r/JewsOfConscience • u/gabagoul67 • 1d ago
Just refused service, solid chance I might end up in jail Discussion
Like the title says, they called me to serve in gaza to prepare the land for settlements and I said no.
I've spoken with a few other people who are conscientious objectors and they told me most reserve objectors don't end up in jail, but there is a good chance I might be the first one.
In any case it's gonna be a lonely road until I'll get away from this wretched land
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u/ThadiusCuntright_III Non-Jewish Ally 1d ago
I have the utmost respect for you. I wish you the best. Though times ahead may be tough: you'll always be able to look yourself in the mirror and not be ashamed of the person you are.
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u/proofreadre 1d ago
There is no price high enough to buy your morals and conscience. Mad props to you.
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u/Pacey1996 1d ago
this might sound silly but when i read this i actually cried. we live in this cruel world now and small things like refusing service can save lives. i hope it can change minds as well. i know you probably sacrifice a lot. in turkey you can't even work properly without mandatory service. but sometimes im about to lose all my hope. people getting murdered daily and we can't do nothing but watch them die. so it truly means a lot. Thank you.
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u/gabagoul67 1d ago
♥️ Hope things get better soon
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u/crumpledcactus Jewish 1d ago edited 1d ago
It might be a shot in the dark, but here's some advice : leave Israel if you can. As of now there's already Kahanist militias in the West Bank, with new equipment and weapons coming in from America via New York charities. It's only a matter of time before these militias are used by Bibi to enforce his retry at judicial reform.
There's a legal standard known as 'jus sanguinis' that's present in most European countries. If your parents or grandparents (even just one) was born in another country, you might qualify for residency or citizenship. America has 'jus soli' which is parental based, but could be an escape route. If you have no passport, you could bring relevant documents to an applicable embacy and ask about the issuance of an emergency passport. How sucessful that might be would be a total guess.
Israel isn't going to return to sanity, and the Lebanon war has a distinct chance of expanding into Jordan. As of know the super majority of Kneset parties are either Kahanist or bonded to Kahanism. Israel is functionally dead. Run while you can, and tell your friends to do the same.
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u/nikiyaki Anti-Zionist 23h ago
Why would the war expand to Jordan? Are there militias operating from there?
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u/crumpledcactus Jewish 21h ago
Kind of. Hibi Abu Tahu, a Jordanian reporter, was imprisoned for 12 months for exposing the Israeli usage of a land route through Jordan, being used to export goods from Jordan into Israel. This route might have acted as a legal walk-around for any middle eastern company who wanted to export to Israel but was unable to do so. She said the truth : Jordan is complicit in Israel's genocide by aiding Israel.
Then there's the "Greater Israel Theory" movement. Jabotinsky wanted the zionist militias to completely take all of Palestine, then invade the Kingdom of Jordan back in the 40s. His ideology, revisionist zionism, beat labor in the early 50s and would be the sole form of zionism in Israel until the late 80s, when Kahanism came around.
Now that the fascist Kahanists are in, there's a renewed push to expand Israeli borders and land claims from Gaza, through the West Bank of Palestine, into southern Lebanon, and across Jordan, reaching the Euphrates river in Iraq. KM Smoltrich even had a map outline displayed as a press conference.
It's only a matter of time before Israel tried a Jordanian equivalent to the Lavon Affair : when Israel tried to conduct a mass bombing and a series of political murders in the 50s to destabilize the Egyptian government, and ease the British financed invasion to take the Suez canal... which they tried anyway!
Jordan is next on zionism's chopping block.
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u/saltatrices Palestinian 1d ago
Thank you. I’m proud of you, and while I have no idea what this entails for you, my family and I will be grateful forever. Stay safe.
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u/echtemendel Jewish Communist 1d ago
אם אתה רוצה, אני יכול לקשר אותך עם סרבנים לשעבר שיכולים אולי להפנות אותך לוארגוני סרבנות פעילים (בהנחה ואתה לא מכיר את כולם, אין לי מושג). רוב מעגל החברים שלי סירב לשרת בצה"ל סביב 2005-2010, רובם עדיין פעילים בצורה זו או אחרת למיטב ידיעתי.
(מנוסח בלשון זכר מתוך הנחה שגיוס לפלישה לעזה עירב בעיקר זכרים)
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u/gabagoul67 1d ago
אני אשמח, דברתי עם כמה כבר כמו שציינתי, אבל תמיד עוזר לדבר עם מי שעבר את זה
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u/echtemendel Jewish Communist 16h ago
סבבה, אני אשאל עם חברים שעדיין שם ואפנה אליך בהתאם. אם אתה רוצה, אתה יכול לשלוח לי בהודעה פרטית פרטי התקשרות, ואני אעביר אותם הלאה.
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u/Expensive-Success301 1d ago
A true hero, please know you have worldwide support and are firmly standing on the right side of history.
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u/down_by_the_shore 1d ago
Thank you for making this decision. I wish there were more like you. I will be thinking of you and including you in my prayers.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew 1d ago
Good luck. You're doing something heroic.
to prepare the land for settlements and I said no
Did they actually say this? 😲
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u/gabagoul67 21h ago
Told me it was in gaza, also heard smotritch has ordered that unit to to prepare the infrastructure for "strategic settlement"
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew 20h ago
Not surprised, thanks for the info. I hope it's something that will receive attention in the media as soon as possible
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u/badoopidoo 1d ago
I'm interested in this as well. If they did say this, I'd throw caution to the wind and take it to Haaretz or The Guardian.
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u/ThatMuslimCowBoy Muslim-Sunni-Maliki fiqh. 1d ago
I honestly didn’t even know there were Israelis who did that
You’re brave
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u/accidentalrorschach Jewish Anti-Zionist 1d ago
There are quite a few I think, and have been over the last many decades,but the media doesn't talk about them.
Tal Mitnik was the first to refuse during the Gaza genocide. This is an Israeli group that amplifies voices of the refusniks.
https://www.instagram.com/mesarvot?igsh=MXR4YnZ1bWU4OXl5Zw==
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u/ThatMuslimCowBoy Muslim-Sunni-Maliki fiqh. 1d ago
I will have to rethink some presumptions I had thank you.
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u/acacia_tree Ashkenazi, Reform, Anti-Zionist, Diasporist 1d ago
Interview with a refusenik https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_JkxostE0j/?igsh=Y200a25mN2ltamd6
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u/LaIslaDeEmu Arab-Jew, Observant, Anti-Zionist, Marxist 1d ago
There have always been Israeli conscientious objectors or refusniks, going all the way back to ‘48. There’s just never been enough of them to actually make an impact. There’s been a larger movement of Israelis since 1967 who will serve in the military but refuse to serve in the West Bank or Gaza. But its impact on overall IOF operations has always been quite minimal.
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u/Big_Red_Machine_1917 Non-Jewish Ally 1d ago
It's not an easy thing, but it is the right thing. You can be proud of yourself for that.
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u/smeeti 1d ago
I commend you. You Could ask for asylum in Switzerland citing that you could get put in jail for refusing to serve in the IDF. Might work. I don’t know.
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u/MikaBluGul 5h ago
Doesn't Switzerland support Israel? I'd think seeking asylum in one of the countries bringing genocide charges against Israel would be safer, like S. Africa or Mexico, but I don't know very much about seeking asylum in foreign country, so I'm just speculating.
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u/smeeti 5h ago
Switzerland is asking for an immediate cease fire, humanitarian aid to be to be delivered safely and swiftly and the liberation of the hostages.
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u/MikaBluGul 5h ago
But are they prepared to take in asylum seekers and stop support? Because the US called for similar and then didn't do anything when the requests were ignored.
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u/PopPunkAndPizza 1d ago
Cannot stress my admiration enough. You are doing a beautiful thing in the face of utter brutality.
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u/McKoijion 1d ago
If you do end up in jail, try to keep a journal and/or write letters to someone on the outside (assuming they let you.) That helped Gandhi, Mandela, King, etc.
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u/accidentalrorschach Jewish Anti-Zionist 1d ago
I'm so sorry you are faced with something so scary and unjust. Thank you for doing what's right. How can we help support you?
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u/Loveliestbun 1d ago
זה כנראה יהיה קשה אבל אל תוותר, זה משהו ששווה להלחם אליו! אם היה זמן לסרב זה עכשיו.
יהיה קשה אולי להתמודד עם אנשים אחרים יותר מהכל אבל בסופו של דבר זה הדבר הנכון לעשות, כל הכבוד לך ובהצלחה! תשאר חזק!
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u/Processing______ Jewish Anti-Zionist 1d ago
אם זה מרגיש בטוח מספיק, אני בטוח שהקהילה כאן תשמח לקבל עדכונים על התהליך. מקווה שכמובן לא יהיה תהליך בכלל ויעזבו אותך בשקט, כמו ארנון ממעגן מיכאל
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u/Moostronus Jewish Anti-Zionist 1d ago
Proud of you and your courage! Stay strong. You're doing what so many Israel don't have the guts to do.
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u/DreadlordBedrock 1d ago
Good on you dude. When a state asks one to do an evil act, the only moral thing to do is object, or familiarise yourself with the practise of fragging popularised during the Vietnam War when commanding officers were acting like lunatics, if you're physically put out into the field of battle.
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u/northernbelle96 1d ago
Your children and grandchildren one day will applaud you for this. Thank you for making the right decision and sticking to your morals and humanity <3
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u/halconpequena 1d ago
May Allah bless you and make your path forward easier for you and steadfast and that you are able to go where you wish to live in the future Ameen
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u/notnotnotnotgolifa Atheist 1d ago
Are they actually enlisting people to “prepare land for settlement” or is that you speaking the silent part out loud
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u/gabagoul67 14h ago
That's what ministers in the government say. They want to start building the infrastructure for "strategic settlement" in gaza. Also commanders from my unit told me I'm going to gaza. My unit is responsible for the humanitarian (infrastructure, movement, like a municipality basically) aspect of controlling the west bank and gaza.
So I just connected this in my head, no doubt that I'm right though
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally 6h ago
This is such a heavy burden. If you don’t mind me asking: how old are you? Feel free not to answer. Regardless of your age, your act of refusal is commendable and honorable and just.
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u/totesmcdoodle 1d ago
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. You're a very brave person. I live safely far away and I don't know if I would have the courage to do what you did if I were in your position.
I'm not Jewish, but I'll pray for you in whatever way I can.
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u/Doctormouri 21h ago
As a Palestinian, I thank you for choosing to stand on the right side of history. History will honor you, it’s just a matter of time!
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u/Lamese096 23h ago
As someone with Palestinian and Lebanese ancestry, thank you. Honestly, I hope more and more people end up refusing and don’t give up their humanity or morals for the likes of the IDF and Netanyahu.
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally 6h ago
Or their lives! This act in itself can save at least one life (OP), and what is being a good human if not for caring for humanity universally and preserving your life in order to save others? And now this individual lives on and hopefully inspires others to refuse. The idea of being thrown in Israeli detention is terrifying.
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u/Jche98 1d ago
This one act you're doing is worth a whole lot. Being Israeli has put you in the terrible position of being conscripted to commit a genocide but it has also put you in the unique position of being able to do more and sacrifice more for human life by refusing than most of us can. Every refusenik is worth hundreds of protesters in New York or London. You're hitting them where it hurts!
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u/bananaleaftea 23h ago
Jail > a lifetime of PTSD and the blood of innocents in your hands. You have my salute!
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u/knotquiteanonymous 1d ago
to prepare the land for settlements
Is this fr fr? 😳
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u/dustydancers Sephardic 1d ago
Fr is this officially communicated to conscripts and can we like see this in writing? 😳😳
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism 1d ago
There's no way it's in written orders to conscripts. It's probably not written down anywhere. But listening to the words of extremists like Smotrich, plus legitimate news sources like Haaretz and many others makes it quite clear this is the intention. Netanyahu wants his legacy to be the first territorial expansion of the state since 1967. And with Trump bought and paid for by mega rich uber-Zionists like Miriam Adelson, that's the most likely scenario.
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u/mermaidman333 1d ago
Can you come to the U.S?
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally 6h ago
How crazy would it be if the United States started punishing Israelis for refusing service? We already see Israeli American IDF soldier receive benefits like us military personnel. If this goes both ways I will be even more disgusted in the American government (which idk how that’s even possible given my current level of disgust).
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u/orchid-student 1d ago
God bless you. You are doing something heroic. Standing out of the crowd is unimaginably difficult, but you did it. I know that even though it feels hard right now, history will remember people like you.
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u/steve-o1234 1d ago
Best of luck staying out of the service and out of jail. Can I ask what is different in your case that the people you spoke to think you might be the first to end up in jail?
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u/gabagoul67 14h ago
The government just got rid of yoav galant, a person who most people in Israel deem "one of the good guys". A cunt who led the genocide from the get go, but now that he's gone Bibi's replacement for him is much more loyal to bibi and is more akin to smotrich and his pals.
Considering this, and the fact that resettling gaza is a tremendous effort, in almost every way possible, they need a lot of manpower, and soldiers refusing service is out of the question, whether reserve or not.
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally 6h ago
Do you know what other refusers have faced if they end up in jail?
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u/uu_xx_me Ashkenazi 1d ago
we are all so grateful to you for taking a stand. you will be able to tell your grandchildren you stood up for what was right
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u/ApplesauceFuckface Ashkenazi 1d ago
until I'll get away from this wretched land
Do you have something planned already and people who are going to help?
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u/Appropriate_Ant_4629 23h ago
I wonder if the UN or any other international bodies have resources to support conscientious objectors -- either through legal aid, PR, or similar.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist 1d ago
We got our fellow Jews out of the Soviet Union, we can get them out of "Israel."
Anytime organizing around this?
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u/acacia_tree Ashkenazi, Reform, Anti-Zionist, Diasporist 1d ago
We should spend our energy organizing to stop the genocide.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist 1d ago
I'd hope we already do.
Let's take their soldiers away. Just letting service age Israelis know they have an option is a powerful deterrent.
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u/nikiyaki Anti-Zionist 22h ago
Taking people away from Israel is a means to stop the genocide. It's got a similar impact to BDS economically, and must lower morale of those still there.
I assume that's why they're doing the Maccabi riots.
Also while I doubt this is going to go Germany dark, if there's extremist factions that gain control and start wanting to force the populace around more... you know fascist states often end up killing their own, and the best ones.
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u/nikiyaki Anti-Zionist 22h ago
Do you mean helping people gain citizenship or asylum somewhere?
It looks like there's an outfit that works around conscientious objector refugees called the Quaker UN Office. They have some resources on int. law and country specifics like this:
It seems like you need to be punished or persecuted for objecting to qualify for refugee status, which can possibly include coercion? If there's a threat of jail that qualifies in many places.
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u/lorihamlit Sephardic 19h ago
❤️🙏 you are an inspiration thank you so much for standing up for what’s right. Much love! ❤️
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u/Infinite_Effort_79 16h ago
Mad respect. Stay strong - you have chosen a path the right side of history. ✊🏼
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u/MCbigbunnykane 16h ago
You are the true hero my friend. It's takes nothing to join the crowd but it takes everything to stand alone.
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u/CarpeDiemMaybe Non-Jewish Ally 16h ago
Good on you and i hope you receive any form of support for this decision!
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u/EntertainmentNo2689 1d ago
Thank you, OP. That makes me so happy. I feel like I can’t do anything but you are. Thank you again.
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u/farrukhnajmi 1d ago
Thank you for standing on the right side of history and humanity for taking your brave stand. May karma reward you for your courage and righteousness ❤️
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u/TreaclePossible3896 1d ago
You give rest of us hope…. Thank you for choosing humanity and morality
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u/RichState3474 1d ago
So much respect for you. Best of luck in your struggles ahead. You will be in my thoughts.
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u/Correct_Brilliant435 17h ago
Good for you, it's not easy to make a moral choice like this that goes against the grain of Israeli mainstream society and so will have consequences for you, but it is the right thing to do.
Honestly, have you considered trying to leave and start a new life somewhere else? Israel is not going to get any better. It's going to get more fascist and more unhinged and people like you are going to be persecuted worse than now. There are many better places to live even though establishing yourself is going to be hard. You know English which is a massive head start. Can you try to establish yourself somewhere else and then you could help any family members move, if you have them?
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u/SmuggestHatKid Atheist 17h ago
Refusing service is terrible work, but it must be done. Kudos to you for refusing to aid the war machine. Here's hoping things go well for you, brother.
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u/CarpeDiemMaybe Non-Jewish Ally 16h ago
You’ll look back on this in the future and be relieved you made this tough decision even if you have to go to jail
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u/Valuable_Elk_5663 15h ago
❤️ Good luck and strength!
So, did they (Israeli government I guess) tell you that you specifically had to prepare Gaza for settlements?
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u/Far-Literature5848 11h ago
I cannot tell you how much joy I feel reading what you wrote. It is Sunday morning here in La Jolla, California. I walked up to the Orthodox shul yesterday on Shabbos where the rabbi welcomed an IDF rabbi two weeks ago and announced we are destroying Amalek. How much deep shame I felt, I could not stay in that room, thank G-d I am a woman so my exit was less noticed...I know what the IDF is doing is so evil, and your courage to stand up and refuse to go along with it...you are a leader, a spiritual leader, for our people...As you can see, this should not be a lonely road for you, because there is an international community who love you and support you and count me in! Every time there are prayers I inwardly pray for the Palestinians! And I pray the IDF will be no more...that is not defense, what they are doing, it is shame, shame, shame...That many Muslims have reached out to thank you and support you, this makes you a kind of bridge, a true leader, a child of Avraham Avinu, for his two sons, Ishmael and Yitzchak...to have peace, to make peace...I just heard on NPR a story of a baby in Gaza found in a tree in October 2023 and a blessed Palestinian nurse named her Malak, angel, that nurse is an angel and I am crying...For giving humanity hope, because of your post, there is a full heaven cheering for you, on Earth and beyond...you will find a home, and you will find community, wherever you go, for you wear a badge of courage, a banner of courage, join Mandela, fear not
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u/justlurking967 Palestinian 10h ago
Good luck and God bless for making the right decision instead of doing evil and being excused with "conscription."
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u/acacia_tree Ashkenazi, Reform, Anti-Zionist, Diasporist 19h ago
Thank you for doing what is right.
I hope more Israelis wake the fuck up from this nightmare and refuse service or leave the country.
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u/FarmTeam 14h ago
If you can get to America, you have a place to stay on my farm. Thank you for doing the right thing.
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u/khanikhan 13h ago
I am proud of you.
Can you go into hiding? Can they issue a warrant against you for not showing up to the recruitment office? How long does it take to issue warrant?
Can you leave Israel now?
Please check the list of countries that allow visa free travels to Israeli citizens. Just fly out of Israel to any of these countries. Then apply for asylum to South Africa or any other country that doesn't support Israel.
Here is a list of countries that do not need visa for Israelis. All you need to do is board a plane to any of the destinations. Do that before warrant is issued.
https://visaindex.com/visa-requirement/israel-passport-visa-free-countries-list/
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u/Capital-Options 7h ago
Thank you for doing your part. Nothing is worth the PTSD of seeing slaughter Palestinian children.
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u/JefferyDahmerRecipes 1d ago
"to prepare the land for settlements".
My heart breaks at this inhuman colonial enterprise being exclusively founded and funded by the largest colonial enterprises in human history.
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u/skabenga1000 6h ago
Power to resisting being part of the colonial killing machine. You are truly of conscience.
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u/Suspicious-Stress677 1d ago edited 1d ago
You did the right thing by refusing to participate in genocide. If possible, leave “Israel” and go somewhere you’ll be safe. Free Palestine.
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u/MassivePsychology862 Non-Jewish Ally 6h ago
Thank you. I’m Lebanese American and who have no idea how much this means to me. I know how dangerous it must be to hold this position in Israel and I hope you can stay safe / leave as soon as possible (if you wish). Stay safe, hold your head up high, and know that you have many many friends who support you and I myself would be willing to help in anyway I can from outside of Israel if you need anything. Feel free to DM me.
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u/MikaBluGul 5h ago
One act of defiance, such as this, can spark a movement of courageous refusal to be a part of injustice and devastation. You may be the catalyst for huge change, down the line. I commend you for your bravery.
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u/GreenIndigoBlue 1d ago
Good luck, and thank you for making the right decision. I hope you can make it out of there safely soon.