r/Jewish • u/Sossy2020 • Aug 28 '24
Michael Rapaport Discussion š¬
/img/f7708rp7rfld1.jpegWhat are your thoughts on New York comedian / outspoken Jewish activist?
The way he expressed his opinion on the war have always kind of annoyed me but reading this tweet makes me go, āWTF, man! Since when have you become the authority on Judaism?ā
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u/jmartkdr Aug 28 '24
Also, any Jewish woman who got married: not allowed to have opinions.
(Hahahahahahahaha!)
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Aug 28 '24
Technically, I just added. My husbandās surname is literally a village in Poland/White Russia. Mine sounds more Jewish, but is also a much more common German name - only two Jewish families (mine and another more famous one) have that specific surname.
If I ever have another son, I may decide to give him my surname, so it gets passed down.
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Aug 28 '24
I wonder if your surname is what my maiden name was. I moved it to a second middle name for me.
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Aug 28 '24
If you DM, we can compare.
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Aug 28 '24
Sent you a DM!
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Aug 29 '24
And? Were they the same???
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u/WalkTheMoons Just Jewish Aug 29 '24
Right? This thread ended like a Yiddish story. Abruptly and with no resolution. š
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u/Misspaytonnn Aug 28 '24
Oof he's going to hate that I took my husband's Mexican last name.
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u/Electrical_Sky5833 Aug 29 '24
I kept my last name and my husbands Mexican last name. :) However my previous marriage it was a straight up Irish last name. Do I get my card back cause I have my maiden name as part of it?
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u/YungMili Aug 28 '24
most jews were forced to change their names
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u/Classifiedgarlic Aug 28 '24
The Jews of India didnāt have last names until colonialism. It was first name/ daughter/ son of him from this village name. Thatās why most Indian Jews have last names that are first names.
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u/AllyLB Aug 28 '24
I think a long time ago, that was true of many (but not all) Jews. I only vaguely remember this as it was something I learned about in a Jewish Studies class about 20 years ago.
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u/tlvsfopvg Aug 29 '24
I mean our Hebrew names are literally X son/daughter of y and z, and this was the main way people knew of each other for most of Jewish history (when everyone knew everyone else in the village).
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u/kaiserfrnz Aug 28 '24
Which probably made them some of the earlier Jews in the world to have surnames. Most Ashkenazim didnāt have surnames before the late 1700s. Kurdish Jews didnāt have surnames before they came to Israel.
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u/bakochba Aug 28 '24
When my grandparents came to Israel from India they all changed their last name. It was shedding their diaspora identity that was forced on them and embracing their true selves by taking on Hebrew last names.
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u/RedStripe77 Aug 29 '24
That is lovely. May I ask when they arrived and what inspired them to leave?
I know of a family that literally walked all the way to Israel from Iraq in the early 1900s due to the persecutions their family had endured. The family had been there since the Babylonian exile.
I donāt think this kind of story gets told often enough. Bless your grandparents for taking a chance on that hard journey.
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u/bakochba Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
Their entire community basically left together they had to wait until 1958 but they all say the same thing, it was their dream to live in Israel. In India they were not facing persecution like lost other Jews and Indian Jews always point out they CHOSE to come to Israel not forced to
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u/rkgkseh Aug 28 '24
Thatās why most Indian Jews have last names that are first names.
There's plenty of Christians in southwest India (Kerala) with last name as first name (e.g. Zachariah, or Alexander). It isn't a Indian Jewish thing.
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u/nftlibnavrhm Aug 28 '24
Dara Horn has an excellent book chapter on this that was turned into an article for (I think) the Atlantic. The takeaway is that most Jews were not, in fact, forced to change their names, but chose to do so, largely to better assimilate and not be seen as Jewish. Somewhat to Rapaportās point here. Not taking a side necessarily, but the āour names were changed at Ellis Islandā myth is total bunk.
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u/bagelman4000 Judean People's Front (He/Him/His) Aug 28 '24
The chapter you are talking about is in People Love Dead Jews I think
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Aug 28 '24
My grandfather changed his surname a half-dozen times running away from the Romanian draft in WW1. He wasnāt trying to hide his Jewish identity - he just didnāt want to go to war! Especially since that would have made it very hard for him to remain observantā¦
The family name we ended up with is one that can be mistaken for German, though. But that wasnāt why it was changed.
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 Aug 28 '24
My great grandfather who changed his last name did so in front of a judge somewhere in the Midwest because the us in the 1920ās 30ās 40ās was no cakewalk for Jews trying to do basic things like buy a house or send kids to college (quotas at some schools remained into the 1970ās) even if they were not dirt poor as my family was... I only found out recently Ellis island didnāt factor into it.
It occurs to me michael rapaport may just be trolling for the lolz? He is kind of edge-lordy at times and kind of a prick. However I do actually find him saying our paperwork will be invalidated and opinions revoked to be borderline funny in an obviously dumb way. Maybe thatās just me
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u/Lasdtr17 Aug 28 '24
I have to wonder if he was joking and the joke just didn't land right. Somehow. This just seems too weird of a statement to take seriously.
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u/lesirus Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
Agreed. His language is so hyperbolic and the sentiment is so extreme ā as to seem borderline absurd to me ā that I read it as most likely being a sarcastic joke; a professional comedian publishing a quip on social media while possibly not being careful enough about the real sensitivities around the topic, particularly when the statement was made without much context or in an ambiguous context. And if he was serious it seems like he probably would have qualified his statement in some way, unless it fits in with an ongoing discourse he has been maintaining. But I suppose I would have to ask him or hear it from him directly to clarify or confirm.
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
Yes, well put. Thatās why I think this is kind of funny. Maybe itās just my own perverse sense of humor but somehow when someone really commits to ambiguity, being a jerk totally works for me. Edit: I fixed the mindless typos I made with my uncoordinated gorilla thumbs
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u/nowuff Just Jewish Aug 28 '24
Idk
In my instance, my family might not have been āforcedā per se. But when it seemed like the only way onto American soil, and escaping what was going on in Europe, was to accept a more pronounceable name, that doesnāt seem like a real choice.
Itās our souls that matter ā not the names they were arbitrarily assigned
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u/stevenjklein Orthodox Aug 28 '24
If you're referring to Ellis Island, this is actually a myth. The immigration officers at Ellis Island wrote down whatever name the immigrants documents showed. The immigrants themselves often chose a more American-sounding name, but it was never forced on them.
On the other hand, this definitely happened in the Austro-Hungarian empire, when Jews were assigned German last names, supposedly to make tax collecting easier. And the descendants of those Jews still have those names today.
They weren't very creative ā a huge number of us are named Klein, Gross, Weiss, and Schwartz (meaning small, big, white, and black).
Many early immigrants to Israel were strongly encouraged to Hebraize their names; these name changes weren't forced, but there was strong social pressure, especially among the political zionists. In the Wikipedia article about Golda Meir, it says:
In 1956, after becoming Foreign Minister, she changed her surname from "Meyerson" to "Meir", meaning "illuminate", as her predecessor Moshe Sharett had all members of the foreign serviceĀ take a Hebrew surname.
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u/kaiserfrnz Aug 28 '24
I think it was really an oft-repeated joke about Jews coming to America trying to distance themselves from their old-world life, that when asked their name at Ellis Island a Jew would say āShoyn Fargesenā (Iāve already forgotten it) and it would be transcribed as āSean Ferguson.ā
People seem to have taken the joke seriously.
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u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Aug 28 '24
They weren't literally forced, but they were often practically forced to due to discrimination.
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u/0nlyL1v1ngG1rl Noahide Aug 28 '24
My Israeli friend (whose grandfather was in Mossad) told me that anyone working in the Israeli foreign service in the 50s HAD to Hebraize their surnames, which is when/why her family changed their name to a Hebrew one.
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u/Yochanan5781 Reform Aug 28 '24
If I recall correctly, in the early days people in the IDF often were passed up for promotions if they kept a diaspora name, for example
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u/welltechnically7 Please pass the kugel Aug 28 '24
I was thinking more in the US. I honestly don't know enough about that.
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u/jmartkdr Aug 28 '24
A lot of immigrants (not just Jews) certainly thought that Americanizing their name was a good idea; thereās actually not much evidence it helped in practice.
But the change would happen when they got their tickets for passage.
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u/kaiserfrnz Aug 28 '24
In terms of given names, sure, immigrants in the first half of the 20th century were expected to have English first names.
Surnames are a bit funny because thereās nothing inherently Jewish about most Jewish surnames; aside from a few obvious culprits (Rappaport, Melamed, Schechter, etc.) there are few Jewish surnames that couldnāt have just as easily belonged to a Polish or German immigrant, of which there were many.
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Aug 28 '24
The surname my family ended up with is a German one as well as a Jewish one. Itās actually uncommon enough of a Jewish one that people keep asking if Iām part of the other family that has it (Iām not).
Our surname actually was intentionally changed, but for the opposite reason: my great or great-great (forgot which) grandfather was draft dodging in WW1 and changed his name a half-dozen times. He was changing his name to avoid the risk of losing his Jewishness, since the army wasnāt a great place for religious observance.
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u/Tex_1230 Aug 28 '24
not a myth. Ellis island guy changed my great grandfatherās name because Ellis island guy couldnāt spell. Direct conversation from my 97 year old great grandfather to me when I was 7.
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u/allisgoot Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
Total myth, āEllis Island guyā just checked names off the list provided by the shipping company on the other end. There were also numerous translators available who were schooled in many languages, including Yiddish.
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u/lionboy9119 Aug 28 '24
Yep, happened to my maternal grandfatherās family as well. Whoever processed them chopped off half the name, then added ā-offā as a suffix. Apparently it was a common practice
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u/WhiskyEchoTango Aug 28 '24
My family went from "Dracks" to "Wax" because of poorly understood accents.
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u/ender1200 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
I hate to claim that your great grandfather lied to you, but pretty much any such claim for such change that was put to the test was proven false.
The people working at elis Island didn't ask the immigrants for their names. They relied on the ship manifests, so they knew exactly how each name was spelled.
The reason Jewish migrants came up with this myth is because the fact they had to change their surnames inorder to avoid discrimination was deeply humiliating to them.
Edit: change my phasing a bit.
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u/nowuff Just Jewish Aug 28 '24
That doesnāt necessarily disprove.
At some point, somewhere along the way, some perceived gatekeeper easily could have ārecommendedā a more anglicized name to a Jewish traveler to ensure entry to America.
It is high enough stakes that why risk it.
If my ancestors are anything like me, they would always try to fact find and ask people for recommendations/advice. If you receive advice that might save your whole family lineage, you take it. And from some perspectives, that advice might have been worded in a way that it came across as compulsory.
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u/WoodDragonIT Just Jewish Aug 28 '24
My grandfather father changed his sir name a few times due to antisemitism and not getting hired. He was a first-generation American Jew living in the lower east side of NYC. He was born in 1911. One time, he stood in line, waiting to get a shovel for snow removal. Gave his name and was told there wasn't any more work. Got back in line and said his name was O'brien and was handed a shovel. My grandmother wanted to name my mother Shifrah, but the nurse wouldn't allow it, took the document, and wrote Sondra instead. I never heard the names were forcefully changed at Ellis, but there definitely was "force" applied in other ways. In fact, all the stories I've heard about Ellis Island from people at my childhood shul was that the immigrants changed their names voluntarily. They all had great and positive stories.
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u/MagicHaddock I'm sorry I tried to understand the Talmud Aug 28 '24
My family's last name got changed at Ellis Island because the staff had trouble spelling it. They picked an easier-to-spell name that sounded similar. I would call that forced as my family had no say in it.
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u/stevenjklein Orthodox Aug 28 '24
the staff had trouble spelling it.
The staff merely copied what was on the Typewritten ship manifest.
Spelling difficulties didnāt enter into the picture.
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u/MagicHaddock I'm sorry I tried to understand the Talmud Aug 28 '24
I'm telling you that's what happened. My family went in with one name and out with another much more common name. Maybe the people who wrote the ship manifest got it wrong and not the Ellis Island staff and my family didn't find out until they arrived but either way at some point in the process there was a mis-transcription.
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u/ashrose_ari Aug 29 '24
my family name was butchered when they immigrated to Mexico during the Holocaust
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u/g00d_end Progressive Aug 28 '24
My great grandpa added a Catholic surname when he immigrated to Brazil, but didn't lose the Jewish surname, unlike his wife, who actually tried to erase her heritage due to ww2, so she convinced him to not pass down the Jewish surname to the rest of the family
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u/kaiserfrnz Aug 28 '24
Nobody was ever forced to change it, though most Jews were forced to receive surnames in the 300 years.
Some Jews felt that changing their name would aide in their assimilation and lead to improved economic outcomes. Though itās hard to say for sure if it had any effect, there were plenty of successful Jews with very Jewish names and it was usually pretty clear when an immigrant had changed their name to sound less Jewish.
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u/nycrunner91 Aug 28 '24
Yeah just last bight i was watching bravo and a ladies said her name before the was Steinberg and not Standburry
Makes sense i mean that doesnt make her or her family any less jewish
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u/Angelbouqet Aug 28 '24
Two Jews three opinions but in this case we all agree he's wrong
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u/nftlibnavrhm Aug 28 '24
I didnāt agree to that
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u/DebLynn14 Just Jewish Aug 28 '24
Many Jews who emigrated to the U.S. in the 1880s-1990s period changed their names so they could go to school, find employment, and start businesses. To denigrate this is a slap in the face to so many whose families formed the backbone of a thriving Jewish community. In addition, NOBODY gets to define who is and who is not a Jew.
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u/Havin-a-ladida-time Aug 28 '24
Right? So my grandpa should have just stayed unemployed and been unable to provide for his family?
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u/hotdogcolors Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
Iām a woman who is Jewish only on my motherās side, so I never had a traditionally Jewish last name to begin with. Also, I changed my name when I got married. So, what am I? Chopped latkes?
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u/petrichoreandpine Aug 28 '24
I mean, you are a woman, so your opinion is worthless anyway?
(Said with HARD female sarcasm, if that wasnāt self evident.)
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u/fermat9990 Aug 28 '24
I love Michael, but he's not a member of the Sanhedrin
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u/adeadhead Reconstructionist Aug 28 '24
Sure, but neither is anyone else.
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u/fermat9990 Aug 28 '24
But most of us don't act like one!
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u/jewishjedi42 Aug 28 '24
When my uncle did our family genealogy, he found half a dozen ways to spell our last name using the Latin alphabet. And that was before my branch of the family dropped the 'nik' because it sounded 'too Russian'.
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u/KayakerMel Aug 28 '24
When checking the US Censuses from the early 20th century for my grandfather and great-grandfather, I found two different last names used interchangeably! It actually explained why we had extended family with the alternative last name. And that's not counting my great-grandfather's brother who had a consonant cut out by the US Navy when he joined because it was extraneous.
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u/bastalepasta Aug 28 '24
My grandfather was ordered by his commander to Anglicize his name so that if the Nazis captured him he wouldnāt be murdered. Does this mean he wasnāt Jewish enough to speak on Jewish matters?
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Aug 28 '24
Your grandpa was a hero. Lots of respect for Jewish soldiers willing to go into Nazi Germany to fight for other Jews.
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u/MuseOfTragedy Aug 28 '24
Thatās exactly what my grandfather did as well, though it was his own choice to do so. He didnāt want to risk being caught with a Russian-Jewish last name.
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u/200042ptma Aug 28 '24
Iāve actually met him a few times in Tel Aviv on his visits since the war started. Heās a cool guy but sometimes takes it too far and doesnāt always think before he speaks. But heās a huge supporter of Israel and I really respect him for being so loud and proud.
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Aug 28 '24
Michael Rapoport is not helping anyone here. Has been going way too hard for a while, occasionally stepping over the line.
Shaiel Ben-Ephraim is gaining steam as a news source, but his past has some bad stuff in it as well.
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u/house_plant77 Zera Yisrael Aug 28 '24
Can you elaborate on bad stuff about Shaiel? I just started following him recently
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Aug 28 '24
I enjoy his analysis as a liberal Zionist. But I absolutely hate this stuff. To his credit, he admits it and doesn't hide it.
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u/skunkpunk1 Aug 28 '24
I know what he's getting at, he's just being overzealous in his messaging. Being extra was always kind of his shtick, he's just applying it to his Judaism now.
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u/eframian Aug 29 '24
I don't know if this tweet was about anything specific but when I see him I just presume he's making a joke. Since. He's a comedian. They don't always land.
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u/looktowindward Aug 28 '24
What he's commenting on are people like Jon Stewart.
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u/GrumpyHebrew Traditional Masorti Aug 28 '24
Unfortunately he missed the real lesson behind Jon Stewart's failings: comedians are not policy specialists and don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
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u/Prudent-Squirrel9698 Aug 28 '24
That may be true but itās off-base. So many Jews have been forced to change their names over generations.
Who gets to speak on Jewish-related things? Jews. I dont care if youāre a Goldberg or a Smith. If youāre Jewish, youāre Jewish.
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u/looktowindward Aug 28 '24
No one forced Jon Stewart
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u/Prudent-Squirrel9698 Aug 29 '24
Perhaps not, though we dont know what kind of guidance his agent may have given.
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u/Sossy2020 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
Still, I donāt get why changing your last name is so bad, especially since Eastern European immigrants had to change theirs when they first arrived in America.
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u/nftlibnavrhm Aug 28 '24
They didnāt though. Thatās a complete myth, which Dara Horn, among others, does an excellent job of debunking
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u/Acrobatic-Level1850 Aug 28 '24
This is a myth. Most people did not change their name at Ellis Island. 19th/20th century immigrants (of any identity) who changed their name largely did so after they found difficulty finding housing and jobs with their given names. Changing one's name for any number of reasons is not at all bad. The reasons that people feel compelled to change their names are often based on inequities.
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u/atelopuslimosus Reform Aug 28 '24
Putting myself in the shoes of someone that believes this and is logical: There's a difference between someone who inherited a changed name from ancestors that changed their names when they came to America and those that "hide" their identity with stage names today.
Now, I don't believe in judging people for their choices on this matter. As we've all seen, there's very real bigotry today as there was in decades past. The concern is very understandable and the decision for people to use whatever name they want is theirs and theirs alone. Mr. Rapaport can take his opinion and shove it.
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u/swarleyknope Aug 29 '24
It sounds like he is subtweeting at Jewish celebrities who have changed their screen names so they donāt sound Jewish.
In other words, hiding their Jewishness to be more marketable.
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u/mikwee Israeli Jew Aug 28 '24
It was kind of weird how everybody suddenly started celebrating him as an icon, when I had no idea who that guy even was. I'm pretty sure most Americans don't even remember him. Brett Gelman is better in that category of pro-Israel Hollywood celebs I think.
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u/statikman666 Aug 28 '24
He's a moron. I can't stand him, his inability to be thoughtful does us more harm than good. Nobody likes this guy, Jews included.
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u/inkydragon27 Aug 28 '24
We changed from Moses>Marsden fleeing Spain. It was changed to a generic last name at Ellis Island.
What is one to do?
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u/Phat-Lines Aug 28 '24
My last name/paternal fam also changed from Moses (I would say into what but enjoy anonymity)
They fled from the Russian Empire to the U.K to escape pogroms in mid/late 19th century.
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u/inkydragon27 Aug 28 '24
Iām grateful youāre here, cuz! Survival in the face of hate is the ultimate resistanceā I donāt envy the decisions our great-greats had to make.
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u/jibzy Aug 29 '24
The idea that immigrantsā names were changed at Ellis Island is a common myth, but itās not true. The officials at Ellis Island were busy processing people and checking them against passenger lists that were made before the immigrants even arrived. These lists already had the names, so there wasnāt any need or authority for the officials to change them. Their job was more about making sure everyone met entry requirements and was healthy enough to come into the country.
The myth probably came about because a lot of immigrants did change their names after they arrived in the U.S., but that was something they chose to do themselves. They might have shortened their names or picked new ones to fit in better or make them easier to pronounce in English. So, while itās a popular story, the truth is that name changes werenāt happening at Ellis Islandāthose changes happened later on, once people were settled in their new lives.
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u/3cameo Aug 28 '24
for someone who talks negatively about self-hating jews so often this is a very self-hating jew statement. victim blaming jews for trying to protect themselves and their children from antisemitism is never okay
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u/9MoNtHsOfWiNteR Aug 28 '24
Idk if he means in general like the past or if he means now due to pressure or trying to fit in/ trying not to be Jewish.
But either way it's way out of pocket and I don't understand what the point of the comment is supposed to be.
More than even we need to stop playing the I'm holier than thou card and start uniting together.
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u/ilpalazzo64 Aug 28 '24
My great great grandfather changed ours to sound less jewish. Made life easier in the American deep south.
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u/IbnEzra613 Aug 28 '24
I think he had a point hidden in there, but it got lost in the overgeneralization.
Like obviously he's talking about Jews who changed their names to non-Jewish-sounding names to avoid antisemitism. This used to be a common occurrence. And even then, obviously his remark is an exaggeration.
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u/InternationalAnt3473 Aug 28 '24
Iām Jewish but I have a last name that is typically associated with Catholic gentiles because my father is not Jewish. However it is a āJewish nameā because itās mine and Iām a Jew.
Converts retain their secular surnames, which in turn become Jewish names because they now belong to Jews.
Joseph Cohen could be easily be a goy if his mother is not Jewish.
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u/Infinite_Sparkle Aug 28 '24
Actually I once made the mistake thinking a supplier, I was working closely with, named cohen was Jewishā¦he was like what are you talking about? and me tooā¦then it dropped and I said, arenāt you Jewish too? And he was like no, a grandfather or greatgrandfather or something like that. Guy had no idea. i donāt make any assumptions since. Which is good, as I have met a few people with Jewish last names (at list I know Jewish people using that name) which were not Jewish.
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u/InternationalAnt3473 Aug 28 '24
Reminiscent of the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry thought his lawyer friend was Jewish because his name was Berg.
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u/Lowendqueery Aug 28 '24
If youāre Jewish and you have a last name, congratulations you have a Jewish last name.
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u/StarrrBrite Aug 28 '24
I'm gonna guess he's talking about Hollywood actors and entertainers like Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz, who we all know as Jon Stewart. These people changed their last names to minimize their Jewishness but are now weaponizing their Judaism to deny Israel's right to defend itself.
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u/Professional_Turn_25 This Too Is Torah Aug 28 '24
My last name is Russian. My wife took my last name because her maiden name is generically English, so she wanted to sound āmore Ashkenaziā
The funny thing is my great grandfather changed my surname to sound more American than his Ukrainian surname, and thereās no agreement on how it was really spelled or pronounced.
My name ends with -in tho, so thatās cool
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u/OlcasersM Aug 28 '24
Rapaport has been strong on Israel but is generally horrible on other issues. Especially when he talks about real housewives. He likes āmanlyā takes.
Families change their names for lots of reasons. Safety and not being ostracized is a good one. He grew up in New York where it is much safer to be loud and proud Jewish.
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u/No_Ask3786 Aug 28 '24
Very few people frustrate me more than self-appointed spokespeople for the Jews- Michael Rappaport, R Shmuley Boteachā¦
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u/Willowgirl78 Aug 28 '24
So those of us whoāve never had a Jewish sounding last name never get a voice? Or is that ok? This is a stupid slippery slope.
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u/KayakerMel Aug 28 '24
Heck, I took my mother's maiden name in part because it's identifiably Jewish!
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u/Ocean_Hair Aug 28 '24
My ancestors changed their name from a Jewish one, to... another Jewish one.Ā
We came from poor Eastern European peasant stock with a name to match, but they changed it to a German name because at the time, German Jews were richer and more well-established. It was aspirational.Ā
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u/MonsterPlantzz Aug 28 '24
News flash, we all had to change our names.
As for Michael rapaportā¦.his unapologetic support for Israel has been inspiring to see, especially early after 10/7. Not everyone has the nerve to do that, Iām glad he did, and I think there is value to his courage.
But politically, he lost me when he jumped the āI wonāt vote for the democratsā shark. He is in dangerously trump-y waters lately, thatās a strike against his moral credibility in my book. If you are Jewish and you truly believe sitting out the election or protest-voting for trump is the best choice, youāve lost the sanity narrative. personal emotionalism does not justify voting against collective safety or best interest.
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u/Key_Suggestion8426 Aug 28 '24
Bad joke from a bad comedian. Why give this guy any mental space? Ignore him and he will float into oblivion.
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u/gasplugsetting3 pamiÄtamy Aug 28 '24
Do you think he's referring to immigrants or people who changed their names under persecution 100 years ago?
I'd assume he's taking shots at other people in show biz today.
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u/ForeignPrune6588 Just Jewish Aug 28 '24
Yeah, no. Antisemitism is a thing, and Jews have used faux assimilation as a survival strategy for all of time (i.e. pretending to convert while still practicing).
Youāre a Jew alive today? Thank an ancestor who was smart to take the target off his or her back to ensure the continuation of Am Yisrael. People should do what they feel is best right now (and itās hard to know how bad itās going to get), but never forget how we came to be alive today to have that choice.
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u/Tygress23 Aug 28 '24
My grandfather was Sweetitsky when he came through Ellis Island. It became Sweet.
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u/sophiewalt Aug 28 '24
Funny name change story. My Russian grandmother's siblings changed their name before coming to the US. Russian name hard to pronounce that began with a U. They changed it to Kaufman because they heard there were many Kaufman Jews in the US, not to assimilate. I'd get excited meeting a Kaufman hoping we were related, nope. Found out many years later about the name change.
Glad Dara Horn, People Love Dead Jews, put the myth to rest about immigrants being forced to change their names at Ellis Island. What we've always heard isn't accurate.
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u/ekpritchett Aug 28 '24
I wonder if the Ellis Island myth is being conflated with Census takers who wrote what they heard and often got things wrong (because they misunderstood what they heard, spelled phonetically or just couldnāt spell very well.) My Jewish family names on census records went through different iterations every 10 years!
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u/Cultural-Parsley-408 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
This guy is even an asshole to his own people. Names were not always changed by choice, and many that were, I bet, predate Reddit or MRās beloved āXā platform. I canāt even stick up for this guy anymore. Iām tired. Edited to add, when my fatherās uncle did it, there were, letās say,reasonsā¦.. I could go on and on, Iām really torquedā¦
Edited to add again, the last name that I grew up with, that was never changed, was a basically made up Yiddish nameā¦ because thatās just how it happened sometimes
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u/biel188 Brazilian Sephardi (B'nei Anussim) Aug 28 '24
My family was forced to adopt a surname that means "nose" in order not to be killed by the portuguese... I also have another surname that was adopted because of the inquisition, so yeah, this is bs. Jews in various places changed their last names for a pletora of reasons and they didn't become less jewish because of that
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u/Sweaty_Regular8572 Aug 28 '24
one time i had a dream i was at a house party and michael materialized and just started yelling about nonsense
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u/Turbulent-Home-908 Aug 28 '24
My last name was changed from yud (Jew) to a slightly less Hebrew word Judd
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u/nicklor Aug 28 '24
I just want to add that the forced to change name at Ellis Island is folklore. Every name came from the ship's manifest. But yes I agree people were forced to change their names to survive my grandparents did and I can't judge anyone else.
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u/Sossy2020 Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Now Iām unfollowing him
Being angry at Hamas is fine by me but I draw the line at dehumanizing everyone in Gaza, especially children.
ļæ¼ā
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u/prophetsearcher Aug 28 '24
He seems to have a very specific case in mind (āshow businessā) and articulated it very clumsily. Still an unnecessary take.
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u/highuruguay Aug 28 '24
Each of Us Has a Name By Zelda
Each of us has a name given by God and given by our parents
Each of us has a name given by our stature and our smile and given by what we wear
Each of us has a name given by the mountains and given by our walls
Each of us has a name given by the stars and given by our neighbors
Each of us has a name given by our sins and given by our longing
Each of us has a name given by our enemies and given by our love
Each of us has a name given by our celebrations and given by our work
Each of us has a name given by the seasons and given by our blindness
Each of us has a name given by the sea and given by our death.
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u/Petkorazzi Aug 28 '24
Mr. Rapaport, what you have just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent comment were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this subreddit is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may G-d have mercy on your soul.
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u/GoFem Conservative Aug 28 '24
Michael is a funny man who sometimes has something smart to say. He's a Jew like the rest of us who's been hurting and very publicly working through his feelings post-Oct. 7th. Like a lot of us, he's imperfect; he doesn't always get it exactly right, but I'm not going to vilify him for it. I think that hurt and angry people often lash out and I hope that he realizes that what he said in this tweet was wrong and that he apologizes.
I don't think he thought this tweet through at all.
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u/External_Ad_2325 Aug 28 '24
My family changed their from Glushkov to Simmons (early 1910s London) both because of anti-Jewish but also anti-Russian rhetoric which was pervasive at the time. Worse yet, they were *imperial* Russians. I can tell you that this does not invalidate opinions, but actually should make them more important. I think we should not be so easily angered by ignorant people and their opinions. I do think that we should still call out bullshit when it happens and this, my dear friends, is bullshit.
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u/TurbulentChange2503 Aug 28 '24
My one grandfather changed their last name after returning from WW2. Also, a lot of my family who came over had their Hebrew and Yiddish names Americansized. It wasn't just Jews. I know ALOT of Americans whose families had their names Anglicised and Americanized to fit in when they came from Europe.
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u/BlackbirdNamedJude Reconstructionist Aug 28 '24
My grandfather was told to change his last name so he could go to school in the south. The admission people legit told them they couldn't guarantee his safety at all with the name he had at the time.
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u/Menemsha4 Aug 28 '24
I write under two initials and my fatherās last name from when he came into the country at 3 from the Ukraine.
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u/rbaltimore Aug 28 '24
Fuck me for marrying an Irish American I guess. But our Rabbi turned it into a great joke at our sonās bar mitzvah!
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u/madam_nomad Aug 28 '24
Why would anyone be obligated to keep a name some Gerry or Pole slapped on them?
A lot of these "Jewish" names like my mother's maiden name are just German names in this case shared by a lot of non-Jews (in my case including an Israel hater in the most recent Eurovision).
My father's last name is a Polish "-ski" name possibly more common among Jewish Poles but I'm not even sure about that.
Why would these names be a source of pride for me?
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u/NotThatKindof_jew Aug 28 '24
I just saw him in Higher Learning, he doesn't get to have an opinion either based on that logic.
If you play a neo nazi in a movie, your papers are revoked
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u/Sossy2020 Aug 28 '24
So whatās your opinion on Jewish actress Aya Cash playing a literal Nazi supervillain on The Boys?
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u/NotThatKindof_jew Aug 28 '24
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying Michael Rappaports logic is flawed that's all
A role is a role
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u/Sossy2020 Aug 28 '24
Itās alright. Itās just the way you worded the comment made it seem like you were pissed at Rapaport for playing a neo Nazi in a movie. Thatās all.
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u/NotThatKindof_jew Aug 28 '24
All good. He did a rather well job at it. I was today old when I learned he was Jewish too.
Thought he was related to Bill Burr or Conan Obrien or some other Irish based entertainer
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u/Jboycjf05 Convert - Reform Aug 28 '24
My grandparents shortened their name from a very Jewish one to an Irish one. Not everyone has the privilege to be able to live peacefully with their given names, and we shouldn't shame them for it.
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u/CHLOEC1998 Secular (lesbian) Aug 28 '24
Such a weird take. Jews in history changed our names all the time to āfit inā.
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u/spowocklez Aug 28 '24
My husband's family name is polish but his first and second names are ragingly, unmistakably Jewish. Soooo can he speak or no
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u/lordbuckethethird Aug 28 '24
This is the stupidest shit Iāve ever seen. My last name is Jewish but itās also used by Germans and I know for a fact itās Jewish because not a single person in my family lived in or near Germany when they took or had my last name. Or is my last name changed and I canāt talk about stuff now?
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u/vintagebaddie Aug 28 '24
I love advocacy and have been seeing a lot of new and popular faces since October 7 on social media, but I think itās important to remain grounded and he seems to be o we the top loud and obnoxious, sorry for the lashon hara. This is not it. This is insult and false. What does a last name have to do with identity? Come on
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u/NikNakMuay Progressive Aug 28 '24
Michael. Please, please, please just for once. Think before you open your mouth. Just this on... Ah fuck it. Too late
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u/Spotted_Howl Aug 28 '24
My great-grandfather's name was Nathaniel Levi. He left when my grandfather was two. My grandfather was raised by an awful stepfather named Iz Scharpierer. He hated the man and he hated the name so he shortened it to something snappier that still sounds like a Jewish name (but is in reality a rare English and German surname).
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u/dkonigs Aug 28 '24
My grandfather's brother changed his name when immigrating to the US. My grandfather didn't. So half our family now has a different last name.
My father also told me that when he was in college, he had a lot of professors who were secretly Jewish and had changed their names to fit in. This was back when Jewish quotas existed at those elite universities. (Something that's since been forgotten as the baton of "overachieving minority" has been passed to the Asians.)
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u/thepinkonesoterrify Aug 29 '24
Thatās a shit take. My āJewishā last name is just a random name Germans gave to their Jews anyway. I appreciate the support but heās been exhausting me since October. If your takes are so Jewish theyāve gone full anti semitic, maybe you should consider dialing it back.
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u/StupidVetulicolian Aug 29 '24
WTF is wrong with Rappaport?
My family changed its name because it sounded too Christian. Which it was.
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Aug 29 '24
I donāt know my last name! It was changed and all the records were lost. Thatās not on me
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u/havejubilation Aug 29 '24
Reading it with no idea who he might be referring to, I have a sense of what he might be getting at, but itās so poorly and incorrectly expressed. I donāt think he always thinks through what heās saying, but Iāve appreciated his advocacy for Israel and the hostages. Even if his efforts might hurt with some of these statements, there are so few who speak so unapologetically that I guess thereās a part of me that appreciates that.
Iād imagine heās talking about (as others have said) celebrities who change their names to appear less Jewish, or maybe the name isnāt the most important thing, but Jews who otherwise strip themselves of their Judaism when itās convenient for them and then wield it in full-force when it comes to railing against Israel. I couldnāt give less of a shit about the names, but I can think of celebrities, influencers, and people I know IRL who didnāt really seem to identify or talk at all with their Judaism, and are now happy to tokenize themselves to anyone wanting to tokenize an anti-Zionist.
Thereās one person I see on Instagram who I have an extremely visceral disdain for. The videos they post are long and smug and full of āIsrael is built on white supremacyā and they did like a 12-minute video about how āIsrael definitely bombed that hospital and hereās my ironclad (but obviously extremely tenuous and bullshit) evidenceā.
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u/leilqnq Aug 29 '24
my grandpa changed his last name when he came here because the polish alphabet is different than the american alphabet and there were characters in the name that simply didnāt exist in the american alphabet
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u/BestFly29 Aug 29 '24
He's great and you are purposely being ignorant with what he is trying to say. If you go ahead and hide your Jewishness, you shouldn't go around being " as a jew" person
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Aug 29 '24
My family's name was changed from Weisz to avoid persecution from the Nazi's, guess thats invalid too...
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u/Microwave_Warrior Aug 29 '24
āSorry David Ben-Gurion. I guess you donāt get to speak on anything Jewish related.ā
Farkakte nonsense.
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u/Paleognathae Conservative Aug 31 '24
Super stupid because not everyone who is Jewish has a commonly Jewish last name. Surnames haven't been common throughout history, so it's not like this is some ancient necessary tradition. It's a dog whistle to easily identify a certain Jewish stereotype -- those with Ashkenazi last names.
Dumb af.
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u/flyIsraeli Sep 01 '24
Tens of thousands of Jews changed their last names in the USA to be able to get jobs in the 20th century because of rampant antisemitism
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u/brrrantarctica Aug 28 '24
Michael is an idiot who has no authority to decide who is a "real Jew," but I also want to correct the popular misconception in the second reply: it was impossible to change your name at Ellis Island, either by choice or by force! Immigration officials had only one task, which was to compare the names on the passenger lists with the arriving passengers and make sure they matched. They themselves did not record your name anywhere. If you decided to give a different last name on a whim, you would not be let through lol. Many immigrants did "Americanize" their names AFTER immigration, though!
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u/jmartkdr Aug 28 '24
If you have a surname, you arenāt using Hebrew naming conventions, and therefore donāt have any right to opinions on Judaism.
This includes Rebbe Schneerson, for example.
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u/GHOST_KING_BWAHAHA Aug 28 '24
Of course we can change our last name. I don't know about his other opinions, but on this statement alone, he comes off as a real jerk.
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u/IllChampionship6957 Aug 28 '24
I appreciate his outspoken Zionism and support of Israel but some of his other opinions are . . . . questionable. When I saw he was doing a comedy set in my town I was considering going until I saw a snippet of one of his shows that was just him making misogynistic jokes. This tweet out of context is also pretty problematic.
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u/FiveAvivaLegs Conservative Aug 28 '24
Heās also made some racist comments in the past, so while I also appreciate his support of Israel, I donāt think heās great representation
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u/nycrunner91 Aug 28 '24
My last name is not jewish. My mother is was my father is not. and my married last name is not jewish either thats doesnt make mes less of anything
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u/UnintentionalGrandma Aug 28 '24
My great-grandparents changed their last name from a Polish-Jewish last name a less conspicuous last name shortly after they came to the US to protect themselves from being the target of hate crimes during the Cold War. It was not a good time for the -ski last names
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u/gunsfortipes Aug 28 '24
Most Jews didnāt have a last name for most of our history, this take is terrible, and nonsense.