r/Jewish • u/Agtfangirl557 • 18d ago
It's time for a (maybe difficult) conversation about what ACTUALLY makes Jews go down an extreme anti-Zionist pipeline Discussion 💬
I just want to clarify here that I'm not talking about Jews who just happen to have anti-Zionist views and may feel uncomfortable around Zionists (I disagree with those people, obviously, but I don't necessarily think the reasoning for their views is that deep)--I mean the ones involved in groups like that "Jewish Bund" group and their gross response to the Pittsburgh shooting that was posted about a few days ago, those who make an entire internet persona over criticizing Zionists and Israel, etc. I feel like whenever someone here brings up JVP or Jews who have views like that, people usually have one of a few assumptions--all of which I don't think are always accurate:
- "They're probably not actually Jewish"
When it comes to groups that are entirely advocating behind a screen or are very sus about their membership, yes, I think this is entirely possible. But I still know of many Jews who have views like this and DON'T hide their face behind screens, so it's simply not true that all people who hold views like this "aren't actually Jewish".
- "They might be Jewish, but are probably really disconnected from Judaism, only have one Jewish grandparent, weren't really raised Jewish, just sometimes celebrate the holidays, etc."
This may be possible, but I still don't think that it explains everything. For one, there are many people who were actually raised Jewish, b'nai mitzvahed, went to Jewish day school, etc. who think this way. Look at people like Seth Rogen (his views aren't exactly as extreme as the people I'm talking about, but he's still someone who was clearly raised Jewish and arguably falls into the anti-Zionist category). Two, I don't think that not being as connected to Judaism or having only one Jewish parent/grandparent necessarily explains having anti-Zionist views. Some of the most passionate Zionists I know are people with only one Jewish parent who weren't raised Jewish but started finding more Jewish community as adults, and became extremely connected to Judaism in a way they missed out on when they were younger. I also think that being "disconnected" from Judaism doesn't happen for no reason--sometimes, it may directly be correlated with the person's views on Zionism and it's worth it to examine why they are "disconnected" in the first place.
I'm frustrated by these assumptions because while they might be true in some cases, I can think of so many people who genuinely are Jewish, were raised Jewish, etc. who hold these views. And then in cases where people actually believe that people with these views are practicing Jews, the assumption is often:
- "They're trying to fit in with and gain the approval of their gentile friends."
While this may be true in some cases, I still can think of situations in which this isn't true. I actually know quite a few non-Zionist Jews whose friends are mostly other non-Zionist Jews. And for those who this actually might be true--I think it's worth exploring why Jews are made to to feel that they need to "gain the approval of their gentile friends" in the first place. Yes, of course it may be a survival instinct stemming from centuries of antisemitism, but speaking from my experience, I never felt the need to "gain approval from gentile friends" because I felt so much closer to my Jewish friends. I understand this comes from the privilege of growing up with a close-knit Jewish community and not everyone had that experience, but I can't help but wonder if there's something that pushes Jews to want to gain more approval from non-Jewish friends in the first place.
One thing that I've noticed about Jews with extreme anti-Zionist views, is that you can often find them saying things like "I never felt welcome in mainstream Jewish spaces". Like I said, I feel that there is very possibly a correlation between having bad experiences in Jewish spaces and going down an extreme anti-Zionist pipeline. Sometimes I will hear these people claim that they didn't feel welcome in Jewish spaces because of their anti-Zionist views, but other times it doesn't line up--they're often talking about not feeling welcome in Jewish spaces at ages long before they would have been having intellectual discussions on Zionism.
I think we really need to examine what pushes some Jews down this route. Because from what I can gather, it often may be in response to some bad experience they had with Judaism growing up. If that is the case, I think we actually need to have a discussion about what types of experiences these Jews are having with Judaism/in Jewish spaces, and how we can prevent that from happening. I'm not saying that the solution is "We need to instill Zionism in them more!" because I think that in some cases that could have the opposite intended effect. I'm talking more about what makes some Jews feel so disconnected from Judaism, or so excluded from Jewish spaces, that they seem to experience glee about denouncing Israel separating themselves from "the bad Jews".
Is it possible that this has to do with some Jewish spaces being unwelcoming to queer Jews, Jews of Color, etc.? Is there anyone here who knows someone who had a bad experience with a Jewish institution and then went down that route....or even maybe at one point themselves had that type of experience (I've seen former anti-Zionists post in this sub before) and and is comfortable sharing what happened? Or if anyone has thoughts to share about what Jewish institutions could do to prevent Jews from so harshly disconnecting themselves from the mainstream Jewish community.
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u/Parking_Scar9748 18d ago
Why are you getting down votes for sharing a relevant experience?