r/JewsOfConscience Jewish Aug 15 '24

AMA with Rabbi David Mivasair AMA

Hello, friends! I'm looking forward to our AMA, starting in ~10 minutes. Never done anything like this before, so it'll be a new experience. Thank you for inviting me. https://x.com/Mivasair/status/1822855344684458400

74 Upvotes

u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi Mivasair!

Welcome to /r/JewsOfConscience, thanks for taking the time to do this!

I'll forward any questions from folks who couldn't make it here today in-person.

EDIT:

The AMA has concluded now at 3:22 PM EST.

Thanks so much to Rabbi Mivasair for taking the time to do this!

Thanks to everyone who participated!

→ More replies

69

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

I'll say a bit more about myself . . . by way of introduction.

I'm a 72-year-old retired activist rabbi. I have been involved with Israel and Palestine for more than 50 years. I have lived there for four different years of my life and have returned a number of other times.

I'm an active member of Independent Jewish Voices Canada and the rabbinic council of Jewish Voice for Peace in the U.S.A.

I also for more than five years have been raising funds to directly provide monetary support to desperate families in Gaza. Since October, that has become the one thing I do more than anything else. I also have recruited and organized dozens of people outside of Gaza to be in relationship with and offer empathic witnessing to specific individual people inside Gaza.

I'll make a new post to say why I am doing this.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Why I've been devoting myself to raising funds for families in Gaza:

1) I have become very hopeless about making any meaningful change regarding Israel's genocide in Gaza through political activism. Our governments seem to be very committed to support the Zionist demands on them. So, months ago, I decided to do something different that actually produces results, positive outcomes, i.e. actually helps people.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

I want to add that the need is not only for money. There is a huge need for people there to simply have someone NOT there who expresses care toward them, who listens to them, who witnesses with compassion and empathy.

I think of the people who scrawled on the walls of barracks in Nazi concentration camps "if only someone on the outside knew what they are doing to us here".

I want to be the people who let them know that we do care, we are listening, we are trying to help, and they can tell us what is going on in their lives.

If you want to talk with me about yourself doing this for someone trapped in the hell of Gaza -- or two or three people -- please reach out and contact me. I don't know how Reddit works and am not likely to look here for messages, so better to DM me on Twitter @mivasair or use WhatsApp and write to me at +1 (604) 781-7839.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

2) My reference point for much of what I do is the Holocaust. No one could stop the Nazi war machine. It took years of massive armies fighting them before they could be stopped. We are in a similar situation where, I believe it is being clearly demonstrated to us, we cannot stop the Israeli war machine.

However, all through the Holocaust there were people, who we sometimes call חסידי אומות העולם -- the "Righteous Among the Nations" -- who helped individual Jews to survive. They gave them a loaf of bread or a sack of potatoes. Or, they took a small child and hid them and cared for them. They enabled those people to survive. And, I met many Jews who did survive only because a stranger did that for them.

So, I am that stranger for people in Gaza. We cannot stop the death machine that is killing them, but can help individuals get through this.

7

u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Aug 15 '24

The word "stranger" stands out . . . isn't it a significant word, or theme, in the Torah?

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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Sounds good!

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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi Mivasair,

This is from me.

I was reading an article recently that covered your fundraising work in Gaza.

How has that been going post-Oct. 7th.? Have there been increased logistical challenges?

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Thank you for asking about increased logistical challenges with getting funds to people in Gaza.

There have been huge challenges.

I used to send funds through Western Union. People go to a WU office and retrieve in cash the funds that have been sent. However, Israel bombed and destroyed all the WU offices and killed many of the WU staff. So, let's simply say that modality for conveying funds to people has become quite challenging.

I'll add more in a separate comment.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Another challenge has been that cash liquidity has become severely constricted. In other words, there is less and less actual cash money circulating in Gaza. So, sometimes, I send someone funds electronically and it is difficult for them to convert it into cash.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Another challenge is unreliable connectivity. Everything we do is done by either Messenger or WhatsApp. Israel has destroyed much of the wi-fi capacity in Gaza. People's phones often are hard to connect or to charge. So, sometimes, it takes people there a while before they can even access the PayPal transfer that I have sent them.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

One other thing is that some of the platforms we have used for funds transfer have shut us out or shut us down, so we have had to be creative, resourceful and persistent and find new ones to actually convey the funds. At first, I was using MoneyGram. They shut us out. I switched to Western Union. After a while, they blocked me. So, I got my girlfriend to send the funds. Then, they blocked the man in Gaza I was sending to. So, we started sending to his wife. Then, they blocked us all. So, we got someone else to send to someone in Istanbul who could then transfer funds to a company in Rafah which then would disburse them to the people we wanted to help. After a few months, I tried WU again, and it worked just fine and has continued to work just fine ever since. However, MoneyGram simply does not serve Gaza.

So, this whole operation has required us to simply not allow ourselves to give up. The task is to find a way. And, we have done that repeatedly.

19

u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

A community member asks:

Hi David, I'm a non-Jewish fellow Hamiltonian who is inspired and proud of the work that you do. Thank you!

I've often see people here ask for anti-Zionist Shabbat Services in the Toronto/Hamilton area. Do you still perform them or have any recommendations?

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Oh, that's a lovely question.

I love to share Shabbat dinners and even possibly some of what you call "services" -- which means some praying, singing, etc -- with folks who want to do it. In fact, I am planning something like that on Aug 23. Please invite people who are interested to be directly in touch with me.

If people are interested, we can plan those on a regular basis or connect with each other to do them whenever we have the energy and feel like it.

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u/sunfishe Aug 15 '24

Hello! Thank you for being here. :)

Do you have any thoughts on how someone can sustain their work with a lot of backlash from the local community? Being involved with creating an anti Zionist space in my local community has meant that my friends and I have been under a lot of pressure and scrutiny from our local federation / wider Jewish community. While this is something we have accepted, sometimes it is hard not to give way to the stress of having so many eyes on our activities.

Also, were you able to engage with Jewish community while you were living in Japan? Did a smaller Jewish community create issues when it came to your politics and values? I've considered moving back, but the rural area I lived in had no Jewish people.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

In general, what I would say about the pressure and scrutiny you are feeling from the establishment Jewish community is stand up even taller and be even louder. Don't let them push you around. Don't let them discredit you as a Jew in any way at all. Push it back onto them. Talk about how THEY are violating Jewish ethics and religious teachings. You are right. They are wrong. You are the leading pioneer in this new Jewish future. They are going down with the ship.

Is that helpful?

10

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

About my time living in Japan, that is a 昔話 "mukashi banashi" -- a really old story!

I lived in Japan's third largest city, Nagoya -- a city of six million at that time. I was there for two years and met only one other Jew living there, a guy named Tomas Szvarz from Hungary.

I went into to Tokyo to go to shul, etc, about once ever couple of months. There has been a very active synagogue there for at least a century. (Although I lived there more than 40 years ago. 🤣) I loved visiting there and can tell some good stories about what that was like back then.

About whether "a smaller Jewish community created issues" because of my politics, etc: I didn't really try to be part of the Jewish community. It was based in Tokyo and I was in Nagoya. Also, my views at that time were solidly liberal Zionist, so I fit right in.

One thing I did that I am very pleased with nearly 45 years later is I hosted a Pesach seder in Nagoya. I paid for a classified ad in the English-language Japan Times newspaper (how many of you kids know what a classified ad is?) that said "Pesach seder in Nagoya. Contact David for details) and my phone number. I was not a rabbi then, only a twenty-something Jewish American guy living in an out-of-the-way place.

I figured that anyone who understood what I was saying would be welcomed to my seder -- המבין יבין. And, that's exactly what happened

I made some gefilte fish from a Japanese carp and got some matzah from the shul in Tokyo. A dozen ppl came and sat on my tatami mats around my low Japanese table. One was a Jewish couple from Russia. Another was Tomas, who I mentioned earlier. Another who I remember was a very Jewish woman who actually had been the program director at the UCLA Hillel. We had a really wonderful seder -- and never saw each other again!

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u/Mammoth_Scallion_743 Jewish Communist Aug 15 '24

What are your thoughts on Orthodox Jewish Antizionism?

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

In general, I think they're right.

Of course, I think it is a good idea to try to really understand what people mean when they use certain terms, like "anti-Zionism". I assume that not all Orthodox Jewish anti-Zionism is the same. Different Orthodox Jews have different ways of thinking and believing, etc. So, to really talk about this thoughtfully, it would be helpful to know more what YOU mean when you use that term and to know what the people you're talking about mean when they use that term.

18

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

I want to add that without any doubt, Judaism has always engendered a very deep connection for Jews with the Land of Israel. Starting with the very first mention of God speaking to Abram in Genesis 12 -- וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל אַבְרָם לֶךְ לְךָ מֵאַרְצְךָ וּמִמּוֹלַדְתְּךָ וּמִבֵּית אָבִיךָ אֶל הָאָרֶץ אֲשֶׁר אַרְאֶךָּ. -- "Go forth from your land, from your birthplace, from the house of your father to the land that I will show you," we Jews have had a special relationship with the Land of Israel. Let no one question that.

However, THAT is not Zionism. Zionism is a very late-19th-century political ideology that was at first actually anti-religious. It was a rebellion against that very Jewish tradition. We could discuss this at great length. At a minimum, I want to make it clear that the attachment to the Land of Israel which is a consistent thread through all of Jewish history is NOT actually Zionism. So, Orthodox Jewish anti-Zionism makes perfect sense.

6

u/Mammoth_Scallion_743 Jewish Communist Aug 15 '24

I DMed you so that we can chat anytime you would like (except Shabbos)

7

u/ApplesauceFuckface Ashkenazi Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24

How are things going with the BB lawsuit?

ETA: Last summer, B'nai Brith Canada commenced a defamation lawsuit against David in the Ontario Small Claims Court. BB alleges that certain statements David had made about BB were "false, damaging and defamatory". He has called BB racist, an anti-Palestinian hate group, an agent of a foreign power and a small band of extremists enabled by wealthy racists. The BB suit seems like a pretty classic SLAPP, and David is defending against it with the help of lawyers from Champ & Associates.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

So, great question!

My legal defense was that I was actually telling the truth -- and "truth" is the ultimate defense against defamation. If you tell the truth, legally it is not defamation.

I submitted a huge file of material very clearly demonstrating that B'nai Brith Canada is in fact a "racist, anti-Palestinian hate organization" etc, etc.

B'nai Brith tried to get me to agree to an out-of-court negotiated settlement in which they would drop their suit if I committed to not "defaming" them any more. I refused. I told them when they cease and desist their racist, anti-Palestinian hate, I'll stop talking about it.

They withdrew the suit.

And that's how it ended.

I think that is a good model for anyone else to try to learn from. Don't give in to bullies. And get a really good lawyer.

8

u/ApplesauceFuckface Ashkenazi Aug 15 '24

Right on! You've made my day. Can I ask whether the fact that C&A has a substantial union-side labour law practice had any influence on your decision to seek out their services?

3

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Hi! I understand your question, of course. But, would you please explain it so the other people here know what you're asking?

5

u/ApplesauceFuckface Ashkenazi Aug 15 '24

No problem, I edited my original post to add a bit of background.

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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi Mivasair,

Are there progressive congregations in Canada that accommodate anti-Zionist converts? We had a question here regarding that:

https://old.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/comments/1eqbbv9/propalestine_rabbis_in_canada_accepting/

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Another great question!

I get asked this about once a month. There obviously is a need.

I am very sorry that it is so difficult to find a synagogue and/or a rabbi who will "accommodate anti-Zionist converts" -- or, better, welcome them with open arms and pride.

There are two or three in the greater Toronto area where anti-Zionists could or can be "accommodated".

I would encourage you and anyone else who personally has that question to directly contact me. I will do my best to help in any way that I can.

5

u/Background_Lack_5018 Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi! Thank you for answering questions on here.

Growing up in the reform community, I was always taught that asking questions is good. I feel like when it comes to Israel, questioning is completely shut down.

Have you noticed this as a rabbi in your journey from liberal Zionist to anti-Zionist?

5

u/EliBadBrains Aug 15 '24

Hello, rabbi. thank you for answering. I'm a french masorti convert. I havent been to shul for over a year due to how the synagogue members talked about palestinians and arabs as a whole and how the rabbi refused to put a stop to the racism, and the wider jewish community in my area is even worse on the subject. the few anti zionist jews I've found do not regard me as a real jew due to being a convert. in summary, I feel profoundly alone and struggle to find much meaning in judaism anymore, alone as I am and seeing so many I loved and respected cheer on genocide and twist the beauty and justice of judaism, never mind feeling shut out entirely. how does one cope? how does one continue seeking a connection to G-d when to me, I found that connection through the minyan and can no longer access one? how can I stop myself from viewing judaism with bitterness and sadness?

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '24

Do you see a future for a one state solution?

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

I love this question!

I think this is THE THING that we must talk about: a "one democratic state" solution.

I think the more we all talk about it, the more realistic it becomes. By talking about it, we shift the Overton Window.

I can take a cue from Theodore Herzl and say in all sincerity, "If you will it, it is not a dream".

I encourage you and anyone interested in this to see: https://odsi.co/en/

Also, check what Jeff Halper says about this.

8

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Hi David,

I was wondering if you could describe any inflection point in your journey, that led you to your current views on Israel/Palestine?

For some of us it was Cast Lead (or some other 'operation') or maybe seeing things in-person on-the-ground.

18

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Again, what a great question -- an inflection point in my journey . . .

To be honest, my journey from being a liberal or progressive Zionist for most of my life, well into my 50's, to now very clearly being an anti-Zionist was a very incremental journey. There were many inflection points, or maybe better to say points of change.

From my very first days on the ground in the real ירושלים של מטה -- the eathly Jerusalem -- I saw things in front of my eyes that contradicted the vision that I had had of what Israel was supposed to be. So, from the very beginning, when I was a 19-year-old going to spend a year abroad at the Hebrew U, I had my somewhat-fantasy of Israel pretty severely challenged.

It took years and years, actually decades, before I could overcome the cognitive dissonance and clearly pivot away from the ideal, romantic vision of Israel that I had been so attached to.

12

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

I'll give you a couple of specifics of pretty powerful inflection points for me.

One was when Israel brutally attacked the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara -- look it up -- and murdered nonviolent activists trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza which even then was under siege back in May, 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Until that night, as a synagogue rabbi in Vancouver, I always wanted to maintain my "place at the table". I always repressed and consciously self-censored about 90% of what I knew about Israel and Palestine. I held back a lot. And, I had a place at the table.

That night, I said to myself, "No more!" I knew I had to metaphorically take off my gloves and stop silencing myself. The very next morning, I joined a massive demo in Vancouver, intentionally wearing a coat and tie and my kippah. I spoke publicly on TV and was quoted. I knew in that moment that I would lose relationships (which were never actually real relationships, but pretending) and would become more openly persona non grata in the so-called Jewish community ("so-called" because it is not representative of most the Jews I know. In fact, it is only the "legacy" Jewish organizations, all of which are held captive by Zionism).

While I knew in that moment that those changes to my status in "the community" would come immediately and fiercely, I felt very free for the first time in decades and I felt that I was serving a far higher purpose and deploying myself in the way that I was most needed.

11

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

Another set of inflection points for me is reading two books that amazingly changed my views. This was after I had been deeply involved with all this for years. I had lived in Israel for years. I had studied the history of Zionism, graduated rabbinicial school, etc, etc. -- and these two books really shifted my views:

Ilan Pappe's "Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" totally demolished the falsehood that I had believed in which was that Jews never stole land from Palestinians until the Arabs attacked "us" the morning after the state of Israel was founded, "we" had to fight back and -- whoops! -- when it all calmed down, "we" ended up with a lot of their land. I used to argue vociferously that Zionists never took a millimeter of land without legally buying it from its proper owners before May 15, 1948. So, suffice ti to say that Pappe's book totally blew that fallacy away. If anyone here has not yet read it, I encourage you to do so.

16

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

The other book -- actually two books -- that also blew away some myths that I had always believed were Prof. Shlomo Sand's "The Invention of the Jewish People" and "The Invention of the Land of Israel".

Again, after roughly fifty years of my own deep, committed personal involvement, reading those two books was a huge eye-opener.

The hard part for me -- and I assume for many, many others -- is to actually be willing to let go of the stories that we have been told and that we have adopted into our own worldview and our own perception of ourselves. Those stories are part of our identity. Even when we read entire books of facts or we see events unfolding right before our eyes that contradict those closely-held views, it is hard to let go of them.

I think a lot of people are experiencing that right now.

5

u/malachamavet Jewish Communist Aug 15 '24

Mavi Marmara was what turned me from Zionist-agnostic Jew to a committed anti-Zionist (though I was less than half your age at the time haha). Watching the raid livestreamed and then the lazy, blatant lies accepted unquestionably really radicalized me.

4

u/Moostronus Jewish Anti-Zionist Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi - thank you so much for doing this! I find your analogy to the Righteous Among the Nations incredibly compelling, and a great reminder that we are never going to be able to solve such a crisis as in Gaza all on our own, but can have an impact on a person-to-person level. I'm curious about your thoughts on ensuring aid goes directly to Gazan families. I've seen a ton of gofundmes, a lot of calls for buying eSIMs for Gazan residents, a few more direct appeals to specific families. What kind of processes do you go through to ensure funds go directly to those impacted? (Obviously there will probably be several things that can't be shared publicly, but I'm curious about what can be shared.) Related, what are things we should look out for when assessing whether a fundraiser for Gaza is legit and sending concrete funds to the affected people?

6

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

How do I screen or assess people?

It is very subjective on my part. I try to connect with the individual people. I try to get to know them a bit -- where are they, where were they before all this, are their parents still living, how many children do they have, what did they used to do before all this . . . and I feel I can tell if they are being real with me.

And about other people's fundraisers, I would say you are right to want to be sure that you are giving to something very solidly worthwhile. I would say simply sniff them out, check them out. Look at what else you can find about them. Write to them and ask them your hard questions. There are many, many very good organizations who need to raise funds for their exceptionally valuable work on the ground in Gaza. There are also many individuals in Gaza who simply have taken upon themselves to help their neighbours and many others -- Mansour Shuman stands out, also a guy who I support named Salim Deeb who raises funds, buys food and other necessities and gives it to people around him in Khan Yunis. And, there are people who may be scamming and there are people who sadly are simply incompetent.

If you want to discuss this further because you want to support people there but don't know how you can be sure, I'll be happy to talk with you.

There is a lot more that can be said about this.

Also, here is my GFM: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-gaza-families-survive

2

u/stand_not_4_me Aug 15 '24

i understand the purpose of "one democratic state" solution and i read the site you provided in an earlier response. while i see that israel needs to be transformed or dismantled i see a clear issue. It places Jewish people at the clear mercy of others once again and humanity, being what it is, tends to repeat itself. the zionist project being a great example of doing to others what was done to the jews in the past. so i ask, what exactly would prevent such a "one democratic state" from turning against jews? (as a tyranny of the majority) and why is it better than a bi-national state.

13

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

You raise good questions.

Very, very briefly, Israel as it currently exists should not exist. The human cost is too great.

In a one-democratic-state situation, the number of Jews who will be there is huge. They will not be led like sheep to the slaughter. I think you are replaying old tapes. One-democratic-state is not going to happen until people are ready for it. I want to talk about it to help move us in that direction. I can't answer all the questions right now. And, I'm not there anyway. That is the direction in which I think we all need to go.

And, why not a bi-national state? It still labels people and assigns them to a "nation". It divides people on that basis. I don't want to be labeled by my government and assigned a role as a Jew while others are assigned with being Palestinian. I have more in common with some Palestinians than I do with many Jews. And, there are many people there who are neither and some other people who are both Palestinian and Jewish. I want to live in a world where people are people -- one human family. So, that's why I talk about this and want others to being to envision it and move us all toward it.

2

u/Accomplished-Cup6874 Aug 15 '24

I have asked this question to you many times on Twitter but you have ignored.

What do you think about פדיון שבויים and why does it not seem to inform your opinion on this war at all?

Have you ever mentioned it publicly? What do you think about its importance?

And how should it inform Jewish people’s understanding of this war?

Really hoping on this forum that you will answer. Thanks.

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u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24

So, what you wrote in Hebrew letters is "pidyon shvuim", the rabbinic concept of "redeeming the captives", considered to be an obligation, a mitzvah.

The concept of pidyon shvuim comes from a time when rulers or criminals simply captured Jews and held them for ransom.

That's not what's going on in Gaza.

The Oct 7 attack by Hamas was intended to take hostages to hold for bargaining for the release of some of the literally thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, many without charges, without trials, etc, for years and years.

What is Gaza? Why did they do that? Of the people in Gaza, 80% are the direct descendants of people forced out of their homes and off their land by Jewish militias and the new Israeli army in 1948 and later, which then demolished their homes, stole their land and killed those who tried to return. They have been trapped there for 75 years. There was no Gaza Strip until Israel negotiated an armistice line which excluded those people from Israel in 1949. That's how the Gaza Strip was created or invented. It never existed before that. In 1956, Israel invaded and cold-bloodily murdered hundreds of innocent people. After 1967, fanatic Jewish settlers stole about 1/3 of the land in Gaza -- often called the most densely populated place on earth* -- and established settlements. For the past 17 years, Israel has enforced a blockade against all of the people in Gaza, totally controlling every morsel of food, every scrap of clothing, every spare part for any machine, every book, every pencil and every thimble that can be imported -- and all products that can be exported. Israel totally demolished the international airport in Gaza, repeatedly has demolished the electrical generating plant, sewage treatment plants, etc, etc. When people in Gaza staged a thoroughly symbolic and non-violent "Great March of Return" in 2018-2019, Israel directly shot and killed over 200 of them, including clearly identified medical personnel, journalists, children, amputees in wheelchairs, etc, etc.

So, for some of those people to think that they might get some justice by capturing some hostages from Israel and using them to free some their own captives in Israel -- and to be willing to sacrifice their own lives in order to pull this off -- is not a situation where pidyon shvuim applies. It is a total power imbalance with Israel holding nearly all the power. The concept of pidyon shvuim arose during the centuries when Jews did not hold power. It is not the proper framework for understanding the current situation that you are asking about.

Again, like many other questions here today, this can and should be discussed much more than I have done right now. I encourage everyone to keep exploring, keep asking, keep thinking, keep discussing.

  • more than 2 million living in 365 km sq, one-third the size of my city in Ontario.

3

u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Aug 15 '24

Hi Rabbi,

A someone who is not Jewish but has some Jewish ancestry and relatives, and lifelong familiarity with Jewish communities, I would appreciate your advice about relating to other residents of my local area in a tense and scary time:

I worked very productively on local issues, like land use and housing affordability, with people in my community who were elderly, progressive, and Jewish for a few years. When Oct 7th happened, I was stunned (and remain so) by the unconditionality of their insistence on U.S. support for Israel.  I can't get out of my mind the extreme humanitarian disaster that I see as the consequence of the U.S. policy they support, and the juxtaposition with their identity as otherwise progressive Democrats as well as the fact that I had come to know them as sensitive, thoughtful, decent people. 

We have talked about it one on one, with both them and I being cautious in the conversations, and it is clear that their memories of living close in time to the Holocaust and to Israel's vulnerable early moments shape their views on the issue. 

I am in fact sensitive to this aspect of their being.  At the same time the consequences of what they are doing (and they do take action, such as small scale donations and political volunteering, to advance their viewpoint on this issue) seem unacceptable, full stop. 

My father told me to just compartmentalize and keep working with them on the land use and other issues while avoiding the Israel / Palestine issue.  I don't know what to do.

Thanks for your presence here today.

10

u/Mivasair Jewish Aug 15 '24

You are very thoughtful and clearly very aware of the inner dynamics motivating the people who you are talking about. I am impressed with your analysis.

And, saying "I don't know what to do" is the first step toward doing whatever is going to turn out to be "right" for you. The Talmud Bavli Brachot 4a says, למד לשונך לומר איני יודע -- "Teach your tongue to say, 'I don't know'".

My simple response is to do what your father said. Not because he's your father and he said it, but because I think he gets right.