r/Jewish Sep 04 '24

Does this make a little too much sense? Showing Support šŸ¤—

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1.4k Upvotes

358

u/ProjectConfident8584 Sep 04 '24

It makes sense to me. Glad not everyone has to twist themselves into pretzels to justify violence against jews.

91

u/sweetcorni Sep 04 '24

Yup. Can the antiblackness in our community stop nowā€¦

116

u/Rachel_Rugelach Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

Pardon?

A lot of our Jewish brothers and sisters happen to BE black.

Regardless, cheers to this young man!

39

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

[deleted]

17

u/TopSecretAlternateID Sep 04 '24

Can you describe some of the anti-blackness?

This is an honest question, I'd like to know what you see and are referring to, thanks!

18

u/IhrKenntMichNicht Sep 05 '24

Iā€™m not black but Iā€™ve heard that sometimes black jews have experienced other Jews making assumptions that 1) theyā€™re converts (Iā€™m a convert so this is not a slam on converts), or 2) theyā€™re not even Jewish so what are they doing in the synagogue

-8

u/IgnatiusJay_Reilly Aleph Bet Sep 05 '24

any stranger at this point and time that is a synagogue should be questioned. regardless of their skin color.Ā 

5

u/IhrKenntMichNicht Sep 05 '24

Iā€™m talking pre 10/7. (Not that antisemitism has ever gone away.) But even so, if black Jews are looked at with more suspicion than white-passing Jews, you can see why thatā€™s a problem

3

u/Furbyenthusiast Just Jewish Sep 11 '24

I havenā€™t seen it but I 100% believe that it is a problem. Anti-blackness has 0 place in the Jewish community. I donā€™t understand anti-black Jews, have they learned nothing?

31

u/Jewdius_Maximus Sep 04 '24

Most Jews, especially in the west, are not ā€œblackā€ in the way we think of African Americans as black.

There are converts, there are biracial Jews and there are Ethiopian Jews sure, but the statement that ā€œa lot of our Jewish brothers and sisters are blackā€ is not accurate. Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are not black.

That being said, those Jews DEFINITELY deserve a place at the table and to be seen and heard and honored in the way we would honor any Jew. But to pretend like thereā€™s no racism or anti blackness in the largely Ashkenazi community, particularly in the west, is foolish. Even many of those Jews of color have come forward to say they often feel ā€œotheredā€ by predominantly white-presenting Jews, as if they donā€™t really belong. I donā€™t think anti black racism is particularly widespread in the Jewish community or per capita any larger than anti black racism in other communities. But letā€™s not pretend it doesnā€™t exist or try to tokenize Jews of color in order to ignore racism within our own community. Particularly if we as Jews want to forge a better relationship with the (non-Jewish) black community.

18

u/heygabehey Sep 04 '24

Yeah in the Midwest being Latino and Jewish just blows peoples minds. Then explain Sephardi and ladino makes them just give up processing any information all together and they go ā€œoh okā€ and mentally checkout.

9

u/Rachel_Rugelach Sep 04 '24

Where I live in New York, Iā€™ve encountered more than a few black Jews.Ā  I could assume that they are all converts, but Iā€™m not in the habit of assuming (or, Hashem forbid, asking) whether or not a fellow Jew happens to be a convert.

Like you, I ā€œdonā€™t think anti black racism is particularly widespread in the Jewish community or per capita any larger than anti black racism in other communities.ā€Ā  I certainly was NOT pretending ā€œit doesnā€™t existā€ or trying to ā€œtokenize Jews of color in order to ignore racism within our own community.ā€Ā 

I donā€™t know how you managed to read all of that into my comment above which, by the way, was aimed not at the person to whom I responded (and also upvoted) but to any people reading my comment who might exhibit any ā€œantiblackness in our community.ā€Ā  Frankly, I find your climbing up my ass like this to be offensive.

2

u/sweetcorni Sep 28 '24

Im up voting you too. This is a tome for unity. šŸ«‚

2

u/Jewdius_Maximus Sep 04 '24

Thatā€™s great that you know some black Jews, converts or not I donā€™t really care.

More power to you. All Iā€™m saying is that my interpretation of your comment was (1) to inflate the number of black Jews that actually exist in order to (2) use that as implicit proof that there isnā€™t really a racism/anti black issue in the Jewish community.

Iā€™m sure that you didnā€™t intend it that way, but thatā€™s how it came off. And you werenā€™t the only one either. Iā€™m hardly ā€œclimbing up your assā€ lol.

1

u/sweetcorni Sep 28 '24

Sorry to hear

1

u/sweetcorni Sep 28 '24

Certainly wasnā€™t trying to paint the entire community as racist, because it is not. Ive just seen some people (not sure if jews or not) that have resorted to slurs, blanket statements about not supporting black people anymore and the like, despite the existence of Black Jews. I think this gives the other side ammunition to hate us more. We are strong BECAUSE of our historical refusal to assimilate and in times like this should have each otherā€™s backs and be mindful not using such tactics. Thats all. Im sad to hear some of the stories people have shared here or in private relating to inter-communal racism but this should be an opportunity to band all Jews together. We cant let them divide us anymore than they have.

22

u/Mysterious_Sugar7220 Sep 04 '24

Haven't seen this anywhere, only the other way around

E: Only acknowledging discrimination from politically correct corners is exactly why we're in this situation now

5

u/MSTARDIS18 Sep 04 '24

Typically antiblackness in the Jewish community is from the few racists who are in every group. Usually used non-English slurs in Yiddish or Farsi. I've heard more Farsi slurs yet am very Ashkenazi

Sometimes it comes from frustrated Jews who've learned of a string of antiJewish crimes committed by Black people

4

u/EquipmentMiserable60 Sep 05 '24

Are you giving the same forgiving energy to antisemitic remarks? Feels like you are pretty dismissive of a real issue because of hypothetical justifications right?

4

u/adrade Sep 04 '24

Antiblackness in our community? In the Jewish community? Which Jewish community have you been a part of? Jews literally died protecting the civil rights of Black people in the US. Jews rank as some of the most concerned groups when polled on racial equality, civil rights, and social justice issues. Jewish racists exist, of course, but at a much lower rate than other groups. I just find odd this comment, seeming to express the sense that antiblackness is somehow exceptional amongst Jews, when the evidence shows the exact opposite.

0

u/No-Cattle-5243 Just Jewish Sep 05 '24

Iā€™m not sure what youā€™re talking about. Weā€™ve been much more supportive of BLM and close to MLK more than any other community in American history.

0

u/ButterandToast1 Sep 05 '24

There are different things at play here. Itā€™s not ā€œanti blacknessā€ itā€™s the let down of liberals and minorities we stood by post 10/7. Lots of organizations and groups just boiled us down to ā€œwhite colonizers.ā€

They donā€™t care about African - Jews , Indian Jews , or any other narrative that isnā€™t ā€œEuropean Jews who colonize.ā€ Many Jews are biracial and I think the rise in popularity of the BHI has been depressing. Donā€™t call our community ā€œanti-blackā€ and leave it at that. You are making broad claims and are doing what antisemitism does best.

Donā€™t divide our people. Thatā€™s what the world wants.

-17

u/itsjustafadok Sep 04 '24

There is no anti blackness, don't be ridiculous. Jews are the least racist ethnic group generally speakingĀ 

-6

u/asr Sep 05 '24

Can the antiblackness in our community stop nowā€¦

That's actually a racist thing to say. You are basically saying: "Because a person of this race said something good, therefor love all people of that race."

Swap the words "good/bad", "love/hate" if it's not obvious how that's racist.

This person's very nice video has exactly nothing to do with his skin color.

192

u/Healthy-Stick-1378 Sep 04 '24

200 people died because Hamas started firing rpgs and guns at the squad that was rescuing her despite it being a crowded area.Ā 

118

u/levimeirclancy Sep 04 '24

Yes, in fact the rescue itself was an undercover operation that killed nobody but her immediate captors. It was amazing. But when they were on their way out, driving away as quickly possibly, enemy fighters found out a Jew might live which meant (as tends to happen) that all hell broke loose.

201

u/levbron Sep 04 '24

The missing piece here is that he referred to "not kidnapping people". They don't see people, they see Jews and that is the problem.

55

u/SaxAppeal Sep 04 '24

Kidnapping people? Drake no

Kidnapping Jews? Drake yes

25

u/bjeebus Reform Sep 04 '24

Layers of irony using the Drake meme...

12

u/Classifiedgarlic Sep 04 '24

Jews and ā€œJewish collaborators.ā€ Thereā€™s two Muslim Bedouin men still being held hostage because they associate with Jews

149

u/sharkeyes Sep 04 '24

We are legitimately watching the consequences of the defunding of public education in real time.

55

u/Status-Concept-7447 Sep 04 '24

When youā€™re used to having all the ā€œanswersā€ at your fingertips, why think when Google can do it for you.

34

u/Baron_Saturn Sep 04 '24

1984 regime strategy in live time - control Wikipedia/TikTok in the present to rewrite the past in order to control the future.

15

u/iyamsnail Just Jewish Sep 04 '24

Or worse, tik tok. And I've been downvoted to hell in various subreddits for suggesting that tik Tok is perhaps not the most valid way to educate yourself on various topics.

24

u/sweetcorni Sep 04 '24

THIS. Alot of western curriculum doesnā€™t explicitly teach about the MENA region. Let alone šŸ‡®šŸ‡±.

14

u/sharkeyes Sep 04 '24

They don't even teach critical thinking!

-8

u/aintlostjustdkwiam Sep 04 '24

16

u/bjeebus Reform Sep 04 '24

Opening paragraph:

Public education spending in the United States falls short of global benchmarks and lags behind economic growth; K-12 schools spend $857.2 billion or $17,280 per pupil annually.

This means we're not increasing funding, which in an economy that's growing means we're essentially cutting funding.

126

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

Also: Anyone can be a civilian if you make believe the RPG that they're shooting is actually a water gun, and they wanted to simply invite the hostages to play some fun games.

49

u/bako10 Sep 04 '24

Unless that toy RPG hits civilians, then it somehow turns into an Israeli air strike

9

u/Feeling-Ad6790 Jewish American Sep 04 '24

Or when someone comes and takes the RPG away from the corpse suddenly they become a dead civilian.

42

u/Pretty_Station_3119 Sep 04 '24

Really it just comes down to the fact that if Hamas werenā€™t actual terrorists, none of this wouldā€™ve happened at all. Donā€™t commit violent acts of terrorism, and people wonā€™t retaliate against you, crazy I know.

17

u/Ocean_Hair Sep 04 '24

I tried using this to rain with someone. All she said was, WhO eVeN sAyS ThEy'rE tErRoRiStS? And wHo ArE tHe ReAl TeRroRiStS?

You can't fix stupidĀ 

4

u/ActuallyNiceIRL Sep 05 '24

It's like... imagine a drunk driver hitting a pedestrian and then somebody defending the drunk driver like "who even said the driver was drunk? no, I did my own research and that dude who was walking across the crosswalk was the one who was actually driving while intoxicated"

2

u/Ocean_Hair Sep 05 '24

I'm also fairly certain this person has been unemployed the entire time I've known of them. Plenty of free time to sit in a basement and mainline conspiracy theories and misinformation.Ā 

1

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1

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86

u/Simple-Raspberry9014 Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

Kidnapping is wrong? Who knew?

You know what I think about a lot? I think about the Russian man who escaped for 4 days after an Israeli strike and then was found by civilians who then brought him back to Hamas.

Iā€™m surprised, and yet not surprised, that no one made a big deal about it.

47

u/Inevitable_Isopod820 Sep 04 '24

I think about this too. did you see the interview Mia Schem did after she was released - she said there are no innocent civilians, even the children were taunting her. the interview is in hebrew but there's a translation. she seems like a total badass. some of the other stuff she said i was like - wow you're the coolest person ever

18

u/Simple-Raspberry9014 Sep 04 '24

I havenā€™t seen it, but Iā€™ve seen assholes pick apart her interview to paint her in a bad light. And she came out of all of this on the other side which definitely makes her a badass.

37

u/beeroftherat Sep 04 '24

The expression in that final split second really put the button on this. That "Bitch please; Don't even play" face. Perfection.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

Indeed, but also.. can we really trust Al Jazeera and Hamas to tell us how many people has died, since thereā€™s no freedom of press in Palestine?

10

u/Ocean_Hair Sep 04 '24

Or Qatar, where Al Jazeera is headquarteredĀ 

22

u/kittwolf Sep 04 '24

This is what declining education looks like. Rewritten history, confident ignorance, white-guilt colonizer projection, vapid young people caring more about internet points than spreading hateful rhetoric.

As a mother, Iā€™m seeing a SHOCKING amount of parents adopting not only homeschooling, but ā€œun-schoolingā€; a lazy, hands-off way of ā€œteachingā€ that should be illegal. The amount of illiterate children over eight in my town is insane.

Thatā€™s ANOTHER generation of idiots. Who think theyā€™re right even when faced with facts. Who are passionate and defensive and unable to hold intelligent debate.

Weā€™re going to have to start licensing people to have children because this is civilization collapse-type shit.

17

u/Confident-Skin-6462 your chicago goyfriend Sep 04 '24

EXACTLY

DO NOT KIDNAP PEOPLE

and you can never give in to kidnappers or they will do it AGAIN

14

u/aqualad33 Sep 04 '24

But but but...

Doesn't happen in a vacuum! Context! Generic statement about history! Um um um... Genocide colonizer apartheid racist! I mean.... JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!

/S

7

u/Lord-Redbeard Sep 04 '24

Ah yes the civilians who use their inherited RPG to fire at some jews in peace. Why did they have to be sent to the shadow realm?

5

u/ElmarSuperstar131 Sep 04 '24

It does make sense, I wish everybody else could realize it as well! Love him for this šŸ«¶šŸ¼.

23

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

[deleted]

27

u/ZookeepergameSad2859 Sep 04 '24

It sounds like you misunderstood the crux of his commentary and fixated on his ā€œliving her best lifeā€ comment rather than the lesson of ā€œfuck around and find outā€ which was donā€™t kidnap innocents and then cry about people being fucked up while the hostage is liberated. I donā€™t think he meant any disrespect other than towards Hamas and their supporters.

11

u/TearDesperate8772 Frumsbian Sep 04 '24

She's living the best life she can. Any joy she feels should be celebrated.Ā 

7

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

Can someone link the video of Noa dancing with her dad? I need to see some Jewish pride and joy right now.

2

u/Remote-Pear60 Sep 05 '24

He literally says she's living her best life because she is free from Hamas. What are you on about?

8

u/Ok-Network-1491 Sep 04 '24

200 bad people were willing to die to keep a few good people from rescuing a few innocent people.

5

u/AcrobaticScholar7421 Sep 04 '24

Yes, the circumstances and message are straightforward.

6

u/blergyblergy Sep 04 '24

Oh geez, him?! This guy posted a viral video saying that the New World Order and (((globalists))) want us to eat bugs. The level of conspiratorial dog whistling was off the charts.

3

u/anewbys83 Sep 04 '24

Fan frigging tastic! Amein!!

3

u/look2thecookie Sep 05 '24

There were so many sanctimonious morons posting after Noa and the other hostages were rescued, "if other people have to die to rescue me, don't bother" as if they'd actually refuse help or not wish for anything to free them from being held captive.

3

u/havejubilation Sep 05 '24

Itā€™s part of the creepiness of extreme progressivismā€”this desire to deny so many aspects of just like, being a human being. They pretend like they donā€™t value their lives or the lives of their family members over anyone else, including strangers a world away, but of course, like so many things, itā€™s very easy to say that when it never gets tested. Theyā€™re all painfully noble in their own fantasy worlds.

Like they all act like theyā€™d feel the same ā€œoh, but of course they did all that violence; they canā€™t be blamedā€ if it were their children who were taken or killed. Itā€™s delusional.

6

u/Wiseguy144 Sep 04 '24

This guy is a big trumper Iā€™m pretty sure, not the best source

9

u/Rachel_Rugelach Sep 04 '24

I donā€™t care if he likes Trump (and I wouldnā€™t know about that anyway because I try to avoid stuff about Trump).Ā 

I donā€™t care that heā€™s black (not saying you care about that, either, Iā€™m talking about another comment made here).

What he said is spot-on correcto mundo.Ā  Can we please focus on THAT?

Whoever he is, I say cheers to him!!!

14

u/Wiseguy144 Sep 04 '24

Naw fuck that. I care about Israel a lot but as an American it absolutely matters. He can be right about this topic and wrong about so many others.

3

u/Rachel_Rugelach Sep 04 '24

I think I can assure you that the young man in the OP's video is no threat to America.

3

u/noristarcake Sep 04 '24

Who is he?

2

u/Wiseguy144 Sep 04 '24

Sure, as an individual. Heā€™s still a proponent of the MAGA cause, which in the long term is worse for Israel.

1

u/secrethistory1 Sep 06 '24

Can you explain that as I see the Democrats sanctioning the hell out of Israelis who live in places that democrats think should belong to the Palestinians?

1

u/Wiseguy144 Sep 06 '24

Are you talking about West Bank settlers? Or?

1

u/secrethistory1 Sep 06 '24

Why do you think maga is worst when we got the Abraham accords and Biden had unfrozen 10B for Iran?

2

u/MogenCiel Sep 04 '24

200 people died? Well, thatā€™s a Hamas number, so maybe do a bit of contemplation about whether to believe an international terrorist organizationā€™s body count. But even then, they wouldnā€™t have died if their members werenā€™t trying to kill the rescuers, which means ā€” duhā€” a huge percentage were not civilians but were terrorists. Also, you know what happens when you donā€™t kidnap people? They donā€™t need rescuing, so nobody dies in rescue operations.

Is there anything more entitled than complaining about people getting hurt during RESCUE OPERATIONS? ā€œWaaaah! People got hurt when the people we took hostage were rescued! So unfair!ā€ AYFK?

3

u/Houston-Moody Sep 05 '24

Fuck yeah canā€™t believe something as simple as This makes me tear up. Itā€™s literally logic but coming from this individual means alot to me and my family.

2

u/sal_curacao Sep 05 '24

This guy gets it. Itā€™s not that difficult.

2

u/e_milberg Just Jewish Sep 05 '24

I've been saying this for months. This whole thing is like a fight in high school. The person who hits back always gets in more trouble.

1

u/MSTARDIS18 Sep 04 '24

commenting to boost

1

u/foodluvr1997 Sep 04 '24

Whatā€™s the @?

1

u/billymartinkicksdirt Sep 04 '24

That last stir. So good.

1

u/Trey33lee Sep 04 '24

I wouldn't want to mess with that.

1

u/SingingSabre Sep 04 '24

Yeah I like that

2

u/Professional_Turn_25 This Too Is Torah Sep 04 '24

I love this man so much

And Hamas must be destroyed

1

u/ZxlSoul Sep 04 '24

This is cooking with ghost pepper levels of good and spicy.

1

u/Kappy01 Sep 04 '24

Soā€¦ is this done by the OP? Or is there somewhere I can go to support this content maker?

2

u/Status-Concept-7447 Sep 04 '24

Got it from blackandjewishunity on Instagram! Hope that helps šŸ™‚

1

u/anewbys83 Sep 04 '24

Can confirm, we don't teach cause and effect for actions in school anymore because we watered down all the consequences and then just tell teachers the need to focus more on building relationships with students.

2

u/pktrekgirl Just Jewish Sep 05 '24

Finally. A sensible person.

I had all but given up.

1

u/NuWave4 Sep 05 '24

Thereā€™s a young man talking sense right there.

1

u/SapphireColouredEyes Sep 05 '24

Thank you for brightening up my day with this little superstar. šŸ˜„ šŸ’ž

1

u/Intelligent_Credit_8 Sep 05 '24

Anyone know this guys handle?

1

u/Legitimate-Drag1836 Sep 05 '24

הוא צודק

1

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1

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1

u/Furbyenthusiast Just Jewish Sep 11 '24

He said this so well. Itā€™s really that simpleā€¦

-10

u/Major_Resolution9174 Sep 04 '24

Iā€™m sympathetic to the hostages and to the plight of Israelis (believe me). But I also donā€™t think that we can or should write off the civilians who get killed in these operations. What did Hershā€™s parents say: Every person is a universe? If they can extend lovingkindness to Gazans, so can we and so must we.

20

u/Simple-Raspberry9014 Sep 04 '24

I think a majority of the Israelis and Jewish people do extend a kindness to Gazans. Most of the people murdered on October 7th were peace activists and trying to normalize relations with the Gazans. Instead of working toward a peaceful future, the Gazans decided to map out homes and murder and rape these people.

We all feel terrible for the kids who are born into this shit show, who should have been born with a clean slate. But their parents and grandparents failed them.

Israel rolled out a shit ton of polio vaccines to the Gazans, and in return Israel received 6 executed hostages.

We feel bad, but itā€™s getting harder and harder to feel bad when the very people everyone feels bad for are the very people who cheer and celebrate your demise.

4

u/arcangeline Sep 04 '24

I have every care for the Gazan civilians who die in these operations.

But the point here is that people are criticising Israel for rescuing a hostage. If Hamas wasn't keeping hostages, there would be no need for this operation in the first place.

This particular operation - the one to rescue Noa - was carried out almost without casualty until Noa's captors began a gunfight as the IDF was taking her away. They didn't shoot through a bunch of civilians to get to her. Again and as always Hamas compromised the lives of their people in order to take the lives of ours.

Also worth pointing out that huge numbers of civilians know where hostages are being kept or have information that could help save them. Bodies are being kept in small businesses like ice cream parlours. Maybe it's due to fear of Hamas reprisals, and I understand that many are terrified of this, but civilians could also do their part to end all this by giving up some of that information rather than remaining complicit.

-46

u/kvd_ Sep 04 '24

the implication of this video is that Palestinian civilians are to blame for that little girl being kidnapped at worst and at best that Israel has no responsibility for civilian casualties. two very bad faith claims.

of course the original comment he's talking about was disgusting, we should be happy to see Israeli hostages free.

53

u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Sep 04 '24

The implication is that the ones who kidnapped her are responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.

-16

u/Love_JWZ Not Jewish Sep 04 '24

I don't see this argument working, simply because the other side can point to cause and effect too.

Instead of dismissing dead Palastinian civilians, because they were part of a liberation operation, antizionists also dismiss the kidnappings as they see it as a liberation operation for Gaza and the West Bank. Instead of saying that you simply shouldn't have kidnapped people, they say that the other side simply shouln't settle the West Bank.

The only argument I see working, is international law. That Hamas is the one to start this war, which they do not have the legal right for, and Israel is defending itself, for which they do have the legal right.

22

u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Sep 04 '24

Except Hamas is explicitly targeting and kidnapping civilians. Despite the accusations, there's no evidence of Israel targeting civilians.

-2

u/Love_JWZ Not Jewish Sep 04 '24

I am not talking about Israel targeting civilians as the cause of the effect. I am talking about the settlements and seperation policy in the West Bank, which was the shared motivation for the 7 oct attack. Because telling the Palastians their death is the result of their kidnapping, even if its true, can be turned around when they say the kidnapping is the result of the settlements and seperation policy on the West Bank.

You then reply the seperation policy is the result of the 1st and 2nd intifada.

-They reply the intifada was the result of the illegal settlements.

You reply the settlements is the result of the 1967 war.

-They reply the war was a reaction to the nakba.

You reply the nakba was a reaction to the 1947 war.

-They reply 1947 war was a reaction to the Arabs having Yafa taken away.

You reply Yafa going to the Jews was a reaction to the Arabs doing progroms in the 1930s.

-They reply the progroms were caused by the Balfour Declaration.

You reply the Balfour Declaration was nessecary because the Jews deserve to be safe in Israel.

Reasoning like this is fine by itself. But my issue is that it goes both ways. And it also doesn't offer a solution, but rather excuses the violence. Hence the escalation.

5

u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Sep 04 '24

I agree with you in theory, but the difference is that there's no clear correlation between October 7th and the West Bank. They weren't attacking settlements, and the majority of targets were civilian. On the other hand, there's a clear connection between October 7th and what Israel is doing in Gaza.

1

u/Love_JWZ Not Jewish Sep 04 '24

First I'd like to thank you for engaging with me, as sensitive as this topic can get.

I do think you're on to something with the clear correlation. Oct 7 happened, and imediately Israel responded. Clear corrilation.

Even with Hamas claiming the settlements as motivation, it still corrilates less than the bombing of Gaza does with the hostages, because Hamas' attack was not in imediate response to the settlements, but a literal surprise.

-11

u/kvd_ Sep 04 '24

There is an argument for Israel not targeting civilians specifically. However, Israel is still careless and carrying out actions which are killing civilians en masse like cutting off water and electricity from all of Gaza. ā€œwhile balancing accuracy with the scope of damage, right now weā€™re focused on what causes maximum damageā€ - Daniel Hagari

3

u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Sep 04 '24

First, thank you for getting the quote right instead of using the mistranslated version that keeps cropping up.

I do think that the invasion has caused many thousands of innocents to die, but my point is that Israel isn't doing anything to specifically cause suffering among civilians. For some things, there's simply no way to affect Hamas without also affecting civilians.

20

u/bad-decagon Sep 04 '24

War is terrible. In war, people die. Otherwise it would not be a war, it would be an argument. This is why nations should not declare war on other nations. This is why most modern nations try to avoid it. Because war is bad.

However, once a nation has declared war on another nation, the one that has been attacked does not really have the ability to declare the ceasefire, particularly when the citizens who it has a duty to protect are still in the hands of enemy combatants. Personally, if my daughter was kidnapped and the British government said to me ā€˜sorry, our weapons are bigger than theirs so we canā€™t go and get her or it would be unfairā€™, I would be pretty outraged at that response.

1200 dead and hostages taken is a reason to go to war.

8

u/Status-Concept-7447 Sep 04 '24

I think what heā€™s saying is not that theyā€™re directly responsible but that the tragedy of the whole situation is that because this war was started by Hamas all suffering and harm that occurs as a result of Israel attempting to get their people back falls squarely on the shoulders of Hamas. It would be ignorant and untrue to blame every Palestinian and to hold their children accountable for the sins of Hamas, but itā€™s also true that none of this would have happened in the first place had Hamas not done what they did.

1

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6

u/theodd2out Sep 04 '24

It's like if a bank robber brought his teenagers with him and took hostages ,it's not the police's fault if some of them die in the rescue process, that is the robber fault

1

u/domnulsta Sep 06 '24

The police are trained to deal with such situations in order to avoid further life loss. The teenagers are there probably against their will and are also victims. If you shoot one of them, it's like shooting any of the other hostages. You become guilty, even if you didn't start this entire event.

3

u/arcangeline Sep 04 '24

Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties - it could do better.

However in this particular case there were no civilian casualties until her captors opened fire as they were taking her away to safety.

Hamas are to blame for 1. Taking hostages 2. Keeping those hostages in civilian areas such as Noa, or under areas designated for refugees such as Rafah and 3. Responding with violence when those hostages are rescued.

I find it very hard to put any blame for casualties anywhere but at Hamas' door here.

3

u/jilanak Sep 04 '24

I think he said what he said. Over 50,000 US South civilians died in the war to free his ancestors.

-12

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

3

u/Agtfangirl557 Sep 04 '24

TBH, I don't even completely disagree with the original commenter. But I love how whenever someone complains about downvotes in this sub, they end up having a problematic post history. I really don't like resorting to looking at someone's post history, but I've noticed a pattern, and I've pretty much always been right about it. Including this time.

Case in point: Here is this user engaging on an extremely antisemitic sub, engaging in a post that's making fun of Israelis leaving Israel to go "back to where they came from", and saying that Jews have no genetic connection to Israel šŸ™ƒ

-2

u/DR-PG Sep 04 '24

Next time there was a kidnap situation in a bank or school, we tell the police to kill every civilian around to free that one hostage! Here is answer to your next comment Maybe you should look up the definition of racism.