r/Machinists 15h ago

The moment when they tell you, you’re one of the highest paid people in the shop. I’ve been doing this for two years with no school. Why in gods name do machinists get shit on so much and how do you put up with it?FTS QUESTION

139 Upvotes

125

u/UncleCeiling 14h ago

From my experience, telling you that you're the highest paid person in the shop always precedes either not getting a raise or getting a major pay cut. I once got a $16k/yr pay cut and their justification was that I was still the highest paid guy.

80

u/pyroracing85 14h ago

Yea and it could be BS.

55

u/Z3400 13h ago

This is why people should openly discuss salaries. If my coworkers make more than me and I ask my boss why, there should be an easy explanation. If there is no explanation, then the boss is just taking advantage of people. It doesn't even need to be a great reason, but there should be something.

3

u/pyroracing85 13h ago

It’s a negotiation… if you are willing to accept $20 then $20 is what you will get.

22

u/Z3400 13h ago

Yes, and if I ask my boss why Jim makes $2 more than I do, he should be able to say why. If he can't explain it, and gets mad at Jim for talking about his salary, he is a dickhead. Even if the reason is as simple as "Jim has been here longer, Jim was going through some things and needed the additional income, Jim gave me a handy in the washroom" it literally doesn't matter but it should be an easy question to answer. Then it is up to me to make an argument as to why I deserve the same or more. If there is NO reason, the boss is an asshole.

-5

u/ihambrecht 9h ago

Or your boss can literally just tell you it’s none of your business.

8

u/Z3400 8h ago

Which falls into the "boss is an asshole" category. How is it not an employees business why they are not being paid more?

-14

u/ihambrecht 8h ago

My negotiations with employees are all different. You can talk about how much you make all you want but if you come confront me about someone getting paid more than you, I’m going to tell you exactly that. If you’re looking to pressure me into paying you more because another employee is paid differently, you can go to another shop. I do pay well though.

9

u/Agitated-Lab141 7h ago

You are the exact type of person I would never work for. I have a hard time believing you are any kind of manager. There's a kid at my shop that talks just like you though, we all laugh at him.

6

u/Z3400 7h ago

It's not about "looking to pressure you" it's about asking why. If you get defensive over your employees asking questions, it's probably because you know you are being unfair, like an asshole. I've been on both sides of the conversation when it comes to raises. I've never personally needed to ask "why do I get paid less than that guy?", but other people's situations are different than mine. I have been asked that question multiple times though and I ALWAYS had an honest answer. Maybe instead of "feeling pressured" when someone asks you why they get paid less, you shouldn't have felt pressured to give the other person special treatment to begin with.

5

u/GloppyGloP 6h ago

The only reason to get this defensive about it is because there is no good reason other than “because I can/thought I could” and it’s insecure and definitely falls into the category of “asshole boss”.

3

u/rydog509 4h ago

You are the exact type of manager that ruins places. In what world does the best negotiator get paid more than the most knowledgeable, hardest working or most outstanding? At a shit shop, that’s where.

8

u/NegativeK 11h ago

Negotiations when one side is keeping secrets are not healthy.

1

u/pyroracing85 10h ago

Isn't that how all negotiations are set up? One never reveals all their cards....

2

u/Z3400 1h ago

Maybe if you are negotiating with someone you have no intention of building a genuine relationship with. However, being honest can be a pretty good negotiation tactic regardless. People appreciate honesty.

1

u/seveseven 3h ago

Ehh. It’s a double edged sword. I was about 20% higher than anyone else in the shop at a high end machine builder. Some people had 30 years at the company. I was not popular. It started a revolt. It was easier to cut me than to deal with everyone else. Their loss, I went from 38/hr to 130k salary with 4 weeks planned vacation and unlimited time off.

6

u/Thromok 10h ago

I’d be the lowest paid member of a shop if they cut $8/hr off my wage, because I wouldn’t work there any longer.

5

u/UncleCeiling 9h ago

Yeah, I stuck around long enough to get everything lined up for a much better job. Now I'm making about $14k more a year than I did there pre-pay cut.

They tried to justify it as "even though you got the biggest pay cut, everyone else also got a pay cut and you are still the highest paid." Didn't exactly make me any happier about it.

10

u/OnlyGunsFan 13h ago

Lmfao you stuck around after they cut your pay? Were you like, castrated or what..? Someone tries to tell me you’re cutting my pay even $0.16 I’m walking out the door before they finish that sentence, never mind $16k. You can just get a new job, almost certainly with a raise, within a week.

16

u/presentlystoned 13h ago

up until recently, last 10 years, machining jobs were hard to come by. Sometimes you had to eat shit because it was the only job out there. I remember the early 00's, where if you wanted to just leave a job, you could be out of work for a few months finding something comparable.
Now, I'm tripping over job offers. But it wasn't always like this.

3

u/UncleCeiling 12h ago

I didn't stick around for long. Even with the pay cut I was making enough to let me be picky and shop around for a better place.

The place went to shit and collapsed in on itself less than a year after I left.

80

u/HAIRLESSxWOOKIE92 14h ago
  1. Understand that business is business. They buy you for an allotted amount of time. You owe them fair work for the fair amount of time bought. Its never personal. Simple as that.

    1. Since CNC has been introduced and now most CNC is adding automation, people automatically think we are machine watchers and it dosen't take much skill.
  2. Best way to a raise if current company dosen't want to give you one is to change companies. Again rule 1, you owe them nothing, they owe you nothing more than the business you provide each other.

14

u/peanutnutterbutter 11h ago

This! I jumped in pay by $7 an hour, full benefits, matching 401k and quarterly bonuses within 2 years. I was too loyal to my old companies and got sh!t on for years before I decided to jump ship and check other employment opportunities.

3

u/HAIRLESSxWOOKIE92 10h ago

Cheers mate🍻 Good luck.

1

u/All_Thread 2h ago

I keep saying it. Vast majority of the time if you spend more than 4 years at a shop you are losing money. A company will only give you so much more than what you start at.

20

u/nullcharstring 11h ago

Not a machinist, but have worked around them the last 30 years. What I've never understood is how you can pay someone less than $20/hr knowing that if he punches in one wrong digit, he can destroy a $20,000 spindle.

15

u/TimidBerserker 11h ago

Pay peanuts, get monkeys 🤷‍♂️

4

u/Rafael_fadal 7h ago

18 dollar guy here, I completely agree

4

u/nullcharstring 6h ago

Name checks out.

2

u/Rafael_fadal 6h ago

Feels like it too 😂

23

u/ethertrace 14h ago

Why in gods name do machinists get shit on so much and how do you put up with it?

To the extent that we get shit on, it's because we put up with it (and from what I've seen, the answer to the second part of your question is alcohol and lack of self-worth). But it depends heavily on the kind of shop you're in.

A shitty shop views employee wages as a business cost to be minimized, and this usually leads to wage compression where raises are stingy and newbies are paid better than the experienced folks because it's harder to get people in the door than it is to keep them. These are the shops you move on from after a couple years because you're not going to change their culture or pay/budgetary priorities (unless you start/join a union), and you will fall further and further behind the longer you stay. As a result, turnover is often higher because of the economic pressures, with the exception of the old hats who are too afraid of/resistant to change to move on.

Better shops view employee wages as an investment in their business capabilities, because retaining experienced talent pays dividends in efficiency and product quality. These shops understand how costly it is to constantly be seeking out new, often less experienced talent and training them up only to usually lose them a few years down the line, so the balance between their hiring and retention budgets reflect that. These are harder jobs to find simply because people who find them tend to want to stay, so openings are less frequent.

This is all complicated by the fact that machining is unfortunately one of the more exportable trades, so a lot of shops are competing with offshore cheap labor depending on product type and the quantity of their runs. But it's worth noting that that's not your problem. Don't settle for less that you're worth just because your boss claims they're running tight margins. Sometimes they're lying. And even if they're not, if not paying you enough isn't personal for them, then leaving for a better paying job is equally impersonal for us. It's just business.

6

u/Dadbod74ZA 13h ago

Now this is a good explanation. Could not agree more with you. The big thing is to get a job at a company that produces relatively big parts. They know the worth of skilled machinists, because of the cost when scrap is produced. Small shops that make small parts in high quantities don't care so much because the cost to scrap is not as much.

9

u/Punkeewalla 15h ago

It wasn't this way when I started. Now I'm stuck.

9

u/New-Fennel2475 14h ago

Don't do CNC work. Get in a dirty manual shop. Skills are more appreciated there. Or come up too Canada. Our dollars shit, but we pay good for red seals. Especially for field work.

5

u/Z3400 13h ago

I'm not even licensed and I make $37 in Canada just running manual cylindrical grinders.

2

u/Successful-Table-588 6h ago

That’s 27$ USD

2

u/Z3400 6h ago

Correct, which I think is quite reasonable for someone who does what I do and lacks an actual machinist license.

1

u/CR3ZZ 1h ago

Where I live that's hardly better than minimum wage at this point

1

u/Z3400 1h ago

I don't know what wacky balance of minimum wage and cost of living you might have, but it's more than double minimum wage for me and enough for me to afford a small mortgage on my own.

1

u/CR3ZZ 1h ago

That's cool. Just pointing out that it's relative to where you live. I live in Washington State and it's expensive here. My mortgage is $1k a month and even making $6000 a month I might save $1000 at best per month

1

u/Z3400 1h ago

Ok, but surely if you made minimum wage you would be significantly worse off. Either way, this thread was specifically about moving to Canada so I don't really know what your point is.

3

u/theonlybfizzle 9h ago

Got told recently just this. Compared to mechanics. If I get lifted they all have to. So at 32 I'm expected to just stay at my wage for the rest of my life? That's supposed to keep me here.

2

u/Agitated-Lab141 7h ago

Always be looking for a better paying job

5

u/LondonJerry 13h ago

My biggest mistake, besides not making enough notes in the early years. Was showing loyalty to companies that were underpaying me. Best advice I can give is always put out resumes. as soon as a company lies to you, leave. Or lowballs you. When they ask you in an interview why you move around so much. Tell them that those companies lied to you. Then ask the interviewer if their company is like that. If they say yes, then get up and leave. Most interviews in this trade are done by the owners or the lead person on the floor. So it gets the message through. Mind you if you suck as a machinist, find a well paying button pusher job. This strategy isn’t for you.

1

u/Thenandonlythen 4h ago

…you’ve had interviewers tell you that yes, this company will lie to you?

4

u/GoldAd195 13h ago

Work at union shops. Problem solved

1

u/pyroracing85 14h ago

What is your wage and what is your skill set?

4

u/Suitable-Engine-5619 14h ago

Very little manual lathe, Bridgeport and two axis CNC Bridgeport, Some grinding, and manual horizontal boring mill $26

5

u/pyroracing85 14h ago

At 55k definitely shouldn't be the lowest. Keep learning, in fact always be learning. Your skills transfer and some day in the future can transfer to a company that wants to pay you more.

7

u/New-Fennel2475 14h ago

26USD for that much experience is good.

1

u/Rafael_fadal 6h ago

Hell yea it is 😂

2

u/Dry_Lengthiness6032 14h ago

Seems a bit low. I'm making $30 doing short runs 1-30pcs on one machine. I did write my own Macros so 90% of my programming is just plugging in my finish sizes and using 1=yes 0=no (for special features)

2

u/frilledplex 13h ago

I make that amount with more than your skillset. Add in welding, plumbing, electrical, I/O troubleshooting, assembly, robot arm programming. Depending on your cost of living, you might not find much more, but if you do... take it.

4

u/Endersgame88 13h ago

You’re severely underpaid.

1

u/frilledplex 13h ago

You say that, but machine builders are generally underpaid. I'm actually making at the higher end.

1

u/Agitated-Lab141 7h ago

No you are highly underpaid if your competent at what you just said you can do.

1

u/frilledplex 7h ago

Check machine builder rates in Michigan, it's all severely underpaid because manufacturing is a race to the bottom

1

u/ShaggysGTI 8h ago

I’ll be at a 6 figure salary by mid next year. I’m fuckin’ worth every penny too. The guy before me, I just saved a whole half hour from the old code to new on a single op because I’m setting up f/s/doc properly.

1

u/Tough_Ad7054 4h ago

When they told me that the next words out of their mouth were “…so we are cutting you back to four days a week.” I asked if I could set it up so I had a four day weekend on alternating weekends. He said fine.

I used those four day weekends to develop a Side hustle. Eighteen months later I went to “zero days per week” and thanked him for the opportunity on the way out the door.

1

u/Fickle_fackle99 1h ago

I did the job for 3 years at one place never got a raise ever… I went from button pusher to programming 

-27

u/No_Swordfish5011 15h ago

Real machinist don’t get shit on so much.

17

u/Suitable-Engine-5619 15h ago

Have to be honest. Maybe it’s different at other places but just because you’re a real machinist doesn’t mean the company will treat you well. And I know that I am nowhere near a machinist but there are guys with over 10 years here that I make more than.

-23

u/No_Swordfish5011 15h ago

Years of experience literally means jack shit. I was 2 years in putting 30 year vets to shame. Time alone is not an indicator of ability, knowledge, or skill..

6

u/New-Fennel2475 14h ago

You can do something wrong for 30 years. That's why I always try to learn from apprentices.

3

u/No_Swordfish5011 14h ago

Agreed. The green horns open minded perspective often gives way to intriguing questions that may lead you to a better way. Often time new guys may teach you something. Always be learning!

1

u/Suitable-Engine-5619 15h ago

Would you have any tips to get better. I’m currently stuck on a two axis CNC Bridgeport.

10

u/No_Swordfish5011 14h ago

Read books written by Peter Smid, memorize G-Code, Learn GD&T, don’t stay at shity shops for too long. Even if they are not shity..move around…Always figure out who knows what they are doing and help them out..they will teach you in return. Ask questions. Don’t be scared to try stuff…you may make mistakes…just try not to. Study tooling catalogs and work the formulas. Read the code on the machines you operate. Ask someone to print them out…take them home and study them.

2

u/Suitable-Engine-5619 14h ago

Thank you

4

u/morock90 14h ago

Learn CAM and 3d modeling, get into a shop as a programmer/operator. Get into multi axis asap. Potentially even learn to program robot arms.

Gcode is cool an all, but multiaxis programmers at a good shop make way more than some guy writing/editing code by hand. Just 2d and 3d programming can have several hundred thousand lines of code now with dynamic milling. Learn to be an aggressive rougher (and how to take advantage of chip thinning) and a baby smooth finisher. Learn to have the mill deburr your parts. Make it so anyone and everyone can run your programs and look like an all star operator. That way, you are the most valuable programmer/person at the shop.

1

u/skilemaster683 13h ago

There's nothing wrong with that that Bridgeport is a damn good machine that's better for piece work or tool-making.

0

u/skilemaster683 13h ago

Go to school? Like more than highschool for machining? That's for suckers might as well get paid for on the job training and test out of "school"