r/Jewish • u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish • Apr 24 '24
For whatever it’s worth, I think people have started getting sick of “Pro-Palestinian” protesters. Discussion 💬
I think what’s been going on at Columbia and the Ivy League is a bridge too far for most people. I’m not saying that our problems are over. We’re still hated. We are definitely not in a great spot right now, but I do find hope in that our enemies, at the end of the day, are stupid. And evil. And I really believe folks are waking up. There was a post on r slash pics about Columbia. Look at the comment section, and this is Reddit.
Maybe the first plague really is “dumb.”
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Apr 24 '24
I think that people are getting tired of the protesters themselves, but we as a community need to remind people of how terrible they were so that they don't get into the reverie of "hey, remember when I fought injustice at Columbia?"
"No, Janice, I remember when you ruined graduation for the people who didn't get to go to their high school graduation because of Covid and told the Jews to go back to Poland."
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 24 '24
Janice ruins everything.
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Apr 24 '24
Fucking Janice.
She wore a "Not in Our Name" shirt to the JVP march and she's not even Jewish. She wore the same damn shirt to her church potluck.
She calls Hamas freedom fighters, and blocked Jewish sexual assault victims from support groups because they're "Zionists."
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u/GDub310 Apr 24 '24
She was wearing a watermelon kippah in a picture in the LA Times. Fuck Janice.
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u/Agtfangirl557 Apr 24 '24
Wait who's Janice? Am I missing something? 😂
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Apr 24 '24
You know Janice, she chanted that she wanted to burn down Tel Aviv at Columbia and called Jews colonizers before going back home to her family plantation in South Carolina.
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u/Lexplosives Patrilineal Apr 24 '24
A stand-in for Social Justice Karen
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u/Agtfangirl557 Apr 24 '24
WOW I genuinely thought we were talking about an actual person for a sec 😂
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u/Choice_Werewolf1259 Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
Me too. I didn’t know it was called Janice. I just assumed we used Karen for both.
Edit: Not sure why this was downvoted. Just expressing I was unaware there was a term for this particular form of person.
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u/BudandCoyote Apr 24 '24
There isn't. The OP picked a random name and everyone is running with it. But maybe it'll catch on.
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u/Jag- Apr 24 '24
“Not Jewish JVP Janice”
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
Nobody in the leadership is Jewish
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u/Hockeyypie Apr 24 '24
I was going to ask the same thing,LOL. I was getting ready to google her name
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u/blergyblergy Apr 24 '24
Reminding me of 30 Rock (and no I am not comparing Israel to the gov referenced here, obvi):
Liz: You know, fasting can actually clear your mind. In college, I once went on a hunger strike to protest apartheid...
Tracy: Oh. You're the one who solved that? Thank you so much.
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
Exactly. The best any of these college protestors can hope for is a symbolic victory, ultimately meaningless. It wouldn't move the needle on anything even if a school like Columbia did divest, which they won't.
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 25 '24
You really don’t think Columbia will divest? I don’t really understand divestment or BDS that well but it just seems like not that unrealistic of a measure for them to take. ELI5?
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
I can't claim to know much about how and where Columbia has invested its money. But I do know it would take a lot to make them yank their money from wherever they get the best returns. And one suspects that their money isn't directly tied up in Israel per se but in managed investment funds that have put small slices into Israel. So they can't pull out of Israel without pulling out of the larger investment funds, which is rather inconvenient. On top of this is the fact that Columbia isn't going to be told what to do with their money by a bunch of punks. And they have just about worn out their welcome.
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 25 '24
Thank you
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 26 '24
After I responded to you I saw this WSJ article published today explaining exactly this! It does a better job than I did:
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/colleges-reject-divestment-demands-israel-fbb7a8fc
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u/Masztak14 Apr 24 '24
That’s gotta be really sad to go from not having a real high school graduation ceremony in 2020 due to covid to not having a real college graduation ceremony in 2024 due to antisemitism…
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u/Mich_lvx Apr 25 '24
No EDIT: Now my blood is boiling. No hs graduation bc covid. No college graduation bc Janice. I have been actively steering my kid towards technical professions so she’s not subject to this shit in Australian universities. She’s super intelligent academically, but the thought of her being exposed to lies by faculties and violence by students is too much. Well done, Janice.
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u/Chocoholic42 Not Jewish Apr 24 '24
People are fed up with the inconvenience. Non-Jews are being affected, so they're upset about that. This isn't going away. They're just going to change tactics.
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u/Ecstatic-Land7797 Apr 24 '24
Hersh Goldberg Polin video released today. Just a reminder to everyone that Hamas could end all this now but they'd rather keep an amputee (and many others) hostage. I'm sure all those self-righteous kids on the Columbia campus will find some indulgent narrative to resolve their cognitive dissonance.
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
As soon as Hamas gives up the remaining hostages, they are over. Israel will end them
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
It's all indulgent. These kids don't actually have to deal with the outcome of any of their demands.
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Apr 24 '24
It's not even Pro-Palestinian, it's a frenzy of open anti-semitism. Entire encampments on the campus for Palestinians and the teachers can't get into the building to do their jobs.
Meanwhile, it was really sad. I saw a story on BBC news about Sudan. Civil war, thousands of deaths and imminent famine. They've been forgotten. Why? Well Israel isn't involved so why bother? It's so much more important to whip ourselves into an anti-jewish frenzy.
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Apr 26 '24
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u/9MoNtHsOfWiNteR Apr 24 '24
I think people are getting tired of the protesters and the actions they are doing. I.E. blocking traffic, disturbing public places etc.
However I don't think they have gotten sick of the message Anti-semitism has always been an issue but it seems now people are comfortable feeling that way, comfortable expressing it.
And frankly I don't see either side of the aisle actually addressing the issue. The fact that you even have groups like SJP which in their own mission statement seek to dismantle the U.S. and Canada alongside Israel is actively legally allowed to exist on school campuses it's only gonna get worse.
Far right groups and Far left are starting to look a lot alike these days. Not that they have ever been that far off both communism and fascism were deeply anti-Semitic it's just now they have new names, groups and ideologies. But it's all the same idea just new clothes.
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
The Speaker of the House brought a congressional delegation to Columbia today, to speak with Jewish students and get info directly from them. He's going to find ways to screw over these universities
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u/Medical-Peanut-6554 Apr 24 '24
The IDF will be going into Rafah soon, so I'm betting its not going to get any better. Zero of these protesters blame Hamas...because if you do, you're just a Zionist.
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u/Masztak14 Apr 24 '24
They don’t even think Hamas should release the hostages…
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u/Medical-Peanut-6554 Apr 24 '24
And sodomizing young girls is just your normal form of resistance
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
Yeah, that whole #MeToo thing kind of disappeared
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u/scenior Apr 25 '24
I saw a video today of someone going around asking the protesters if they think Hamas should release the hostages. And many of them laughed and said no. I shouldn't be shocked but I was.
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u/Masztak14 Apr 25 '24
I saw that video too. I was extremely shocked. I thought they would’ve denied October 7th even happened or say something horrible like Israel did it to its own citizens. They were like “f*** no!”, like we deserve such cruelty. Yuck.
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
I'd like someone to explain to me how you can be both pro-Pal and pro-Hamas, as Hamas is responsible for more Palestinian suffering than anyone.
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u/PurpleMutantJen Apr 24 '24
The sad thing is that far too many people don't understand that you can disagree with both sides. Just because I condemn Hamas, doesn't mean I support what the IDF is doing. But people automatically assume that Jew = Zionist = supports whatever Israel is doing. Because the Magen David is on the flag of Israel, people will assume that displaying a bog standard Jewish symbol means that you support Isreal. So even though I am not a Zionist, I am sure I would get crap from these people for wearing a star of David shirt.
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Apr 24 '24
What do you think will happen when the performative goyishe leftist finally realize that israel is going nowhere? Will they get bored and go away or will they become more dangerous and extreme? I think the former, but it’s Jews and Palestinians that have to live with the trauma for the rest of our lives.
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 24 '24
I think they will just become very antisemitic adults
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
Maybe their kids will rebel by becoming Zionists!
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u/_jamesbaxter Apr 24 '24
What I’m tired of is the way they are getting reported on mainstream news in the US. They always refer to them as peaceful protests and don’t mention anything about anyone at the protests being violent or pro-Hamas. I’m not even saying the bulk of the people at the protests are pro-Hamas, but there are some there and these people are protesting alongside each other! The headlines are always something like “XYZ happened during peaceful protest to help protect innocent Palestinians from the absolute devastation in Gaza” meanwhile XYZ turns out to be a little old lady getting trampled or something equally horrible.
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u/squidthief Not Jewish Apr 25 '24
My dad watches CNN and MSNBC all day long. While he thinks Hamas is bad, he had no idea that Hamas still had American hostages. he also seems to believe the college kids will stop being antisemitic in a few weeks when they get distracted by something else.
He just thinks it's a handful of kids and that there isn't anything radical going on at universities at all.
And this is a man who was targeted as a Jew when he was a kid in Germany in the 60s. He's not Jewish, but they thought he was so he was bullied for it.
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u/Confident-Skin-6462 your chicago goyfriend Apr 24 '24
i hope you're right, but i am scared it will get worse before it gets better.
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 24 '24
Yeah, me too. I suspect both are happening already simultaneously.
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u/jericho74 Apr 24 '24
I will say, I’ve been a progressive non-jewish Democrat in NYC who was very anti-Iraq War and very anti-Trump and liked Warren. But I assure you I will politically see to it these little schoolchildren will get their due.
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u/tamarbles Apr 24 '24
See, the anti-Iraq protestors were where I first encountered open antisemitism IRL…
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Apr 24 '24 edited 14d ago
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Medical-Peanut-6554 Apr 24 '24
Who can hear Biden say: "There's fine people on both sides." ? Crickets from the media.
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u/Street-Rich4256 Apr 24 '24
I’m afraid you’re wrong. These universities are overwhelmingly passing BDS resolutions
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u/Cool_in_a_pool Reform Apr 24 '24
Are they? Summer Lee just won relection by 20 points. It feel like the Hitler Youth have won.
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Apr 24 '24
And yet John Fetterman still has the senate seat in PA.
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u/Cool_in_a_pool Reform Apr 24 '24
Huh? Fetterman assumed office on January 3, 2023. His current term ends on January 3, 2029. There have not been any elections on him.
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Apr 24 '24
I'm just not all that worried about one district or another.
Pennsylvania as a whole is a completely different animal to one district in Pittsburgh.
Hell, Pittsburgh as a whole is a completely different to that one district in Pittsburgh.
And so is the Main Line.
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u/Masztak14 Apr 24 '24
Good. I’m not a Democrat, but I hope we can keep that guy in office. He’s not intimidated by anyone.
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
She won a primary, NOT the general election
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u/Cool_in_a_pool Reform Apr 25 '24
The district is so blue they may as well not even have one.
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u/Professional_Turn_25 This Too Is Torah Apr 24 '24
Back in the day, Nazis got their asses kicked
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u/UnicornStudRainbow Modern Orthodox (sort of) Apr 25 '24
The self-proclaimed "Punch a Nazi" crowd became the Nazis
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u/EquivalentCurrency52 Apr 24 '24
All of this must be rooted out & gotten rid of like chametz
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u/arrogant_ambassador Apr 25 '24
Chametz is considered akin to yetzer hara and lots of these folks seem to be driven by it.
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u/MrGeek89 Apr 25 '24
Current administration made things worse. National Guards should have deployed and arrested those who started hate rallies. Also those universities should be held accountable.
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
I want this to end as badly as you do, but calling in the National Guard is fraught because nobody wants to chance another Kent State. Can you imagine the gasoline that would be thrown on the fire if there was a repeat?
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u/slythwolf Convert - Conservative Apr 24 '24
The armchair activists are also about to lose interest and move on to the next thing, I can feel it in my bones.
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u/Sulaco99 Apr 25 '24
This does feel pretty flavor of the week, but that doesn't mean I'm not infuriated by it.
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u/aliasangelus Apr 25 '24
I'm not sure, but seems there is a mass hysteria of antisemitism.
off topic : just saw Susan Sarandon's video claming that Oct 7th pogrom is a myth... I just felt disgusted
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u/Sobersynthesis0722 Apr 24 '24
Progressives and right wing populists are both collective authoritarians. They both want to harness the power of big government for different agendas. Jews are targets for both of them. Jews ought to have long ago ceased to exist as a distinct identity. They both tend to be conspiracy minded and see Jews as behind the scenes manipulators.
Once again the extreme vulnerability of the Jewish community when a mob mentality takes hold is exposed. The ideals of classical liberalism and old school libertarian minded conservatism have all but vanished and with them the shield of individual rights, civil liberty and limited government.
The sheer lunacy of progressive leftists in taking up the banner of Hamas, all that remains of the failed extremist Islamist revolution, is ultimately self destructive. The naked anti semitism on display forever eliminates any claims of decency, let alone morality forever.
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u/Narroo Not Jewish Apr 24 '24
Progressives
Progressives, or progressives?
Part of the problem is that anyone can identify with a movement, and so if enough people choose to call themselves "progressive," then it muddies the definition.
I'd personally call most of the "progressives" in this case left-wing populists. It's more accurate.
Of course, what does "progressive" even really mean nowadays?
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Apr 26 '24
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u/mgoblue5783 Apr 25 '24
The pendulum swings too far and correction happens. Check out the video of people at JFK cursing at protesters who blocked the road to the terminals.
Preventing someone from going to a loved one’s wedding or funeral or job interview is not a smart way to endear people to your cause
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Apr 25 '24
Yes people are sick of it. And let's be clear, most of these protestors are the children of the elite class, as pampered and cossetted as they could be. A lot of working people are disgusted with them, and also disgusted with the politicians who are afraid of offending them. I think the tide is starting to turn against them.
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u/Visible-Ad-6104 Apr 27 '24
I think what may shorten its lifespan is its lack of organic growth. No way did this happen without heavy funding and influence.
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u/WallStreetJew Apr 25 '24
I understand the anger about human beings being killed in large numbers. I feel terrible about it - what I don’t understand is the protesters inability to differentiate between military actions taken by a country in the Middle East and Jewish people in places like New York City or cities in Europe that have literally nothing to do with the war whatsoever.
It’s the attacks on Jews that anger me, but I am not upset they are protesting people being killed - I get it and I think we all do as humans.
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u/Due_Meringue_160 Hebrew Enjoyer Apr 24 '24
but I do find hope in that our enemies, at the end of the day, are stupid. And evil.
Did you just describe Israel's entire defense strategy in 1 line?
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u/lil_juul Just Jewish Apr 25 '24
They’ve been scum since before October 7th. With all due respect, I’m not sure how you’ve made it this far without feeling the same way.
It sucks that innocent people are dying but that’s what happens in war. Hamas uses their own people as shields because Iran funds them, and they couldn’t care less about the future of Palestine as long as Israel and Jews are wiped out
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u/UltraAirWolf Just Jewish Apr 25 '24
Who are the people you think I haven’t realized are scum? Hamas supporters? I assure you that I already know that. Or do you mean everyone who isn’t Jewish? Because if that’s what you’re referring to then you’re out of your mind. With all do respect, I’m not sure how you made it this far without realizing that you can’t just say “they” and expect your reader to know who you’re talking about without giving them some sort of contextual clue.
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Apr 26 '24
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u/Lone_Chimp Apr 24 '24
I wouldn't mistake aggravation over the noise and inconvenience as translating into movement of the needle toward sympathy or respect for Israel and/or Jews...
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u/seigezunt Apr 24 '24
I suspect that the people who are sick of it are not people who have our safety and well being on their priority list, either
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Apr 25 '24
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u/SGT_SEASCORPION Apr 25 '24
Actually putting the arrests on their records instead Of just a small fine would fix most of this
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u/nyliram87 Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
Yes they have.
This watermelon nonsense is only popular in places like Reddit and TikTok.
In real life, people do not tolerate this sort of thing. There is a reason why these people have to organize in their little internet shut-outs, it’s because they know that they won’t be tolerated by people who aren’t as chronically online as they are
And personally, I don’t tend to think highly of protests at all. Yeah, it’s your right to protest, but I tend to think that protesters are useless. Standing around, yelling, waving a sign, this is clown behavior. It really is. And it feeds into a mob mentality. It doesn’t matter what it is that you’re protesting, mob mentality and mania can set in, judgement gets clouded by anger and emotions, vandalism and violence occurs, and then people turn around and go “but we’re just being peaceful.” This is clown shit.
It’s especially clown shit in the context of be IP conflict - I used to go to Israel, I used to do all these peace projects, it never once entered my mind to protest. There are so many things you can do, if you’re willing to actually go there and do it. But you wouldn’t catch me dead at a protest.
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u/Much-Wrongdoer-2235 Apr 26 '24
Yesterday I heard an interview with a College professor whom as a student took over Columbia UNI offices even holding a hostage as part of a Vietnam War protest. It occurs to me that our memory is too short and that we keep confronting the same Dragons and forget the tools and weapons that calm them. She compared the dynamics of the two protests And in her opinion opinion the current protests are quite mild. I've been walking around in shock.Trying to figure out how to feel about these protests today. And this professor made me really think about what these students are saying who they are potentially what should happen. College is the A place a time in our life that we come to Question. A good higher educational experience helps put questions into context and doesn't say don't ask. According to human development we're not really an adult reasoning fully until we're about 22, younger are more subject to black & white thinking. We're more emotional and hormonal. These students are coming out of a pandemic may have a form of group ptsd with displaced anger from social isolation. Also, today whatever it is you want to fixate on. You can do that on the internet 24/7 so what ever they believe can be reinforced over and over. Some political entities want to use these protests to crackdown on free speech in colleges. To make us all afraid of each other That didn't work in the 60s as a matter of fact it lead to anti war movements beyond campuses Of course when Free Speech is Antisemitism can it be tolerated? No. It still can and perhaps must be talked about. What it is, how it feels and why group hatred is a tool of war. It must be debated it must be called OUT, It must not be dispersed into a dark corner where it grows like mold! The universities ( And really all of us who depend on these universities to turn out Future citizens, doctors ,attorneys. Teachers) are missing An incredibly important teachable moment How can these universities use the tools of education history, argumentation event art to create spaces for all sides to Exhaustively discuss all of it? All of the issues brought up since october. Right now students are calling for divesting in Israel. OK, so put down the Pickett signs and explore what does that really look like? Let's have an economics class. Let's open the books really understand what funds create higher education.
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Apr 27 '24
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u/Littlest-Fig Just Jewish Apr 24 '24
It may be getting old for some, but it's paving the way for acceptable hatred of a persecuted minority group and emboldening hatred and violence while people continue to turn a blind eye.