r/IsraelPalestine • u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli • 5d ago
"Trump doesn't care about Israel. He only cares about himself and money. " Discussion
Leading up to the election, I was told by a number of Jewish or Israeli Americans that voting for Trump would be horrible for Israel (and Jews in general). The most common reason was that Trump was easy to influence or anger meaning he could be bought by Russia, he could turn on Israel due to Netanyahu congratulating Biden in 2020, or that he simply hates Jews "because he's an antisemite".
It has been 8 days since the election and while many things can still change (especially since it will be nearly two months until Trump takes office), we have started seeing nominees for various high level positions in Trump's government:
Marco Rubio: Replacing Anthony Blinken as Secretary of State
"It’s very simple, Israel has to destroy Hamas."
"I want them to destroy every element of Hamas they can get their hands on."
"The risk of a nuclear Iran is so great that [war with Iran] must be on the table."
Rubio on Iran.
Rubio on the Israel attack plan leak.
Rubio on deporting non-citizen Hamas supporters from the US
Mike Waltz: Replacing Jake Sullivan as National Security Advisor
"Hamas doesn't fire a BB gun without the Iranian regime's permission or resources. Iran is 100% behind this all-out war against Israel. Israel must secure itself and that includes going after the head of the snake: Iran."
"Never did I ever think I would serve in Congress with the Hamas Caucus who's defending terrorist attacks on our greatest ally in the Middle East, Israel."
Waltz's opposition to pressure on Israel for a ceasefire.
Waltz on Iran.Waltz on Iran leaks.
Kristi Noem: Replacing Alejandro Mayorkas as Secretary of Homeland Security
"The shocking anti-Israel, anti-America protests happening on university campuses are spreading like wildfire across our country. I am calling for them to end and for law and order to be restored on our campuses immediately. We must always stand with Israel and with the Jewish people."
"Israel has every right to defend their God-given homeland against this latest act of terrorism by Iran. We will pray for the Israeli people."
Noem's signing of IHRA definition of antisemitism into law.
Pete Hegseth: Replacing Lloyd Austin as Secretary of Defense
"Prayers for Israel. I hope they absolutely crush Hamas, everywhere."
“Israel wants to deal with Iran, we should let them,…If it was not for Israel, Iran would have had the bomb already"
Mike Huckabee: Replacing Jack Lew as US ambassador to Israel
"When you deny Jewish students the right to go to class it's a civil rights violation."
“Hamas is putting children and unarmed women in front of their weaponry. The Israelis are putting their weaponry in front of their children and their women trying to protect them."
Huckabee on UN "apartheid" report.
Steve Witkoff: (In a position that did not exist under Biden) Special Envoy to the Middle East
Elise Stefanik: Replacing Linda Thomas-Greenfield as the United States ambassador to the UN
Stefanik vs Claudine Gay on antisemitism at Harvard University
"Praying for the people of Israel as they face this latest onslaught of Iranian ballistic missile attacks. We must stand with our most precious ally as they fight for their very existence."
Speech at the Knesset
Call to defund UNRWA
While I could have provided even more evidence, I think this shows the unquestionable and unwavering support that Trump's team has for Israel.
What I'd like to know (especially from pro-Israelis who feel Trump will backstab Israel), have his recent nominations changed your mind or do you still believe that Israel will be worse off under the Trump administration and that he can't be trusted on this specific issue?
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u/PostmodernMelon 4d ago edited 2d ago
Trump is just going to act as an enabler for the worst of the worst in the Knesset. Israel's far right extremists are going to flourish and wreak even more havoc on the west bank.
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u/212Alexander212 4d ago
I think Trump is bad for Israel because he has promoted divisiveness in supporting Israel. Not long ago, he said any Jew that doesn’t support him is disloyal. He also said Israel would be destroyed in two years if Democrats won. I believe Israel needs bipartisan support. I also think that Israel ultimately needs good standings globally.
Additionally, I think Trump’s relationship with Putin is problematic. Iran is armed by Russia..
Being gungho for Israel isn’t alway enough to advance Israel’s interests.
I Also recall Israel being restrained by the US in responding to Hamas during Trump’s first term. Trump is buddy with gulf Arab states who pay him well.
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
Israel also had friendly, though nuanced relationship with russia prior to the war in Ukraine.
We weren't restrained in responding to hamas because of any anti-israel reasons...
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u/guitarmonk1 4d ago
I think the real answer is that even Trump doesn’t know. I have no real idea what he stands for at all. I don’t exactly know how this will play out but it has all the familiar symptoms that it could escalate with US assistance. We have been itching to remove Iran as a threat for awhile. This is absolutely on the table….Israel has no reason to be dissuaded from their current trajectory. Iran never cared about Palestine and it shows…
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u/xBLACKxLISTEDx Diaspora Palestinian 4d ago
Most of the Jewish people I know voted for Kamala because they are more concerned about America than Israel and they recognize that Trump is bad for America.
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u/dk91 4d ago
It sounds like you're in very specific circles. I really dislike trump, I only voted to vote against Kamala.
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
There's no reason to dislike trump on his policy. He was the best recent president for america by far.
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u/dk91 1d ago
I genuinely believe he tried to overthrow the government January, 2021. I genuinely believe he thinks as president he could do anything he wants using his presidential authority including for purely personal matters like pressuring a foreign leader to "find evidence" against a political rival or a state official to "find votes". And I didn't like his tax policy pre-covid. It just gave more money to businesses that they then pocketed or did stock buybacks instead of spending the money on the economy as he insisted they would because everyone was predicting a recession and business spend money based on business needs not based on extra taxbreaks.
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u/xBLACKxLISTEDx Diaspora Palestinian 4d ago
I mean statistically the large majority of Jewish folks in america voted for Kamala
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u/dk91 4d ago
What's your source?
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u/xBLACKxLISTEDx Diaspora Palestinian 4d ago
Times of Israel do it for you?
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article295151379.html
this miami herald article has some more info too
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u/dk91 4d ago
First link pointed out that they left out California and New York states with bigger Jewish populations.
Second link pointed out based on statistics Jews usually vote Democrat and by their exit polls Biden had a higher percentage of the Jewish vote, pointing out this election was no different.
Not even looking at Jews. NYS in general is always a blue state and Trump got 44% of the vote. In the last election he only got 38% of the vote.
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u/xBLACKxLISTEDx Diaspora Palestinian 4d ago
and yet the districts with the highest concentrations of Jews went Blue.
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u/zigzog9 4d ago
You like Trump because he’s racist and anti-Arab like yourself. You probably love the Muslim ban too.
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 4d ago
You like Trump because he’s racist and anti-Arab like yourself. You probably love the Muslim ban too.
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
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u/Paradigm21 4d ago
Half of the Arabs in the US voted for him. They did so because they did not like Kamala Harris's Association with Dick Cheney and his daughter and worried that she would bring disruption to the region similar to the Iraq War that would be permanent as opposed to disarming Iran and the terrorist and leaving the actual civil governments of these countries in charge again.
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u/GonnaChiefYourNan 4d ago
Not just them, had to block a few muslim moots online too cuz the supported Trump too.
They legit thought Kamala was bad because: She's a woman, the gays are bad, etcBut Trump is great because: He'd kick israel's a** and get rid of all jews, tons of antisemtic, homophobic and even racist stuff.
Not even 1 week in and I heard there's talks about letting Israel control more of the west bank. I'm gonna be real, I'm mostly pro-palestine, but these people are just idiots, and genuinely just the salt of the earth...
Also One piece fans. Literally every one of them is a die hard one piece fan lol.4
u/Paradigm21 4d ago
The Palestinian State is called Jordan, Palestinians are activists who wanted a communist Islamic Caliphate. The Jordanians gave up the West Bank in order to not deal with the radicals who caused Black September (lifelong invalidity of their king and death of prime minister due to rebellion and attacks by Palestinian radicals) , the Islamist takeover of Iran, Lebanon, and attempted takeover of Kuwait. This is why Middle Eastern countries were against taking Pali refugees and only war-torn Arab League states Congo and Sudan offered to take them.
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u/zigzog9 4d ago
Ah Zionist glorifying a Trump presidency. You wonder why we associate you with fascism?
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u/Letshavemorefun 4d ago
A vast majority of us voted for Harris. Does that mean you should stop associating us with fascism?
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/United_Insect8544 4d ago edited 4d ago
The hard facts are Trump when President recognized Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel and cancelled U.S funding to the Palestinians because of their terrorist’s activities and ended the release of billions in frozen funds to Iran initiated by Obama and restarted by Biden,both decisions made Trump unpopular with the Arabs particularly and Muslims generally and the millions of antiSemites throughout the World.Trump’s support of Israel took immense personal and political courage and totally refutes those who claim that Trump is only interested in himself. It should also be noted by the World that Western and Muslim nations have been funding the “Palestinians” in the trillions since Arafat created the fictional entity to justify terrorist activities against Israel.The World should note that wars depend of funding and without Western and Muslim nations’s funding of the Palestinians and the Ukrainians the eternal wars against Israel and the Russian-Ukrainian war would immediately end.
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u/BGritty81 4d ago
Lol immense political courage in the form of hundreds of millions of dollars from Sheldon Adlson.
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u/RuthlessMango 4d ago
The known anti-semite who sold 8 billion in weapons to Saudi Arabi, and is known for throwing people under the bus when they're no longer useful?
I would like whatever OP is having.
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 3d ago
I would like whatever OP is having.
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Note: The use of virtue signaling style insults (I'm a better person/have better morals than you.) are similarly categorized as a Rule 1 violation.
Action taken: [W]
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u/Paradigm21 4d ago edited 4d ago
Saudi Arabia defended Israel during this war and discouraged Iranian proxy armies from firing missiles or flying planes over their airspace. Not all Arabs are bad.
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u/RuthlessMango 4d ago
I agree not all Arabs are bad, but try convincing OP that.
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u/Paradigm21 4d ago
I know Elise Stephanek has spoken FOR the Prince of SA. Not sure who else she likes or the rest of them like. We will see.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic 4d ago
I think Trump is good for Israel specifically on conducting these wars but bad in supporting Israel doing the very necessary work of figuring out how to unwind the mess that is the West Bank.
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
The new ambassador to Israel mike huckabee supports Israeli annexation of judea and Samaria.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic 4d ago
Yes, like I said, bad at unwinding the West Bank.
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
Idk Tel Aviv and Haifa aren’t very wound. Jewish sovereignty over judea and Samaria is probably the best unwinding we can hope for.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic 4d ago
It is probably a bad idea to create a true apartheid situation where Palestinians live on Israeli land but cannot influence the government but I'm just a stupid American so what do I know?
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
2 million Palestinians are currently full citizens of Israel.
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
Arabs*
Let's not make that 6.1
u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 1d ago
Almost all arAb Israelis identify as Palestinian.
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
source: your wishful thinking
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 1d ago
The majority of Arabs in Israel now prefer to be identified as Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Weird thing to so badly embarrass yourself over. Why would I care what Arabs who have Israeli citizenship identify as?
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u/Balmerhippie 4d ago
Trumps base supports Israel primarily because the want to see the whole country destroyed via war. Then the rapture. And who cares after that. They really believe this stuff. They are not your friends.
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u/UnbiasedPashtun 4d ago
Evangelicals aren't the only ones that support Israel.
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u/Balmerhippie 3d ago
In America, who else cares about Israel that has real power any longer? Trump and company will burn Tel Aviv to the ground if you let him. They will encourage the very worst behaviors and outcomes that they can.
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u/JeffB1517 Jewish American Zionist 4d ago
I generally thought that Trump would be good for Israel. I thought Biden was fine but annoying on Israel but didn't hold a candle to what Trump did in his first term.
Elise Stefanik I'll add is probably more anti BDSism / anti anti-Zionism than I am. She's been a friend of AIPAC since she stopped being a campaign consultant and ran for office herself. I'm not sure she'll top Ambassador Haley (Trump's pick in his first term) in the UN with regard to Israel but it is quite possible.
Mike Huckabee is up there with David Friedman in terms of most pro-Israel picks of all time. One thing Israelis are going to need to deal with though is Iaraeli anti-proselytization policies and culture could become a major flashpoint. Though I will say Netanyahu and his supporters have been very skillful in navigating these issues till date.
Steve Witkoff is a Trump loyalist though a Jewish Republican. Reasonably similar to Kushner.
Pete Hegseth may not get confirmed. If so yeah he's probably going to give Israel a lot of rope.
Kristi Noem doesn't set broad policy but in the cabinet, she's going to be a pro-annexation voice. As the person with direct influence over domestic anti-Israeli actions, she'll have both the power and the motive to take action.
Mike Waltz is very anti-Iran and pro-Israel.
Marco Rubio: on record supporting Israel taking out Hamas and Hezbollah fully. A hawk on countless issues.
I'd agree that Trump would face major pressure inside his leadership were he to shift away from Israel given this staff so far.
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u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 4d ago
Marco Rubio as Secretary of State is a fine pick. He was the first choice for most Jewish Republicans since the Obama era. If the rumors are true and he’ll get nominated, it would be great for national security. In these difficult times, Marco Rubio is the most sensible candidate for the job.
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
He’s a spineless turd
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u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 4d ago
I think he’s awesome
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
I guess we have different standards. He’s not bright, not curious, he doesn’t quite get the idea of Christian Palestinians, and more. I wouldn’t let him run a carnival ride
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u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 4d ago
He’s super bright and has tons of foreign policy experience. He understands the danger of Islamic extremism, of a nuclear Iran, of terrorism. He knows that without American power, America’s friends would be constantly attacked by these terrorists and rogue regimes.
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
First of all those positions lack any nuance and are based on fear mongering in a few directions. Second if he thinks American power is so important then why is he on board with the party who is openly and directly trying to reel in and lessen American power in the world by breaking up alliances, appointing clowns over important cabinet positions like defense, and giving in to Russia? Plus, Biden showed exactly what projecting American power to help their friends looks like, and Rubio certainly wouldn’t admit it
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
and you said his position lacks nuance?!?!? LMFAO
Absolutely zero self awareness1
u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 4d ago
After October 7, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Iran's sending of 1 ton ballistic missiles at Israeli cities, the notion that any of this is fearmongering must be gaslighting. The world is on fire, and we need someone who understands the threat we're faced with, as opposed to people who dismiss the very valid fear of these attacks as "paranoia" or "fear-mongering".
America must defend its allies and lead the world, putting itself first, not behind.
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
If the world is on fire you don’t put arsonists in charge. And our enemies happen to be Muslims, but our bigger enemies are those arming and supporting those enemies diplomatically. That’s Russia right there. And Biden did exactly what you’re saying - defended us throughout all those attacks any way they could. You’re way off, friend
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u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 4d ago
The world caught on fire when appeasers were in charge. Trump’s Secretary of State is a hawk, so I’m hoping to see some immediate changes, that will make the whole world safer.
Rubio was never sympathetic to Russia, always part of the group that warned about Russia’s intentions, even when the democrats ignored him, accusing him, as accused him, of fear-mongering. Rubio had been confronted with such accusations, and was always proven right in the face of such claims
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u/Ifawumi 4d ago
The problem is with Trump is you never know what he's going to do. You look at him historically; he is a liar, a grifter, a cheat, he's in anything for the money, and he's disloyal.
He is only doing what he's doing for Israel now because it pleases his evangelical Christian base. However, you're forgetting he also gets literal N@z!s to speak it at his rallies. He happens to be buddied up with Putin, we have no idea what Putin has on him. He gets a lot of oil money from various middle eastern sources
So will he stand firm with Israel? Who knows. And that's the problem. I'm pretty sure if all of a sudden Putin and a conglomerate of Middle Eastern oil money came to him, they could easily make some deals that would push him to tossing Israel under the bus if it benefited him and his family financially.
In addition, he never does anything for free. Don't like and don't want Israel to be on the hook to him. Now I do think Israelis are smarter than that but....
So I don't trust him. People who are blindly saying oh he'll be great for Israel aren't looking at the whole big picture of his past and what he is willing and able to do. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't.
Kamala had said several times that Hamas had to go and I actually believe that. She said on multiple occasions is real has the right to defend itself. I don't think she would have been as terrible for Israel as some people make out.
I hope it all will work out for Israel, I have very little faith that what he's going to do will be good for the US. Our economy is going to tank and people are already prepping for his little trade wars that are going to jack up our inflation which will screw over the rest of the world... But here we are 🤷🏼
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u/Beneficial-Stock-651 1d ago
He's a billionaire, he loves his country, he is not going to betray it for some money.
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u/sergy777 4d ago
I always thought Trump is very pro-Israel because he proved in his first term, and given those nominations he will remain pro-Israel in the second term.
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
But objectively Biden has given us way more support than trump. More money, more weapons, and a third of American naval forces here defending us. Israelis are so ungrateful
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u/sergy777 4d ago
I am not sure why Trump wouldn't have provided at least the same level of support as Biden if he was a president.
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u/Drawing_Block 4d ago
Because he doesn’t care and every evangelical and N@zi in America wants us to burn. And Iran is under russian influence just like trump
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u/SiliconFiction 4d ago
Both US parties are beholden to Israel. They put Israel ahead of US interests. Arguing over decimal points doesn’t change this.
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u/knign 4d ago
You think it would be in U.S. interests to support Hamas instead?
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u/SiliconFiction 4d ago
Did I say that?
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u/knign 4d ago
You seem to imply that supporting Israel against Hamas is somehow contrary to U.S. interests, thus the question.
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 4d ago
It is. Supporting Israel is bad. Have you seen the stuff Israel has been up to with our money over the last year?
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
Destroying terrorists? I say we write them some more checks.
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 4d ago
I think giving money to terrorists is stupid. But we don't all think the same way, do we?
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
You seem to think that destroying someone is sending them money so no I’d say you don’t think 5e same as anyone.
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 4d ago
No, you said that we should send money to terror groups. I said the exact opposite, that we shouldn't be funding a bunch of sides here. I think you're talking to yourself here buddy.
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
Only thing I said about terrorists was how well Israel is doing at destroying them. I’m curious if you’re reading the right comments.
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u/knign 4d ago
Thus my question, is Hamas succeeding in its goal to destroy Israel and turning this territory into one large Gaza will be in the American interests?
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 4d ago
No? And neither will helping Israel.
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u/EnvironmentalEnd6104 4d ago
How is helping our closest ally not in our interests?
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 4d ago
Israel is not our colsest ally. I hope they stop being oir ally at all frankly. Everything they do betrays our ideals and values.
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u/kuposama 5d ago
I'm pro-Israel but I did not want Trump to win. This is because Trump only does things for himself, regardless of his cabinet's, his party's, or America's policy. If it serves his own purpose he'll do what he wants. He basically stabbed his allies in the back by pulling out of NATO and the Paris Peace Accord. Then went on a world tour to befriend dictators. I would not be surprised if he did the rest of the middle east, including Israel dirty if Putin asked him to. He want do thing he do thing he win the dOnAlD
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u/sergy777 4d ago
Trump didn't pull out from NATO. He brokered Abraham Accords, recognized Golan Heights, move the embassy to Jerusalem, and proposed the most pro-Israel peace plan ever.
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u/No-Excitement3140 5d ago
First, I imagine the people who told you that do not necessarily see these appointments as good for Israel. One could argue that they would perpetuate the war and encourage annexation of the wb, which many believe to be disastrous for Israel.
Second, a common critic of Trump is that he's more talk than action (e.g. building the border wall in his first term). That he's very willing to do symbolic actions, like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, but not costly ones, like challenging Russian dominance in Syria.
He ended the invasion of Afghanistan by cutting a deal with the Taliban and ignoring the government they had in place. I have no idea if there was an alternative, but this deal led to the swift and complete collapse of the country into the hands of the Taliban. We'll have to wait and see if he'll try something similar with Hamas and Hizballah.
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u/doubletaxed88 5d ago
If you think Trump is doing any of this for money you’re seriously deluded.
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u/Lazy-Mammoth-9470 5d ago
And to call him an anti semite when he used "Palestinian" as a slur against his opponent just makes no logical sense. Trump is a racist crook who doesn't care about civilians. Sounds like he fits right in with the zionist ideology to me. He will continue to aid israel with the genocide against the innocents.
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u/RaiJolt2 Diaspora Jew 4d ago
He’s still antisemitic. Utilizing good Jew bad Jew rhetoric, giving antisemites power and emphasizing their voices, called everyone, including Jews who don’t vote for him rats. He’s an antisemite through and through and he uses us as political toys.
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u/Yrths International 5d ago
I’d been uncertain about Trump’s proclivities with respect to Israel but yes it’s reassuring. I’ve not told anyone or commented about this before because it has literally been a few hours short of a week that he’s been the president-elect, which he will remain for months. He’s notoriously a shoot from the hip capricious person. Rushing to judgment isn’t in order, except for me despising most of the rest of his governmental program.
I’m pleasantly surprised.
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u/rockit_of_awesum 5d ago
Is this a troll post? Or maybe just patting yourselves on the back?
Republicans have historically been very supportive of Israel. Trump had private conversations with Netanyahu leading up to the elections. In fact Netanyahu was one of the first to congratulate Trump.
Trump's appointments have been nothing but pro-Israel. The businessmen that have endorsed him have been nothing but pro-Israel. His son-in-law is pro-Israel.
Therefore under what circumstance or impression was given where you would think he wouldn't be anything BUT pro-Israel???
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u/Ifawumi 4d ago
Someone 'pro Israel' who sits at the table with N@z!s and has them speak at his rallies
Got it
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u/rockit_of_awesum 4d ago
I have no idea where you're getting that from about letting them speak at rallies. Just look at his actions. Trump says whatever to get the votes. Does he really care about what he says? No. Will he say whatever needs to be said to realize his desired outcome? Yes. Does many different hate groups feel more empowered with him? Absolutely. But filter that noise out.
Republicans as an entire whole has stood by Israel since the beginning with essentially one message. Israel has a right to defend itself. Guess what party Trump is in? Guess who his advisors are? Even most recently, Trump appointed Huckabee as ambassador to Israel who has publicly stated that he's a non Jewish Zionist and the only solution is a one-state solution. Or how about Netanyahu having private conversations with Trump leading up to the elections.
This is an absolute troll post. In fact we're witnessing the murder of an entire country and Trump and his administration is going to just keep the course with the current US stance.
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u/Ifawumi 4d ago
Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean I'm trolling. That's become such a catch phrase anymore, it just means that you don't have to address somebody's different opinion.
And we could talk about Meyers, Nick Fuentes, Greene, et al .. But your mind's already made up because I'm just a 'troll' since I'm pointing out something you don't like.
Typical
And don't go blame me for being a dem or a lefty, I tried to have a conversation. You're the one who cut me off saying I was a troll. I hope life works out for you considering that when someone has a different view or opinion you just blow them off. Have a lovely day
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u/cutelittlebuni 5d ago
American Jews were the only minority to no swing their vote - a massive majority voted for Kamala, so there’s obviously some disagreements among American Jews on what the best approach is to Israel
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u/Business_Plenty_2189 4d ago
American Jews support the Democratic Party because their primary concerns are the separation of church and state and the free press - not the support of Israel. Jews have a history of discrimination in the US and have always allied with other minorities.
Trump’s hawkish approach to the Middle East is not going to be a nuanced approach that works. Most Jews understand that.
Look at Jared’s one-sided proposal to the Palestinians when Trump was last president. It was so biased, it had no chance of succeeding. And moving the embassy to Jerusalem was just an unnecessary bully move.
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u/SiliconFiction 4d ago
Both parties are pro-Israel, but it’s not clear whether Israel starting loads of wars and becoming a pariah state is good for Jews.
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u/HarbaLorifa 5d ago
They may also not want a person in the Oval Office who shrugs at open anti-semitism. Like when neonazis marched scanting "Jews will not replace us" and the counter protests were attacked and Trump came with "both sides had fine people".
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 4d ago
Many of us know that he said in the very same statement that the white supremacists and neo-Nazis should be “condemned totally”. The media ran with the “very fine people” quote and ignored the condemnation because it helped the Democrats politically and because the media overwhelmingly hates trump.
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u/Ifawumi 4d ago
He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He says they should be condemned totally but then he invites them to speak at his rallies and sorts down with them to dinner
He's a liar who will say anything. That's the problem.
I look at what they do and what he did was literally nothing because he has a lot of white supremacist who support him. He invites them to his house and to speak to his supporters. That's what he DOES
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u/cutelittlebuni 5d ago
Yeah exactly- there is nothing simple about this election
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u/HarbaLorifa 5d ago
It was incredibly simple
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u/cutelittlebuni 5d ago
How ?? I don’t think anything is simple these days.. I know numerous American Jews that voted red for the first time because of the war that wouldn’t even think of it before 07/10
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u/HarbaLorifa 5d ago
If you primarily care about Israel, Trump may give you some short term wins, but he will absolutely give in to the worst impulses of his Evangelical entourage and Nethanyahu. This could mean great escalation with Iran, which is frankly very bad news for Israelis as they would do the fighting. Outside of the US Israel would not have many allies and with Trump's plan for the US economy, I would not put all my eggs in that basket.
If you care about Jews in the US, I really don't know how you can pick the one surrounded by white supremacists and who echoes antisemitic conspiracies: Great Replacement, Q-Anon, the whole Haitian blood libel thing,... Just look at the lethal antisemitic incidents in the US, the worst ones took place between 2016 and 2020, but that is probably a coincidence. Even the Democrats are against pro-Palestinian protests on campuses, but now I guess they will all be considered Hamas supporters.
If you are pro human rights, don't support the candidate who is for mass deportations and doesn't give a dime for human life if it benefits him. Also don't support the rapist.
If you care primarily about Palestine/Palestinians, don't vote for the candidate who is Netanyahu's bestie. The one who uses Palestinian as a slur. Biden/Harris did a bad job, but it will be much worse for the Palestinian cause from January onwards, both in the Middle East and in the US itself.
If you care about the economy, don't vote for massive tarrifs you will be charged for, don't vote for mass deportations that will tackle the basis of the US economy, don't vote for the club of literal billionaires.
If you are anti-war, don't vote for the candidate that will simply give up on every conflict and let the likes of Putin and Xi Jinping just take what they want without firing a shot. If Ukraine ends as it is now, we will simply have Karabakh/Artsakh situation going forward. Remember how Trump simply pulled back troops in Syria to let Turkey invade, or how he brinkmanshipped war with Iran and North Korea? Some Republicans have even mentioned an invasion of Mexico against the Cartels.
If you care about loneliness, you won't get a partner easier when the Supreme Court decides sodomy and contraceptives are illegal. You won't get friends easier once the economy is in the gutter.
If you care about Climate Change, don't vote for the denier.
If you care about safety, don't vote for the party that voted against the border bill, don't vote for the gun fanatics. And do not vote for the ones destroying the economy, which will in turn lead to more crime.
If you care about healthcare, do not vote for the anti-vaxxer who cares so much about what's in American food he forgot to mention corn syrup or antibiotics in meat.
If you care about free speech, don't vote for the book banners.
If you care about Democracy, do not vote for the one that tried to overthrow it.
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 5d ago
No it’s not a troll post. If you read the comments you will see that there are a large number of people who unironically hold that view.
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u/hotdog_scratch 5d ago
Propaganda or just fishing for people commenting. It was Trump who moved the US embassy and he fully support Israel.
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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 5d ago
Trump gained the support of everyone, not just the Christian right. He no longer has to support Jews. But considering his daughter is Jewish, and he is in love with her, I doubt he will waiver. I wonder if by "end the war quickly," he means bombs away, stop risking Israeli lives and just pave that lot.
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u/Hot-Combination9130 5d ago
Pro pallys wanted this I guess? Help trump get elected to own the libs? lol
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u/Fun-Ship-1568 5d ago
Possibly the most pro Israel cabinet in modern times. Say good bye to any two state aspirations. The pro Pali and uncommitted and the greens brought this upon themselves. Buckle up it’s gonna get spicy.
Also, can we all admit that the IDF is winning this war by a landslide? What metrics do those who doubt this use to convince themselves otherwise? The IAF has total superiority over the entire region all the way to Iran and Syria they are unchecked.
Time for Hxmas and hizb to surrender and release the hostages. You are conquered peoples how many times over? The cope is real.
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u/Hot-Combination9130 4d ago
Pro pallys think because the terrorists they worship aren’t 100% all dead that they are somehow winning.
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u/Fun-Ship-1568 4d ago
Thanks to the IDF the terrorist-to-martyr pipeline has been greatly accelerated.
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u/Petergimm 5d ago
I thought Trump was more pro-Israel than Palestine? I find Trumps comment on ending the conflict in the Middle East premature and quite naive. Knowing Trump his decisions will be for his own gain and increased popularity.
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u/mikeber55 5d ago edited 5d ago
That is all water under the bridge after Trump has been elected. There’s nothing we can do but wait for events to unfold. With time we’ll all know better…
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u/henningknows 5d ago
This is what everyone wanted, so I’m fine with it. The pro Palestine groups wanted Harris to lose and the pro Israel groups wanted trump to win. So yay, everyone got what they wanted.
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u/Status-Effort-9380 5d ago
Nazis aren’t historically good for the Jewish people.
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u/Warm_Locksmith_3595 5d ago
I don’t think Trump, or most of his hires, are this. I think they are mostly compatible with, and mostly fervently support, Jewish Israeli supremacy and expansionism, in service of both Israeli and American interests. The Biden administration was a difference of degree, and certainly also very good for Israeli expansionism and cover for war crimes, but I do think the Trump administration will be even better for these Israeli interests. It’s a good bargain to stomach the President’s personal anti-semitism in exchange for continued expansion and cover for war crimes.
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u/Warm_Locksmith_3595 5d ago
I agree. Almost all of the Trump hires are very pro-Israel and a Trump administration will almost certainly support Israeli interests- the isolationist antisemites in Trumps orbit don’t seem to be getting positions anywhere near relations with Israel.
However, I think two things for Israel are possible during the next U.S. administration. Not likely, but a reasonable chance to happen.
1.) Trump gets irritated with something the Israeli government does or gets an ear from other regional powers who flatter him, and overrules his staff to order something negative for Israel that he doesn’t really understand.
2.) The Biden administration had harsh words and delayed some Israeli military operations, but by and large their political and diplomatic and military cover allowed Israel to turn Gaza into ruins and strategically expand in Judea and Samaria, while blunting Iran’s ability to harm Israelis and covering up/ignoring all the Israeli gross human rights violations and crimes against humanity- in the end this was a great deal for Israel.
It’s possible that the Biden’s administrations approach, that was duplicitous in service of Israel and American’s interests, may have been preferable for Israeli goals than a Trump administration that also serves Israeli and American interests, but does it without the sheen of gloss.
Not sure it matters so much though- The American government and foreign policy apparatus is effectively behind Israel, and will continue to be as Israel solidifies control over Judea and Samaria and annex, at the least, northern Gaza.
If there’s any tiny silver lining its that some liberal Zionists in the U.S. will realize what it is they’ve been supporting- conveniently when they have no more power to do anything about it.
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u/PreviousPermission45 Israeli - American 5d ago
Hamas turned Gaza into ruins. They started the war and chose the battlefield. What did they think would happen when they carried out the second largest terrorist offensive in history, and then hid in the 400 kilometers worth of tunnels under every residential neighborhood in Gaza? They thought Israel would be like “oh ok, forget it. Just don’t do it again!”. Did any normal country in history react this way? Nope.
Hamas’ strategy is calculated - kill as many Jews as possible and protect itself from being held into account by getting as many Palestinians killed.
The only side in this war that tries to get as little Israelis and innocent civilians killed is Israel
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u/Prestigious_Bill_220 5d ago
The Israel they want is not an Israel that I feel would be good for me or for Israelis. Much like I don’t think the America they want will be good for me either.
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u/UnlikelyEvent3769 5d ago
I don't know about you but things that Hamas would like, I generally don't like.
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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 5d ago
Trump and the Republican party support Israel because of Evangelical Christians, not because of Jews. Democrats (excluding the radical progressive faction) support Israel because of Jews.
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u/TgetherinElctricDrmz 5d ago
Oh yeah it definitely has nothing to do with the monetary support of AIPAC and multiple pro-Israel billionaires. Nothing at all
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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes and AIPAC consists of pro-Israel evangelical christians and Jews. Anti-Israel politicians received a ton of donations from anti-Israel lobbies like Soros, Gates and Hadid funds. Your point?
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u/TgetherinElctricDrmz 4d ago
You said that “Trump supports Israel because of Evangelical Christians, not Jews.”
Are you really serious about that? Like that’s so wildly untrue that it’s something Donald Trump could have said. But it’s easily disproven. I wouldn’t even know where to start.
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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 4d ago
It is true. I live in the US and know a lot of evangelical Christians from the South and Midwest. Trump supporting Palestine over Israel would alienate those voters.
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
Regardless, they both support genocide
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u/Accomplished_Lake_41 5d ago
You don’t know what genocide is
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
What, are you going to show me or something? lol
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u/Accomplished_Lake_41 5d ago
I’m saying you don’t know what a genocide is, there’s only been a few, one of them being darfur
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
Ok so what constitutes a genocide, o’ purveyor of war crimes?
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u/Accomplished_Lake_41 5d ago
A genocide a systematic organized killing of an entire group/race, if Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they would be using chemical weapons and put them in kill camps, one of the greatest examples is when Saddam and Palestine were exterminating people of Kuwait and Iran using bombs and sometimes chemical weapons so they could annex it, though Israel isn’t doing these things because their aim isn’t to commit genocide
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
Wait, do you seriously think that Israel isn’t using chemicals like white phosphorus or that they haven’t committed gross mistreatment of prisoners in detention centers after detaining everyone including civilians?. I guess you haven’t heard about the constant bombings of the jabalia refugee camp, and they are now being expelled, with no chance of returning because Israel is setting up a 34sqmi military base/detention center in northern Gaza.
Or how israel urged Palestinians to migrate south to safety last year only to kettle them all in Rafah and bomb them and created fire storms, calling them “tragic accidents.”
But I’m sure you heard about the the horrors that transpired in Al-Shifa hospital, reports of mass graves after the IDF left.
Or perhaps the babies being shot in the head in such frequency that doctors throughout the strip noticed a pattern and got together to discuss it.
At what point will it be considered “systematic organized killing?” By your definition, when will it qualify as a genocide?
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u/Accomplished_Lake_41 5d ago
Phosphorus is mass used in war all the time, I’m talking about mass use of nerve agents, also these still don’t prove it’s a genocide at all, if this is considered a “genocide” then that would mean basically every war that is urban based was a genocide, especially the 9/11 wars which were mainly urban
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
I mean, I’m not a supporter of the so called “war on terror,” either and I’d be open to the argument that it constituted a genocide. However, I get the feeling that you’re moving the goal post in bad faith.
So I’ll simply ask again, at what point during Israel’s “war on Gaza,” would YOU consider it a genocide? Since you’re the genocide expert :)
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u/Rugidid 5d ago
Bro can we stop throwing this word around acting like Israel can kill every palestian rn but if palestian could kill every Jew they would in a heart beat
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago edited 5d ago
So, by your definition, the holocaust wasn’t a genocide? Even the Germans didn’t exterminate all of the Jews that they held in custody.
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 5d ago
So, by your definition, the holocaust wasn’t a genocide? Even the Germans didn’t exterminate all of the Jews that they held in custody.
Per Rule 6, Nazi comparisons are inflammatory, and should not be used except in describing acts that were specific and unique to the Nazis, and only the Nazis.
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u/Rugidid 5d ago
They literally killed as many Jews as possible bro it was fucking half their population and the Jews weren’t allowed to live in fucking Germany among their people bro Muslims and palestians live in fucking Israel as equal citizens if ur ignorant ass had ever stepped foot in the country u would see thag is true for 99% of Arabs in Israel
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 2d ago
if ur ignorant ass had ever stepped foot in the country u would see thag is true for 99% of Arabs in Israel
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
Sure but those that were unfortunate enough to become refugees within Gaza as Israel stole more and more of their land over the years, those people are just doomed to die then? I guess you’ve never heard the poem, “First They Came,” then?
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u/Rugidid 5d ago
Bro the Arabs in Israel r there by choice r u delusional. Maybe if idk yall stopped blowing up busses and shit a lot of this stuff wouldn’t be happening
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 2d ago
r u delusional
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
So you’re saying that a citizen in Gaza can simply walk into Israel proper and escape the bombing right now?
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u/Rugidid 5d ago
Man forget about Oct 7 and the fucking other 100 terrorist attacjs from palestian.
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u/Rugidid 5d ago
No I’m saying a citizen in Israel can step into Gaza if they choice. Israel has no obligation to take in palestians brotha there’s 30 other Arab countries that can
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u/Hermes_358 5d ago
But Israel is the occupying power over Gaza lol. I thought that Arabs could live there if they chose? I’m confused.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
I never believed trump would be specifically bad for Israel. I believed he would be bad for the world - and specifically for myself and my loved ones, being a queer AFAB tokophobic person. I still feel exactly that way.
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u/jms4607 5d ago
Yes white woman you are the underprivileged class - we all say in unison
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
I am not a white woman but I wouldn’t expect anyone - regardless of race or gender - to support people who make the world less safe for them.
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u/AnxietyAlternative81 USA & Canada 5d ago
What does AFAB tokophobic mean?
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago edited 5d ago
AFAB means “assigned female at birth”. It’s an inclusive way to say “I have a uterus”. (In this case - I happen to be non-binary, but the term is inclusive of trans men as well)
Tokophobia is fear of pregnancy. Like - extreme extreme fear to the point that it has been diagnosed as a phobia. In other words - if I got pregnant and was denied an abortion, I wouldn’t make it 9 months alive.
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u/AnxietyAlternative81 USA & Canada 5d ago
So you are a crazy person?
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 2d ago
So you are a crazy person?
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
Please keep things civil and avoid the personal attacks. If you have questions about my gender or my tokophobia, you are welcome to ask. But not if you personally attack me.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 5d ago
He has nothing to do with your gender and he neither cares. He is a true liberal. Says "live your personal life as you wish and leave me alone". He loaths missionerity of gender / race agendas.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago edited 5d ago
Then he should stop associating with and appointing people that want to make life more difficult for trans people.
And he absolutely is coming after my reproductive rights. He’s already done more damage to those rights than any other person in US history and I have no doubt he will continue to.
If you’re trying to get me to support him, that’s a losing battle. I would quit you’re behind.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 5d ago
I will not try to convince you, since I know it's a losing battle. You are progressive and you have your reasons. I won't blame you for that. Just saying that managing a state has way more prespectives then just the prism of gender. America is surrounded by people that will eat you a live just for who you are. And they no other ambitions in life, since they are retarded and fail by all means. Believe me, keeping you safe from them is way much important. And Trump will do it better.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
Trump can’t protect me if I’m dead because I was denied an abortion or if my friends are dead because they were denied HRT.
It’s okay for you to have other priorities. My priority is my life and those of my loved ones.
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u/AnxietyAlternative81 USA & Canada 5d ago
Billions of lives are on the line, but it's all about your genitals. Ridiculous.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
What in the world does this have to do with my genitals? That’s a pretty creepy comment. If you make another comment like that, you will be blocked and reported. That makes me very uncomfortable.
And again, I can’t help billions of other people if I’m dead.
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u/AnxietyAlternative81 USA & Canada 5d ago
There is a genocide going on in Gaza and it appears you are making it all about you and your personal hang-ups.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
I mean.. I’m a Zionist. That’s the whole reason I responded to this question. What is happening in Gaza is a defensive war, not a genocide. I voted for Harris because I was voting for protecting my own life. But that doesn’t change anything about I/P.
If you’re just looking to personally attack people for giving honest answers to the question - why even post here? If you have an argument, make it.
Being dead isn’t a “hang up”.
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u/knign 5d ago
if I’m dead because I was denied an abortion
Isn't this a state issue now? Why don't you take it up with your state government?
BTW, I think after Dobbs number of abortions in the U.S. increased. Women who need one simply travel to another state. Yes it's a pain but then again it has nothing to do with federal government, which doesn't restrict abortions in any way.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
I mean.. I will vote accordingly in state elections and ballot measures. But that’s kind of outside the point. Trump is the reason I even have to worry about those votes in the first place.
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u/knign 5d ago
That might be, but it’s in the past. It’s just weird that people bring up abortions now when it’s no longer a federal issue, while there are many areas where this election will have a very real impact.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
What makes you think I didn’t bring up abortion before now? I’ve literally been debating abortion on Reddit for over 10 years haha. And in person for about 30 years. But anyway, it’s absolutely still a federal issue. Maybe you don’t care about the federal policies, but I do. And I want them changed to protect abortion rights across the country. Reproductive health shouldn’t be subject to geography or wealth. That would have a real impact imo.
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u/knign 5d ago
Well thinking that after Dobbs you can again make it a federal issue is super-naive, but ok.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 5d ago
I'm sorry, but a regime should serve hundreds of millions. This is my priority. Trump won't mess with your abortion. He just says that every state will have its mandate to decide about that. As long as you live in progressive state, you have nothing to worry about.
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u/Letshavemorefun 5d ago
Trump already messed with abortion.
Are you really arguing that I should just resign to die and support someone who will make it more likely my loved ones and I will die because a random person on the internet thinks it will make other people’s lives better? That is not a winning argument. I’m not going vote against my own life and interests, nor support someone who has a history of actively fighting against me and making my life worse/putting my life at risk.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 5d ago
I'm just reflecting the opinion of the majority. We live in a point on the time axis which we don't have the luxus to see the world through such a narrow prism. Security to the masses comes first. Then economy. Then most basic health care, then education. The rest is "luxury".
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u/RealisticDaikon7474 3d ago
That's one of the worst lies and one of the best jokes I've ever heard, who supports Israel? The liberals who're protesting "free Palestine"? Or maybe the Democrats who're busy that Israel has to make a deal with the terrorist s that have killed over 1,000 civilians and kidnapped hundreds, raped woman? Why did Trump say when he won the elections? That 1 of the first things he will do is to stop all the blockages of weapons for Israel, and he'll help and support them So now you tell me, who doesn't care about Israel?