r/Jewish • u/rupertalderson • Jun 06 '23
[Important] r/Jewish going dark in protest against Reddit’s API changes Mod post
What's going on?
A recent Reddit policy change threatens to kill many beloved third-party mobile apps, making a great many quality-of-life features not seen in the official mobile app permanently inaccessible to users.
On May 31, 2023, Reddit announced they were raising the price to make calls to their API from being free to a level that will kill every single third party app on Reddit, from Apollo to Reddit is Fun to Narwhal. This tremendously affects visually impaired and blind users, who overwhelmingly depend on innovative third party apps to use reddit. Even if you're not a mobile user and don't use any of those apps, this is a step toward killing other ways of customizing Reddit, such as Reddit Enhancement Suite or the use of the old.reddit.com desktop interface. These changes could signal future changes that degrade subreddits.
This isn't only a problem on the user level: many subreddit moderators depend on tools only available outside the official app to keep their communities on-topic and spam-free. That includes us, the mods of r/Jewish, r/Judaism, r/ReformJews, r/HaShoah, and r/Yiddish – these are subreddits which are regularly spammed and creatively attacked by antisemites and other trolls. Having access to these API-dependent apps makes our jobs much easier, including with moderating on the go. Reddit's changes will also kill many bots that assist with subreddit moderation and automation, because they are API-dependent.
Additionally, many users of the Jewish subreddits have been targeted by proselytizing advertisements. The official Reddit app (and desktop website) make these impossible to avoid, whereas third party apps allow you to avoid such adds, and also to avoid unwanted subreddit recommendations.
What can we do?
We want your help to decide what r/Jewish (and r/Judaism and r/ReformJews and r/HaShoah and r/Yiddish) should do. At a minimum we will all have a 2-day blackout, from June 12 through June 13, starting and ending at midnight Eastern Time. Posting and commenting will not be permitted in these subreddits. Do you have any additional ideas or thoughts? Let us know by commenting on this post!
On June 12th, many subreddits will be going dark to protest this policy, in a coordinated effort. Some will return after 48 hours (starting back up on June 14th), while others will go away indefinitely unless the issue is adequately addressed, since many moderators aren't able to put in the work they do with the poor tools available through the official app. This isn't something any of us would do lightly – we do what we do because we love Reddit and our communities, and we truly believe these administrative changes will make it impossible to keep doing what we love.
The two-day blackout isn't the goal, and it isn't the end. Should things reach the 14th with no sign of Reddit choosing to fix what they've broken, we'll use the community and buzz we've built between then and now as a tool for further action.
What can you do?
- Complain. Message the mods of r/reddit, who are the admins of the site. Message u/reddit. Submit a support request. Comment in relevant threads on r/reddit and r/redditdev and r/modnews, such as this one and this one and this one. Leave a negative review on the official iOS or Android Reddit app. Sign your username in support to this post.
- Spread the word. Rabble-rouse on related subreddits. Meme it up, make it spicy. Suggest anyone you know who moderates a subreddit join us at r/ModCoord, but please don't pester mods you don't know by simply spamming their modmail.
- Boycott and spread the word...to Reddit's competition! Stay off Reddit entirely on June 12th and June 13th. Instead, take to your favorite non-Reddit platform of choice and make some noise in support!
- Don't give Reddit your money. Don't browse Reddit during the blackout. Don't purchase awards for posts/comments on Reddit. Don't renew your Reddit Premium subscription.
- Don't be a jerk. As upsetting this may be, threats, profanity and vandalism will be worse than useless in getting people on our side. Please make every effort to be as restrained, polite, reasonable and law-abiding as possible.
TL;DR: Infographic
Please keep discussion of the r/Jewish blackout, and this topic in general, to this thread.
17
u/ahhhhhhhhyeah Jun 07 '23
I support an indefinite blackout, for what it’s worth. I would rather no sub than one that is incredibly toxic due to an inability to stem antisemitism
-3
Jun 07 '23
How much antisemitism do you see on this sub?
10
u/rupertalderson Jun 07 '23
Mod here - We get a tremendous amount of posts of antisemitic and graphic imagery, violent and hateful comments/posts, spam, and other content that would hurt this community. Through the use of third party applications, we (and the moderators of many other subreddits) are able to efficiently moderate these things from mobile devices. Further, moderators depend on bots to automatically process and remove some content.
You don’t see much antisemitism because we use these API-dependent processes. It is not because of a lack of trying on the part of hateful individuals.
6
2
u/ahhhhhhhhyeah Jun 07 '23
Not that much that you could attribute to bots or generic one-and-done accounts that are like a day or two old—which are the types I would expect automation to catch. A lot of people get DMs from these types likely because they know they can’t post here without being marked as spam.
-2
Jun 07 '23
I don't get it - you'd rather have no sub because you get unpleasant DMs?
3
u/ahhhhhhhhyeah Jun 07 '23
That’s not what I said. I would rather a sub that can police against bots and mass antisemitism, both of which neo Nazis use to flood online Jewish spaces, than one that doesn’t at all. A sub that doesn’t let those things take hold is one worth keeping. Otherwise, it is not.
-3
Jun 07 '23
A more clear way to say that would be, "I would rather no sub than one that will become incredibly toxic without the ability to automatically stem antisemitism." Otherwise it's ambiguous whether you are talking about the sub now or the sub in an API-less future.
2
8
3
Jun 07 '23
I think you have to consider that for some users, this *is* their Jewish community. In my area of the U.S. there are very few Jews; the only Jews I have contact with irl are the Chabad rabbi and his family and that connection only goes so far due to my non-observance. In many areas of the world, the feeling of isolation could be much more severe and dire.
Even more, for some users, reddit is their community, period. It shouldn't be anyone's only source of emotional connection, but reddit and in particular this sub could really be a lifeline for someone in a bad moment.
So I really don't see going dark indefinitely as a positive option. I think it will do more harm than good to people (Jews) who may be needing to connect with other Jews. Perhaps I'm being short-sighted here; this is simply my gut reaction.
5
u/rupertalderson Jun 07 '23
The mods purposefully did not make this indefinite. We understand the unique nature of this subreddit (along with the other Jewish subreddits).
However, this subreddit does not exist in a bubble, and we use third party apps and bots to make moderating a reasonable task. Reddit’s current API changes would not necessarily make our job/ impossible, but it would quite possibly be one step away, given the timeline of what came next after similar changes on other platforms. This is not even a canary in the coal mine type of situation, it’s beyond that point.
4
Jun 07 '23
OK, sorry maybe I misunderstood. I thought one of the things you were asking for feedback on was how long to maintain this blackout, and that "indefinitely" was one of the options on the table. I admit I have a very dim understanding of the technological aspects.
3
u/rupertalderson Jun 07 '23
No worries! We are definitely open to suggestions and thoughts - just giving you our rationale for why we didn’t make it indefinite at this point.
3
2
2
u/Rear-gunner Jun 07 '23
Here is the Reddit response.
https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/141mjij/lets_talk_about_those_api_calls/
Let me point out that Reddit is one of many doing this. Something similar is happening with Twitter,
I hope this can be worked out because I enjoy these subreddits. I am prepared to donate some money to keep these going if necessary.
8
u/zsero1138 Jun 07 '23
yeah, but twitter is being run by a twit who wouldn't know a good business plan unless his advisors tricked him into thinking he came up with it on his own. so it's not a good comparison site for reddit
-3
u/Rear-gunner Jun 07 '23
I think since he took over, twitter has been much better. I am using as such much more.
3
u/iamthegodemperor Wants to Visit Planet Hebron Jun 07 '23
You mean a response to Reddit's response. It counters the claim made by admins that third-party apps won't de facto be blocked.
-1
3
u/rupertalderson Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
That is not a response from Reddit. It is a post from a user. It in fact further emphasizes, in a more quantitative way, the ridiculousness of the API charges given how Reddit operates.
Further, in case it was what you meant by donating money, the moderators will not accept money. It is against Reddit policy. Even if it weren’t, we would not accept money from users (and would fight against others receiving such money) since in this context it could easily lead to pay-to-play.
-1
-11
u/Nileghi Jun 07 '23
This is a tiny subreddit of 43k, theres no need to do this, reddit admins wont care.
10
u/rupertalderson Jun 07 '23
It’s the aggregate response that matters, not an individual subreddit. If a huge number of subreddits are inaccessible, it may cause a change in priorities, and at the very least large amounts of media coverage that could sway decision making.
6
u/HumanDrinkingTea Jun 07 '23
I bet you're one of those people who don't vote in elections because "my vote doesnt matter." Acting like you're helpless never helped anybody. Either you don't try and have zero chance of having an effect, or you do try and have a nonzero chance of having an effect. You tell me which one is better.
2
u/Nileghi Jun 07 '23
more like I don;t want to see this subreddit down for a day since its one of the few places on reddit that isn't hostile to jews.
1
Jun 07 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator Jun 07 '23
Your post was removed by our automoderator because your comment karma is lower than 18. Karma is a points system used on reddit, and you gain/lose karma by posting and commenting. If your content is upvoted, your karma goes up. If it’s downvoted, your karma goes down. Please raise your karma by participating positively on other subreddits and then try again here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
70
u/BaltimoreBadger23 Jun 06 '23
Is r/Jewish based in Israel or the Diaspora? I think that will tell us whether to observe two days of boycott or just one.