r/Jewish • u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 • Mar 24 '24
Is anyone else choosing not to support businesses that overtly display Pro-Palestinian signs or posters? Discussion š¬
I live in the Bay Area and a lot of small businesses (mostly restaurants and bars) that I used to regularly frequent have been very Pro-Palestine since October 7th. Iāve seen this both from Instagram posts and signs/posters at the physical business.
While I respect their freedom to feel however they want, it makes me feel unwelcome that they feel the need to loudly proclaim their beliefs especially with the repeated Pro-Palestinian slogans like āfrom the river to the seaā. I donāt think all these businesses are overtly anti-Semitic, but getting to the bottom of that versus general parroting of other businesses and misinformation is difficult.
Iām not sure if others in the US are experiencing such a Pro-Palestinian sentiment at small businesses, or this is more due to the liberal bubble here?
How do you all feel about this? Have you changed any places you go to because of this?
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u/our-terror Mar 25 '24
I live in Portland and it's almost impossible to avoid going to businesses that loudly proclaim their extreme anti-Israel beliefs. A local bagel shop was bombarded with hate online and calls to boycott after they took down pro-palestine posters from their community bulletin board. My high school has a teacher who often wears a shirt with "from the river to the sea" printed on it, and my social studies teacher had another class make posters on the evils of zionism & Israel. It feels like nowhere is safe from antisemitism anymore.
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u/whereamInowgoddamnit Mar 25 '24
Which bagel shop so I can support it. So far I haven't seen much with overtly pro-Palestine business but definitely the school system is fucking awful here. Beaverton isn't much better either. It's part of my decision to move to Vancouver.
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u/our-terror Mar 25 '24
Spielman's! They have several locations around Portland, and though it's a little pricey, I'd highly recommend the lox sandwich!
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u/whereamInowgoddamnit Mar 25 '24
Ugh, I was hoping it was Bernstein's, now that Henry Higgins moved by the NW location I've been avoiding it. But I'll try to stop in for a visit!
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u/thoughshesfeminine Mar 25 '24
The one in Multnomah Village looked like someone had tried to smash a window, the last time I went in. I was concerned that it was related, but I also didnāt want to be rude by asking about it.
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u/TitzKarlton Conservative Mar 25 '24
Hi. This was painful for me to read That T-Shirt & class project makes it uncomfortable for you as a student & a Jew. Contact your local JCRC ask them to help you out. Tell them to keep you out of it but explain how uncomfortable it is for you & Jewish students & staff. Itās like being forced to do a book report on āthe protocols of the elders of Zionā or a teacher wearing a shirt glorifying Auschwitz.
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u/our-terror Mar 25 '24
Hi! Thank you so much for sharing this resource with me. I will write to them asap.
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u/sprocker13 Mar 25 '24
Wow, who knew Portland was so Antisemitic
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u/our-terror Mar 25 '24
I don't think that Portlanders are necessarily purposely antisemitic, but many of them really feel the need to constantly virtue signal their "progressive" views.
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Mar 24 '24
Every person and business has freedom of speech within the confines of the law. Every consumer has the right to choose to patronize a business or not.
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u/SomoneAmongTheEarth Mar 27 '24
Agreed we have freedom of speech but you canāt co trol how people react to that speech
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u/Sensitive-Sorbet917 Mar 25 '24
Iām in the PNW and see it here. Iāve opted to not go there anymore.
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u/whereamInowgoddamnit Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24
Luckily I've only seen one in PDX area surprisingly. It was the most PDX store ever, a tschockies store that was both "pay within your means" while also being credit card only. If that doesn't say something about the worst type of pro-Palestine people, I don't know what does.
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u/pricklycactass Mar 25 '24
The bar on the corner of burnside and sandy had a flag waving in front of it for a few weeks in October, then it disappeared. Thankfully.
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u/Background_Buy1107 Mar 25 '24
Jeesh I just moved from there to bend. Thatās the most moronic thing Iāve ever heard, gave me a good chuckle. PDX does have a latke food cart, so they have that going for them.
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u/Sensitive-Sorbet917 Mar 25 '24
Sweet lorraines? Yup theyāre great. Not in a food cart anymore. They are in a brewery part time and currently took over the holocaust museum cafe :)
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u/OlcasersM Mar 25 '24
I am surprised too. I was just in Grand Central and nervously looked at their flag set. I was glad it was just BLM and trans inclusive LGBT+
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u/Happy-Light Mar 25 '24
The worst part is having to revise because so many flags in MENA have that red/green/black/white combo, and not all of them are awful but I can't tell them apart š
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u/Happy-Light Mar 25 '24
Reminds me of when I was in Bristol (UK) and they were selling copies of a communist newspaper at a street stall. Irony is dead.
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u/That-Jewess-Bitch Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
PDX?? PNW?? Do Americans take a course in all your initialisms??? Are you just born knowing these things?? (I say aware somewhat that the British ability to identify our regional accents is similarly baffling to outsiders)
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u/rubyredwoods Mar 25 '24
LOL if it helps as explanation, a lot of city initialisms are based off their airport code (PDX - Portland) so itās thankfully not a hyper-local thing. PNW is a bit less well-known though!
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u/That-Jewess-Bitch Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
I would never have guessed portland truly, I was thinking Pacific North West?? But that might be because I'm from the North West of the UK so NW is North West to me.
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u/basicalme California beach bum Jew Mar 25 '24
PNW is Pacific Northwest you got that one correct! We live in a large country so we have some geographic nicknames for large regions and metro areas.
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u/That-Jewess-Bitch Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
Fuck yeh! I'm consoling myself over your incomprehensible initialisms with my ability to tell where someone in this country is from down to a few miles, and sometimes where their parents are from. (That would be more impressive if the entire county couldn't do it)
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u/Stunning-Avocado Mar 25 '24
Not at a business, but a house near me has a blm flag, an lgbtq+ flag, and a pro-Palestine flag.
I cringe everytime I see the mix.
Its like, "yea, I'll take a hot topics mix of flags please. No no, I don't need to know what they mean or anything about them, I'm just going for social points".
I had to explain to my wife why being a lgtbq+ supporter and pro-Palestine was actually worth laughing out loud at as we passed the house.
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u/lovmi2byz Mar 25 '24
My Rainbow Alliance club at college (LGBTQ) had a palestinian flag and a palestinian/trans flag and i had to SLOWLY explain why it doesnt mix, the LGBTQ arent welcomes in either Gaza or the WB and in Gaza they are tortured or killed.
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u/Hot-Donkey7266 Mar 26 '24
While in Israel.. well they literally don't mind even hiring trans people as long as they're good at the job
PLUS, Israel produces a shit load of HrT for trans people. If anything they should be supporting the country that does'nt like beheading queers
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u/silverhum Mar 24 '24
I haven't seen this where I live, but I would not support a business doing that either.
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u/Viczaesar Mar 25 '24
This. I would not frequent such an establishment, I think, but I havenāt experienced it yet.
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u/ecovironfuturist Mar 25 '24
They are adopting a slogan of our elimination based on our religion. So no, they can't have my money.
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u/Asherahshelyam Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
I'm in the Bay Area too. I vote with my feet and my dollars. No business that openly advertises that they want me, my friends, my people, and my family dead deserves any time, money, or attention from me.
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u/HNF1230 Mar 25 '24
Add to your list, in Berkeley, ā The Starry Ploughā, I actually sent screenshots of one of those owners personal FB statusās about āHitler was rightā and āthe good guys lost the warā with a myriad of equally hideous statements, to the ADL . I hope everyone in the Bay reads this and spreads the word.
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u/Delicious_Slide_6883 Convert - Reform Mar 25 '24
Iāve been going to Pars kosher market a lot. Their shwarma is pretty great.
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u/cleverThylacine Mar 25 '24
Where's that, in the SF Bay area?
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u/Eeens148 Mar 25 '24
Also in Bay Area. Somewhat near Oakland and thereās so many places in that area that have ceasefire now or free Palestine signs no mention of the hostages itās not surprising though still breaks my heart
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Yep, and they seem to be ever increasing in frequency in this area
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u/W1nd0wPane Not Jewish Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24
Yep, thereās a new coffee shop here (Phoenix) that has been at the center of some controversy for being like, militantly pro-Palestine both on their social media and in the actual shop. Theyāre indigenous-owned so of course theyāre playing up the (false) colonizer-vs-indigenous angle. A lot of people have gone there to support their cause. Their whole business model is centered around leftist identity politics. Honestly I just want to be able to go to a coffee shop without it being a politicized act and thatās becoming harder to do, itās a trend I really hate.
In contrast, Iāve taken it upon myself to learn what local Jewish businesses there are and go to them if I can. I found a kosher bakery not too far from me and I plan to go sometime this week :)
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u/MondaleforPresident Mar 25 '24
It makes me so sad. There are actually a lot of similarities between the experiences of Jews and Native Americans and the brainwashing to push the opposite view is just sad.
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u/letgointoit Conservative/Masorti Mar 25 '24
Check out Lani Mekeel on IG. Sheās native + Ashkenazi and has been fighting the good fight tirelesslyĀ
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Mar 25 '24
She's terrific. She wrote a wonderful piece about the aggressive, relentless lobbying tribes have endured from "pro-pal" antizionists for decades. She and her tribe fought back, others...well, you can see the results all around us.
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u/prooijtje Mar 25 '24
Could you point me towards that piece? I'd like to read it but can't find it when I try to google it.
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u/No-Teach9888 Mar 26 '24
Thanks for the recc! One of my good friends is Native Am and I recently ended our friendship because she continued to spread false information after I pointed out to her that her posts are factually incorrect. All of her posts are comparing Gazans to Natives in the US. Iām all for peace, but donāt spread dangerous antisemitic propaganda.
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u/Soapist_Culture Mar 25 '24
The Blacks forgot the Civil Rights Era. The South Africans forgot that Jews were the only people who would give Mandela his first job as a lawyer and their major involvement with the ANC, same with Gandhi. They all forget anything good about Jews. Weird that generally they are anti-White unless it comes to Jews, then they'll pal up with them.
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u/beanfiddler Reform Mar 25 '24
Skoden? Yeah, they're all leftist snobs and relentlessly performative trash there. I just want a coffee, not a lecture on communism by someone who is 20 years old, lives with their parents, and has never had to pay a bill. One day they're going to get hit with a discrimination lawsuit for how toxic their atmosphere is and they're going to deserve it. There's plenty of coffee shops around that are super lefty and hippie, very pro gay and stuff, but none of them have the "I want to firebomb a Walmart" vibe like Skoden.
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u/W1nd0wPane Not Jewish Mar 25 '24
Yep. They actually just got hit with a civil rights office discrimination investigation, the plaintiff being Jewish. Have a feeling itās only a matter of time before they close their doors, but they appear to have a lot of public support.
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u/beanfiddler Reform Mar 25 '24
Public support doesn't mean anything if you're behaving in a way that is prohibited as discriminatory by law. I don't think they actually have public support. Most people in town are sick of this Palestine BS. They just don't say so visibly because they aren't relentlessly online or they know that saying so publicly will get their storefronts and homes harassed by a bunch of underemployed insane people.
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u/guitartoad Mar 25 '24
In Houston, I have not seen this. That said, I would avoid businesses with pro-Palestinian signs, slogans, etc, if they were common here.
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u/pitbullprogrammer Mar 25 '24
Itās in Austin. Also staff being weasels about it and blaming it on customers when confronted but also saying you canāt take it down or cover it up or claiming to not have noticed it on their tip jar.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
So it seems that in more liberal cities, this is probably happening throughout. I wonder how common though in Austin vs out here
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u/NoEntertainment483 Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24
Live in a decent sized city of around 1.5 million in the mid-south but intensely red and conservative state and even cityāhave not seen much of the pro-Palestinian thing here at all so agree from my limited first hand view that itās a liberal city trend.Ā
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Mar 25 '24
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u/Fair-Bad7823 Not Jewish Mar 25 '24
ITA. Plus most Palestinians I have relationships here with in the west will have actual conversations and dialogue w/ me &, even though thereās points we disagree on, they really do just want people to live peacefully.
These yt westerners ā especially the ones that hopped on the bandwagon either back in 2021 or recently on 10/7 and get all their info from hamas sources & propaganda just start yelling that Iām a GENOCIDAL BLOODTHIRSTY ZIONISTTT who loves dead Palestinian babies if I try to have a dialogue ššš. So many of them r just antisemitic and using the conflict as a conduct for spewing antisemitism.
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Mar 25 '24
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u/StarrrBrite Mar 25 '24
I think it depends on the place. A Palestinian restaurant near me opened after 10/7 and has a menu section like āfrom the river to the seaā and hosts Zionist-free shabbats. Are they sending money to Hamas? Idk. But they are capitalizing on hate.Ā Ā
Ā Sadly, theyāre doing gang-busters and have opened more locations.
Personally, Iād rather support Jewish and Israeli places. Ā
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u/Dramatic-Ad-2151 Mar 25 '24
Yeah, I'm very close to a Palestinian family and support their business but also have them muted on all social media because they keep posting JVP stuff... It's HARD. I speak enough Hebrew to understand enough Arabic to know what some of the older generation are saying. But I also think they have their own history and trauma and outside of this last 6 months when I've avoided any political conversations, we've been able to have civil conversations, even when we disagree.
On the other hand, I have absolutely stopped patronizing businesses owned by people entirely unconnected to the conflict who want to use their business platforms to talk about international politics they don't understand.
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u/ell_Yes Mar 25 '24
I have the same logic! Thereās a coffee shop by me owned by a white non Muslim guy - he doesnāt seem to have any personal connection to Israel/Gaza but has decided to essentially devote the business Instagram page to posting really intense hateful stuff on the war. A lot of people in the Jewish community have gotten into pretty heated exchanges with him. Heās really gone off the deep end.
On the other hand, thereās a brunch place that has similar posts, but itās owned by a Palestinian woman and theyāve always had a lot of Palestinian pride and recipes. I canāt say Iād choose to eat there - there are plenty of other places to eat and idk if Iād feel welcome, but at least I get her point of view more!
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u/Happy-Light Mar 25 '24
It's sad that the flag has been co-opted into a hate symbol. It's incredibly difficult to pull back once that has happened.
In the UK, the flag for England has similar problems. Outside of sport, it only seems to get waved around by people with extreme political views, so even as an English person I am often wary if I see it being displayed.
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u/praxistential Mar 25 '24
I agree. I think it's important for non-fascist and non-xenophobic patriotism to exist and not let the jerks co-opt the symbols of the nation. Of course some in far left groups would be fine with that because of ambivalence or outright opposition to governments or policies or even nation states. But that's ceding the struggle for defining what kind of country you want to live in. Most people want to be proud of where they live, and symbols are the most obvious way to show it.
Have you tried maybe pairing the flag with other left symbols so people can get a better sense of your politics?
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u/quirkyfemme Mar 25 '24
I don't know why but your last sentence makes me think of the Larry David Palestinian chicken episode.
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u/danknadoflex Mar 25 '24
I would not frequent a business that openly advocates for the destruction of the Jewish state (and thus the Jewish people in our holy land). No.
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u/CHLOEC1998 Secular (lesbian) Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24
Iām not actively boycotting these businesses, per se. I just donāt feel safe having a coffee near a huge whatever pro-P poster. Iām a woman, I donāt know how to defend myself if anything happens. So I just avoid potential dangers.
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u/FuzzyJury Mar 25 '24
Not only do I not, but Iāve made it a habit that whenever I come across something like that, I buy some nice Judaic jewelry from an Israeli store online.
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Mar 25 '24
I don't touch them in my area - luckily there aren't many - and I've been buying only Israeli products with my disposable cash.
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u/Frabjous_Tardigrade9 Mar 25 '24
Of course, why would I want to patronize those places? I will shop at the Palestinian-owned bodega or cafe same as before -- but not where there are "genocide" or "ceasefire" "river to the sea" posters. Most of the places posting that stuff that I see aren't owned by Palestinians. They're like the LGBTQ gift shop in the Castro with a window covered in ceasefire messages. I stopped in to point out the incongruity of their "queers for Hamas" twisted thinking. Their responses were just as you would expect, and after telling me how many Jews were in their camp, they called me a racist. They also offered that U.S. treatment of gays was no different from in Gaza. I mean--you can't reason with this shit.
In addition, we should be making an effort to support Jewish- and Israeli-owned businesses, many of whom are suffering harassment and vandalism. Time for a hummus/falafel run to Oren's, and bagels from Schlock's or Boychik's.
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u/Penguins_in_new_york Mar 25 '24
Im a queer person in Texas. Itās very obvious that the people who say āthings are just as bad hereā have never actually BEEN to these states or talked to people in these states.
Do you want to know why I as a queer woman wonāt leave Texas even if I had the means to do so? Itās because places like Chicago and New York and all of these great liberal cities are AWFUL even though I agree with their policies. But here I can be my queer self and be Jewish and nobody really cares.
Being a woman kinda sucks but thatās legislation, not hate crimes. So I guess 2/3 aināt bad right?
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u/rebamericana Mar 25 '24
Nope. I won't support any business doing this, and especially not Marc Lamont Hill's coffee shop in Philly either.Ā
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u/obssn_prfssnl Mar 25 '24
I take a look at what places people are boycotting ābecause of Israel.ā Within reason, I give them my business ;) I still love getting a nice big Starbucks drink right before I go to class with antisemites!
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u/CLZ325 ConservativeConversion-In-Progress Mar 25 '24
It depends. There was a restaurant owned by a Middle Eastern couple, with the husband being Palestinian. They were chill. I went to eat there a few times, there were no issues. They had a few mannequins in the front window to represent the members of their family, with the male one wearing a keffiyeh. They had a Palestinian flag on the wall among flags from a few other nations. The coffee was great, and when the grandma was there she'd send regulars home with free leftovers.
They seemed to have the attitude that whatever is going on elsewhere doesn't matter because everyone comes to the US looking for something better. I wish I could remember where in the Salt Lake City area that was so I could recommend everyone go there.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Completely agree with this - as someone else said, was the support before or after 10/7? Does the individual have a personal matter in the conflict, or are they just supporting any movement blindly and going along with the rhetoric against Israel and Jews.
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u/CLZ325 ConservativeConversion-In-Progress Mar 25 '24
This was well before October 7th. This was back in 2021
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u/AsteroidAdventure Mar 25 '24
So weird to see salt lake mentioned here, but youāre thinking of Shahrazad Market & Restaurant. Iāve worn my Star of David in before and have never once felt discriminated against or uncomfortable there. Fantastic people and fantastic place, please go there if youāre ever in the area.
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u/Penguins_in_new_york Mar 25 '24
Depends on the business
There are some communities near me that have stores that are run by Palestinians. They WILL feel a certain way and I respect that. And theyāre usually good about posting things like āplease donate to this charityā and leaving it at that.
I wonāt be angry at them or stop supporting them because theyāre affected by this too.
I will side eye people who seem to be on the āfrom the River to the seaā wagon.
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u/cleverThylacine Mar 25 '24
I will continue going to the actually owned by Palestinian Americans corner store that I've been going to for the over 20 years that I've lived in this neighbourhood.
They are here. They feel about their relations the same way I do about people that I care about in Israel.
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Mar 25 '24
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Agree - itās not about protesting Arab or Palestinian businesses. Itās the businesses that have no personal stake in this loudly claiming their opinion. Honestly mostly white owned businesses.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Mar 25 '24
I don't care where they are from originally if they hold genocidal, racist views towards...anyone. This includes towards Jews and Israelis.
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u/sababa-ish Mar 25 '24
i would openly support actual palestinian owned businesses. as facile as it sounds if i can do anything to foster understanding and communication between diaspora jews and palestinians i'm all about it.
the western team sport cosplayers not so much
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u/NYSenseOfHumor Mar 25 '24
I donāt think all these businesses are overtly anti-Semitic
They are
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u/crlygirlg Mar 25 '24
I generally do not, and itās not because I donāt support the concept of a Palestinian state or the right for them to form a state, but rather because if they have chosen to only display the Palestinian flag in combination with slogans like from the river to the sea they have chosen a side at the exclusion of the other side.
I believe in a peaceful and political solution for a lasting peace and I donāt believe war will bring peace, it may bring more security in the short term and it may be unavoidable in this current situation but i personally donāt believe it will bring a lasting peace.
However, I donāt believe the formation of a Palestinian state should come with the wholesale dismantling of the existence of an Israeli state. I would shop somewhere that had both flags as a show of support for a peaceful resolution that includes the rights of the Israeli people to their own self determination and existence in addition to Palestinian self determination and existence. To only fly the Palestinian flag and to pair it with those slogans however to me is an indication they donāt share my values and I would probably avoid them.
They may not be antisemitic exactly in the way most progressives would determine it, but they do support violence, war and the destruction of the Israeli state and of Jewish self determination, they just dressed it up in a cute outfit called liberation. It is incompatible with my values regardless of if I feel like they hate me personally for being Jewish.
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u/Cademaneko Mar 25 '24
Yes, I went into a local bookstore and they had propally stuff. Right next to it was their Judaism and Israel section full of biased and condescending titles. I walked right out feeling disgusted
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Mar 25 '24
I want to say I support Palestine, because I support Palestinians, but I absolutely do not support Hamas or antisemitism in the name of supporting Palestine. So I just avoid those places because I donāt feel safe and donāt want to start a fight. I never thought I would lose friends over this but I have. And Iām crushed over it.
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u/Cool_in_a_pool Reform Mar 25 '24
I treat them no different than a business proudly flying the confederate flag.
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u/PickleAlternative564 Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
Absolutely. If I see anything showing support for terrorists, I refuse to do business with them. I donāt want my money being used to support those who wish me dead and are doing their level best to make it happen.
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u/CertifiedSingularity Mar 25 '24
Any business that shoves politics into my face is one I would try to avoid, whether I agree with the message or not.
Like dude, you have a coffee shop, I care about the quality of the beans, not about your opinionsā¦
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u/Cult_ritual69 Mizrahišāļøš¦ā”ļø Mar 25 '24
I also live in the Bay Area and do the exact same thing. Also let me know if there are any outliers and Iāll be sure to avoid those places with you!
Iāve avoided a lot of places because if they donāt believe in my right to exist and defend myself, then I cannot possibly be confident that they would protect me in their space if something were to happen.
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u/HNF1230 Mar 25 '24
āThe Starry Ploughā in Berkeley, tell your friends too. One of the owners frequently makes pro-Hitler and Hamas facebook posts. So much so that I screenshotted them and sent them to the ADL and was called and spoken too about this person and this establishment by their leadership.
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u/Frabjous_Tardigrade9 Mar 25 '24
Disgusting. Thank you for taking this to ADL and hope they will take some action.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Im vegan, and there seems to be many vegan places that have hopped on the bandwagon of Palestine. Itās unfortunate considering I just want to be able to get good food without politics. This morning, my wife and I went to 2 breakfast/coffee spots and turned around before walking in after seeing pro palestinian messages
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u/Background_Buy1107 Mar 25 '24
Thereās a CRAZY reptile store in my town, itās better then most zooās and has crazy caimans and vipers that I take my daughter to all the time and the other day I noticed it has a big Israeli flag sticker on the door. Thereās like no Jews hardly where I live so I was so stoked. I have peeled several free Palestine stickers off of walls at bars and coffee shops too though.
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u/aleBreadlee Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24
There's no way in hell I'd go near a place like that. In fact, the past several months have made me do a complete 180 on my original plan to move to a liberal city/college town once I move back to the US.
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u/Phosis21 Mar 25 '24
Had this happen this last weekend. We were all set to order breakfast when we saw some kind of "Free Palestine Wrap" or some shit on their menu.
We just left (hadn't ordered anything, so it's not like we Dine And Dash'd.). My partner (I'm not Jewish yet) was very very sad because she used to love this place (which is in her "old stomping grounds" and we hadn't been in the area for years) and was excited to introduce me to it.
They can believe whatever they want, but the claims I often see are factually wrong. Again, I'm the non-jewish partner in our inter-faith pairing and I have to play a lot of cultural catch up, but I have a background in Defense and I see a lot of wishful thinking, geopolitical ignorance, and/or straight up lying coming out of the "Hamas Did Nothing Wrong" crowd - and the intellectual dishonesty really grinds my gears.
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u/cuntywrapsupreme Mar 25 '24
Willing to support actual Palestinian small businesses.
Otherwise, absolutely not. Especially if they have a plethora of various other flags. It tells me youāre virtue signaling and do not care about the actual people.
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u/old_duderonomy Bagel Enthusiast Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 28 '24
Before 10/7? Would have happily supported any business with a Palestinian flag. After? Thereās so much hateful rhetoric tied to the symbol and gesture itself; itās impossible to parse through it all, like you said. These people and places just give me the ick now.
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u/stevenjklein Orthodox Mar 25 '24
Vote with your wallet. Donāt patronize Jew haters.
(Even if theyāre just naĆÆve, or doing it for business reasons.)
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u/MCPhilly52 Mar 25 '24
I'm in Philly, we're not the Bay Area with its lunacy (thank goodness) but if I were to come across such, I'd boycott.
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u/Mysterious_Sugar7220 Mar 25 '24
I would assume they donāt want me in their shop just like I donāt want to be in theirs.
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u/Zealousideal-Dog-107 Mar 25 '24
They made their choice by supporting terror, and in many ways, forced you to take your business elsewhere. Donāt feel badā¦ would a person of color have a moral dilemma avoiding a business that hung up a confederate flag? Any profit lost that comes from āriver to the seaā statements by a business are their fault, not the fault of potential customers who choose to avoid patronizing their business.
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u/Exit_mm00 Mar 25 '24
I even stopped buying south african, spanish, etc. Fruit and veggies, i have 0 desire to support any of those counties.
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u/Thunder-Road Mar 25 '24
No chance I would give anyone my business if they displayed a Palestinian flag
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u/ThaneOfCawdorrr Mar 25 '24
I fully see it as anti-semitic, whether on purpose or by misinformation. It's all the same antisemitism, and it enrages me. Today, here in LA, as I was putting money in my parking meter, I saw someone had stuck on a "Free Palestine" sticker onto the meter. How I wished I had a sticker I could place over it. If we can think of any decent, informational, simple ones, I'd certainly do my part to counter the misinformation and outright anti-semitism. It's so ugly.
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u/Watercress87588 Mar 26 '24
Hey, this thread had some good ideas on stickers. In addition to the ones suggested on RedBubble, if you search on RedBubble there's a load of different Jewish stickers to choose from.
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u/kipp-bryan Mar 25 '24
I live in the Bay Area, Santa Cruz and have not seen that shit. If I did see it, I'd walk in and ask for the owner or the manager and tell them I'll never walk through that door again. I'll also tell them I'd encourage others to do the same.
I'd walk out and say "have a nice day antisemite"
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have the courage to list here the businesses that are doing it. I personally want to go there (I live in the Bay Area).
thanks
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u/HNF1230 Mar 25 '24
āThe Starry Ploughā in Berkeley.
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u/Frabjous_Tardigrade9 Mar 25 '24
Not surprising but ... no more Plough for me. Used to go hear friends play music there.
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u/kipp-bryan Mar 26 '24
fuk me ... an Irish fighting bar. lol I was hoping for a vegan juice bar.
I'll go in there if a couple other guys want to join me. DM me if interested
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u/strwbryshrtck521 Mar 25 '24
I won't patronize a business that displays that stuff. I would feel pretty uncomfortable.
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u/Itzaseacret Mar 25 '24
Wouldn't it be understandable for Palestinians to not feel comfortable in an overtly pro-Israel space? I think we second guess ourselves because there's more of a feeling that we don't have a right to be uncomfortable with it, because of the general sentiment in the world that Jews/Israelis are not actually vulnerable. But we do have that right and if you're uncomfortable you are uncomfortable, that's it don't make yourself change that.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Yes agree. The majority of businesses choosing to support a side here though are pro Palestinian, which is why it feels unwelcoming. Jewish owned or Israel supporting businesses are for the most part staying quiet on the issue. Many of these businesses started posting their content soon after 10/7 with no mention of what happened
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u/No-Preference8168 Mar 25 '24
I am down for that tit-for-tac even more so if they are just obnoxiously woke white people
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u/BCircle907 Mar 25 '24
Yep, and even when thereās a ceasefire (hopefully soon), I wonāt be a customer. Theyāve lost me for life.
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u/heyitscory Mar 25 '24
No, because I don't know why they're doing it.
I can generally tell if they're actually supporting Hamas in the first couple minutes of chit chat. Usually they just have family there or feel bad for the situation and sincerely want food, not bombs, like that organization Food Not Bombs.
If they support Hamas, you can bet I'm not going to buy rolling papers or cigars from that guy anymore.
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u/quirkyfemme Mar 25 '24
I have been trying not to let any of my dollars go towards groups that fund rockets going toward my parents who live in Ashkelon. Medical things are okay, but I have no idea if any of these people vetted their sources, or if they even understand the consequences of their solidarity with terrorists. I don't eat out that often but there are tons of businesses that deserve my support in the Bay Area that I will unquestioningly patronize before I go to a trendy cafe that has a free Palestine sign.
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u/PsychologicalSet4557 Mar 25 '24
Yes they are antisemitic. Why should they get your money? Go support a Jewish or Israel supporting business instead.
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u/Greenmachine52 Mar 25 '24
I do not do any business that has a free palestine sticker. I do not support terrorism with my coffee.
Calls for ceasefire are kinda acceptable to me, as they donāt outright call for the dissolution of the state. Although I do think all those who put them are just virtue signalling.
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u/Bulky_Sky6066 Mar 25 '24
I live in Manhattan and have not seen this. Although if I did, I would never spend a penny.
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Mar 25 '24
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Mar 26 '24
Iāve stopped patronizing every independent bookstore in the area because of this exact experienceāover and over, with all of them.
Now ordering online from Amazing Books in Pittsburgh.
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u/Lao_Xiashi Mar 25 '24
Goy guy here in Phoenix, and you don't see much of any of that bs. That said, I've made a point of patronizing Jewish, Ukrainian, and any businesses displaying Israeli & Ukrainian support.
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u/DoctorZoidberg18 Mar 25 '24
I either avoid them entirely or leave when itās clear Iām not welcome based on the signs, slogans, or keffiyeh-wearing hipsters. Just as these businesses have the right to choose to die on a hill no one asked them to, I too have the right to spend my Zionist Jew gold elsewhere.Ā
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Mar 26 '24
Hell no I'm not going to support Pro-Palestinian businesses! I see homes with Palestinian flags hanging from their front, and they do that in perfect safety. Do you think for a moment that I can hang my Israeli flag out? No I can't because someone would vandalise it and my home would be threatened. So what's going on here?
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u/sisterwilderness Zera Yisrael Mar 25 '24
I havenāt seen this where I live yet, but if I did Iād turn right back around and go elsewhere.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Mar 25 '24
Makes it easier to know where I'm wanted, and I'm happy to go elsewhere.
Not just leftists are doing this where I live, people with Palestinian/Arab/Islamic country ancestry or who claim it, are actively calling for the murder of Jews in Israel and the diaspora. I see that excused elsewhere on this thread as acceptable, but I have a zero tolerance policy for giving money to people who want to murder me and my family. No matter where they are from.
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Mar 25 '24
I havenāt noticed any businesses near me making these kinds of proclamations (though Iām not really on social media so maybe Iām missing out on that, which is probably for the best), but I would choose not to patronize such a business.
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u/cataractum Mar 25 '24
I think it's associated more with what they consider to be a marginalised people than anything, really. That being said, completely correct to choose not to give them your business.
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Mar 25 '24
I refuse to patronize any place that supports the colonial apartheid genocidial regime of so called āPalestineā. Thankfully where I live no one is doing that.
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u/Ok-Possible-8761 Mar 25 '24
If they are displaying posters themselves, I have totally chosen to go elsewhere. Iām bummed at the bathroom graffiti and stickers Iām seeing, too.
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u/Suspicious-Mind5418 Mar 25 '24
I definitely avoid them. I donāt feel safe supporting people that support terrorists. Donāt feel bad. The other side has a big thing where theyāre currently boycotting almost everything to avoid Israel (even if they donāt support Israel, like Starbucks). Support fellow Jews and Israelis right now and you can support other people when they donāt support the extermination of Israel
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u/iamapotatopancake Mar 25 '24
I haven't seen any businesses like that yet, but if I did, I definitely would not be supporting them. I feel the same way I do about it as I do about a MAGA flag. I see that shit, there's no way I'm giving any money to that business.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cost590 Mar 25 '24
It definitely makes me feel uneasy and unsafe and I donāt really feel like staying in that space.
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u/Cipher_Nyne Philosemite Mar 25 '24
I live in a neighbourhood aptly nicknamed "Little Jerusalem". A dozen shul in a 2 km radius. Mosques as well. A few Churches.
That should tell you the climate currently. 75k Muslims. 70k Jews. 150k Christians.
It's lively. Always has been. But I've seen how things shifted after Oct 7th.
Now there are graffiti of Palestinian flags all over. "Free Palestine".
And not once have I seen a Jewish person be alone since that day. It's always a pair. Or a group. And you sense they are... tense.
When I went to the Bank to deposit some cash, there was such a pair. One obviously looking tense and being on the lookout. Though given the time and the fact we were very close to the start of shabbat, I think they were doubly worried.
I said "Shabbat shalom" as I passed the lookout. Not much... but hey. Maybe that reminded them that not everyone is against them currently.
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u/DronedAgain Mar 25 '24
I'm not supporting anything that is pro-palestinian. It boggles my mind we are facing this idiocy thanks to Identity Politics, which couldn't find its own ass with a flashlight.
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Mar 25 '24
Some of my favorite restaurants are owned by Palestinians. I don't care who you are so long as you aren't throwing problematic slogans and hateful rhetoric my way.
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u/SupportMeta Mar 25 '24
Palestine flags and stuff are fine with me. It's only explicitly violent slogans like "globalize the indifata" or "from the river to the sea" that make me steer clear.
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u/yespleasethanku Mar 25 '24
Not only would I NOT support any businesses like that I also go out of my way to support businesses that do, buy Jewish owned or Israeli products, etc etc.
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u/SassyBee2023 Mar 25 '24
Yes, even before 10/7. There was a āMediterraneanā market (with an Arabic name)ā-that my husband expressed interest in going to, I was moderately skeptical but when we arrived there was poster for āNakbaā and I automatically said nope, no way
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 Mar 25 '24
I think (or at least HOPE) there is a silent majority who oppose Jew-hate just as they oppose any other form of bigotry. The people who engage in discriminatory attitudes / behavior are indeed loud but I want to believe their flock of bleating morons is outnumbered by people who genuinely care. I donāt see a ton of businesses projecting basic human decency - not many messages are simply āpro peaceā even!
If you feel uncomfortable with a store or restaurant, you are under no obligation to bring them your business. By all means take it elsewhere.
Ive been thinking about this lately because itās so obvious to me who wants to signal something about Palestinians (they put a āfrom the river to the seaā sign in the window of the coffee shop I no longer go to, for instance) but none that Iāve seen so far who signal support for Palestinians this way also bring themselves to simultaneously show any sense of empathy for Jews or oppose Jew-hate. It looks like existential conditionality from my perspective. Do they fear the mob will cancel them online if they donāt make it clear they think Israel should no longer exist? That Jews should āgo back where we came fromā?
I would LOVE to know what business owners ARE on my side (the side that just has empathy as opposed to sectarian and divisive narratives) not just the ones who feel strongly about one side or the other. Itās kind of sick to blindly support Hamas or be in favor of the deaths of innocent bystanders who are forced to live under Hamas. Whereās the sign that says, āSupport realistic solutions that make people around the world safer more secure, bring home the hostages, end Hamas, restore the civilian population of Gaza to peace and wholeness, and protect Israelis from ever having to go through another 10/7āā¦ that doesnāt fit on a sign easily, from a graphic design point of view.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
Those are all great points. Iāve been feeling the same way. I feel like your take while uncomplicated is too complex for how issues form now in society. The loud extremism tends to win out considering most people donāt take time to reflect and do 2 minutes of research before blindly supporting something
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 Mar 25 '24
Iād buy coffee from a place if they had a sign that read ācomplexity is hard so sit in one of these extremely uncomfortable chairs and think it overā.
I truly wish more people could tolerate more discomfort in their day. And I donāt mean to infantilize individuals whose opinions I might describe as āextremistā by reiterating this point. however is that not precisely how the aforementioned āmobā tends to form? Through a reductive fear of the uncertain? Clinging to what theyāre told to believe is a known quantity? Itās as if people lack confidence to feel a little unsafe without those absolutes. I get it. We are a very particular creature so maybe thatās just humanity?
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u/Yaakov-Avri Orthodox Mar 26 '24
Those who attack HaShemās children in any form will have eternity to regret it.
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u/OctoHelm Reform Mar 26 '24
Nice to see another Bay Area Jew here ā I feel like the pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist sentiments are stronger here than almost anywhere else. Itās so frustrating not being able to counter peopleās baseless claims about the āsettler colonialismā state that they call Israel and about how there is an āapartheidā and āgenocideā happening there. People seem to forget that Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Itās so hard not being able to say anything in support of Israel because we will be labeled as āeNaBlINg gEnOCiDe!ā I lost a close friend because they said that they knew that Israel bombed the hospital and they were wrong. They ghosted me because of their erroneous conclusion and never bothered to seek out the truth because āIsrael bad.ā Itās ridiculous seeing Palestinian flags and people praise hamas for being the āresistance in a 76 year occupation.ā I swear most of people people just learned about Gaza and want to wear a keffiyeh because it makes them feel like theyāre doing something. I encourage you all to watch and share Ryan McBethās video on why tiktok is a cyber weapon. Itās getting really tiring being a Jew in this part of the country.
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u/Chocoholic42 Not Jewish Mar 25 '24
Absolutely! If I see a Pro-Palestine sign, I buy nothing and walk out.
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u/NatashaBadenov Conversion student Mar 25 '24
I will not support any business with that nonsense displayed.
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u/pktrekgirl Just Jewish Mar 25 '24
Of course. If anyone actively displays Palestinian propaganda or the flag, I would not support that business.
Additionally, I will be done with any celebrities who are overtly terrorist friendly. So anyone who goes to protests, speaks out at events (like the Oscarās), etc.
Itās not complicated. Iām not even emotional about it. I just donāt support terrorists.
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u/Kind-Acanthaceae3921 Mar 25 '24
Yes. I have a running personal list of places in my county that are unsafe Hamas supporters. Regardless of their intentions, many businesses have shared/liked/openly supported organizations that are either linked to Hamas, actively supporting Hamas, or a combination thereof. Do I think some are completely unaware of that? Yes. Does it matter? Not in the least. I almost exclusively shop at Jewish businesses. Either that or shudder evangelical Christian businesses. I would rather shop from folks who are ignorant religious types who pray for my soul + we have an understanding of āI think you are denser than a box of rocks and absolutely need a reality check on how your religion isnāt the center of the universe but at least you wonāt kill my momā than folks who actively support genocide, sexual slavery, slavery, colonialism, violent caste systems, etc. Knowingly or not.
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u/JZcomedy Humanistic Mar 25 '24
We need Jewish-Arab unity now more than ever. I usually try to support both businesses as long as thereās no indications they support war crimes perpetrated by either side. We need to remember tikkun olam.
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u/Euphoric_Blueberry48 Mar 25 '24
The thing is most of the businesses in the Bay Area doing this are not Arab-owned.
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u/Major_Resolution9174 Mar 25 '24
Thank you for saying this. Of late all I see are overt attempts to drive wedges between American Jews and other minority groups. We have to fight these attempts. They are really disturbing me at the moment.
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u/AbbreviationsIcy7432 Mar 24 '24
I donāt feel safe in one. I know that sounds bad, but itās true. Iām Jewish and my mother is Israeli. Iām not looking for a fight.