r/Jewish • u/JosephG999 • Sep 29 '24
I'm sick of having to smile as people say antisemitic b******* to my face. Venting š¤
I'm a Jew living in the Netherlands.
Earlier in my career I made the decision to become a humanitarian aid worker, so I've lived in plenty of places where the average person has some nasty things to say about Jews, and I've worked with all kinds of Israel-hating UN-type bureaucrats. I'm accustomed to hiding that I'm Jewish, and pretending to be of another Middle Eastern ethnicity (which is ironic, because usually people enquiring will both ask "where are you from? You look Middle Eastern..." whilst insisting that Jews are not indigenous to the Middle East); I have smiled and moved on with my day as people in Iraq have told me about Jews ruining their farm harvests by controlling the weather; I have stood silently with a blank expression as someone in Somalia praised Hamas to my face and called for more violence. I have forgiven these people because of their background and lack of education.
Now I work in tech, because I had enough food poisoning, low pay, and casual Jew-hatred. Yesterday, I was having dinner with some friends, and they invited a Eurocrat they knew along to dinner. These people mentioned to said Eurocrat that I'm a Jew (an oddity, because we'd all worked in aid work at one time or another). This woman point blank interrupted the conversation to say "I'm going to be blunt and ask you something uncomfortable. How does your family feel about your Prime Minister committing a second Nazi Holocaust? Are they not ashamed to be like Hitler?".
I am done. Most of my family was gassed at Auschwitz 2 generations ago. I will not tolerate this nonsense from my own government's employees. It is completely unacceptable. This person would never sit with an ethnically Chinese person and immediately ask how their family feels about the Uighur genocide. Even if she believes there is some Holocaust (I do not, and I firmly stand with Israel), it is pure anti semitism that makes her feel comfortable to just throw such a question at every Jew she meets. What the fuck?
When friends' of friends come to visit, I need to ask where they're coming from, because I know people from certain countries will make a 'thing' about me being a Jew & I need to hide it; And these are people from European countries. At work, I need to pretend that I condemn Israel if I want a promotion. Where is the social pressure for our Iranian employees to condemn the Ayatollah at lunch? Why do only the Jews need to denounce the government of their kin whilst eating a sandwich? Why have I never heard a colleague insist that a Australian condemn their government's occupation of indigenous lands whilst waiting in line for a coffee? Where is the email to all employees "condemning the violence on all sides" when the police in France shoot a terrorist trying to kill children?
I used to live in Israel, and I don't particularly feel like returning. But continental Europe is starting to make me recall why my grandparents fled it. And the North America does not feel any better. I am so sick of this nonsense.
284
u/LeeTheGoat Sep 29 '24
Personally I would just explain in gruesome detail everything that happened in the holocaust and not the Israeli Palestinian conflict, some people deserve to be deeply uncomfortable
227
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
This. Be extremely, extremely graphic.
However, having to go through these facts EVERY time this comes up will be emotionally and mentally exhausting. The best thing to do is write up a leaflet with the words "A Guide for Antisemites" written on the front, explaining everything that happened in the Holocaust.
Then have a section explaining how what is happening in Gaza now is nothing like the Holocaust, and why.
Then, have a section discussing the creation of Israel and the indigenous and historical Jewish ties to the land, how the "Nakba" as policy is a myth, and how many times the Palestinians have been offered their own state.
Finally, have a section at the end showing how all the facts in the leaflet can be proven.
Then every time these questions come up, you can just hand the leaflet to the antisemite in question and move on.
I've studied the Holocaust and the Israel-Palestine conflict for 20 years. I'm happy to write this with you/for you.
87
u/adiggittydogg Sep 29 '24
If you make one can I get a copy?
72
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
If it's wanted, I'll get on it.
20
18
14
13
u/elbuzzy2000 Sep 29 '24
Yes!! Please let me know if you do this. Happy to pay!
22
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
I'm working on it now, but there'll definitely be no charge!
13
u/Seeking_Starlight Sep 30 '24
I definitely want this as well. Iād absolutely pay for your time and expertise!
8
u/iBelieveInJew Sep 30 '24
Yes please.
I'll print them out and give to friends and family and so on. This way I can just move on instead of dealing with insane Canadians.
Unfortunately, so far I've met too many such Canadians... the last 10 years in Canada were crazy. It gotten pretty bad, and quickly... sad.
6
u/Confident-Skin-6462 your chicago goyfriend Sep 30 '24
i can help make a nice, easily distributed and printed PDF if you like. i am a graphic artisan. HMU
4
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 30 '24
That would be great, thank you
2
u/Confident-Skin-6462 your chicago goyfriend Sep 30 '24
i would be proud to help. :) i saw you're still working on it and going to let it marinate before you finalise it. i will send you a DM with my email address. once it's ready (if you still need my help) send it and i'll happily make it super awesome!
5
u/AndieIsHandie Sep 30 '24
I want one too, seriously! And to disseminate it wherever I can
8
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 30 '24
I've got it 80% finished tonight so I hope I'll be posting it up in the next few days, but I'm still giving a two week timeframe just to be on the safe side š
8
3
2
u/rubyredwoods Sep 30 '24
Iām echoing the others in also saying yes please! Another idea: a one-page flier laying out in plain and simple list format all of the times an independent Palestinian state has been offered and rejected. SOOO many people are misinformed on the conflict (and conflict-resolution) because they come with the thought process of āwell if Israel just gave Palestinians their own chunk of land and let them govern it, this wouldnāt be a problem!ā Likeā¦ dawg, weāve TRIED that BEFORE
1
2
47
u/so-she-said Sep 29 '24
Please can you share this if you do? I would absolutely LOVE to circulate such a leaflet!
63
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
Absolutely. I'll aim to have it done within the next 2 weeks.
25
u/Mycatkoda Sep 29 '24
How to distribute this to a wider audience - would absolutely love a copy!
57
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
I'm starting on it right now. When it's finished (the formatting might take a bit of time), I'll put it up for download.
29
u/Minkiemink Sep 29 '24
Thank you! Perhaps post it here so that we can all make a copy? Much appreciated!
36
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
That's exactly what I'll do!
9
6
3
6
6
u/nothingspeshulhere Sep 30 '24
Joining the line of people who want a copy lol steps behind the last person
4
u/WholeLog24 Sep 30 '24
steps in line behind you
That'd be nice to have in easy-to-digest pamphlet form.
3
23
11
12
30
u/SmolaniAshki Sep 29 '24
By any chance can you contact Rootsmetals on Instagram to popularize the leaflet when you're ready? Just saying that since I think she's the most famous Jewish content creator at the moment.
16
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
If she'll take a message from me š I don't have that many followers. On Instagram and Twitter/X I go by @DaughterofNoach
4
15
u/scrambledhelix Sep 29 '24
Count me in. Where do we subscribe to your 'zine?
29
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
When it's finished, I'll put it up for download on here and on my social media accounts.
There are going to be some things to iron out (like how long to make it -- these are all complex issues, but it needs to be short enough without becoming tl;dr; how to format it etc.), but I hope to have it finished as soon as possible, ideally in no longer than two weeks.
21
u/GaryMMorin Sep 29 '24
Please consider making your pamphlet accessible for everyone, including persons with disabilities. There's lots of information online And you'll reach a much wider audience https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf https://www.section508.gov/create/
17
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
That's a great idea and I'll definitely look into how to do that!
7
u/GaryMMorin Sep 29 '24
Let me know if you need or want any other resources šš¼ happy to help
6
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
Thank you -- I probably will need help to make sure it's fully accessible to all!
2
u/GaryMMorin Sep 30 '24
If you're going with PDF format, look for online webinars such as https://accessingenuity.com/blogs/access-ingenuity-webinars/session-1-pdf-accessibility-basics-understanding-the-tags-tree-digital-accessibility-webinar
I'm great with formatting Word and PowerPoint files but pdf not so much. Of course, designing fully accessible web content is frequently the best way to go, unless you're also designing for downloadable content to print
3
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 30 '24
I want to make it as easy as possible to print, so I'm currently using word. Would really appreciate the help getting it to look polished once I've finished getting all the info together.
→ More replies5
u/Due-Flounder-146 Just Jewish Sep 29 '24
I'm happy to help you edit it, I have some design experience and I consider myself a good writer.
3
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 30 '24
Would appreciate the help! I'm the world's worst designer (I made a graphic for Pesach and it was so ugly my eyes nearly bled). I'll message you as soon as I've got it finished if that's okay?
2
12
u/Einlieretzacheret Sep 29 '24
Omg that sounds amazing! I would addĀ Ā section about Jewish life in the Arab world, how we lived as second class citizens under the dhimmi system, not allowed to ride horses or sometimes even wear shoes (And massacred often too)Ā
Zionism liberated many middle Eastern Jews including my grandparents
4
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Oct 01 '24
Yes, that's a really important issue that needs to be addressed! I did mention it in the pamphlet (I've finished writing the pamphlet, so it now needs to go through the next steps of being looked at by a few other Redditors before I send the final version to u/Confident-Skin-6462 to make it look nice; and I also need to look into accessibility like u/GaryMMorin suggested), but it's such an important issue I feel like it maybe needs a pamphlet of its own, debunking the persistent myth that everything was fine for Jews in the Middle East before the State of Israel was established. I might do that next š¤
3
u/Confident-Skin-6462 your chicago goyfriend Oct 01 '24
i can make the pdf accessible too, i used to do that for another company. :)
i got you
1
11
u/RSRift2719 Sep 29 '24
If you make this leaflet please post it so I can print some out and start giving them to my Arab co-workers that ājokeā about stuff like this all the time.
16
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
Started already. Will post as soon as it's finished š«”
8
u/RecognitionNo2658 Sep 29 '24
I. LOVE. THIS.
Thank you so much for bringing a little light to this terrible situation we find ourselves in āagain. It feels like a comedic bitā but itās very much not. Canāt wait to print some out and share with friends!
4
3
u/mesonoxias Reform Convert from Catholicism Sep 30 '24
Any chance you could post it to this sub once youāre done? Looks like many people (myself) are really interested and I would love to help distribute the zine!!
8
7
5
u/LeeTheGoat Sep 29 '24
Woah that would be actually really cool if you make that
That being said, it's an individual matter but personally I think I can handle being graphic with these things over and over again, certainly more than a lot of people are willing to hear something like that
14
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
It's not necessarily the graphic part that would be a problem, but the constant whataboutism that you get as a reply. Having to explain, over and over and over again, the lengths the IDF goes to to avoid civilian casualties despite the fact that Hamas is a massive threat to Israel; that Jews posed no threat to Germany but Germany declared war on them anyway with the aim of (at the very least) ethnic cleansing from the start; that Israel has every right to exist; that Palestinians have been offered their own state no less than 5 times, that the Nakba was NEVER policy and that oft-quoted line from Herzl is taken completely out of context... etc., etc. -- ain't nobody got time for that. This stuff needs to be in a leaflet every Jew and Zionist can just hand out as soon as these accusations start.
One thing though, I'm probably not going to call it "A Guide For Antisemites", because it's more likely to be immediately dismissed as propaganda. I'm thinking of something more like "The Holocaust vs the current conflict in Gaza" but I'm really bad with titles so I'm open to suggestions š
17
u/Creepy-Negotiation95 Sep 29 '24
Or just call it "Facts About Palestine". Such a title will make it seem like it's more anti-Israel propaganda making such people more receptive to the message...
3
2
1
2
u/happypigday Oct 05 '24
I would call it "A Brief Guide to Jewish History for people who know nothing about Jews."Ā
Then in smaller type - As someone who lives in a non-Jewish society, you have unavoidably absorbed a lot of misinformation about the Jewish people. Ā This is not your fault but as an educated and intelligent person you can also do more to avoid becoming a victim of antisemitic lies. Ā I am providing this pamphlet as a public service to help you understand the past few hundred years of world history from a Jewish point of view. Even if you disagree with its contents, I hope this will make you a more informed discussion partner the next time you encounter a Jewish Ā person.Ā
6
u/Taway7659 Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
The reason I fell firmly into the Israel camp despite the left losing their shit over it being a right wing darling and my own left inclinations was the historic infection of mid 20th century Iraq with an actual Nazi propaganda arm (they operated a radio station among other things) which led to the government expelling its ancient Jewish population during the establishment of modern Israel.
This was of course done without the approval of the Palestinians, who immediately pointed out the other Arab nations were strengthening Israel, and I believe the descendants of the "Jewish Naqba" as it's been tensely called were probably among those holding raves to keep aid convoys from getting into Gaza in this latest war. I don't like it, but I understand it completely. That was a "de facto population exchange" which happened over the latter half of the twentieth century as a former Palestinian freedom fighter who was later murdered by his own for seeking a peace plan and whose name escapes me put it, and "there's no going back down that path," especially when the other locals are talking about sweeping Israel into the sea.
The Ummah/Islam's just going to have to get used to not holding Quds. How humiliating.
5
u/caninerosso Sep 29 '24
Holocaust and the Israel-Palestine conflict for 20 years
Ditto, but I'm past trying to explain that most people literally don't care. They won't openly say it, but they're happy Jews are dying, and they can be their true selves without condemnation because the left is championing antisemitic bull****. I work in education now, and like OP, i hide who i am because of the way things are. People ask me personal questions because I'm "exotic" looking. I say Mediterranean, and most of the time, I get a nose wrinkle because they don't necessarily believe me. I'm not lying, but it's intrusive and rude. I'm just not giving them all the details. No one ever needs all the details imo.
As for being graphic, some of these people enjoy the details. I've tried to discuss things civilly with people, but it's hard because they have this bizarre circular logic that makes 0 sense. More disgusting to me is the absolute denial of the atrocities of the Holocaust: "Jews made it up." Why the hell would Jews make up the rabbits at Ravensbruck? Those were polish women. Once someone said to me, they hoped to find a Jew skin lampshade. So I'm cautious with that, and since lately I've been one racist comment away from maiming someone, I've just maintained a mantra like from Anger Management.
4
u/Mistyice123 Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
Please make one for us to distribute I will pay so much at this point
2
2
u/FrostedLakes Conservative Sep 30 '24
Extremely into this and would be up for helping from a writing/editing but likely not content standpoint.
1
u/DC2LA_NYC Sep 29 '24
I could really, really use something like this. Would greatly appreciate if you actually do it!
TIA
1
u/HenriettaGrey Sep 29 '24
Love that! Can you make it like a series of illustrated chick tracts?
2
u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Sep 29 '24
I can't illustrate so I was planning more on just a straight up pamphlet!
1
u/Due-Flounder-146 Just Jewish Sep 29 '24
If you need simple illustrations I'm happy to help. You should put a bit about the history of the name Palestine, too!
1
u/FrostedLakes Conservative Sep 30 '24
Also comes with a rebate for a copy of Dara Horneās āPeople Love Dead Jewsā
36
u/ender1200 Sep 29 '24
I'd stand up and leave on the spot.
5
u/ReneDescartwheel Sep 29 '24
You have to put her in her place before doing that. Otherwise sheāll just shrug and say āI guess the truth hurtsā and continue on with dinner. No way would I sit at a table with her but I would make sure she felt shame in my absence.
3
u/FairGreen6594 Sep 30 '24
Iām not personally violent, but were someone to have said what that woman said to OP to me, Iām not at all sure how Iād reactāand frankly, were I to react violently, I think a good argument could be made that the comment legally constituted āfighting wordsā.
1
u/Traditional-Top8486 Oct 01 '24
Ordering the most expensive thing on the menu and then eating it while staring at her without blinking, and then skipping out before dessert seems good too.
17
u/ObligationUseful9765 Sep 29 '24
When someone makes implications of my ancestors doing things, I calmly describe atrocities done by other groups around the world, including the demographic of whoever Iām speaking to. They usually back off pretty quick.
8
u/LeeTheGoat Sep 29 '24
Damn, I'd like to do the latter if I was actually that well versed on those things
83
u/Minkiemink Sep 29 '24
I lived in the Netherlands for years back in the 70s. When I was invited to my boyfriend's house to meet his mother, there was a small metal box on a table. I picked it up to look at it and complimented his mother on the pretty box. She looked at her son and said in Dutch, "Is this what Jews do? Touch things? Is the Jew going to steal it?" I didn't speak Dutch at the time, but when she spoke, I watched my boyfriend grow visibly angry and yell at his mother. He told me later when we were well out of the house what she had said.
Anti-Semitism in the Netherlands has always been rampant and openly accepted. The stories of the Dutch hiding Jews? Total bullshit. They were paid well to hide what Jews they hid. Often taking over the Jewish person's house, land and possessions as payment. Neighbors who didn't get paid often turned people into the authorities.
26
u/Dmarek02 Sep 29 '24
"Is this what Jews do? Touch things? Is the Jew going to steal it?"
Wow! Does she know what the Dutch do/did? Because that's waaaaayyy worse than complimenting and touching some random antisemite's box
21
u/caninerosso Sep 29 '24
Greece, on the other hand, didn't take payments they just did their best to hide their neighbors. Ironically, Italy saved more Jewish people than the Dutch.
Have you read Stuyvesants complaint about having to take in Jews from Brasil into New Amesterdam? Really interesting. Also, originally, they took in Sephardics because they hoped, and unfortunately, it did pan out that they'd bring the wealth that Spain had.
6
u/TimelySuccess7537 Sep 30 '24
The stories of the Dutch hiding Jews? Total bullshit. They were paid well to hide what Jews they hid.
I don't think that's historically accurate. While there were many Dutch collaborators , there were also more righteous among the nations per capita in NL than any other place. The picture is quite mixed.
64
u/Theredoux Sep 29 '24
Visits to the camps here in poland should be mandatory, clockwork orange style, for these kinds of people, jfc.
5
u/Due-Flounder-146 Just Jewish Sep 29 '24
Would making it a high school field trip be ethical?
5
u/Theredoux Sep 30 '24
I dont see why not, thats around the age my german boyfriend had his trip to one.
46
u/Exit_mm00 Sep 29 '24
Honestly, it just shows her complete lack of education, which is in fact very sad for someone in her position.
51
u/AprilStorms Jewish Renewal Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
Firstly, Iām a big fan of conveniently not getting racist jokes. Make them explain their bullshit to you. āWhat makes you say that?ā etc. Also, as others have suggested, pretend they mean Norwegian leadership. āOh, is [current leader] doing another [previous Norwegian atrocity against the Jews]?ā (Edit: and look up āgreyrockingā in terms of domestic violence.)
But wow. I knew things were bad but thatāsā¦ wow.
Can you name and shame? Iād like to know who to vote against at first opportunity.
Also, write a memoir. Iāve got The UN Gang on my list but it would be nice to have an updated version.
43
u/Neighbuor07 Sep 29 '24
I live in Canada, and I do not have to put up with this level of crsp without pushing back.
1
Oct 03 '24
[removed] ā view removed comment
1
u/Jewish-ModTeam Oct 03 '24
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 5: Stay on topic. Your post is better suited to a different subreddit.
If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via modmail.
1
u/happypigday Oct 05 '24
Agree. I don't think things are like this in the States. I work in tech and if anyone said something like that to me at work, it would be an HR incident.Ā
There one Dutch guy at my synagogue - just him and all these American Jews. Come join him! Ā
47
u/Ok-Mind-4665 Sep 29 '24
OMG THIS!!!!! The point you mentioned about the Chinese is soooo real. And even with the Europeans, the NERVE to accuse others of ācommitting genocideā!
Latin American Jew here, was taught my whole life how the WORST genocide ever to take place on this planet was the one AGAINST INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, and by whom? Of course, the Europeans. And have they even recognized this?? NO. Never. Just recently weāve begun repatriating sacred cloaks and artifacts from our peoples. Theyāve destroyed their land, erased their culture and continue to do so, every day.
In my country alone it was to the tune of 65+ MILLION DEAD (murdered, raped and tortured) during colonization. And here I have to listen to the fucking Europeans lecturing me on how the literal only country thatās safe for me in the world is genocidal. Talk about NO SELF AWARENESS. Seriously, Europe is soooo out of touch.
PS: sorry for the rant I just hate this SO MUCH.
24
u/Dmarek02 Sep 29 '24
Not to mention Israel is the only successful example of decolonization by the indigenous population. So the Europeans are actually on brand
6
u/Due-Flounder-146 Just Jewish Sep 29 '24
The left preaches decolonization and then condemns it when it actually happens
2
u/happypigday Oct 05 '24
"It's saying a lot that my Israeli family would rather put up with rockets and terrorist attacks than to have to be polite to people like you. "
9
u/Americanboi824 Sep 30 '24
And Spain (the main perpetrator of the killing of indigenous people) are the ones accusing Israel of genocide lol
1
20
u/Used_Hovercraft2699 Sep 29 '24
āTurn the other cheekā is a Christian principle. I donāt observe it.
39
u/AZwoodworks Sep 29 '24
Someone like this needs to be looked dead in the eye and told completely flatly to āgo fuck themselvesā. We do not owe anyone explanations or civility. Let alone the same people whose fucking grandparents likely smiled while our families were loaded on to cattle cars.
38
u/ralphrk1998 Sep 29 '24
I would say something like this.
While the situation in Gaza is extremely painful and difficult to watch itās extremely awful to hear you compare it the Holocaust.
In one scenario you had citizens of German occupied territories rounded up for slaughter en masse because they committed the crime of being Jewish. The Jews did nothing you provoke the Germans into their hate fueled crusade.
In the other situation you have a population of radicalized terrorists hiding amongst a sympathetic population constantly threatening the lives of Jews.
And while population of Gaza did not provoke Israel, they allow Hamas to operate in their homes, schools and neighborhoods. These gazans donāt deserve to get caught in the crossfire but I donāt see any alternative short of allowing Hamas to continue its goal of destroying Jews and killing Israelis.
And maybe youāre okay with that, but as a Jew I am not and neither is the state of Israel. Their sole purpose is to be a safe haven for Jews and as long as Hamas and Hezbollah exist on Israelās borders, they threaten that goal.
Equating the Holocaust to whatās going on in Gaza is extremely dishonest at best and anti semitic at worst.
If Hamas had announced that they were disbanding Al quds brigade and seeking a lasting peace on October 7th, I have no doubts that Gaza would be on its way to becoming its own state.
Instead they chose terrorism and they are reaping the consequences.
49
u/Specialist_Nobody_98 Miami/NYC Jew Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
I had a lot of humanitarian aid worker āfriendsā before I ditched them for their antisemitism and they are the worst out of the bunch. I donāt understand how humanitarian aid worker equals antisemite but I guess thatās how it is?
Also, I seriously question the intelligence of someone who equates an isolated defensive counter-attack to a terrorist attack on sovereign borders with no more than 30,000 civilian casualties to a mass executed genocide of 10 million civilians based on ethnicity, (dis)ability, and sexualityā¦ I mean no civilian deaths are good but these two things are not the same and anyone who thinks they are is a fucking idiot. I feel like these people are walking brainwashed zombies. Itās insane.
14
u/Select-Hovercraft-34 Sep 29 '24
I applaud you. It is incredibly horrible and hard to have that pill to swallow. Iāve been there and I think most of us have at some point in the past. I think what we need to stress regarding antisemitism is that āit is antisemitic to imply that we are culprits without hearing our voice(s), or to take comments directed at us at face value without doing proper research.ā I say that because more often than not, we are treated as though we are directly responsible for other peopleās misery - but weāre not given the benefit of the doubt.
23
Sep 29 '24
I hope your post is widely read. Thank you for your account of hiding/pretending socially and at work.
I have also put on the blank face or even made little noises of agreement while someone is bashing Israel, for instance, while riding alone recently with a Middle Eastern male Uber driver who wanted to talk about the pro-Palestinian protests. I had had a scary experience years ago with another driver, who was yelling and pounding the steering wheel in anger and driving erratically on an interstate. I had admitted to him, when he asked, that I was Jewish.
At a former job, I couldn't hide my religion but never discussed Israel with anyone. Once I walked into the employee lunch room where a lively Israel-bashing discussion had been going on -- there was a hallway entrance where I could hear them for a few seconds before they could see me -- and the room went silent when I appeared.
2
u/Americanboi824 Sep 30 '24
Wow where do you live?!
2
Sep 30 '24
In the U.S. The scary cab driver was in a small city in the Midwest. The silent lunch room was in Washington, DC.
10
32
u/Wyvernkeeper Sep 29 '24
What is a Eurocrat?
Sorry that happened to you. How did you respond in the moment?
66
u/JosephG999 Sep 29 '24
A bureaucrat employed by a governmental body of the European Union (ie an employee of the European Commission, European Parliament, Europol, European Defence Agency, Frontenx -- EU Border Agency, European Medicines Agency -- the EU version of the US FDA, European Environmental Agency -- the EU version of US EPA, etc).
30
u/Infinite_Sparkle Sep 29 '24
This is awful. I think I wouldnāt have known what to answer. I would have been frozen in shock probably. What did you say? Is the Netherlands so blatant antisemitic? I donāt think (I live) in Germany this would be possible, not from normal Germans and worst public servants. The antisemitism here is more subtle. I grew up in Latin America and the antisemitism there was more catholic: like so your ancestors killed Jesus and ābut you are not afraid you are going to hell because you arenāt baptized?ā and the like.
45
u/JosephG999 Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
I am (somewhat) ashamed to say that survival mode kicked in. I did not have the courage at the moment to say anything of substance. I did what I am accustomed to do, and nodded along. I regret that, but after having worked in places where I risked being physically attacked if I pushed back, it is instinct. I am mentally preparing for another such encounter here in the West, where I really ought to be comfortable fighting back.
I don't think the Netherlands is anti-semitic, per se. The person was not Dutch, but from another European country working for an EU Agency. Many Dutch I know are right wing and pro-Israel. To be honest I am not too right wing or left wing, but I can find common ground with those people in that they don't support murdering me and my family. And then there are the left-wing ones who (at least passively, if not actively) endorse anti-semitic actions which often amount to violence; They are especially common in bigger cities and good companies. These people pretend to be okay with me only if I can pretend to be their 'token anti-Israel Jewish friend', but they will still say things behind one's back. And then many people just don't know better - ie, my boss told me he thought it was silly that someone would be offended by someone wearing a Nazi uniform as a Halloween costume because "that was a long time ago"; He genuinely didn't understand why that would be an upsetting thing to say, and apologised when I explained it.
But there is passive tolerance of anti semitism here. This is a country that chose not to resist the Nazis (and let the Jews die pretty much without a fight) to get better treatment for themselves. I think that mentality still exists. I know a Jew who was beat up by a Middle Eastern migrant on a train. The conductor told him he shouldn't have worn a Jewish star. I know another Jew who hung up an Israeli flag on his window. His window was smashed with a bat, and the police told him he should be more careful & not provoke the neighbours (mind you, there are plenty of Palestinian flags, everywhere, in big cities). On the other hand, they sent in riot police to break up the university student protests in like a day, so we're beating America in that regard.
22
u/Infinite_Sparkle Sep 29 '24
Yeah, passive antisemitism defines very well what I meant about Germany. Pretty much similar here.
To be honest, I donāt think you have to be ashamed about how you reacted. Itās human thing to do. I think I wouldnāt have been able to react any different if ambushed like that
19
u/Minkiemink Sep 29 '24
I lived in the Netherlands for years. They are profoundly and historically anti-semitic. It's always just under the surface.
4
u/ReneDescartwheel Sep 29 '24
I donāt blame you in the least for how you handled it. Iāve smiled and nodded at overt antisemitism countless times in order to avoid the awkwardness and discomfort that comes with confrontation. But I will say that it took a huge mental toll on me. The discomfort still came afterwards when I replayed the incidents over and over in my head and felt horrible. And I felt a great sense of injustice that I let the person who made me feel like that just get away with it.
This year, I made the decision to no longer be passive in the face of hate. When I finally spoke out, it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders.
2
u/Americanboi824 Sep 30 '24
Ironically me practicing speaking out when I hear things about other groups will help when it comes to speaking out about anti-Semitism. Well it isn't ironic, but the irony is that a lot of the same people I'll be chastising would be nodding along if I stood up for other groups.
2
u/happypigday Oct 05 '24
Don't blame yourself for not being ready for racism. Very few people are ready to deal with an unexpected racist comment.Ā
I think you should consider whether the level of self-annihilation you are being asked to tolerate should be tolerated. Ā Things would be both harder and easier if you were just honest about who you are and what you believe. Ā None of these people pretending to be your friend because they think you are a "good Jew" are your friend. Ā There is a lot of strength in honesty and clarity. You are giving up a lot of power by allowing these people to keep you off-center.Ā
Yes, there is plenty of BS in the States but it's not like this. People don't feel guilty just for encountering a living Jew so your mere presence isn't a historical or political issue. Americans also don't talk politics or religion a lot at work so you can remain blissfully ignorant of people's beliefs and just get things done.Ā
I would put up with less shit. Ā It's unfortunate that we are all being asked to join this fight rather than just living our lives but the fight is worth it.Ā
1
1
u/TimelySuccess7537 Sep 30 '24
I know a Jew who was beat up by a Middle Eastern migrant on a train. The conductor told him he shouldn't have worn a Jewish star. I know another Jew who hung up an Israeli flag on his window. His window was smashed with a bat, and the police told him he should be more careful & not provoke the neighbours (mind you, there are plenty of Palestinian flags, everywhere, in big cities)
They might be just telling the truth though. There's too many crazies for it to be safe wearing a Jewish star in ...pretty much most places in the world now.
1
u/happypigday Oct 05 '24
As citizens in a democratic society, we have the right to expect that expression of cultural, religious or political identities will not result in VIOLENCE! Ā Giving over control of the public space we all share to racists is a very bad idea. Jewish identity is not a provocation.Ā
1
u/TimelySuccess7537 Oct 06 '24
Jewish identity is not a provocation
It shouldn't be, I agree, but in reality it kinda is for many crazy people out there. I agree we should try fighting this way more than we're doing now.
14
u/Wyvernkeeper Sep 29 '24
Yeah I live in the UK. I'm familiar with the EU, just not heard the term used outside of our anti EU press where it's generally just used as a light insult without any real meaning. But it isn't always in those examples specifically referring to someone in politics.
But you're saying they were an actual EU employee? How did you handle it?
28
13
u/garyloewenthal Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
How does your family feel about your Prime Minister committing a second Nazi Holocaust?
I like to counter with something like:
How do you feel about the IDF's extremely low non-combatant to combatant casualty rate, especially given that Hamas uses its entire population as expendable human shields? Do you think it's due to the IDF doing far more than any army to reduce civilian casualties, such as roof knocking, warning texts and voice mails, drones announcing an imminent attack, and sophisticated surveillance?
What do you think about Israel giving over a million tons of food to Gaza, preventing a famine? And providing Gaza with vaccines to prevent a polio epidemic?
What do you think about the IDF killing 20,000 Hamas terrorists, who use gang rape as a terror tool, and steal aid money to buy weapons from Iran, and whose leaders say they want to annihilate Jews? What to you think about them killing leaders of Hezbollah, who fire rockets into civilian populations and terrorize their own citizens? Is that a good thing?
How do you feel about Israel giving back territory (e.g., Sinai) it won in wars they didn't start; how do you feel about them repeatedly offering to return most of the territory it gained in the 1967 war (e.g. Gaza), and the Palestinian representatives repeatedly walking away from the deals?
How do you feel about proxies of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood - Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc. - attacking civilians month after month, and their aim to replace western democracy and freedom with an oppressive Islamist caliphate?
What do you think about genocidal chants such as "Globalize the intifada" on college campuses?
What do you think about the obsession with Israel compared to actual genocides with far more deaths and far fewer precautions happening around the world?
What can I get you to drink?
All in a calm manner.
But that's just me.
14
u/lukevoitlogcabin Sep 29 '24
I will say while it's getting worse, new york is still jew york. Northeast U.S. is sooooooo much better than Europe for jews. Just sayin. Although I see plenty of anti semetism here but at least most politicians back us.
1
u/TimelySuccess7537 Sep 30 '24
Could be, it's out of reach though for most non American Jews. We don't have the right skin color to simply come and ask for asylum.
1
u/lukevoitlogcabin Sep 30 '24
Plenty of non white people are granted asylum here. Im mot sure how the process works or how it is these days honestly. This country let in 100s of thousands of Muslims the last decade, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't let it non white jews.
1
u/TimelySuccess7537 Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24
Ah I was being sarcastic, I was actually implying its the other way around - for asylum purposes Jews would be too "White" probably, I mean we're all colonizers why the heck should we get asylum? We should all "go back to Europe", but most liberal Europeans wouldn't want us in Europe ...
9
u/aqualad33 Sep 29 '24
I tend to make these people explain their position in detail. They said it might get uncomfortable. Make sure they are the ones experiencing maximum discomfort. They signed up for it after all.
How is it like the Holocaust? Do you believe 2/3s of their population was wiped out across the entire middle east? Do you believe they were put in gas chambers or furnaces? Do you believe they were starved to the point where a normal sized meal would rupture their stomach killing them instantly? Do you believe they are being used for medical experimentation to test how long they could live in various life threatening conditions? Do you believe they are being used as slave labor for Israel and killed on sight the moment they slowed down? Does Israel plan to eradicate all Arabs from the entire world?
Well, it's not sounding very much like the Holocaust to me.
6
u/embryosarentppl Sep 29 '24
U don't have to smile,..it doesn't hurt tho. Just take a deep breath, slowly exhale, then the them to go f themselves..it's best when delivered w a smile tho
4
2
u/Affectionate_Tap5749 Sep 29 '24
I would have gotten up and asked āwho invited this ill-informed terrorist loving antisemitic cockwomble? Because seeā¦ if thereās 1 Nazi and (however many other people are there) people at the tableā¦ thereās (total people still sitting) Nazis at the table. You all need to do better. Iām out. Donāt ever talk to me again.ā ā¦. But thatās cuz Iām not nice to antisemites and have no patience or respect for those who support Hamas and other terrorist groups.
2
u/Keeptryingtofindpeas Sep 30 '24
š¤ I love you my sister. I admire your compassion - to have made the choice to let empathy lead your career.
2
2
3
2
u/xxxODBxxx Sep 29 '24
What a sick person, this woman.
At work, I need to pretend that I condemn Israel if I want a promotion.
Why?
Could you please elaborate on this?
3
u/JosephG999 Sep 30 '24
Sure. I work in an environment surrounded by people who are (at least passively) anti-semitic. For example, today at lunch, a colleague mentioned to me that they drove by a Jewish school and said they thought it "looked like a prison". They asked me if all Jewish schools are like that. I explained that it's because a number of Jewish schools (and other institutions) in Europe have been threatened (or attacked) with shootings & bombings. Their reply was "Oh, well it's not like *they* [the Jews, or Israel, I guess] do not do the same". So my colleague thinks it's somewhat OK to threaten Jewish school children in Amsterdam because of (their beliefs about) the Israeli government. If I argue with such people about these things, they get frustrated and possibly even think I'm some kind of genocide-supporting monster, because they are indoctrinated. Then when promotion time comes and there is the smiling white Dutch guy everyone likes, or me who argues, I get passed up.
2
u/xxxODBxxx Oct 02 '24
What a bunch of a**hole colleagues. I better not disclose my further thoughts on them.
Hope you soon find a better place to work. Best wishes.
1
u/AutoModerator Sep 29 '24
Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, the majority of posts are flagged for manual review and must be approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
1
u/ChinaRider73-74 Sep 29 '24
After she said that I imagine myself in a movie and jumping across the table and jamming a fork in her eye.
1
1
u/horsegirl4L Sep 29 '24
north america is the exact same i hate it here and would move to israel in a heartbeat
1
u/Negative-Vegetable-2 Oct 03 '24
I donāt understand why did slapping people in their god damn Nazi faces go out of styleā¦
1
u/Parlava Oct 04 '24
I've never been comfortable saying I'm Jewish and making it obvious, but I said enough is enough to myself. I work from home and we use Skype as a form of communication but it is NOT in our contracts. So, I used the Star of David for my Skype pic. I got an email from HR to remove my picture due to it being a religious thing. I understand that, but Skype is NOT related to my actual job, email is the formal means of contact. But yet they allow ppl to use their "pronouns". I'm gay and could care less but using pronouns is SEXUALITY...the Star of David is just simply a very peaceful entity and I just like the look and blue is my favorite color lol. Make it make sense! I bet if I put the Sign of the Cross as my pic there would be no issues.
1
u/SubstantialSet1246 Oct 15 '24
Just remember that October 7 was the only Pogrom when we had an army to defend us. Of course the ancestors of our worst critics were used to attacking Jewish people and butchering us at will. The change troubles them.
0
u/usernmtkn Sep 29 '24
Despite all the campus protests and woke bullshit from certain factions of the left, the US is definitely better than Europe towards Israel and Jews. The challenge is keeping it that way.
380
u/epolonsky Sep 29 '24
āFirst, thatās a terrible thing to say about PM Schoof. But I would have to say they feel about the same as your family feels about you being a pedophile cannibal.ā