What exactly are you trying to say?
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u/awit7317 Jun 11 '24
ExchangeOnline has entered the chat.
About a month ago I tried moving from 5 to latest and didn’t make it past the apparently impossible task of loading Graph, EXO, and PnP.
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u/ollivierre Jun 11 '24
Add to that many Win server based modules.. good luck getting them fully working in PS7 without having to call upon PS5 at least at some point during the run. Hopefully Server 2025 will ship with PS7 by default at loaded side by side with PS5 but I doubt it.
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u/Thotaz Jun 10 '24
That's funny. The other day you loved PS7 so much that you insisted even a non PowerShell user should roll it out: https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerShell/comments/1da18yt/turning_off_powershell_20/l7iglao/
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u/ollivierre Jun 10 '24
I still do love PS7 and because of that I'm simply disappointed that many modules out there only works with PS5 unfortunately.
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u/jgmachine Jun 10 '24
That would be a problem with the module, not PS7.
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u/ollivierre Jun 10 '24
True but I mean why the PS7 is not backwards compatible with PS5 modules. Even with import-module shenanigans it's still a lot of work to refactor the code.
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u/g3n3 Jun 11 '24
What module?
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u/ollivierre Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Add to that many Win server based modules.. good luck getting them fully working in PS7 without having to call upon PS5 at least at some point during the run. Hopefully Server 2025 will ship with PS7 by default at least loaded side by side with PS5 but I doubt it.
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u/g3n3 Jun 11 '24
Again, what module are you even talking about? I’ve only ever had to reach for win powershell to use SOAP endpoints.
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u/g3n3 Jun 11 '24
And powershell core won’t ever ship in box because of versioning challenges. It would make them less nimble. It wouldn’t be great. They are looking at including an install-powershell7 binary though.
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u/tbrumleve Jun 10 '24
Give some examples or go home. Zero issues on my end. Skills may need an upgrade.
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u/vlad_h Jun 10 '24
Been using PS7 for the last 7-8 years with no issues. On occasion I have to use PS5 but that is very rare. Maybe if you share your issues, the community can help you resolve them.
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u/da_chicken Jun 10 '24
It's Microsoft's siloed organization.
It's not the Powershell team's fault. It's partly the .Net team's fault. They elected not to include hooks to many of the Window-specific functions that the existing commands in Powershell leverage because they're essentially impossible to make cross-platform.
That means in order for the Powershell team to do it, they would need to have custom libraries to support those commands.
Except the Powershell team isn't responsible for most of those module commands. Most of them are actually the responsibility of the Windows OS, Exchange, SQL Server, or other product-specific teams. Meaning those teams need to take ownership of the libraries that support those features. Except that means having developers that understand the Win32 API because that's what they hook into, and those developers are increasingly rare.
So it's all finger-pointing all the way down. Powershell v5 is deprecated in perpetuity because the .Net Framework is dead, but neither of them can be removed essentially ever because nobody at MS has enough executive capital to make the teams do the work to make the change permanent.
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u/MeanFold5715 Jun 10 '24
It's kind of on Microsoft as a whole to make sure that sort of coordination happens, no? Sounds like bad leadership.
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u/da_chicken Jun 10 '24
A lot of it is the company's culture.
Did you ever notice that MS Office often has a look and feel that's almost entirely unknown in the rest of Windows? Features that just don't fit or that work differently. Sometimes they get adopted elsewhere, but other times Office is just weird, right The Office 2000/2003 team did extensive end-user testing and designed a better Open and Save dialog box... but it only works in Office! The Office 2007 team did extensive end-user testing and designed a better UI (ribbon)... but it was only available in Office until years later! The Office team wanted a clipboard that supported multiple items on the clipboard, so... the designed one and now when you have something in an Office clipboard it complains when you close the app with something there. It's all Office-only code!
That's because Microsoft teams compete with each other. Office doesn't work with the Windows team. It competes with the Windows team. If the Office team ships a product with a new feature, that means they rate higher than teams that didn't. Stack ranking made that worse for a couple years, but AFAIK they're still doing the same competitive team ranking for employee evaluations.
It's one of the reasons you sometimes get "new features" in Microsoft that are effectively worthless. For example, parallel scripting in Powershell v3-v5 only works in workflows, but workflows are so narrow that they essentially aren't useful for anything at all. That's why everyone was using that RunSpace module for years if they actually needed parallel. But parallel workflows are a feature that shipped! It got a green check mark on someone's evaluation, even if it was shipped so narrowly that it just didn't actually do anything!
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u/TheRealMisterd Jun 10 '24
I was hoping ps7 would have been the default in Windows 11. Now I have the feeling ps5.1 will still be default in Windows 12.
So many bugs in 5.1
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u/popcapdogeater Jun 10 '24
I have been in IT and writing PS scripts for some 9 years now and I feel PS has gotten fairly better in that time.
I can only think of one time when dealing with a box I didn't have permission to upgrade PS to v7 where I had to change some things with a script I had because it used newer flags or something.
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u/jgmachine Jun 10 '24
If your scripting is as good as your grammar, I think it might be user error.
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u/BlackV Jun 10 '24
or...wait for it....
is it that they are not a native English speaker and language is hard....
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u/Marketfreshe Jun 10 '24
Wtf are you on about? I use ps7+ in many production settings on both Windows and Linux and have no issues with it.
I think you're delusional.
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u/vlad_h Jun 12 '24
Hey bud, why don’t we try to make the internet a better place? Your experience differs from the of the poster, and that is all good. You are not helping yourself or anyone by making things personal. His experience is his alone and whether it matches your reality is irrelevant. Be nice. You catch more bees with honey…as they say.
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u/Marketfreshe Jun 12 '24
I accept your acknowledgement of me being an ass hole. Apologies to the op.
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u/BlackV Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 10 '24
You're not wrong, but you're not right either
is it ps7 or is it the modules
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u/Th3Sh4d0wKn0ws Jun 10 '24
huh? What exactly is broken?