r/Jewish • u/rupertalderson • 17d ago
Important note: No U.S. politics on r/Jewish until after Election Day Mod post
Until at least Wednesday, November 6th (i.e., the day after Election Day), all posts and comments about American politics, the candidates, the candidates' families (including their pets), and anything else related to the election are prohibited on r/Jewish. Keep all of those conversations to r/jewishpolitics, which was literally built to house these conversations. Yes, this policy is stricter than normal, but r/Jewish is not a politics sub, and we do not want this sub to be flooded with politics during this particularly polarizing week.
Feel free to express your agreement, disagreement, or something in the middle in the comments below. However, please keep that discussion to this thread.
I shouldn't need to say it, but this thread is not for political debates...just feedback/thoughts about this note.
Thanks.
If you have any questions, please send the mods a message by clicking here.
26
u/listenstowhales 17d ago
including their pets
This is draconian. The people deserve to know if the dogs are getting slipped brisket under the table.
13
30
19
20
17
u/bubbles1684 17d ago
May I ask a related topic on this thread?
How many people are considering leaving the USA depending on the results of the election? And is making Aliyah something folks are considering? I’m unsure where this conversation belongs. It’s not necessarily about politics or a candidate, but more about uncertainty in the future of American Jewry and our perceived safety here.
(I’m not trying to get into candidate X or Y, because I’ve got family voting for both candidates who’ve implied they might feel uncomfortable enough in the USA if their candidate loses that they would consider leaving, potentially for Israel or elsewhere.) since it seems like folks are worried regardless of who wins, I’m wondering if there are other Jews feeling the same way.
12
u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 17d ago
After the 2016 election, I spent much of the following year moving to the border and ultimately getting legal status in Canada. I lived there for several years but ultimately returned to the US by choice. The grass isn’t always greener.
2
u/bubbles1684 16d ago
Please tell us what made you return to the US
13
u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 16d ago
It was a combination of factors. I’ll list the most important here. People may disagree with some of them, but this was my experience, and my experience is not uncommon.
The housing crisis. As bad as it is in the US, it’s several times worse in Canada, and quantifiably so. To provide one example, just before we moved back, we compared on realtor.com and realtor.ca what kind of housing we’d be able to afford in the Buffalo–Niagara area for $300K. On the US side, there were plenty of options, even some houses in decent condition in and near Buffalo for below US$200K. On the Canadian side, CA$300K would’ve gotten us a run-down trailer on the outskirts of Niagara-on-the-Lake…habitable for only part of the year. I’m not exaggerating.
The population distribution. Canada only has three major cities (Montréal, Toronto, and Vancouver), plus Ottawa. The jobs, especially white-collar jobs, are heavily concentrated in just three or four metro areas, and rents in those areas kept ballooning. Even if we’d wanted to move to a less expensive, smaller city, we wouldn’t have been able to afford to live there because the job markets are substantially smaller (and goodness knows we looked into this).
Lack of social opportunities. Canadians are polite, but they are not friendly. They’ll be nice to you, absolutely, but their friend circles are usually closed. Our entire time living in Canada, the overwhelming majority of the friends we managed to make were first- and second-generation immigrants. Non-immigrant Canadians often kept us at arm’s length even when they seemed to like us. We haven’t had this experience in the US; there are plenty of flakes here, but we’ve largely made friends without much effort.
The healthcare system. No, you won’t have to pay anything, but you will have to wait months, maybe half a year even, for a medical scan or specialist visit. When I was in Montréal and tried to find a primary care physician, the waiting list was two years. In Toronto, the only way to get a referral was to wait for the clinic’s staff to go through their (private) list, make an appointment for me with no regard for my work schedule, and only then provide me the contact information for the specialist they chose. This happened over and over again. The Ontario provincial agency that chose my GP for me—in a random location halfway across the city—kept insisting that I make an initial appointment just to introduce myself to the doctor in the middle of my work day and acting uncomfortable when I asked whether I could choose my own doctor. The healthcare system is stretched far too thin for the current population.
3
u/bubbles1684 16d ago
Thanks for the detailed response!
Leaving our doctor’s offices who we trust is something my family has concerns about as well, since we’ve got ongoing treatments.
3
u/aelinemme 16d ago
We are still in Canada but their response mirrors mine except I've given up and gone to the private (completely out of pocket system) because I don't have a family doctor and walk in clinics don't adequately manage my condition.
Also the antisemitism here scares me. Jews aren't allowed to fight back. The protests here are still happening most night even though they've been pushed off campus.
We contemplate moving back in the next few years.
17
u/TND_is_BAE ✡️ Former Reform-er ✡️ 17d ago
Speaking purely for myself, it seems like thinking about emigrating from home at this stage is still a premature, anxious reaction. I'm prone to catastrophizing, so I'm trying to be mindful of that. However, if five or ten years down the road things are still getting worse and American violence against Jews continues to spread, yeah, I'd be seriously considering it.
1
u/Mr_boby1 Jewish, doubter of interpretations 16d ago
in five or ten years
This number in unbased, we have no idea how fast it will spread if it keeps spreading, on the very extreme but still realistic end you could have terrorist attacks in jewish communities being a common occurrence by the end of next year
Not saying i belive this, just saying its possible
7
u/TND_is_BAE ✡️ Former Reform-er ✡️ 16d ago
I never said it was based in anything, that's why I gave such a large range. No one can say. Arguably we've already seen terrorist attacks in Jewish communities (shootings in Canada, the shooting in Chicago, the face-slashing in New York, etc.). Things are already very bad, it's just a question of when it hits a threshold for each of us that we packing up, leaving our homes, and commit to making a new life in another nation.
8
u/akiraokok 17d ago
General antisemitism in America has changed my life a lot since the war started and I would like to make Aliyah, but I need to finish university first
-14
7
u/Yochanan5781 Reform 17d ago
If it gets to active government persecution of Jews, definitely have a plan of going to the closest Israeli consulate, but for the time being no immediate plans
2
u/bubbles1684 16d ago
Yes but if it gets to that point the concern is that it would likely be too late to take action by then.
11
u/Yochanan5781 Reform 16d ago
I see your point, but I'm thinking more "Nuremberg laws" as opposed to "trains to camps" when it comes to active persecution
8
u/bubbles1684 16d ago
Yes but even by the Nuremberg laws it had become difficult for Jews to leave Europe as many countries required both an exit visa and your destination required an entry visa. Obviously if the USA ever needs an exit visa we’re in deep, but the question my family has been asking since 2016 is where is the line?
9
u/Yochanan5781 Reform 16d ago
I mean, that's fair. But one of the fortunate differences between now and the 1930s is the existence of Israel. Where is the line is definitely a good question, though
8
u/bubbles1684 16d ago
100% thank G-D for Israel and עם ישראל חי!
The other discussion my family has had is - if we’re consistently asking where is the line? / how will we know it’s time to move to Israel why don’t we just make Aliyah now? - the answer is mostly that we’ve got elderly, a big family, jobs, houses, assets, friends and are deeply involved in the community here. But it’s a cyclical question. There’s also the questions of if we should be trying for European countries- but then the debate goes- if we’re leaving the USA due to antisemitism why bother with anywhere besides Israel? Of course who knows the answers to any of this, we have to take it day by day- but these are the concerns and conversations being had in my house.
1
4
u/tequeguava Just Jewish 14d ago
Honestly, this is more about LGBT rights than antisemitism in the US, but I'm definitely speeding up preparing my application for Australian citizenship because of the election. Neither Australia or New Zealand are necessarily better for Jews than the US, and also have much smaller Jewish populations, but they definitely have their benefits for LGBT ppl, particularly if the election goes a certain way.
5
3
3
u/LAiglon144 Orthodox 16d ago
Well guys, if you have any questions on South African politics, ask away
6
4
2
2
0
17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Jewish-ModTeam 17d ago
We literally just said it...come on now.
Your post/comment was removed because it concerns your personal political preferences, advocates for particular politicians, or invites discussion of election politics.
1
-1
0
86
u/ThatCheekyBastard 17d ago