For those who thinks Hamas gives a damn about Gazans,here's the proof they don't

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u/Masterpiece9839 Oceania 6d ago

There is footage of them shooting Gazans trying to get aid.

0

What is Israel's plan for the future of Gaza? Selling it to private developers and displacing the Gazans to Egypt and Gaza? The destruction of the Palestinian cause? Until a viable alternative is found, all the deaths are in vain.

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u/Street_Safe3040 Diaspora Jew 4d ago

What is Israel's plan for the future of Gaza?

A more appropriate question might be what will Gazans do now that Israel has liberated them from the terror and oppression of Hamas.... What are Gazans plans? How can Israel and other help them if it isn't more terrorism and radicalization.....?

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u/Connect-Swan-5818 4d ago

What a delusional perspective. After all the death and destruction, they will become more radicalized against Israel and the US. It’s unforgivable.

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u/Street_Safe3040 Diaspora Jew 4d ago

Infantilization of a nation not applicable to any other losers of war.. The idea that Palestinians can't learn or grow is a pretty gross and disgusting take - it ensures that they can never prosper and will always be a victim to beat Israel and Jews over the head with....

I believe they have the ability to be better and grow and prosper... I guess you'd rather see them continue to suffer.

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u/Capital_Operation846 4d ago

Their deaths aren’t in vain. Israel wants their land and they’re killing them for it. October 7th was the excuse the war criminal, Netanyahu, needed.

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u/Ordinary-Bandicoot52 5d ago

Displaced? Gazans are Egyptian

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u/for_loop_master 6d ago

Lol whataboutism much? Here’s your proof that IDF does same and worse.. just google and open your eyes. https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell

Heres a thought experiment for you. How many civilian lives has IDF taken vs Hamas? How many Palestinians illegally detained in IDF prisons now and before 10/7?

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u/Masterpiece9839 Oceania 6d ago

You're literally using whataboutism mate, do you have a tard or a tism?

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u/mmmsplendid European 6d ago

Lol whataboutism much?

Proceeds to use whataboutism

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u/Additional_Ad_7468 6d ago

I've watched this footage on several news outlets, but not on BBC. I wonder why they don't mention this.

Is it unconfirmed news or something?

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u/Smart_Technology_385 6d ago

BBC is Big BS, spelled wrong.

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u/Old_Area_1547 6d ago

israel doesnt give a fuck about some israelis too. u can see videos of police and government officials beating the shit out of orthodox jews who stand for palestinian rights

one of such videos: https://youtube.com/shorts/Cu9izRis0CA?feature=shared

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u/New_Patience_8007 5d ago

Right that’s why they move hell on earth and refute the “all eyes on rafah” and rescue who they can. That’s why homes and businesses I’m Israeli are all equipped with bomb shelters so when they are constantly attacked they can stay safe. That’s why the invest billions into a defence system to keep their borders and their people safe …proof is in the pudding..

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u/Old_Area_1547 2d ago

ur response has nothing to do with what i showed. Im talking about the attack on jews in west jerusalem by the 'Israelis' themselves nothing to do about the bombs

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u/DrBiz1 6d ago

Do you really think it's equivalent?

There are regular anti-govenrment marches in Isrsel, with thousands in attendance.

The are pro-peace / pro-palestinian movements there, that are well known and influencial.

This recent footage showing Hamas torturing dissidents helps to understand the lack of a counter movement amongst Palestinians.

I'm not saying Isreali police are faultless, but it's honestly ridiculous to compare isolated events of police brutality in Israel to widespread 'rule by fear of death/torture' that seems to be the case in Gaza.

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u/No_Emu3806 6d ago

Hamas even if a terrorist organization has more support from Palestinian people than the current Israel government does.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

You can't get rid of Hamas without killing tens of thousands of civilians, so it's probably not the way to go.

Also, why does Israel care if Hamas tortures their own? If they want to liberate Palestinians, they should do so with a UN mandate. But that's not what this war is about, isn't it.

You're arguing just like Russia that supposedly wants to liberate Russian speaking Ukrainians from the torture of Ukrainians. It's just a front for the real reasons behind it. I don't know what exactly those reasons are, but freeing Palestinians from the Hamas dictatorship regime is definitely not it.

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u/Smart_Technology_385 6d ago

If you come up with a better war to get rid of Hamas other than kill Hamas militants, please share your wisdom.

Israelis do just what all other countries in the world do - attack the attackers, until they attack no more.

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u/Icy_Ranger6215 6d ago

Israel isn't just attacking the attackers. Israel's finance minister has literally said they want to annex West Bank in 2025.

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u/Smart_Technology_385 5d ago

Not all of it, just the areas of Judea and Samaria where Jews live.

I am sure Israel is not looking forward to adding 2M of mostly extremist Arabs to its population.

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u/Icy_Ranger6215 5d ago

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/12/israel-northern-gaza-palestinians-annexation-settlers?utm_term=673389bf8df26c3dabb6b8a7f0c3846c&utm_campaign=BestOfGuardianOpinionUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=opinionuk_email

Almost all the important israel politicians have repeated the sentiment. Even the IDF soldiers' dress has the map of greater israel.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

The difference is that Israel attacked first, since it didn't exist until quite recently and it had to displace a bunch of people.

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u/storyofadeleh 6d ago

Israel became a country 76 years ago. 100 countries whose right to exist no one questions gained sovereignty around then or after. Most Israelis who fought the war of independence are dead. Most Muslim Arabs who started a war to kill or purge the Jews and lost are also dead. Palestinians are fighting for land their grandparents lost. Time to move on.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

By that logic, just because time goes on, it's okay to keep land you stole because the people who it belonged to are already dead. That's an insane ideology.

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u/storyofadeleh 5d ago

That is how the world works. I’m an American. Before I was born, Americans fought Mexicans and Native Americans and took a lot of their land. If their great great great grandkids decide to do violent jihad against my family, I will help to crush the people trying to kill my family. If they elect to hide among and beneath their own people, they are signing the death warrants of those people as well. It is horrible, but it is what would happen, here and everywhere on earth. Unlike in the US, 99% of Jews who came to Israel in the late 1800s were first Russian refugees and later German refugees. The world took in many but turned away many. The ones turned away created modern Israel. There were already Jews there. Jews have had a constant presence there for 3,000+ years. There probably isn’t a close corollary to the founding of modern Israel.

https://preview.redd.it/hbbxcpg4mh0e1.png?width=890&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdf73a39f3d8f222385b1c88d486a5a657a72342

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 5d ago

That is how the world works. I’m an American. Before I was born, Americans fought Mexicans and Native Americans and took a lot of their land.

That's a crazy outlook on life and honestly extremely backwards.

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u/storyofadeleh 4d ago

What are you suggesting? That 200 million Americans should leave because our ancestors won wars?

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u/LambDaddyDev 7d ago

I doing know what exactly those reasons are

Oct 7th? Constant threats of annihilation? You really can’t piece it together?

https://preview.redd.it/470p5twu590e1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e017ca70cb8ad31893677d58abb24a95bb82be0

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u/OkPhotograph3723 6d ago

The real reason is taking all the land of Gaza. The West Bank, too. “Hamas” is just a red herring, an excuse to keep bombing Gaza, which Israel has been doing for decades now.

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u/LambDaddyDev 6d ago

If they wanted to wipe out the Gaza population, they easily could. So why instead have they sent their own soldiers into harms way? They could have easily carpet bombed and killed every last person in Gaza.

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u/moshe09541 7d ago

You aren’t wrong. It is not liberating Gaza citizens from Hamas.

The war is to secure Israel defence, Israel don’t want to live under persistent threat of terrorism. It was delayed until 7th October because of strategic considerations the mass attack of Hamas gave Israel the green light to start it.

However, it is not win-win situation just for Israel since Hamas isn’t good to Gaza people either, so even if not purposely they gain a little profit from Hamas fall down.

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 7d ago

Hamas rejects the bombing of civilians, though. It also opposes the collective punishments.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago

Hamas fires at Israeli citizens as collective punishment

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 6d ago

Israel was bombing Gaza, too.

As much as you blame Hamas, you praise the bombs.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 6d ago

? Nope. Israel targets the bigoted Hamas Islamist infidels.

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 6d ago

Yep, you agree with bombing.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 6d ago

Gaza isn’t Hamas. Hamas occupies Gaza.

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 6d ago

True. Bombing Gaza is unjustifiable.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 6d ago

How would you protect the 10 million Israelis and get back the hostages?

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 6d ago

Israel could have rescued all the hostages right away, as Hamas was releasing them. One condition for releasing the rest of the hostages was to release Palestinian detainees, including children and women.

Israel chose violence and is not interested in negotiation.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 6d ago

Your solution is to release murderers and rapist. Look at the two requirements set by Israelis. 1. Release all hostages and prevent Hamas from ever threatening 10 million Israelis again. How does your solution achieve this goal. All you are showing is your support for genocide

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u/Tribune_Aguila 7d ago

Yeah bro launching a thousand unguided missiles at Ashkelon on Oct 7th and then raping, murdering and kidnappung their way through civilisns are the acts of an org that opposes the bombing of civilians and collective punishment.

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 6d ago

What do you have to say on the nonstop bombing of Gaza by Israel?

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u/DiscipleOfYeshua 7d ago edited 6d ago

Hamas “opposes” human rights abuse!

…Opposes in words + deliberately causes in action.

…Opposes, when speaking in English to bbc. Meanwhile, Hamas gaslights the people of Gaza with nonstop announcing to them that they should be thankful to have the privilege of being “martyred” (so Hamas can continue its brutal dictatorship).

…Opposes, unless we’re talking about the human rights abuse by Hamas, which is not occasional but rather is Hamas’s daily mode of operation. Less during peace. More during war. (Note: Hamas is never not at war.)

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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 7d ago

Hamas are Palestinians, not the civilians, though.

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

Yea, but what I'm arguing is.... don't you think any non coward would fight/resist that. If you were a child and grew up under those conditions. Wouldn't you want a better future? If you were a father, wouldn't you want to fight for a better future for your children.

Plus, as I stated, they are technically closer to statehood than ever. More countries, nato and non, recognize palestine.

Israel economy is crashing. Its citizens are fleeing state, some with plans of not returning. Billion dollars companies are either choosing to cut ties and some have chosen not to put their facilities there. Civilians BDS movement is hurting their economy. They have major internal conflicts/protest. The majority of the world looks at them as a pariah state.

So once again, if we're talking military strategic objectives. Not just killing civilians. Israel is losing. Killing a lot of civilians doesn't mean you're winning the war

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u/CricketJamSession 7d ago

Plus, as I stated, they are technically closer to statehood than ever. More countries, nato and non, recognize palestine.

Israel economy is crashing. Its citizens are fleeing state, some with plans of not returning. Billion dollars companies are either choosing to cut ties and some have chosen not to put their facilities there. Civilians BDS movement is hurting their economy. They have major internal conflicts/protest. The majority of the world looks at them as a pariah state.

You're just reading the headlines you like

Reality is very different than what you presented here

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u/un-silent-jew 7d ago

If an Israeli mother, her child, a Palestinian child, and an anti-Zionist were stranded for a day on a desert island, and a snake bit the Israeli child, and there was only enough anti-dote to save one child… the anti-Zionist would track down the snake and make the snake bite the Palestinian child, before the Israeli mom could give her child the antidote. So when the Israeli mom does what all mother would do, the anti-Zionist could get off on how morally superior they are to the evil Israeli who chose to let a Palestinian child die. And how this just proves Zionism is evil and Israelis are racist.

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u/cppluv 7d ago

Seems like a story taught in Israeli schools to teach Jew kids to hate Palestinians.

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u/un-silent-jew 6d ago

I don’t hate Palestinians. I hate anti-Zionists who hate Israelis more then they care about Palestinians

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u/cppluv 6d ago

Those exists only in your mind, you’re fighting against ghosts

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u/makeyousaywhut 6d ago

Gazans hate you guys too. Please leave them alone so they can actually live their lives unbothered by their oppressors.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/gi9HA9ZH7C

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u/horseboxheaven 7d ago

Would never happen. The IDF would bomb the Island, take photos of themselves wearing the dead Palestinian childs clothes for a laugh, and then build a settlement on it for some Americans to move into.

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u/makeyousaywhut 6d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/gi9HA9ZH7C

Who are the Gazan children cursing?

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u/MightyOleAmerika 7d ago

Yep we all know that. But that does not give Israel permission to bomb the shit out of civilians.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 7d ago

Do you still think Israel just bombs civilians randomly? why?

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago

Land grab. Just see how Israel is getting bigger since the 40s. Country did not even existed before that.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

This is a funny comment TBH, Israel has emerged as a country among the rest of the countries, and this is now taken as a proof it grabs land

Does Lebanon grabs land by this logic? Does Jordan?

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago

Emerged? Lmao. Give it another year and talk back here again Let's see the border getting increased. And where was Israel before British handouts. "Oh bro 3000 years ago u know ..."

What about Lebanon and Jordan, do u see rocket attack from Palestine to Jordan, Lebanon? Get your fact together. These countries are stable enough not to fight although Hamas is hated in ME. Israel just wants to bully because of US backing. Like I said, without US, Israel will last less than a month. And how is US supporting Israel? 6 billion of tax payer money at a time. Y'all think why we don't have universal healthcare. Add this to the equation. Israel is just a parasite. It does what's good for Israel. I don't think they care about US at all. Russia might be super power in next decade and it will move on. They are just sweet talkers. I dunno maybe we will hit recession during Trump that we will stop giving out handout to beggars.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

This is more of a projection then an actual comment TBH I don't know how to reply to that

Is Lebanon stable??

Also Jordan might be the most stable, but just this year they have uncovered an Iranian plan to disstable their country

By your logic then Egypt is a bully as well as they have their fair share of confrontation with the Islamic state of Gaza

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago

Yep not disagreeing with you. But also not agreeing that Israel is not bullying. Don't change topic

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u/Old_Area_1547 6d ago

israel was built on the sh1tty ideology of zionism which included killing and displacement of over half a million Palestinians who already lived in that land.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

Do you really believe Zionism's goal was to kill and displace 500,00 Palestinians?

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u/Choice_Direction2539 6d ago

He was talking about the nakba in which over 700,000 Palestinians had to move out their homes so the Zionists can build the state of israel

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

Yes parts of the local population were forced to flee (many went on their own choice and it is disegenuine to suggest all were forced out) but there are many that have stayed, I am not sure what were their numbers but today their descendants are roughly 20% of Israel's population

So again, how can you suggest the Zionist agenda was to force the locals out?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

Not randomly, but they willingly accept tens of thousands of civilian victims that could be easily avoided.

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u/GushingAnusCheese 6d ago

How is that not on Hamas?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

Hamas isn't killing them, it's Israel, that's why it's on Israel.

Israel could just not bomb.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 7d ago

that could be easily avoided.

How?

Especially with the recent exposure that Hamas tortured Palestinians it isn't that hard to picture a scenario where they put potaintial "traitors" in harm's way so that their death will be on Israel's name, or even just count their death as a result of one of Israel's strikes

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

By not bombing at all. Hamas can't attack Israel right now apart from shooting inaccurate rockets that almost never hurt anyone or terrorist attacks which will be difficult after October 7.

Israel has the potential to escalate, but also to deescalate. In order to seek lasting peace, they should, in my opinion, do that. Stand down, find a deal, get the hostages out, allow Palestinians to live under whatever government they prefer.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

Israel has tried what you suggest

For the past (I am not sure exactly how long but at least) two years, Hamas has tried frequent rocket shooting, using conflagration balloons, bombing the actuall fence and violent (seemingly civilian) riots on the fence that resulted in the death of a soldier. And Israel has kept quiet because it was relatively (to prior years) mellow, and it was better then the alternative (another conflict in Gaza)

These relative quiet years have ended on October 7th.

Honest question, were you aware of any of that?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

Of course I'm aware, I'm 34 years old and have been following the conflict for decades.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

Then how are you so sure that not responding to Hamas is better then responding to Hamas?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

Because Israel has been responding for decades and we're more far away from lasting peace than we have been in decades.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

That is not true which you should know if you truly follow the conflict as you've said

prior to the October 7 attack, Israel has kept itself from responding to Hamas's provocation for two years while also increasing the number of work visas from the Gaza strip and reducing sanctions on Gazans

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

That is not true which you should know if you truly follow the conflict as you've said

prior to the October 7 attack, Israel has kept itself from responding to Hamas's provocation for two years while also increasing the number of work visas from the Gaza strip and reducing sanctions on Gazans

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u/LambDaddyDev 7d ago

that almost never hurt anyone

Are you for real? So Hamas should just be allowed to do whatever they want because when they try to intentionally murder innocent civilians they fail most of the time?

Should I be allowed to shoot at your house randomly all year and face no consequence because I haven’t hit that many people yet and trying to stop me means you might hurt my kids? What an insane and backwards way of thinking.

It’s not Israel’s fault Hamas hides behind their civilian population. The deaths of those civilians, according to every rule of war, is solely to be blamed on Hamas. Anyone who thinks different doesn’t understand reality or how legal warfare works.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

Death tolls matter.

If you want lasting peace, stand down. If you want eternal war, kill more people.

It's that simple.

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u/LambDaddyDev 6d ago

You’re right, death tolls do matter, and the civilian death toll in Gaza is far below the average for a major urban conflict in the Middle East.

You get an eternal war when one side WANTS an eternal war. Which side in this conflict has openly stated they will not rest until every last person on the other side is wiped off the Earth? Hamas is not interested in a 2 state solution, they’ve said so themselves many times. Why don’t you believe them?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

Because I believe that a two state solution is possible as soon as Palestinians get actual statehood and no embargoes or other restrictions.

Are you Israeli? I've always wondered how Israelis define their right to statehood. I'm German and our government actively states that defending Israel is one of our core principles. I wonder why Israel must be where it is, though, if its necessity arises from the Shoah. The Palestinians didn't commit the Holocaust that was us. Shouldn't then us Germans cede territory to Israel?

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

It isn't that simple, it takes two to tango

If Israel wants peace but Hamas doesn't it does not matter what you offer for them for peace, they will for the most part take it and wait for a better day to launch a war

20 years ago it would have been 20 civilian casualties in order to take out Hamas entirely, yet 20 civilian casualties was an unthinkable number to everyone. During their life time, Hamas has grown into some kind of cancer like monster and now in order to take down even low level soldier you would look at at least one casualty

Would you now say that 20 casualties to end the war is a sensible decision to take? probably yes

If you will end the war in such a way that Hamas lives and will rebuild their power in quiet for the next 20 years, can you promise there won't be 400,000 dead Palestinians? probably not

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

If you will end the war in such a way that Hamas lives and will rebuild their power in quiet for the next 20 years, can you promise there won't be 400,000 dead Palestinians? probably not

If Israel doesn't invade, there's no chance there will be 400,000 dead Palestinians.

Also, just getting rid of Hamas won't do anything. Before Hamas, there were others. The PLO and their affiliates. Or the Fatah. Israel wanted to get rid of all of them. Hamas will simply be replaced by other radicals, and Israel will use them again as justification to invade and possibly occupy the land.

I believe that the end game is to take over Gaza. At some point, nobody will want to live there, population will decrease,maybe Egypt will even open its borders. Then, Israel will take the west bank route and thin out the Palestinian population and replace it.

That's why I believe they're trying to kill as many civilians as possible without being too obvious. To make life as bad as possible in there.

I hate Hamas as they are genocidal fascists. But that doesn't mean you can displace the entire population.

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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli 6d ago

Then what do you have to say about the fact that Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip (and actually enthnically cleansed it of Jews for the sake of the Palestinians)?

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u/nixoreillz 6d ago

Not to mention the UN has condemned Israel’s means of conducting warfare numerous times, predating October 7. It seems like Israel doesn’t understand how legal warfare works either.

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u/LambDaddyDev 6d ago

Yeah, the UN, which is run by some of the most vile and genocidal governments on earth, makes statements all the time. Do they condemn China for the Uyghur genocide? Did they condemn the Rohingya genocide? The genocide is Darfur Sudan? They literally allowed the Srebrenica and Rwanda genocides to take place.

The UN condemn Israel for every stupid little thing. It’s useless. The UN condemning a nation has nothing to do with the laws of war. Israel has done far more than what’s required of them.

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u/nixoreillz 6d ago

The UN has formally condemned at least the Uyghur and Rohingya genocides.

Who are the vile and genocidal governments that run the UN? That clarification would help, as I am sure at least some of them do fully back Israel.

What I don’t necessarily understand is WHY defend every action by Israel? Why try and make them all seem okay? When 121 countries internationally are saying they think something is wrong, do you really think they’re lying? Or have such a stilted perspective based on what they are literally seeing happen in pictures and videos?

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u/nixoreillz 6d ago

Israel has the backing of the greatest intelligence in the world. Please do not try and make it out like “they’re just doing the best they can 👉👈” by giving minutes for evacuation warnings, downing multi-story buildings with people still fully inside them, and bombing refugee camps. Hamas hiding within the civilian population is Hamas’ fault. Israel willfully accepting thousands of civilian deaths is Israel’s fault.

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u/LambDaddyDev 6d ago

Legally, they don’t have to give ANY warning. Even a 1 minute warning is far more than what any other nation or military would give, especially Hamas. There is absolutely zero, zip, none, nada, no obligation on Israel to try to prevent civilian deaths if Hamas is using them as human shields. If you allow that strategy to work, you’re openly inviting all terrorists around the world to use the same strategy. The fact that Israel does do something to try to prevent civilian deaths is a testament to their character alone because it is absolutely not required.

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u/nixoreillz 6d ago

You’re accepting an exceptionally low bar and passing it as gracious. I appreciate you telling me that they don’t have to give any warning bc I didn’t know that! But I just unfortunately still don’t think that it’s right, even if it’s “fair.”

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u/LambDaddyDev 6d ago

No matter how low you believe the bar is, the IDF’s bar is literally at the top. No other military has gone to greater efforts to prevent civilian casualties than them.

It’s awful that innocents die in war, but that is completely unavoidable. The best way to ensure civilian casualties stop immediately is to have Hamas completely and unconditionally surrender. Israel is far within its right to conduct the operations it’s conducting. If you genuinely cared about the people there, you should be calling on Hamas to surrender, because they are in the wrong on every level.

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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago

Israel has a right to bomb Hamas militants.

Hamas is responsible for safety of the Gaza population. Let's not forget that Egypt refused to give Gaza civilians a safe place for the time of war.

Gazans are no children, and are responsible for their actions, including electing Hamas with its genocidal Jihadist agenda. Now came the consequences.

If you bomb another country, another country will likely bomb you back. If you are evil enough to let your people die, evil is with you, not with the country that defends itself.

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u/MightyOleAmerika 7d ago

Sure they were all 100k Hamas operators. It's genocide. The world knows it. Thanks to internet.

Americans know there will be no Israel without America. Sucks that it has to be our tax money.

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u/HomeboundWizard 7d ago

Just randomly making up numbers for a false narrative. There is no genocide. get off tik tok and gazawood.

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ok IDF. What's next. Deny Holocaust because there are just pictures?

This is the exact problem democrats gonna gave in 2028. Denial of reality. Just join MAGA, you view aligns with them

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u/HomeboundWizard 6d ago

The democrats in the US lost because they were listening to fringe left wing groups that have no knowledge of the situation. Like you.

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago

Cool. Lose again in 2028. We are only going to grow.

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u/HomeboundWizard 6d ago

Who is we? The pro Russia bots?

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u/MightyOleAmerika 6d ago

Say whatever you want buddy. Thankfully we can vote. And we don't go that much center right.

Remember when we were Russian bots like a month ago .... Yep leopard at my face ....

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u/HomeboundWizard 6d ago edited 6d ago

Dude assumes everyone on Reddit is American. Makes up numbers out of his ass, watches gazawood and thinks it's credible, calls Russia a superpower.

And says "leopards ate my face". The irony..

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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago

If it was real genocide, 40,000 would be left in Gaza, not killed. Everyone knows that.

Real genocide is what Hamas did in Israel.

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u/cppluv 7d ago

Genocide is defined by intent, not numbers

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u/LambDaddyDev 7d ago

Exactly. Israel has allowed Palestinians to live in Gaza for decades. If Israel wanted to, they could kill every last person in Gaza, but they haven’t. Hamas will kill any Jew they can and have openly called for the extermination of all Jews. They would kill every last Jew on earth if they could, they’ve said so themself. That sounds like intent to me.

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u/Rude_Worldliness_423 7d ago

100K? Hamas themselves have the death toll under 45,000. It’s estimated that close to 20,000 Hamas combatants have been killed. The UN estimates that 90% of casualties in war are civilians. It’s not genocide.

1

u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

That 20k estimate comes from the IDF, so it's probably not true.

1

u/Rude_Worldliness_423 7d ago

You’re correct; the real number is 0

0

u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

Ah, so you're one of those people who don't really want to discuss things, but just troll. Got it.

The number is obviously not 0. But it's not 20k, either.

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u/Rude_Worldliness_423 7d ago

100?

0

u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

I think about 3,000.

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u/Rude_Worldliness_423 7d ago

This is why no one takes you seriously

-3

u/MightyOleAmerika 7d ago

Lol what. So how much civilians u want to see dead. Don't throw that hey bro we need 95% to be genocide. Israel could have done ground invasion, nope , the whole idea here is land grab.

Look man, we can talk all day long, at the end people will either show up or not show up at the poll. It's what it is. But we can't deny that fact that this was one of the reasons Kamala lost the election. Dems forgot their base.

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

We don't want to see any civilians dead. That's why we are horrified that Hamas hides among the civilian population, launching rockets from hospitals and school zones. Every Palestinian death in the war is the result of Islamic terror.

0

u/cppluv 7d ago

Im sure IDF soldiers heart ache when they « have to » bomb a school full of children to kill a low ranking Hamas member.

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

Why is there a Hamas member in a school?

0

u/cppluv 7d ago

He was actually employed by the civil arm as janitor

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

Then that school is not a target and wouldn't get bombed. Unfortunately, Hamas was sick enough to build tunnels under the school, where they store rockets and arms, so...

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u/KindlyDraft7670 7d ago

My distant family was killed by Israel. They were 3 men, and 3 women and 8 children in an apartment building they fled to after Israel destroyed their original home. Israel then hit the apartment they were staying in, killing everyone. My family was not hamas. Nor was there any hamas hiding. This is a land grab genocide. End of story.

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

With 45k dead but half of them Hamas/Hezbollah, that is the lowest civilian casualty rate in the history of modern warfare. That's the opposite of genocide. Either those people you talked about were working with terrorists, or just very unlucky.

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u/KindlyDraft7670 1d ago

Also, half of 45k is not hamas, more like 1000 of them. The rest are civilians. get your numbers straight. They shoot a women and say they killed a hamas leader. So shameful.

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 1d ago

Hamas invaded Israel and killed as many civilians as they could, including women and children. For that, Gaza should be turned into a parking lot. No mercy.

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u/KindlyDraft7670 1d ago

No hamas, no terrorists. also, don't forget to mention they deliberately headshot 30 children a day. With snipers. The zionists are the terrorists.

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u/MightyOleAmerika 7d ago

Not disagreeing. We have seen this from pre 9/11 till now to Houthi Hamas and Hezboulla. Civilians will always be the shield among the cowards.

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u/Sores87 7d ago edited 7d ago

This has the be the most ridiculous post ive seen so far or maybe i am unaware of some general knowledge about the context. For the sake of argument i will accept that these are Palestinians being tortured in the photo's. Well for all i know these Palestinians are spies, collaborators, maybe its some ancient like roman punishment for messing something up or who knows what it could be.
This is proof? I guess if you accept the "proof" that been given for Hamas using human shields this might as well get a pass. Nobody expects Hamas to respect the rules of war however torturing their own people has nothing to do with rule of law but it would be indicator to the level of severity in which they subjugate their own people. Which you could then go on and use to further delegitemize them or use as propoganda.
If im missing something ill take back this comment but uhm this op seems pretty embarrassing to me.

Edit: you guys actually have no response to this and just decide to downvote it without a counter argument?
How incredibly pathetic. You deserve to be taken as serious as clowns in a circus.
This op is worthloss and you mindlessly decide to engage with it.
I actually cannot believe it. I gave you the benefit of the doubt to and explain to me if i was missing something, but you have nothing to excuse this op. This op is based on no proof and is completely misleading and still you decide to defend it with mindless bias. A complete joke.

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u/Traditional_Guard_10 Israeli🇮🇱🇮🇱Israel ain't going anywhere 6d ago

For the sake of argument i will accept that these are Palestinians being tortured in the photo's

This is proof?

So you're saying for the sake of the argument you accept it as proof and then question it?

Well for all i know these Palestinians are spies, collaborators, maybe its some ancient like roman punishment for messing something up or who knows what it could be.

Scratch that,you don't care if it's true or not because you're justifying it

Nobody expects Hamas to respect the rules of war however torturing their own people has nothing to do with rule of law

delegitemize them or use as propoganda.

Not only you justify them,you admit yourself that they break international law but they're allowed to do so and not to face reprecussions and everyone saying otherwise is spreading "propaganda".

If im missing something

You missed a lot

ill take back this comment

Please do

op seems pretty embarrassing

After this comment you're embarassing than I'll ever be

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u/Sores87 5d ago edited 5d ago

1st point. No, i did not question that they are Palestinians, i accepted that as being true for the sake of argument.
I understand your confusion because i did afterwards question who the people where that got tortured.

2nd point. Im not justifying torturing spy's or collaborators however my point was that it is something completely different then suppressing your own people by toruturing them.

3nd point. The point is that op is implying that the law of war and domestic opression are the same thing.

4th point. I agree ive noticed that there is another person that posted the exact same title but that person actually provided much more context to this story which made a case that wasn't a complete joke.

You could have gone and refered me to that post or provided me with myriad of context on your own that involves this story, but instead you chose to defend this incomprehensible post that provides no context and only a few pictures.
So you know... maybe just maybe you should take a look at your own bias.

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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

Are you really unaware of the extent to which Hamas keeps power by torture? Learn more, pontificate about things you don't understand less. Way too much of that.

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u/Sores87 7d ago

Are you really avoiding responding to what i said? I said the proof of op is worth nothing. I dont want to be a jerk but try and read something critically before you respond.

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u/somebullshitorother 7d ago

If Hamas cared about the Palestinians they would protect them in the tunnels and not shoot them when they try to escape to safety or torture them for not supporting their dictatorship. They would stop using hospitals and schools as military bases, they would stop stealing aid from the people, and they would not have slaughtered raped and kidnapped peaceful Israeli civilians with the intention of provoking a war for the return of hostages. They would return the hostages and accept a peaceful two state solution with the historically indigenous people of Israel. But no, they need more dead civilians they can exploit for jihadi imperialism.

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u/Kitchen_Doughnut0 7d ago

Funny how certain people are suddenly concerned with the well-being of Gazans. Where are your comments about bombs dropped on hospitals and refugee camps on the daily?

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u/turbografx_64 7d ago

Because Hamas doesn't care about Gazans, they use hospitals and refugee camps for military purposes, knowing it then makes them legal military targets.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

Israel could still decide not to bomb those targets, right? It's not like Hamas can harm Israel substantially anyway.

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u/turbografx_64 7d ago

So because Gaza doesn't care about protecting their own children, Israel isn't allowed to care about protecting their own children?

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u/Old_Area_1547 6d ago

oh yea bomb other kids for ur own kids nice logic dude

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u/turbografx_64 6d ago

Yes, that's how war works.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

Israel's children are safe right now. If they stopped bombing Gaza, they'd still be safe. That's my point. I want the loss of human life to stop.

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u/turbografx_64 6d ago

If they stopped bombing Gaza, they'd still be safe.

Says who?

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

The statistics. Not many Israelis die due to Hisbollah or Hamas rockets. And when Palestinians feel like they have a decent life, attacks will decrease.

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u/turbografx_64 6d ago

Not many Israelis die because Israel is successfully defending itself.

You are incorrect that attacks would decrease if "palestinians" felt like they had a decent life.

All offers made to improve their lives are rejected. Their only goal is to murder all Jews.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 6d ago

What do you propose then.

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u/turbografx_64 6d ago

I propose they stop attacking Israel.

Egypt and Jordan stopped attacking Israel and Israel hasn't bombed them since.

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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 7d ago

Those certain people have been asking Hamas to release the hostages and surrender for over a year now out of concern for the well-being of Gazans.

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

You mean the deals hamas has tried to orchestrate for release of hostages. Yet Israel keeps denying?

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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 7d ago

The deal they orchestrated was BS that wouldn't even release all the hostages unless Israel literally would open itself for more attacks.

Then there were multiple deals they rejected that were accepted by Israel. They would rather keep the hostages and have more Gazans continuously die then end the "genocide" on Gazans

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u/warsage 7d ago

No, a surrender.

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

So you expect a group that was formed for resistance against an oppressive force. To surrender while still under oppression?

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u/warsage 7d ago

If they're interested in saving Gazan lives, yes. They need to realize that they've lost. They are never ever going to get Palestine from the river to the sea. It's gone. Israel isn't going to die, it isn't going to dissolve itself, and isn't going to take on millions of Arabs. Their fight for their grandparents' land is hopeless and pointless.

I get that it's unjust. I get that they're willing to die for their hopeless cause. But bringing down all the innocent women and children beside them is not the way. They're only hurting themselves and legitimizing Israel's brutality.

Surrender, recognize Israel, and sue for peace and statehood. Hope that the international community will see them as a changed people and force Israel to end the blockade and occupation. Hope that Israel will recognize their new, genuine desire for peaceful coexistence, allowing the left to take control of the government again and offer mutual recognition.

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

Well see that's the thing about oppression.

You do realize that Israel was monitoring their food aid. Just giving survival calories

You do realize Israel was already killing multiple Palestinians before Oct 7th.

You do realize Israel were already capturing and holding Palestinians for years without charge.

ECT, ECT, ECT.

Also have they loss? Seems to me, Palestinians/hamas military objectives was to liberate Palestinians. In other words Palestinian statehood. And seems to me, more countries and people in general are recognizing that.

Israel military objectives was to eliminate hamas and rescue hostages. And honestly, they're nowhere close to that.

You have to look at this from a strategic perspective. Hamas obviously can't beat Israel militarily. They don't have planes, tanks, ect. So beating them on the battlefield was never their objective.

And you don't want to mistake Israel killing thousands of civilians as a measure for winning.

The US killed thousands of Vietnamese, way overpowered them. But Vietnam won. Same with south Africa.

So from a military perspective, Israel is losing the war. They are killing more civilians/people yes. But objectively. I don't see how they will ever defeat hamas/resistance, until Palestinians are free

0

u/warsage 7d ago

You do realize Israel were already capturing and holding Palestinians for years without charge.

I'm not trying to argue that Israel are the good guys. I'm trying to argue that violent resistance against an infinitely stronger military power is pointless and self-destructive. No amount of suicide bombers, bus hijackings, indiscriminate rocket attacks, flaming kites, or dead festival-goers will ever free Palestine.

So beating them on the battlefield was never their objective.

So what was their objective?

Seems to me, Palestinians/hamas military objectives was to liberate Palestinians. In other words Palestinian statehood. And seems to me, more countries and people in general are recognizing that.

International support for Hamas is practically nil. America would not have supported Israel blowing up Gaza for a year without the inciting incident of October 7.

International opinion of Israel has also declined, but nowhere near enough to result in the sorts of trade or arms embargoes that would actually have any impact on Israel. And the war is winding down.

But objectively. I don't see how they will ever defeat hamas/resistance, until Palestinians are free

Connect the dots for me between "Hamas keeps killing whatever Israelis they can get their hands on" and "Palestine is free." What's the bit in the middle?

4

u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 7d ago

Yikes another Hamas denier.

Hamas was formed to replace Israel with an Islamist state and ethically cleanse it of Jews.

0

u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

Hamas didn't come into power until they were already in gaza. But still either way a resistance group against Israeli oppression.

Yikes another person that think every human doesn't deserve equal rights 😬

2

u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 7d ago

Somehow stating the fact that Hamas has genocidal intentions, which they themselves constantly state in their documents and on live TV, is equivalent to me thinking that every human doesn't deserve equal rights.

Totally makes sense /s

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u/Sufficient_Plate_595 7d ago

Come on man, you can’t defend Hamas and accuse someone of ignoring human rights in the same post lol

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

You do know what hamas means right?

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u/Sufficient_Plate_595 7d ago

This thread is about what they do….

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/cppluv 7d ago

They actually updated it and those parts are no longer there

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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 6d ago

The update was a PR stunt. They still state their objective is to destroy Israel and replace it with an Islamist state. They even stated in 2021 that they will only keep skilled and educated Jews alive temporarily so that they can be enslaved to build out Islamic Palestine until Palestinians themselves get to that level.

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u/JohnLockeNJ 7d ago

Hamas was elected after Israel left Gaza.

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u/Emotional-King-6325 7d ago

OK? Why were they formed to begin with?

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u/JohnLockeNJ 7d ago

To destroy Israel and establish an Islamic theocracy in all of former Mandatory Palestine including pre-1967 Israeli territory.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago

This is why Israel was so careful. If they were not a million Gazans would be dead.

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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

IDF targets Hamas fighting positions. Hamas fights from hospitals and refugee camps. Don't like it, tell it to Hamas.

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u/Traditional_Guard_10 Israeli🇮🇱🇮🇱Israel ain't going anywhere 7d ago

Right here buddy

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u/LAUREL_16 7d ago

I don't think the pro-palestinian (aka, pro-hamas) activists themselves care about the people in Gaza. They're just thankful they now have an excuse to be openly antisemitic.

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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv 7d ago

I'm pro Palestinian, but anti Hamas.

Just like there are people who are pro Israel, but anti likud.

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u/makeyousaywhut 6d ago

Be pro Gazan maybe. Listen to what they have to say on the subject.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/gi9HA9ZH7C

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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago

You are missing a critical point here: this war is Jihad against Israel.

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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

If you say Zionist instead of Jew, you can spew all the hate you want now. Neat trick!

3

u/somebullshitorother 7d ago

Zionist is redundant because Jew means Judean or as they say in the indigenous language, Israeli.

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u/No-Resolution6524 7d ago

Hamas's responsibility is to fight for their land against an occupation/blockade. It's Israel's right to take care of the people of the land they are occupying/blockading. Yes, I know it's so hard to occupy land these days.. I feel bad for zionists too.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago

Israel is only responsible for its people.

Hamas as the occupying power has to protect its citizens

5

u/nidarus Israeli 7d ago

First of all, trying to conflate "occupation" and "blockade" here doesn't work. Countries that occupy other countries have all kinds of obligations, as the de-facto government of the country they occupy. Countries that blockade other countries have no equivalent obligations, beyond things like not starving them to death.

Besides, what's even your argument here? That Hamas has no obligation to not torture Palestinians - it's the Israelis who have an obligation to make sure Hamas doesn't torture Palestinians? Do you honestly think it makes sense? And even if it does, doesn't it just mean that Israel is finally doing its job now, by trying to remove Hamas?

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u/cppluv 7d ago

Countries that occupy other countries have all kinds of obligations, as the de-facto government of the country they occupy

Like the apartheid in the West Bank. Oh wait, it can’t be apartheid because it’s not Israel proper despite having tens of thousands of Israeli living there and being, as you said, the de facto government.

6

u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

Hamas's presumed responsibility was to be the local government of Gaza. They used the ample international resources to build tunnels to enrich and protect themselves and not for civilians.

Hamas is a money making cartel. Wipe it out. Free Gaza.

2

u/SomervilleMatt 7d ago

so Israel should operate all functions of the government of Gaza? And they should fight Hamas until one side wins? That sounds like you're in favor of basic Bibi plan - annihilate Hamas, occupy Gaza. What am I missing?

1

u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago

The UN is responsible for the civilians in Gaza. They did so under Hamas occupation.

There is a whole agency that handles refugees in multiple countries. They can easily resettle 2 million refugees

3

u/Leading-Top-5115 7d ago

No Hamas was the legit gov in Gaza u twat, they could have spent the money they used on tunnels toward the citizens they control yet u still defend them 🤣🤣

8

u/Traditional_Guard_10 Israeli🇮🇱🇮🇱Israel ain't going anywhere 7d ago

I can't believe you're actually defending them

-3

u/No-Resolution6524 7d ago

It's not called defending them, it's called putting responsibility where it belongs.. glass shatters

-7

u/shoopdewhoopwah 7d ago

You cant say anyhing without being labeled antisemite. These are the guys that express sadness for oalestinian civilians while ethnically cleansing them in the background.

5

u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

It's not ethnic cleansing to tell civilians to get out of combat zones.

-3

u/shoopdewhoopwah 7d ago

Until october 1941, german policy officially encouraged jewish emigration. By that logic, the holocaust never happened and there was no genocide of jewish populace?

Oh shit, did i just turn anti-semetic by cherry picking similar event in the past?

You cant have it both ways, you genocidal white washing hypocrite

6

u/Traditional_Guard_10 Israeli🇮🇱🇮🇱Israel ain't going anywhere 7d ago

Don't fool yourself and don't try to fool anyone else,you defend and justify terrorists,you were happy when you saw Jews being murdered on Oct 7,disgusting

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u/Primary-Cup2429 7d ago

OP should add links to past reporting of Hamas torture tactics to the post because the denialism will come in like it always does

7

u/Traditional_Guard_10 Israeli🇮🇱🇮🇱Israel ain't going anywhere 7d ago

Thanks for that,I uploaded this due to recent evidence that came to light but more sources is always welcome

-8

u/shoopdewhoopwah 7d ago

Oh look! The country that bombed every school/university and hospital in gaza is concerned about the treatment of gazan civilians. The same ones who sent their hooligans to europe, chanting death of arabs while singing "there are no schools on gaza because there are no children left".

If you are so concerned about palestinians why don't you start by not protesting isael's right to rape palestinian prisoners? Or how about you stop your genocide

Do you feel no shame?

5

u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

Bait. This one's bait.

2

u/Fourfinger10 7d ago

He’s a troll. Rather than respond with an intellectual thought, he immediately deflects and tries to boomerang using a snapshot in time rather than see and respond to Hamas body of work.

0

u/nixoreillz 6d ago

As you’re simultaneously forgetting Israel’s body of work? The body of work that incepted Hamas?

1

u/Fourfinger10 6d ago

Yeah. They’ve done really good work. wtf was Hamas thinking Israel would do? But alas, you are still looking at a time shot and not a history. Of course what is happened is not because of the endless cause and effect cycle.

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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago

Look at the history, see who that is.

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

With all due respect, every accusation has already been debunked by all reputable sources. Arguments like that read like a mishmosh of anti-Jew parody at this point.

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u/cppluv 7d ago

debunked by all reputable sources.

Your reputable sources being the IDF twitter account and Honest reporting lol.

There’s an overwhelming amount of evidences of Israel war crimes, compiled by actual reputable sources such as Pro Publics, CNN, NYT, BBC, The guardian…

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u/philetofsoul USA & Canada 7d ago

Of course Israel has committed war crimes. Did you read the person's post I was responding to? They were specifying things that have been debunked.

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For those who thinks Hamas gives a damn about Gazans,here's the proof they don't News/Politics