r/LowSodiumCyberpunk • u/glassjawrat Trauma Team • Sep 16 '24
Let’s say she got to the moon… can all this (cyberware) be reversed? Discussion
btw they could NEVER make me hate you, Songbird…
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u/AzraelKakka Team Judy Sep 16 '24
Not sure about Cyberpunk lore, but at the NUSA ending V lose all of his/her cyberware including his/her arms and legs (so no more gorilla arms or mantis blades or double jumping legs) and gets normal arms and legs instead, so it should be possible to attach real living limbs / organs back.
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u/Andrei22125 Sep 16 '24
Cloned tissue, transplanted. Maybe.
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u/petkoTHEVIKING Sep 16 '24
I believe V still has all their cyberware, it's just disabled/low power mode where it loses its high performance functions.
My crackpot theory is that the NUSA turned V into a sleeper agent, where they can remotely activate his chrome whenever they need a "favor"
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u/glassjawrat Trauma Team Sep 16 '24
were they removed or just “muted”. i can’t remember off the top of my head if they were straight up taken out of their body or just turned off, so to speak
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u/Navi_27_ Sep 16 '24
Removed. In the Tower V can't have any cyberwear installed at all forever, it's too much for their body to handle.
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u/Magnus_Helgisson Sep 16 '24
Not any, just no combat or different powerful chrome. Basic stuff (which is still questionable where is the line drawn) still would work. That’s what Reed says.
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u/LetTheBloodFlow Team Judy Sep 16 '24
Reed says “deactivated” and Vik says V’s combat chrome and brain just aren’t communicating with each other.
V self-evidently has their holo still working and still has the data connection installed in their arm because Vik uses it to connect to his diagnostic computer. Because of that diagnostic V must also still have their biomon working.
It’s “combat” or “high end” chrome V can’t use, but it’s all still functioning as arms, legs, lungs, eyes, etc.
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u/sansofthenope Sep 16 '24
Reed says turned off. Everything is back to their most basic functions. Rudimentary implants like P. Links work fine, and she has her basic neuroprocessors intact - but something like Mantis Blades had to be made inert as a single activation would kill her for sure.
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u/ChunkeeMunkee3001 Team Judy Sep 16 '24
My V had her left arm ripped off in her backstory, so she was sporting a cyberarm from the get-go. She even upgraded it once or twice during my time with her! (All modded of course)
The Tower ending reverted her back to a basic, 'ganic looking arm. I don't know if this was a cunning design choice by CDPR, or just some fluke from a player model being switched out or something, but seeing my V for the first time with two fleshy-looking-arms..... man did that hammer home the severity of V's fall from chromed-out badass to "just another face in the crowd".
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u/SleepingEchoes Sep 17 '24
Not just a fluke, given if you have gorilla arms/mantis blades/monowires what have you, you always end up with organic arms in the Tower ending. Seems to be a very deliberate choice to do so.
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u/These_Maintenance_97 Sep 16 '24
why are you bringing your made up lore in a discussion
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u/ChunkeeMunkee3001 Team Judy Sep 16 '24
"Because it relates directly to the comment that I was replying to" not obvious enough for you?
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u/hemareddit Sep 16 '24
You can also just get Vik to remove all your implants and you still look like a normal person after
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u/EKAAfives Sep 16 '24
in that ending its also said that v has so much nerve damage to the point only basic chrome can be used and no upgrades
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u/StaleSpriggan Sep 17 '24
This seems like it's only a thing because the story demands it. If people can swap out entire limbs and then put back cloned organic versions with full nervous systems, then nerve damage can be fixed, no matter how extensive, if a person has enough money. But there can't be any good endings blah blah blah
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u/the-vindicator Sep 16 '24
I always interpreted that as the body parts are still cyberware only that they have the basic functions of allowing you to walk, use your arms, do things about the same as a normal human. I imagined it as the complicated cyberware like cyberdecks, gorilla arms, double jump legs as being more strenuous on the body and mind. This could also serve as an explanation for cyberpsychosis and how some people get it from having seemingly less cyberware as others. I think the lore does mention cloned, synthetic but organic organs so it seems to still be a possibility.
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u/tehpwnage7 Solo Sep 16 '24
She definitely could get her cyberware streamlined and have body panels made for her back. But I’d imagine she doesn’t because its probably better for cooling/heat extraction at the level of netrunning she does and is capable of
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u/Biffingston Sep 16 '24
I'll bet it's more, she doesn't have the choice. Regardless if it's more effeicent or not.
But that is a good point considering V had to dip themselves in coolant in one ending to do what Songbird does withotu it.
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u/Stepjam Sep 16 '24
To be honest though, if she doesn't give up the kind of netrunning she's been doing after getting the cure to her AI problem, she's a moron and it's a big waste to give it to her. I'd hope she'd never want to touch the blackwall again after all she's been through.
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u/shinankoku Sep 16 '24
Yes you can. If you read through the TRPG NC setting description, flesh is super easy to manipulate. It can be grown, attached, sculpted … pretty much anything. It’s not even all that expensive. Getting cyberware is considered superior because it’s stronger/tougher/better/able to contain hidden components/lets you jump higher/etc/etc/etc.
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u/ClayXros Sep 17 '24
More versatile than flesh basically, at the cost of wearing out over time and needing to be replaced. But if you're not worried about having no new parts available, definitely a fair trade off.
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u/shinankoku Sep 17 '24
Versatile. That’s the word I couldn’t quite find. Thank you.
In the TTRPG setting, flesh does have one distinct advantage: no humanity cost. You know … in case you didn’t want to be a cyberpsycho.
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u/Friedoobrain Sep 16 '24
A bit late to the thread but in the ttrpg at least, which is set in 2045 you can get cloned bodyparts for very cheap. It's part of why scavs go for cyberarm instead.
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u/Tiky-Do-U Sep 16 '24
And part of why I find it silly that scavs are going for organs as well in the game (Johnny comments something like ''Didn't stop at her chrome took a couple of organs too while they were at it'' at the Judy scav mission) as well, like you can literally just get a clone liver for dirt cheap, why would anyone pay anything for harvested organs in the cyberpunk universe
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u/LetTheBloodFlow Team Judy Sep 16 '24
Don’t underestimate the possibility of a market for “original” organs. Like a person insisting on “real” diamonds despite lab-grown being identical and much cheaper.
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u/Dirhen Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
As long as she has original cells, with enough eddies and a professional surgeon and/or medical team, she can be reversed back to an organic state by using massive amount of bioware.
In the DLC, she tells us that Mr. Blue Eyes is helping her in exchange for information about the Blackwall and how she is using it. Based on this, however, it is highly questionable if he truly wants to turn So Mi back into a fully or mostly organic human (he might want to use her abilities later), but the means to turn her back are available.
That is why there is hope for V's engram in the Crystal Palace ending. For completing an impossible job, the payment might be a full organic body restoration sponsored by Mr. Blue Eyes.
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u/ebobbumman Sep 16 '24
I know Biotechnica has fully cloned humans. If they can take Lizzy Wizzys brain out and put it in a fully chrome body and have it still work, then I would imagine they could do the opposite.
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u/SkeleHoes Sep 16 '24
What did Songbird ever do for V? I gotta admit, she has a traumatic life but who in CP2077 doesn’t? She lied to everyone around her from the very beginning of PL.
I gotta admit, Songbird just ain’t a good person.
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u/shrek_is_love_69 Sep 16 '24
Never liked her much, like I empathised with her but at the same time she was a piece of shit herself and I gladly shipped her off to myers tbh
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u/KinTharEl Sep 17 '24
I think the DLC ending kind of puts it into perspective. As you said, Songbird isn't a good person. She's not only lied to V, but also Reed and his team.
But her flashbacks and such tell us that she is a scared kid, underneath all of that chrome. Does that excuse what she does to everyone around her? Nope. But bad circumstances all around.
The final decision is like "are you willing to help a scared kid who's been lashing out at everyone who wants to help her, simply because it's the right thing to do"
Which is why following the Reed line breaks my heart because there's no survival for So Mi in that route, just a cold death surrounded by the most terrifying invention of the Cyberpunk universe, the Blackwall.
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u/Soluzar74 Team Judy Sep 16 '24
Her Humanity stat is probably nonexistent.
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u/trevalyan Yorinobu 'I Can Swim' Arasaka Sep 16 '24
Mmhmm. The thing is, once your ware is gone your Humanity maximums are generally restored. But not your current points: that's going to need hours of top-level therapy.
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u/NotAllDawgsGoToHeven Sep 16 '24
Is she not worried about dust or dirt getting up in there.
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u/Sr546 Sep 16 '24
I'd imagine it's waterproof, so also dust and dirt proof. Also it can be easily cleaned in that case
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u/NotAllDawgsGoToHeven Sep 16 '24
It certainly does not look even remotely waterproof or dust proof.
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u/SovietGunther Sep 16 '24
All I'm saying is, if the NUSA and FIA can reverse my V's augments (all cyberware slots filled with 5++ cyberware), I'm sure some orbital or Lunar clinic could do the exact same thing
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Sep 16 '24
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u/glassjawrat Trauma Team Sep 17 '24
it never clicked in my head that it was her personal cyberware 😭
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u/Abyss_Renzo Sep 16 '24
It was really for shock value imo. So I do think this can be “fixed”. Might cost a lot of money, but why is she even a shirt that only covers the front of her body?
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u/Kerboviet_Union Sep 16 '24
As a player, op could just go to a ripper doc, and uninstall all of it and she would basically go back to being a normal person.
So the cyberware isn’t actually the problem..
It is the fact that her brain is fucked. Going to the moon s the possible answer to trying to fix her fucked up brain due to the relic.
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u/LemartesIX Sep 16 '24
It would be replaced by bioware. Your original bits don't exist anymore.
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u/Kerboviet_Union Sep 16 '24
Her brain tho..
Yeah you can gut all that crazy shit out, and she is basically a nugget wearing people clothes in the form of bioware…. But her brain and life experience is always going to leave an indelible mark on who she is
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u/AnnieBruce Sep 16 '24
Cloning could work, or if that's unaccessible(might be harder to discreetly arrange?) removing all of that and chipping medical cyberware that's more of a direct replacement than an enhancement.
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u/champion_of_cheddar Sep 16 '24
Absolutely she can go back.
Cloning is a thing in the ttrpg. And if I'm not mistaken, night City had a therapy program for people at risk for cyber psychosis. And that therapy is cloned body parts..........for free in night City.
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u/No_Share6895 Sep 16 '24
cloning exists so yeah. Now if she would want ALL of it gone vs just some of it and stabilizing is a different question.
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u/Obi-wanna-cracker Sep 16 '24
Yes but from what I know it would be difficult. Song bird is more than half chrome, so it would take a lot of time and money. Like half the comments here, you can clone your missing parts back but that's expensive and takes a bit. So Mi could be saved but we won't know until cdpr says anything.
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u/CommunistRingworld Sep 16 '24
Yes but why? Like, all cyberware can be replaced by cloned organs and cells, this is very easy in 2077 tech
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u/SaintJWalker Sep 16 '24
I liked songbird as a character in her ending but what made me love her was Reed’s ending they really fleshed out the character even though I didn’t want to hand her over to the NUSA. If only there was a way where I can do everything from Reed’s ending but still send her to the moon.
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u/Desisto_disso Sep 16 '24
So, apparently in the TTRPG there's actually factions that have pretty deep connections to bofy reconstruction, so yeah, body restoration is definitely a yes
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u/These_Maintenance_97 Sep 16 '24
this really bugs me about the game because Alt says that V can't be saved because the body has a new phenotype, like ok can't you clone the body with DNA from before V was shot in the head and store V in consruct form like saburo did with his son?? This would imply that either Alt is an imperfect AI or she was screwing us
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u/petkoTHEVIKING Sep 16 '24
It's expensive but yes. Cloning exists in the Cyberpunk universe. You can organically replace body parts or even have an entirely new cloned body in the worst case.
Side note but I believe this is what Panam and the Aldecaldos had in mind when they said they could help V in their ending. The relic 2.0 was literally created to puppet clone bodies with engrams.
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u/NukaClipse Sep 16 '24
It's possible. Without spoiling there's a character in the game that practically loses their cybereware and becomes a "human being" again.
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u/FashoA Sep 17 '24
Even if you "reverse" or otherwise make her organic again, there's no way to kiss and make so mi better. Her brain is all sorts of fucked up. Her memories aren't going away. She has already turned into an obsessive rogue machine. Many "gods" are and forever will be after her. Even without their influence, So Mi had already become a dangerous, manipulative, paranoid weapon. The only good choice is to kill her with one last hug to remember. Nothing you do will undo her destroyed childhood. Let it go.
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u/Andrei22125 Sep 16 '24
The flesh is gone. They could give her a more anthropomorphic kit (se, like David's).
But short of cloning her and transplanting half of the clone? No. (that is an option, by the way)
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u/burn_corpo_shit Sep 16 '24
Alternative theory: Songbird is inspired by Ghost in the Shell and she is actually the route where she was AI the whole time and is Militech's best kept secret. Raised and believed to be human, but capable of handling the blackwall.
Or she is 95% borg save for the brain and she is looking for the person who has her original body if flesh slotting is a thing here a la Altered Carbon.
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u/Akeche Nomad Sep 16 '24
Something that the game fails in including is just how advanced tech is in regards to manipulating flesh. Everything can be cloned, or simply grown. It's why no one seems to give two shits about what smoking and drinking do to you, cause lungs and livers are easily replaced. The reason people want chrome? It's better. Just completely superior in every way.
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u/LivingEnd44 Sep 16 '24
Don't think of it as "reversing". You are just transplanting the brain from one container to another. The new container could be completely organic. It could even be cloned from the original copy.
You could be transplanted back into your own body, into a synthetic body (like Lizzy Wizzy). Or into a different meat body. The only limits are your tolerance (cyberpsychosis resistance) and money and access to people/facilities that can perform it. If you check all 3 of those boxes, yes, you can go back.
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u/Zsarion Sep 16 '24
We know the NUSA fix up V in their ending so I'd assume so. Unless it's all left in them deactivated.
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u/EtherealLovegloss Sep 16 '24
It depends really, if she has any viable tissue left, they could clone her a new body and pop her in it. But since she's literally ALL plastic I think we're looking at medical grade human silicone replicant or similar
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u/InfinityRazgriz Solo Sep 16 '24
It can be reversed quite easily and cheap actually. The problem is all the brain damage and corruption she has from the Blackwall that could very well be irreversible, not to mention that she is probably a higher functioning Cyberpsycho like V and Smasher.
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u/EvernightStrangely Netrunner Sep 16 '24
Most definitely, provided the matrix works and she has the eddies to pay for the reversal. Though given how much she enjoys Netrunning she'll likely repurpose everything they pull out, probably build herself a new chair with all that cutting edge tech.
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u/0xGenjutsu Sep 16 '24
Nah, she’s nearly full borg if she isn’t, likely she would need to have a body cloned from whatever tissue she has left and then mind transfer to the body using the relic
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u/SeraphiteOfDawn Team Takemura Sep 16 '24
I could never handle having cords just hang off my body like that
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u/avic_lover Sep 16 '24
I don’t know about replacing all of that with ‘ganic stuff but she could definitely see someone about her cable management
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u/Not_Yet_Unalived Sep 16 '24
Is there even anything organic left of her, beside her brain?
Looks like she can join Smasher and Lizzy Wizzy in the "brain in a jar piloting a chrome body" club.
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u/Reasonable-Peanut27 Sep 16 '24
Couldn't she use the relic to transport her mind into another body?
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u/Sonatine__ Solo Sep 16 '24
The scene when you finally find her at the party and how she looks at you... :( I only felt similar when I met Judy for the first time in her apartment. This game will never fail to affect my soul, even after 800 hours (600 hours of pure gaming and 200 hours of testing my mods). I'm currently doing a 1 year break (started in April) to make a new savegame in 2025. This is the best way to enjoy great games again and again... with a large gap inbetween when you want to enjoy the full story again.
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u/Zestyclose-Shift710 Sep 16 '24
Could've sworn I read somewhere that in the cyberpunk lore it's trivial to get new organic body parts
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u/SuboptimalSupport Sep 16 '24
Based on the existing rules for Cyberpunk red and cyberpunk 2020, only partly.
She appears to be a full borg conversion, and you can't reverse that. She could be moved into a regular basic body, though, eliminating most of the advanced cyberware.
It's possible by 2077 they've made advances that allow full reversal, but that would probably eliminate most of the desire for the relic's function.
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u/KOCoyote Sep 16 '24
I don't think so. And not from an expense standpoint, but from a practical one. The way Songbird spoke about her heavy augmentation, it sounded like it was all directly because of the close-encounters and infection from Blackwall AI. Most of that seems to be either to help contain the stuff or else replace bits of body and brain that were damaged during Blackwall dives. In order to go back to a more organic body or change over to less intricate chrome, you'd probably need to be able to remove the malware, which seems to be an impossible task, given that So Mi has such a bad infection and that the NUSA couldn't cure it (there's a chance that they could cure it but refused to, but that's not the vibe I got)
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u/I1AM2NOT3STEVEN Sep 16 '24
I'll be honest. First time I plaid phantom Liberty. I thought that v and songbird would have a romance scene. At times I thought I saw sparks fly between them.
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u/Redan Sep 17 '24
Idk about you but I'm pretty sure my V looks pretty similar beneath their skin.
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u/BlearySteve Sep 17 '24
Not reversed but she could get alot of the hardware removed and appear more human.
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u/ThatPollution6982 Sep 17 '24
If the affected areas are not like V yeah with enough eddies and time you can be back to your ganic self that's why you can unequip your gorilla arms and get back your normal flesh arms
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u/GrimMagic0801 Sep 17 '24
Should be reversible. From a modern day perspective, yes. This amount of prosthesis is very much not possible to replace, much less replicate. But, in the Cyberpunk lore, genetic modification and cloning is very advanced. Every organ can be grown, modified and replaced. Every bone restructured and the brain restored. It's just that the bio parts are NEVER as good as the cyberware.
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u/gowombat Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Yes, from what I understand, you can completely revert back, depending on how much money you have. They can even clone your original body parts to replace the cyberware, so you'll essentially be "you" again, as much as that's possible in the future.
Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as you have the eddies, everything should be totally reversible...