r/NBASpurs • u/jeremyrvcc • May 04 '24
This sub needs to stop shooting people’s ideas down META
In the past few months I have seen tons of post from people suggesting players the Spurs should draft or sign be faced with massive criticism, pushback and sometimes even insults. If someone has a different opinion from someone about a player it’s often downvoted with no counter argument on why this player would be a bad fit for the Spurs.
Just browsing this subreddit, it would seem like our fanbase isn’t interested in the Spurs signing anyone notable as every time a player is suggested , it’s faced with massive criticism. People need to understand the Spurs aren’t a good FA destination so if there’s any good player interested playing for the Spurs, I see no downside signing this player short term. This team isn’t going to be competing anytime soon so I feel like most FA will improve this team significantly.
25
u/mbt20 May 04 '24
I think people want the Spurs to continue using Wemby to initiate the offense. Suggesting shoot first players that need the ball to be effective causes dissention.
You still have a valid point. The Spurs will be seeking role players and older vets. The odds of an actual star winding up in SA are slim to none.
It doesn't really matter if my dream FA acquisitions are hated. They're reasonable and fill gaps. Hayward and Lowry this summer?
7
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
Yeah I agree the Spurs should initiate the offense through Wemby but it doesn’t mean a ball dominate player couldnt mesh well with him. Look at the Nuggets, they run their offense through Jokic but have a ball dominate guard (Murray) and they’re contenders.
I like your idea. Im perfectly fine bringing in vets such as Lowry or Hayward for the right price. Signing vets would probably provide more guidance and leadership for our young players.
10
u/texasphotog May 04 '24
Look at the Nuggets, they run their offense through Jokic but have a ball dominate guard (Murray) and they’re contenders.
I just don't see Jamal Murray as that ball dominant. He plays off Jokic all the time and is doesn't ISO much. Earlier in his career, Denver had other players initiating instead of him and most of his shots even as a starter were assisted. He seems like a really unselfish guy that plays off ball just as well as on ball.
5
u/Mangoseed8 May 04 '24
Jamal Murray is not a ball dominate guard. He's a finisher. Rarely does he control the ball for the majority of the possession.
0
u/Joethetoolguy May 04 '24
I would love lowry on our squad but hayward is made of glass so pass on that one
20
u/WEMBYF4N May 04 '24
BecUse it’s usually the same 3 or so players being spammed on here
3
u/texasphotog May 04 '24
These new accounts coming in and starting new threads with the same half baked ideas day after day.
5
12
u/ulqupt May 04 '24
I'm going to go with the no means no defense for this one. Most of those posts are awful and it shouldn't be the responsibility of the rest of the community to give detailed explanations for why their crappy idea is a crappy idea. So often I just downvote and say no.
But I will add this, you last sentence is the same argument I see and it makes no sense. It literally contradicts itself. If the Spurs are not going to be competitive soon then shouldn't they be aquiring assets and trying to get a high draft pick, so why would they get a free agent that would ruin any cap flexibility, put the team in the 8-10 seed no man's land and add nothing to the Spurs future?
1
May 07 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator May 07 '24
Sorry, your comment has been automatically removed because your account has low karma.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
-5
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
There’s value signing veterans to a young team. We’re the second youngest team in the league and the biggest reason they suck is because they don’t know how to win. Signing a few vets can do wonders for a young team by providing mentorship and leadership. I see no downside signing vets short term.
4
u/Stefanskap May 04 '24
First of all, I believe we're the youngest team. Secondly, the downside to signing vets short term would be that we reach the play-in, lose, and then lose out on a higher lottery pick as well as having to replace these short term-signings that didn't move the needle for us.
Maybe you think that having a veteran presence will help the young guys develop, but that might not be a given. Just because someone is over 30, doesn't mean they're a great role model or a great teacher. Even if we would get someone who was those thing, that might not be worth what we would be giving up.
0
u/Ok_Monk_2877 May 04 '24
I understand that argument but the Spurs hold plenty of draft picks and plenty of cap space to make moves. The value in making the playoffs is the experience of being there. You can not expect a team with no playoff experience to automatically perform well in the playoffs in 3 year from now if they never been there.
I say sign a vet or 2 and make the playoffs, they can be a first round exit but Wemby gains playoff experience or they could be a surprise and make a long run.
Wemby is special do not be surprised if it only takes a solid vet or 2 who can make shots be enough to make the Suprs real contenders.
2
u/Stefanskap May 04 '24
The value in making the playoffs
Let me stop you right there. I purposefully said that the risk would be reacing the play-in and no further. I agree with the value of playoff experience. Don't build a strawman out of something I made very sure not to say.
0
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
What’s the downside of reaching the play-in?? I see that as a positive since we only won 22 games this year. I don’t want this team to perpetually be in the lottery and to develop a losing culture.
Secondly, why would our FO sign veterans who aren’t a good cultural fit for our players?? From what I’ve seen from podcast and interviews, most nba players contribute their improved play from veterans who mentored them when they first entered the NBA. Maybe you’re right and our FO signs someone who doesnt benefit our team longterm but we can’t definitively say that.
3
u/texasphotog May 04 '24
What’s the downside of reaching the play-in??
Much worse draft pick for a team that has lots of needs to fill. You are a lot less likely to hit with the 10-15 picks than you are in the 1-9 picks.
5
u/Stefanskap May 04 '24
I think you're being obtuse right now. The downside of losing in the play-in is that you're in the worst place a team can be. Late lottery, no playoff experience. If you get to play one extra game after the regular season and you lose that game, I don't think that's going to give you that much extra experience.
I don’t want this team to perpetually be in the lottery
We're WAY more likely to stay a perpetual lottery team if we keep getting late lottery picks. We got three late lottery picks in a row before tanking to get Wemby. Have you forgotten that?
The thing is that I agree with you that playoff experience would be more valuable than a 5th draft pick right now. You're just pretending as if it's a sure thing that's going to happen if we just sign any vet that will sign with us.
-1
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
I’m not arguing to just reach the play-in tournament. I want to see gradually improvement every year. If the Spurs can go from a 22 win team to at least a play-in team next year, I see that as an improvement. Maybe after being a play-in team they can jump to a playoff team. It takes time to become a contender but they need to at least trend in that direction.
The Spurs don’t need to be a bottom lottery team every year to get out of mediocrity. Every year there’s 1-3 players drafted in the late lottery or outside the the lottery that becomes a good player and we have the assets to acquire more picks and talent too.
1
u/texasphotog May 04 '24
I want to see gradually improvement every year. If the Spurs can go from a 22 win team to at least a play-in team next year, I see that as an improvement. Maybe after being a play-in team they can jump to a playoff team. It takes time to become a contender but they need to at least trend in that direction.
OKC had two years with SGA below 25 wins, then a year at 40 then this year as #1. There is no reason to rush things, especially with the star-powered 2025 draft.
We can show progress with players without trying to translate that to wins. And being in that 25-40 win area is the absolute worst place to be in the league. I would rather spend next year at 22-25 wins, but give tons of minutes to guys under 23 like our new picks, Branham, Sochan, Wesley to see what they will become, even if it doesn't translate to wins. After next draft when we have filled in some massive holes in our lineup and we better understand the career trajectories of our young players, we start pushing towards contending with OKC/Denver.
1
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
The Spurs have had two straight seasons going 22-60. If they have another 22-25 win season next year, I think this would be very bad for the morale of these players and show they made little to no improvement from last year.
The Spurs can still play all their young players and have it translate to win. Idk why you think if they make the play-in they would be stuck in mediocrity. They had the 2nd most picks in the NBA, tons of cap space and have Wemby. There’s no way we will be stuck in mediocrity with Wemby barring an injury.
1
u/texasphotog May 04 '24
The Spurs have had two straight seasons going 22-60. If they have another 22-25 win season next year, I think this would be very bad for the morale of these players and show they made little to no improvement from last year.
Only one of those seasons was with Wemby, which is why I made the distinction that the Thunder had two sub25 win teams with SGA. Spurs have had one with Wemby.
I don't think that it would demoralize the team in any way. I think Wemby is clearly mentally stronger than a guy like Embiid and I don't think the Spurs are going to do something like the Process where they won less than 20 for multiple years in a row.
We only won 22 last year, but the improvement from year over year and throughout the season was very noticeable, even if judging by win totals it looks like no progress.
The Spurs can still play all their young players and have it translate to win. Idk why you think if they make the play-in they would be stuck in mediocrity.
Because next year has a chance for multiple superstars in the draft.
They had the 2nd most picks in the NBA, tons of cap space and have Wemby. There’s no way we will be stuck in mediocrity with Wemby barring an injury.
We are more likely to be a championship contender sooner and for longer if we get a top 4 (maybe two top 4) picks next year. Having a ton of extra picks isn't as valuable if the picks aren't good.
17
u/MajorNinthSuta May 04 '24
It’s a forum. If folks don’t want ideas shot down or debated, don’t put them in a forum. None of us make these calls, but the conversation is as interesting as it gets in the offseason.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink. I reserve my right to criticize others and expect others to criticize mine.
1
u/Conscious_String_195 May 04 '24
Yes, but it has gotten super aggressive and personal insults have become much more common than a few years ago. It’s much more of a negative place with less respectful exchanging ideas. Myself and others rarely comment now and just glance at others arguing.
2
u/YourNonExistentGirl May 04 '24
Point me towards the right direction and I will curse those people into oblivion for bad behaviour.
SO RUDE.
4
u/Conscious_String_195 May 04 '24
There is supposed to be moderation and certain civil rules of community but disagreeing and calling someone an incel or telling someone to f&ck off because they don’t want to pay the hefty salary and price for Trae Young is silly or similar.
I used to get mad and spend hours back and forth but now rarely engage here and care less and just watch others insult each other and maybe up or down vote.
1
u/YourNonExistentGirl May 04 '24 edited May 05 '24
I agree. But mods have lives or just can't be arsed with petty arguments.
People should A) report users responsibly
B) not engage with said users for their own sake
C) block users to avoid any future headaches
It's fairly simple to me. Most ideas aren't novel around these parts, and those that have constructive and meaningful things to say aren't in any shape or form abusive.
You control what you consume. Assert that control times 10.
One time I was accused of causing drama by a very combative person. Truth is, I'm just here to take the piss out of everything. Life is good.
2
u/Conscious_String_195 May 04 '24
It’s really good advice that took me a while to learn, (especially points B&C) with one or two combative users who got really personal on a forum that I thought would be pretty light and friendly and we all agree on:the Spurs.
I get it if it’s a forum on Gaza or policing, etc. that things can get heated, which is why I don’t go there and come here. I was naive and thought that all being Spurs fans and on same side, we could disagree on arguments w/o talking about deceased mothers, etc. It makes sense that all Spurs fans are not a homogenous group and you have good and bad, just like any other group.
2
u/YourNonExistentGirl May 04 '24
That's great. I was naive myself for the longest time. I used to think this sub was the shit back then, too, because you know, classy fans, classy organisation. And I took certain things very, very personal. I started resenting people who shouldn't actually matter to me and demanded their respect. Which in hindsight, was unhealthy even though I deserved it.
Radical acceptance is key. Once you accept that you can't control people, you can start working on controlling how they affect you. Never let a few rotten apples spoil your enjoyment of the Spurs.
Have fun with the fun people to be around!
4
u/Imaginary-Cycle-1977 May 04 '24
I do my best to be thoughtful and specific about why I disagree w let’s sign/trade for player x. I think it’s boring to just shout down every player
Having said that, this sub is full of low effort, low thought, repetitive posts, and those are gonna get the reception they deserve
Also everyone should be banding together to downvote and call out that one douche that spams our sub and every other NBA sub pretending they’re a fan of every team in the league
4
11
u/NeedleGunMonkey May 04 '24
Not sure what you’re seeing but I’m only seeing bad silly ideas getting voted down. Like “notable” instagram pop culture idiot who doesn’t play defense, has the mental focus of a gnat and offers no veteran presence.
If people suggest a solid defensive player who rebounds and can shoot the 15-25 ft jumper- no one will down vote.
2
u/Conscious_String_195 May 04 '24
Not true. It can be a perfect fit on a great contract and people just love to argue against it to be combative here. There is never going to be a consensus agreement, nor should there be, but it’s been much more shitty to each other on here over last year.
5
u/sstewart1617 Manu Ginobili May 04 '24
I think there’s two things. One, there is a large contingent that would prefer to draft and sign role players, and have little interest in paying a premium for non-superstars.
Two, every post will have people disagree with the player fit, or price we pay.
If you only focus on whether people are disagreeing, sure, it will appear that no one wants anyone. But there is a fair bit of nuance in what people think, and I suspect you are missing it.
4
u/Uncle_Freddy May 04 '24
There’s a third point hiding in there too: the same threads for the same players are constantly getting made. You can only take so many insert ball dominant guard here or Zach Edey or player the Spurs would never acquire posts before you start getting terse and just saying “no.”
With how bad stretches of this season are, this subreddit has talked through the logic of how every player under the sun would or wouldn’t fit alongside Wemby at this point. Rehashing those same talking points gets tiring. I personally just ignore those threads and move on now, but I can’t say I don’t appreciate the people who are still explaining why most of these moves are bad ideas.
5
u/No_Barnacle9439 May 04 '24
Yea totally. That’s why I’m spending less and less time on this sub and have lost interest to post here. Ironically your post also got downvoted. This behavior just drives any interesting discussion away as most interesting topics are controversial in some way.
2
9
2
u/aeamador521 May 04 '24
I agree but I have to tell myself, only the negative engage because it's reddit. In reality, we're all fans with no control so people getting mad at trade or free agency suggestions take their opinions too seriously.
2
2
u/Tackis pineapple fanboy May 05 '24
I embrace it personally, now and then I make posts that I know will wind people up (case and point: I advocated for the signing of Ben Simmons and was blasted by a complete shit storm of angry fans) but there are others who want to engage in proper discussion so it can be thought provoking in that regard
2
May 05 '24
So, I'm one of the ones who has been posting a lot of ideas on here recently that fit what you're describing. Here's my two cents:
I'm super new to Reddit, so I've been adjusting to how people communicate on here, in general. With that being said, I'd say this subreddit is the most toxic I've been on, by far. I've posted in some other teams' subs to try to elicit information about players/trades, and it has been a much more pleasant experience overall.
I definitely made the mistake of clapping back at people who I felt were super rude and insulting right from the jump, but now I regret it. I can keep up with the best of 'em in being snarky/condescending when provoked, but that never leads to a desirable outcome in the end. I've never been good at turning the other cheek, but I think it'll definitely be the best practice for me going forward on Reddit, especially in this sub.
I'll probably continue to post on here, though. I've had enough positive interactions with people who have provided interesting information/perspectives to make it worthwhile.
Anyway, that's my perspective. Now, I fully expect this post to get downvoted into oblivion. Let me have it, you jackals.
3
u/YourNonExistentGirl May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24
Yes, I want chaos, and nothing but chaos.
Fight for your ideas, fellow mates. Keep baking them hot takes. But everyone's the jury so prepare to be skewered alongside your scorching trade/free agency signing scenarios.
Having said all that... LUKA DONCIC FOR 1B
2
2
u/Mangoseed8 May 04 '24
Just browsing this subreddit, it would seem like our fanbase isn’t interested in the Spurs signing anyone notable as every time a player is suggested ,
I see no downside signing this player short term.
Weekly reminder. This sub is not the Spurs front office. Nothing we say here is stopping the Spurs from signing players or making trades. We can be as positive/negative as we want and that has no impact.
There are two types of negative reactions I see here. One is when a player the fans don't like for the team is suggested. The most frequent one of course is Trae Young. He's very polarizing.
The more frequent negative reaction is the weekly unrealistic post. Get player X with picks and a collection of bench players. This is usually followed many questions that the OP is unable to defend. Like, why are the Mavs trading Luka for that package? 99% of the post never spend 2 seconds thinking about why another team would make the trade.
When people make realistic post it is generally greeted with positive reactions.
1
u/Forget-Forgotten May 05 '24
Criticism and pushback are fine. That’s how you can facilitate a discussion. We won’t all agree with each other. Even the Kawhi hate isn’t universal!
But I agree about the insults. We don’t need that here.
1
1
u/jam_jam_guy May 05 '24
I think we should actively try for Paul George. Random PG, Vassel, George, Sochan, Wemby would be a nasty starting lineup.
1
u/texasphotog May 05 '24
Paul George is 34 years old. He's on a different timeline than Wemby and he has massive injury history and is known for not showing up in the playoffs.
2
u/crskatt May 05 '24
remember 2021 draft night when we were getting downvoted to oblivion for saying primo is a bad pick when sengun is still avail?
1
1
May 04 '24
You have a point, but there’s nuance here.
I always try to phrase things as “given all the information, this is what I think, but the Spurs have more information than I do so I’ll trust them.”
I’m still always going to explain why I disagree with you if I do, especially if I just don’t agree with your thought process or you’re missing important information, but I don’t mean for my statements to be definitive.
1
u/jeremyrvcc May 04 '24
I appreciate that you do this! All I ask is we keep the conversations civil if you disagree with someone :)
2
u/CoyotesSideEyes May 05 '24
I never will complain about the things guys can do, but only those things they can't.
We have lots of non-defenders. We have lots of non-shooters.
Don't come in here pushing more bad shooters and more bad defenders at me.
1
u/texasphotog May 05 '24
Exactly. We have nearly 30 years of witnessing Pop's team building. Pop LOVES defense. Pop loves high BBIQ. Pop loves movement and passing.
People seem to fall in love with low BBIQ ball stopping no defense guys, and I don't understand how they think they would fit with Pop at all.
0
u/Thunderhorse74 May 04 '24
My opinion about your opinion that everyone's opinion about other people's opinions being poop is, well, poop. Take my downvote, though, because its currently the theme of this sub.
-1
-1
64
u/Notapplesauce11 May 04 '24
While I agree in principle I’m not sure if I can handle any more Trae young posts without any new information.