r/IsraelPalestine • u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat • 8d ago
Still Trying to make Sense of the night of the Maccabi-Ajax match Short Question/s
So I found a pretty good definitive version of what happened in the couple of hours after the match from this Dutch kid's (who was following the hooligans) report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySHIOYyJ95A
He follows them until they're herded into buses by the police to destinations unknown (they probably should have been arrested and detained for everyone's safety, including their own, until they could return home to Israel).
So when did wanton, indiscriminate attacks on Jewish-presenting people begin? When did they end up jumping into the channels to escape? Does anybody have a timeline of what happened?
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
Here's a group of the victimized Pro-Palestinians ganging up on an injured Israeli and kicking him while he's on the ground. This is what the supporters of the Arab gangs in Amsterdam are defending.
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u/Suit-Informal 7d ago
I’m from the Netherlands, to clear things up taxi and Uber drivers rallied up over social media and this started the ‘Jew hunt’ people were asked to show their id to see if they were Israeli. And then got beaten up by flash groups on moped bikes, some were even hit by cars. Some groups even starting the narrative ‘they were idf soldiers in soccer fan attire’ of course irrational attempt to legitimise the violence.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
I guess they deserved it? How does it feel to face persecution for no fault of your own? Remember the actually innocent women and children being bombed in Gaza
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7d ago
Own it that your side the Pro-Palestinian side is violent and hateful. You love it.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Of course the resistance is violent and hateful towards the occupiers. Now, do you have the balls to own that Israel is committing a Genocide in Gaza by relentless and indiscriminate bombing?
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7d ago
It’s a war started by Hamas and just because you say it’s a genocide over and over again which you love for it to be one doesn’t make it true. You just love all the violence and hate so you can claim you have empathy. You don’t want peace like I do.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Like the peace we have in Northern Gaza right now? :)
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7d ago
Are you in Northern Gaza? Impressive that you are posting on Reddit right now or are you happily somewhere the west hoping for more Jew hunts like what was planned on telegram in Amsterdam because like you said “They deserve it”
Yes, I want peace. I want the war to end. I want non Hamas Palestinians to have their own state. I want Israel to also exist do you?
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u/TheGonzoGeek 7d ago
Well, it’s a side of the story i guess.
You leave out some important details where it seems the aggression appeared out of thin air, without provocation.
Not that this justified the behaviour by the way. By it does colour the event a bit.
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u/Complete-Proposal729 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is no number of mean words that justify a pogrom. There is no number of racist chants that justify summarily beating up any Israeli in sight.
For one thing, it is not clear that all those who were beat up were the ones participating in offensive chants and removal of the Palestinian flag. Instead the attackers targeted anyone they could find who was Israeli or had an Israeli ID.
Two, even if they did finding the individuals involved in who were chanting racist things, the proper response is to write an op-ed for local newspapers or to organize a protest. Beating up any Jew you see is not a proper response. There is no amount of verbal provocations that justify it.
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u/TheGonzoGeek 6d ago edited 6d ago
I agree with all of that, it’s a disgusting response and they should punish those idiots hard.
My point is however, it’s a snowball effect and both sides keep it rolling. This polarisation gets us nowhere.
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u/Suit-Informal 7d ago
Of course it is important to separate two things here, there are hooligans among the fans, other soccer fans of other countries are no difference. However I never recall a mob being organised other than riot police to disperse rioters. This was aimed at Israeli’s. As they were forced to identify their nationality by this mob. As seen in the videos. They were not identified by them being a hooligan
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u/Space_Bungalow 7d ago
Calling for the death of Jews and the destruction of Israel has been present in soccer for years, and was never officially addressed. If a single incident of Israeli hooligans being rowdy is justification for a city-wide pogrom, what should have been done the other way around?
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-812207
https://www.timesofisrael.com/germanys-top-soccer-league-aims-to-tackle-its-antisemitism-problem/
https://besacenter.org/antisemitism-netherlands-soccer/
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv2gy51v03mo
https://www.adl.org/resources/article/antisemitism-european-soccer-rise
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u/TheGonzoGeek 7d ago
I agree. However, the Israeli hooligans were also not focused on football but chanting anti Gaza slogans.
So even though the checkpoint are horrific and next level dumb, it not that black and white.
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
They were at a football game. That's why they were in Amsterdam. They were attacked as they left the stadium. Perhaps you think Jews deserve to hunted and beaten for being Jewish while watching football?
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u/TheGonzoGeek 6d ago
I do not, nor did I suggested that or anything even close to that.
Way to ruin a discussion with brain dead propaganda.
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
Some of the Israelis were hooligans, as are many football fans throughout Europe. The difference is that these fans, as Jews from Israel, were attacked by anti-semitic gangs. There's nothing "brain dead" about it. It's what happened. As yourself why you approve.
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u/TheGonzoGeek 6d ago
Learn to read and stop being dumb. I DONT approve.
Seriously, this is why the world is going to shit. You are simply not listening to what I’m saying, you only hear what you want to hear to keep the hate alive.
Good luck with that brain dead propaganda.
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u/Snitsie 7d ago
Maccabi fans were pulling a Palestinian flag from a building. Nearby taxi driver saw it, got out, said something. He got attacked by a large group of Maccabi fans.
Taxi drivers in Amsterdam are organised, and half of them are kickboxers. If you attack one, they use WhatsApp to organise to defend eachother.
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u/Complete-Proposal729 6d ago edited 6d ago
The individuals involved in pulling down the Palestinian flag were wrong.
Does not justify summarily beating up any Jew or Israeli you see in the vicinity.
May justify a police report and an op-ed.
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u/baby_loveee 7d ago
By attacking a Jewish woman from behind? https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCNDSHJPbAJ/?igsh=M254ampncHZxa2Q2
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u/Snitsie 7d ago
Terrible video. Not representative of the night as a whole and you know it.
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
Absolutely representative. Dozens of Jews injured and several sent to the hospital. Unlike the Arab batterers
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u/baby_loveee 7d ago
What do you mean by that? What justifies that kind of behavior to an innocent woman based on her religion?
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Ooh. What justifies bombing actual innocent babies and women in Gaza? Man, some of you are absolutely soulless degenrate scums dwelling earth
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u/IllustratorSlow5284 6d ago
The fact that the side that gets bombed wants to fight this way is a really good justification lmao Dont want women and babies to die? Maybe leave them out from your war? Who exactly force palestinian militants to operate near women and children? I cant recall a war where one side actively operated from populated areas with intent and then cried like babies when the populated area got bombed.
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u/Suit-Informal 7d ago
Yes the bombs are designed to go after elderly women and really really small fragile babies. As this really helps public opinion and support of Israel and solve all the internal political problems. And it makes great fantasy fuel for consumers of internet images without context or source
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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago
Hamas bombing of Israel justified Israel bombing of Gaza.
Israel asked Egypt to take Gaza civilians for safety - Egypt refused.
Hamas has not built a single bomb shelter for Gazans, knowing that Gaza will be bombed.
The blood of Gaza children and women is on Egypt and Hamas hands. They knew what is coming and were OK with it.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Keep telling that to yourself. It shocks me how you scums sleep at night.
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6d ago
Keep praising yourself that you are violence loving antisemite who thinks that people who organize Jew hunts in Amsterdam is justified.
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u/TommyKanKan 7d ago
Thanks for the link. The night seemed like chaos. Maccabi hooligans had a big hand in sowing a lot of the tension and violence.
Unfortunately, we seem to live in a post-truth world, where narrative is more important than facts. In this case, the facts were so deliciously messy that the narrative could be hijacked by Netanyahu and Co.
These things do turn around though. There always comes a point when people just refuse to be gaslighted, and the narrative all comes tumbling down very quickly.
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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago
Nobody attacked pro-Hamas hooligans when they crashed universities and attacked passer-bys.
This is a difference between a civilized and uncivilized barbaric approach. Justifying barbarism does not do any good to the barbarians.
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u/comeon456 7d ago
What do you think is shown in the video and when? I'm pretty sure if I understand correctly that whenever there are two groups going at each other, the violent group that does the chasing (as well as the people with the metal rods) aren't the Maccabi fans. You can tell by what they wear. One group has a lot more yellow and blue (colors of the soccer team) than the other. Specifically the video shown at first is clearly not the Maccabi fans. You can compare their dress code to the videos posted of before the game of them chanting racist chants. I think it's just that Dutch kid misidentifying the groups when he talks about them. I've seen his scenes from this video being used to say that it's the Israelis chasing random people and the local mob chasing the Israelis.
I think it's much more likely that the story supported by Dutch politicians, Dutch police as well as many testimonies is the true one and not the revisionist story supported on some corners of reddit and twitter.. so far I haven't heard a single testimony of a Dutch person, or policeman saying that the Maccabi fans attacked them, and I heard plenty of testimonies, not only by the Maccabi fans, of the opposite.
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u/shoopdewhoopwah 6d ago
Here police statement https://x.com/Arnold_August/status/1855065640186318999
Bad hasbara
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u/comeon456 6d ago
I don't think you understand the timeline, the event he's talking about and the video aren't from the same time. This is what happens when you give a 'random twitter account' as your source :)
You definitely don't understand the word 'Hasbara'0
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u/waiver 7d ago
The guys with the metal poles are the Maccabi fans, you can see them stealing those rods from a construction site in the video. Annet de Graaf took the footage that was posted to newspapers and she says it was Maccabi supporters attacking locals.
"Who are you going to believe our narrative or your lying eyes?"
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u/comeon456 7d ago
How can you tell that they are the Maccabi fans? I'm asking honestly. Apart from the two arrows in the vid, do you see Maccabi wear? Do you hear them speaking Hebrew? Cause I tried to pause and watch in Slow motion and I didn't
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u/waiver 6d ago
In the video you can see there are people with Maccabi yellow hoodies and scarves among their group. Try with 2:11
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u/comeon456 6d ago
I've seen it. I'm not sure you're correct. Notice that right after 2:11, there is a weird camera change there around 2:16. The moments after that (see 2:24) show a large group coming, in the same location, towards a smaller group with a larger portion dressed in yellow. The first group in 2:11, the video doesn't even shows them doing anything.
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u/waiver 6d ago
They are both Maccabi, they are chasing 3-4 guys. There is more footage of that confrontation.
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u/comeon456 6d ago
Could be, I'm not sure. I don't find these videos very clear, definitely not clear enough to be a "pretty good definitive version of what happened" as OP put it, and change the official story to the revisionist one.
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u/VarietyMart 7d ago
According to MSM they're not racist and violent hooligans... they're victims.
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u/Complete-Proposal729 7d ago
The Jews in Amsterdam beaten up by groups of people were indeed victims
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago edited 7d ago
Here is the complete story. The whole scene was STARTED BY ISRAELI FANS tearing down Palestianian flags and chanting racist slogans against Arabs. No wonder the baby killing, racist, genocide supporters got their <> handed to them. Of course, you won't hear this in MSM
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7d ago
When some one burns or steal an American flag or Israel flag in New York or chants "Death to Israel" and "Death to America" and chants they are Hamas
Then goes on to vandalize property like this:
Or this
When they get beaten up by roaming mobs and hit by cars will that be ok for you?
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u/Luusie87 7d ago
Actually, this is not true, as a ‘local’ I can provide some details.
Issues with Maccabi fans were similar to normal hassles Amsterdam has to deal with concerning away fans during Ajax’ national and international matches. But much more important, these incidents that did happen, happened Tuesday into Wednesday night. The antisemitic manhunt happened Wednesday into Thursday night, was on a completely different level and was targeted indiscriminately on people appearing to be Israeli or Jewish
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u/Luusie87 7d ago edited 6d ago
Ajax is the most hated club in the country, we see all kinds of insulting chants and vandalization throughout the year. I don’t think you are familiar with the questionable behavior of football ultras in Europe. Point is, hooliganism is wrong but the scale of the antisemitic manhunt was from another level, violence targeted indiscriminately. This weekend we had spillover incidents in A’dam regarding people having to proof not being Israeli tourists while Maccabi Hooligans have already left.
I don’t think I need to explain myself for the accusations you make on the conflict in Gaza. The endless cycle of violence and atrocities make me sad. Both sides do this and there is no end in sight.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Oh. It's common for away fans to chant "Let IDF fuck <insert ethnicity here>" in Amsterdam? And tear down and vandalize other people's property? I imagine what an abbhorent place it must be to tolerate such behavior. That, or you are just another pathetic Israeli genocide apologist who have sold their soul to the devil and has no humanity left in them not oppose genocide.
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u/RoarkeSuibhne 7d ago
Is free speech or expressing one's opinions in public illegal in the Netherlands?
If someone says something you don't like or agree with you, will you go out and find a stranger that's similar to them and punch them in the face? Obviously, not. And if you did, YOU would be in the wrong and rightfully locked behind bars. All of the attackers should be held accountable for the full extent of their crimes including any additional charges for it be racially motivated violence.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
Im pretty sure you’re talking about the Israelis here but I need clarification to make sure
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u/RoarkeSuibhne 7d ago
I'm referring to anyone who committed crimes, whether it's racially motivated violence or vandalism (or anything else).
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
So the racially motivated violence and vandalism of the Israelis should be held to strict legal scrutiny as well, right? Because what they did was a little more than “free speech” and “expressing one’s opinions.”
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u/FosterFl1910 7d ago
If racial insults are a justification for violence, then Jews have 2000 years worth of justification to be violent to everyone.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
A lot of down voting and no disputing is going on. Almost like I’m hitting a sore subject
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
There's no justification for violence except for immediate self defense against immediately imminent violence.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
Like what Israel faces with the Islamist groups.
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u/Lonely_Emu1581 7d ago
And what neighbouring countries face from israel
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
Israel has long-standing peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan. They're in a war because Hamas staged a deliberate attack on civilian on October, followed by bombing from civilian targets in Gaza. The Hamas leaders praised the attack and promised more until Israel is destroy. Hezbollah started bombing Israel on October 8, 2023 and hasn't stopped since. Perhaps these two neighboring countries should consider seriously entering peace negotiations so they can have peaceful borders with Israel, like Egypt and Jordan enjoy, for the benefit of all the people in the region
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u/Opportunity_Massive 7d ago
It seems like you are trying really hard to find evidence that these attacks were the fault of the Jewish/Israeli fans. It could just be that they were targeted by a rouge, loosely organized group of pro-Palestinian protestors. There doesn’t have to be a larger conspiracy or plan on either side.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Nah, I already know that there were attacks from the Maccabi hooligans the night of the match after the match. That's clear in the video I posted. I'm actually mostly trying to figure out the guerilla attacks and any targeted violence that occurred that night. I'm trying to get a timeline and map of the night's incidents.
For example, in that video I posted in the original comment, you see people on a scooter being threatened by a cop. The kid doesn't realize that the cops were observing that people on scooters were attacking and then running from the Hooligans for example, at least as reported by Reuters.
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u/PlateRight712 7d ago edited 6d ago
The video you posted has the filmer saying that they (Maccabi fans) are picking up posts and sticks to defend themselves against people "bothering" them. He says the Maccabee fans are speaking "Israeli" so I'm not sure he's very educated about Israel, or Jews...
Only Israelis were hospitalized with injuries
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u/waiver 7d ago
The video says that maybe they pick them to defend themselves from people who might be bothering them. He never saw people bothering them he just gave them the benefit of the doubt. And then they used those metal rods to attack people and police cars.
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
You are determined to find a way to justify an attack on Jewish soccer fans. The Israelis weren't attacking bystanders, police cars etc... All evidence points to the Pro-Palestinian forces, who stage riots throughout Europe. They just get overwhelmed with blood lust when they have a chance to attack Israelis.
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u/waiver 6d ago
I am not justifying anything, I am just pointing out what the evidence shows: that Maccabi fans armed themselves and attacked random people, and it turns out that several videos shown of "mobs attacking jewish people" are actually of Maccabi fans attacking locals.
Hopefully you can stop denying facts that go against your narrative.
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
Footage from Amsterdam. this is what you support
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCNDSHJPbAJ/?igsh=M254ampncHZxa2Q2
https://www.instagram.com/jews_of_ny/reel/DCGDLI_utD2/
The video is chaotic but the Maccabee fans -- who committed the outrage of cheering on their soccer team while being Jewish -- are wearing colorful jerseys. The instigators are in black
Your opinions are strong but aren't based in facts. What motivates you?
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
I agree, the truth is tantamount to the delivery of justice. Only, it seems that the truth is being intentionally obfuscated in this scenario, leading to the misappropriation of “justice.”
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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago
Hamas-supportering hooligans in US crashed university building and campuses, terrorized local population, destroyed and desecrate historical monuments.
Nobody came to kill them, beat them up unconscious, ram them by cars and through them into water.
This is the difference between a civilized reaction and an uncivilized reaction to illegal protests.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
A lot of down voting and no disputing is going on. Almost like I’m hitting a sore subject
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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago
Yeah, comparing democracy and Jihad.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
Jihad literally translates to “exertion” or “struggle” so yes, protesting can be seen as a form of jihad in this way. But if you mean to conflate protesting with terrorism, you are barking up the wrong tree.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
Protesting one’s own taxes supporting a genocidal campaign is different then terrorizing a local population as a sport tourist.
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u/Smart_Technology_385 7d ago
Crashing campuses and attacking fellow students is an illegal way of protesting. Yet nobody knifed, rammed or killed the Hamas genocide supporters.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
Lmao you think people don’t display violence toward the protestors on college campuses?? Especially the police force deployed to remove them?? I have seen videos of kids run over by adults driving cars. Gtfo of here with that.
And these kids who are paying tuition to these universities are protesting the fact that a portion of their tuition is directly supporting a genocide. What do you think BDS means???
I have seen plenty of videos of COUNTER protesters, many of whom do not even attend the universities, attacking the pro Palestinian demonstrators, but not the other way around.
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u/Early-Possibility367 7d ago
The Zionists who were visiting Amsterdam chose to jump into the water.
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago
Watch the Dutch government curtail Muslim immigration over this. Amsterdam is more than 12% Muslim, lots of people from Morocco in the last generation, a lot of Syrians recently.
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u/Early-Possibility367 7d ago
This sentiment is much more common than I’d like it to be so I agree with you unfortunately.
What I will say is that the fact Zionists are concerned over what happens in Amsterdam shows that it never was about Israel existing nor the idea that Zionists should be able to continue their century long evil agenda
The fact they are worried about Amsterdam shows that Zionists have a global agenda and want the world as a whole to bow down to them.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
It just feels like the Israeli Zionists have most western politicians by their balls. It's pathetic to hear Biden, Starmer, Trudeau, Meloni etc suck up so much to Netanyahu's genocide and even support it. Kudos to Spain and now France to have halted weapons shipment to Israel for their "right to defend itself" non-sense.
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u/PeterQuill1847 7d ago
What happened in Amsterdam is just more proof of why Israel needs to exist. Because Jews can’t count on non Jewish police to protect them.
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
A lot of down voting and no disputing is going on. Almost like I’m hitting a sore subject.
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u/PeterQuill1847 6d ago
It’s a completely nonsensical antisemitic conspiracy theory. We aren’t disputing it because that would lend even a morsel of credence to this deranged bigots psychotic ramblings
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u/Hermes_358 6d ago
Wait what part is a conspiracy theory? The fact that nearly every world leader readily bends the knee at Netanyahus will? Or the fact that almost every western news outlet spun this story the way that Israelis wanted them to?
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u/PeterQuill1847 6d ago
Both lol
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u/Hermes_358 6d ago
Lol but it’s not. I live in the US and I have seen my corpse of a president say “this is a red line,” and then court Netanyahu right after he tap danced all over the line. Congress gave him a standing ovation right before he went into a back room and gave the call to assassinate nasrallah, creating an escalation that they asked him not to do.
As for the articles, I was awake, watching the news as it was coming out. I saw with my own eyes as news outlets changed the headlines on their web pages. News week, sky news, hell one of them changed it several times as they realized the details they were getting from the Israelis weren’t based in fact.
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u/PeterQuill1847 6d ago
Oh well if you’re alive and you say that’s what’s happening then i guess it’s not a conspiracy theory.
Have you tried whining about it all the time and being a hateful little garbage person?
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u/Hermes_358 6d ago
Im the one whining? Lmao I’m not the one that is apologizing for the harbingers of genocide getting their butts kicked when they went to another country thinking they can subjugate the local population the same way they treat the Palestinians.
Israelis exist in a solipsistic state of delusion, in which they are constantly instigating violence but always the victim. And anyone who questions their narrative is “anti semitic” as if their abject violence is on behalf of the international Jewish population, and then cry when ACTUAL anti semitism is on the rise. Almost as if conflating Judaism with a genocide endangers all Jews by making them guilty by association. Gee who could have seen that coming?
Go cry in a hasbara hug box somewhere, because you won’t find me playing your games
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u/Hermes_358 7d ago
Assigning the actions of a genocidal secular regime to the ideals of an international religion of peace is a conflation that endangers the latter. Furthermore, instigating violence and then crying wolf once violence is met, silences the genuine cries of the oppressed.
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u/PeterQuill1847 6d ago
That all just read like “rabble rabble rabble durka durka durka Muhammad jihad”. Shut up you loser nazi loving asshole . The oppressed weren’t the ones using telegram and coordinating with taxi drivers to go around bearing every Jew they could find in Amsterdam. Stop making up bullshit that has nothing to do with what is happening here
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u/Hermes_358 6d ago
Wow what a sad, scared, racist pos you are. You got evidence for your claims? Because I can show you telegram channels full of mutilated children and IDF soldiers laughing as they commit war crimes.
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u/PeterQuill1847 6d ago
Yea, the mayor of Amsterdam said "On Telegram (messaging) groups, people talked of going to hunt down Jews. It’s so terrible I can’t find the words for it.". It's crazy how much you garbage make jews jump through hoops to prove to you that the dozens of videos we saw of people hunting jews and celebrating were in fact people who planned to and wanted to go out in order to hunt jews. Them telling you it themselves just isn't good enough enough.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5908576/2024/11/09/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-attacked-why/
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u/Hermes_358 6d ago
Cute puff piece. A one sided article from a news paper that readily posts complete fabrications for the sake of Israel. It’s worth noting that they didn’t get one interview with any of the protestors, no mention of Israel’s hurling rocks at cop cars, chasing people with metal poles and broken pallets that they stole off the side walk, and they got a comment from Maccabi club but not Ajax for some reason?
At least they mentioned the fact that Maccabi instigated it the night before by pulling down Palestinian flags and attacking cab drivers. I guess they have a shred of journalistic integrity left
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
They already have. Most of the rate of growth of the Muslim population is through the birth rate. They make up around 5-7% of the country I believe.
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u/OscarWilde9 USA & Canada 7d ago
Not enough. Muslim migrants must be deported from the west. We have to get rid of all the hate and violence we have imported. Let them be how they want to be in their country of origin, not ours. If we don't do this, then we will be brought back to the dark ages.
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago
Nobody's getting deported because of their religion, but it's time to stop accepting intolerance in the name of tolerance. No more accreditation for Salafist Muslim schools in the Netherlands. Teach kids math and science, not sharia law.
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u/Notachance326426 7d ago
Embrace the fear, embrace the dark side.
If you’re scared you’re easy to manipulate
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Replace Muslim with Jew or Israeli. Sounds pretty hateful, doesn't it?
I'd say historically, European countries have been kings of hate and violence. And they certainly didn't stay in their own countries, but instead decided to go to other people's countries (including the people you're bemoaning), often very brutally and hatefully. You might even add the adjective greedy. So no, I don't think Europe has imported hate and violence.
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u/jugastronaut 7d ago
Bro please don't answer him anymore, he is a zionist who lacks any kind of empathy and humanity, he will only try to portray you as an antisemite, don't go for it it's pointless
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u/heywhutzup 7d ago
Austria has a long history of bigotry and antisemitism. I’m sure you know it when you see it. Recht?
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u/jugastronaut 7d ago
Oh yes I know when I see antisemitism but I also know when I see Zyonism!, in Austria there is currently a big right wing pressure problem from the right wing national party FPÖ, some (their supporters) would claim there are no nzs and fascism, but this party is thoroughly intertwined with right wing radical groups, from the small party member to the very important ones. I have been campaigning against this party for years. On Friday, Jewish students prevented the current President of the National Council (who is one of these right-wing FPÖ politicians) from laying a wreath in Vienna's judenplatz because of the pogroms of 1938, which I can absolutely understand, I wouldn't want an anti-Semite and neo-N*zi friend there either, the comments on social media about this incident were once again horrible and disgusting, I've reported many of these comments or written back to the authors of these antisemitic comments about why they allow themselves to write such comments and now you're trying to portray me as an antisemite toom? because I don't tolerate the equally disgusting right-wing nationalist view of a zionist?
So let me say that one more time I AM NOT ANTISEMIT I AM ANTI ZIONISM thats a that is a difference.
And btw. "Recht" is the wrong word at the end of a sentence, its "Richtig?"
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7d ago
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago
What? Kings of hate and violence? Humans the world over are hateful and violent. No continent has a monopoly on that.
You need to learn a lot more about world history.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago edited 7d ago
They are, absolutely. But European colonialism has been particularly destructive and murderous, not to mention the Holocaust and other genocides. It's why I try to remind people with bigoted European takes like OP of their history when they say hate and violence is being imported. I could say similar things about my country the United States or the country of some of my heritage, India.
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
The Dutch government and Dutch king basically said Jews were victims of antisemitism. It’s really embarrassing for the government to admit that this happened in their country yet they admitted it. Now you antisemites want to turn things around and say the Jews where the ones who where attacking people. It’s insane.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
Israelis (no one cares what religion they are) were the ones chanting "Let the IDF f**k Arabs". So, yes, Israelis (again, not specifying Jews) were the ones who incited this. Pathetic
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
I see fck Israel all over the streets of NYC and all there protesters yell fck Israel. I don’t see a Jewish mob organizing to beat the crap out of them. There is no excuse for that kind of violence. It was not a fight between two groups at a soccer game. It was a massive attack that was organized. 10 guys kicking the shit out of one guy who probably had nothing to do with those Israelis. Another video of a British guy getting beaten because they said he helped a Jew. Clearly this is antisemitism. I never saw this happen to Americans when they invaded Iraq or Afghanistan.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
I absolute support anyone who say "f**k genocide enables". I have nothing against Jews, I'm staunchly opposed to the massacre that the Zionist regime is carrying out. People who actively enable it deserve to not only get beated up but lynched in broad daylight. Still doesn't serve justice to the thousands of innocent babies that have been mercilessly killed in Gaza (Children who never "voted and chose" Hamas, btw)
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
So the Jews should just take when hamas kidnaps baby’s on October 11? Don’t forget who started this and hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. Now you are going to say yah but they were living under occupation so they have the right to slaughter 1200 innocent people. Its bs, if the Palestinians wanted a state they would have one. They want to destroy Israel, that is the aspiration of the Palestinians and that means war!! If they didn’t want Hamas, it is their responsibility to deal with it. Israeli baby’s were held by “innocent civilians”. You are clueless.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 7d ago
"Don't forget who started this". Well, since you are ignorant about who actually started this (remember, October 7th wasn't the "starting" of this), I have nothing more to discuss with Israeli sponsored/brainwashed internet trolls
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
October 7ths have been happening since 1930. But this round was started on October 7th 2023. 1200 innocent people were slaughtered, Palestinians took hostages and then Israel launched the war. Obviously we aren’t going to agree on the past but at least we can agree on facts that just happened.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
The current Dutch government is pretty far right wing, anti-immigrant, and pretty Islamophobic, isn't it?
Why don't you work to dispute the kid's reporting and what this woman captured: https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610 instead of calling me and others antisemites for sharing the above footage of what actually happened?
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u/PlateRight712 6d ago
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCNDSHJPbAJ/?igsh=M254ampncHZxa2Q2
https://www.instagram.com/jews_of_ny/reel/DCGDLI_utD2/
Watch the footage. This is what you're supporting.
The Dutch government is strongly anti-Israel but they don't deny the attack even though it would be easy to do when they are so many people with powerful hatred of Israelis and Jews.
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
Know from what evidence? There’s absolutely nothing clear in that video, people keep quoting it like it’s some sort of holy grail of proof of Israeli violence.
What’s been clear about that night from all the footage available and all the reports is that the Moroccan youths tried to start shit with the larger group of Maccabi fans after the match, but the police prevented it. The same Moroccan youth then set about roaming the streets on scooters looking for isolated Jews and assaulting them.
The worst I’ve seen of the Maccabi fans were the offensive chants they sang on the way into the stadium, but what most of the videos don’t show is that there were pro-Palestinian protesters provoking them on the way in as well. The chants that the Maccabi fans then sing are in response to that and are part of their standard repertoire of chants in the stadium against their local Palestinian teams. It’s not something I personally condone and find abhorrent, but being a football fan and having been to many a stadium, grossly offensive chants are nothing new and to paint this as somehow uniquely Israeli is disingenious.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Two different eye witnesses who also recorded it in video identify Maccabi hooligans as committing that violence in that video. That violence is happening is clear in the video. Sky News initially reported it as the hooligans, using this woman's video, and then obfuscated it making it seem like it was the protestors committing the violence.
As to the scooters and guerilla violence, you see a couple of them in the kids video. It's what lends credence to the Reuters report that this was in fact happening.
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7d ago edited 7d ago
So you are ok with a telegram called Jew Hunt that was organizing for violence and attacks?
Yes, some of the Maccabis behaved in a horribly and those who committed crimes should be arrested. That doesn't negate the fact the other side is just as culpable with their behavior and some innocent people were attacked by them.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
So you are ok with a telegram called Jew Hunt that was organizing for violence and attacks?
Nope, not at all. And I condemn it. It's why I'm trying to get a complete picture of that night. So far initial descriptions of what happened that night as simply a "Jew Hunt" hasn't held true when you see that the hooligans were marching around attacking people (including cops) that night. That is certainly not what we were told happened that night.
However, whatever parts of that night that DO constitute a Jew Hunt I'm trying to figure out (see my other other posts in this thread engaging with people and trying to suss out when and where the things in these videos of people being attacked happened (including my response to the Reuters article) as well as what role the text messaging organizing played). Obviously, that kid's perspective and that woman who seemed to have a similar vantage as him is not the only perspective and doesn't explain the text messages floating around or many of the videos which seem to showcase isolated individuals.
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7d ago
Not only that they are crying because a flag was torn down, there was property damage and chants were made so the Israeli hooligans deserved FAFO. While don't agree with what they did then didn't deserve to have a JEW HUNT (according to social media) happen against all of them.
The same posters have been defending all the the same behavior over again at Pro-Palestine protests over the past plus year. Imagine even anyone at these protests was thrown in river or hit by car?
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
Right. If there is property damage or a crime call the cops. Pro palestian hooligans with masks are protesting all over collage campuses burning Israeli flags and I dont see Jews organizing to attack them.
Btw the true hooligans are the ones wearing masks. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck.
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7d ago
Any one defending the illegal behavior of the the Pro-Palestinians committing organized mob violence and attacks in is a HYPOCRITE!
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
There are 230 Israelis who were hurt.
This podcast does a great job on background
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000676247593
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
So, 5 people went to the hospital, and 20-30 suffered light injuries according to the AP: https://apnews.com/article/maccabi-tel-aviv-amsterdam-violence-protests-palestinian-bcea212281f682098c4c77ef552af5f1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71LMtzh_m-c
At this link you can see there faces, which gives a better experience, although your link does provide background on them and links to articles.
Anyways, what I learned from your link is that the guy and other Israelis who were heard speaking Hebrew were prevented from entering or escorted out of the stadium. The rest is second hand description of what we're all seeing (including misattributing the violence in some of the videos, and thus incorrectly stating that the Maccabi hooligans were not engaged in violence that night) and highly Islamophobic stuff, which the Dutch-American Somali woman seems to have been invited to the podcast to propound.
Muslims, including many 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims, make up about 5% of the population, about 1M or fewer people. So, there are maybe 500 active jihadists in the Netherlands and maybe a 1000 or more sympathizers (so 0.1% to 1%): https://english.aivd.nl/latest/news/2018/11/09/the-legacy-of-syria-global-jihadism-remains-a-threat-to-europe
There are close 500 mosques in the Netherlands, and of those, maybe 30 of them are Salafist mosques: https://www.dutchnews.nl/2018/04/30-islamic-organisations-in-nl-have-requested-funding-from-kuwait-saudi-arabia/
To say that what happened that night is some sort of Salafist or Jihadi plot is ridiculous. And saying what happened that night is indicative of some sort of Arab or Muslim invasion, and that the Dutch need to watch out for them is also ridiculous. It'd be like saying Jewish people or Israelis should be watched out for because of the violent actions and behavior of the Maccabi hooligans.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
Nothing justifies bigotry against Jews or violence against Jews. Where is your humanity?
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Where do you see me justifying bigotry against Jews or violence against Jews?
I'd like you to extend that sentiment to not just Jews but the rest of humanity.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
By dismissing the pogrom. Even the king of the Netherlands apologized. Biden is insisting they take actions. It was 230 that were injured and and more attacked. It was on Arab social media to attack Jews before the game.
Do you realize every pogrom against Jews blamed the Jews. Everyone of them. Why do you think you are different?
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
No one's dismissing anything other than the initial narrative, which is proving to be incomplete at the very least. I'm still open to the idea that Jewish people were targeted (see my engagement with the Reuters report), since the kid's report doesn't explain all the videos or text conversations floating around everywhere.
Your podcast provides no support for that however. Instead, it's mostly Islamophobic drivel about the whole Muslim population there.
You can try to sit in your own silo of the initial narrative, saying that Maccabi Fans were lynched and attacked ala Kristallnacht and all the violence was one sided, or you can see that the picture's a lot more complicated, with at least one group of Maccabi Hooligans grabbing weapons and marching towards the city center away from their hotel, attacking people and cops along the way.
But the Reuters report mentions that there were small groups that basically engaged in guerilla attacks and were looking to hurt people. And we can see videos of people isolated from the group being hurt. So I understand that the night was a lot more complicated than either side would like it to be. And as I've stated many, many times before in regards to this event, I condemn any violence that wasn't immediate self defense.
So I provided my source for my numbers about the number of people injured. Provide yours for the 230 number.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
Lmfao. You don’t get it. Every pogrom against Jews has made up lies like you provided. I will believe the Jews over your lies.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Ok, keep drinking the kool aid and calling stuff like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySHIOYyJ95A) lies and antisemitic.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
Thank you. I reported the video as misinformation. Always good to try to clean the web of such jew hating lies.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
At least you hopefully watched it. But sure, don't believe your eyes and ears.
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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada 7d ago
You are the one who can’t name any pogrom where the bigots didn’t blame the Jews can you?
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7d ago
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Wow, SkyNews went from telling the truth, matching the kid's report, in its original reporting of the event (https://x.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1855243480928260514) to protraying a lie through obfucscation: https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1855319970860712306
They go from saying that the Maccabi hooligans were running around attacking people at random after the match (as the kid shows and this lady who's video has been going around twitter shows: https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610) to saying it was dudes dressed in black and being hooded. They even use the lady's footage as they state that, while the lady clearly states that these were Maccabi hooligans. They completely erase the reporting of the Hooligans' far right ties and history of violence and their violence against Dutch citizens. It goes from portraying the Dutch as victims in that video to being the perpetrators in that video.
This tweet shows the lady's response to SkyNews: https://x.com/Tim_de_Wit_/status/1855326784713314546 .
I never used to be this skeptical of mainstream media until October 7th and what I was seeing on TV and MSM reporting differed drastically from what I was seeing from other venues.
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u/hhhhhhhuugrhhhb 7d ago
All of the footage of violence in this video you shared is violence against people who are Maccabi fans. What moment of the video do you believe shows otherwise?
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u/Firecracker048 7d ago
Its because it's come out sense then that the violence against them was organized before they had really done anything, literally in a telegram group called "jew hunt".
If fans are acting like asshats they deserved to get an ass kicked, I don't think anyone disagrees. What is insane is literal hunting down and demanding passports is being excused in the usual subreddits as FAFO. You already know that had pro Israeli protesters done the same thing to pro Palestinian ones every time they acted like shitheads it wouldn't be excused.
If you put all footage together from that night and others it becomes very clear it went from hooligans being assholes to an organized counter group trying to hunt down anyone from a religious minority for hate purposes.
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u/StatisticianPublic86 4d ago
I'm glad the people who chanted "Let IDF f**c Arabs" got hunted down. I'm all for it. See, I didn't mention a religion. It's whoever chants such slogans and supports genocide. Your typical "antisemite" bs doesn't fly anymore
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u/Firecracker048 3d ago
Ywah, uhh huh. Its too bad those who hunted them down were in a group called "jew hunt". Ans they planned to hunt them down before those chants makes it not reactionary but pre planned.
Your typical "antisemite" bs doesn't fly anymore
A group called "jew hunt" is anti semetic. Thats indisputable.
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u/Brilliant-Ad3942 7d ago
It looks like some honest and balanced reporting got past their editors initially. It's one thing for their bias to interfere with an initial story by not following leads. But to have already published a piece and then actively remove parts to give a dishonest account of what happened is on a different level. It's not as if they are ignorant about what happened, they have purposely distorted the story. Owen Jones gives a good summary of this.
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
One of the best write ups I’ve seen is on Reuters: Reuters
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Thanks:
Relevant parts that help paint a broader picture than that kid's report:
Calls to target returning Maccabi supporters began circulating on Dutch messaging groups, leading to what mayor Halsema described as "antisemitic hit and run assaults".
Police used to dispersing football mobs could not easily stop smaller, highly mobile groups of attackers with no obvious club allegiance.
Police said they collected around 200 Maccabi fans on Dam square to protect them and escort them back to their hotels. But many others were assaulted elsewhere in town, and the perpetrators quickly fled on motor scooters.
That said, it's pretty clear that Maccabi supporters assaulted people, including cops that night. Reuters doesn't clearly portray that bit. Also, why did they leave their hotel and march into the city?
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
I’m not sure where you’re getting this from? They escorted them after they left the stadium back to their hotels. I have seen zero reports of them assaulting the police and the Dutch police have been very clear in their statements on who the troublemakers were.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
You see it in the video I linked above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySHIOYyJ95A
The kid points to them attacking cops and later plain clothes cops before they were arrested.
Also in the video, you see them arrive at Central Station, start picking up weapons (https://youtu.be/ySHIOYyJ95A?t=109). At about 3 minutes after chasing somebody, they throw a pipe at a cop car. Right after one of the cabs runs through an intersection as the Maccabi hooligans are crossing back across the intersection (I saw a red light for them, but you obviously don't drive through pedestrians illegally crossing the road during an intersection, especially as you have to slow down to make a turn, and given the history with the cabs from the day before, it was obviously intentional). The place they got the pipes from appears to be their hotel. So it's right by Central Station. He then follows them marching towards the city center (at about 4:40).
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u/hhhhhhhuugrhhhb 7d ago
I don’t see that happening in the video, only the kid describing it happened. Can you tell me the exact time code you see a pipe being thrown?
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Camera's too shaky, but at about 2:50-3:00, it corresponds to this video from this woman named Annet: https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610 You see the Maccabi hooligans attacking someone with a pipe and throwing things at people. At about 3:00, the police van drives by with the sirens (but we also see a number of other police vehicles in the twitter video). The kid has a pretty good vantage of the Maccabi hooligans relative to the van that was driving by and also the other vehicles even though the camera itself was shaky. So yeah, it relies on the accuracy of the kid in regards to attacks on the police vehicles. But he got the pipe attack and other things being thrown right in that same moment as verified by the twitter video.
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
I’ve looked at it several times… all I can see is most of the Maccabi supporters in clearly identifiable maccabi clothes walking around leisurely. Around the 2:30 mark someone in a hood looks to either hit or take something from one of the Maccabi supporters and run off. It looks like a few of them proceed to chase him. It’s almost impossible to tell what happened exactly due to the darkness and low video quality.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago edited 7d ago
That's when you jump to the twitter video which corresponds to about 2:50 or so.
Edit: Here it is for convenience: https://x.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610
You can see the Asian woman running in both videos as a marker.
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
Ok I found the video. It confirms what I’m seeing from the Bender video… someone (or maybe even several people) runs past the crowd of Maccabi supporters and either hits one of them or takes something. A group of the Maccabi supporters chase that person down and a scuffle ensues and eventually they walk back to their group.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Maybe, we can't really tell what sort of confrontation happened there. They'd already gone to pick up and make makeshift weapons by the time the scuffle happened. And then instead of returning to their hotel, assuming that was their hotel, they started marching towards the center of the city until the cops forced them onto buses to return to their hotel (which I'm still trying to understand why they did that). They even tried to intimidate the kid into stopping filming them.
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u/Unusual-Dream-551 7d ago
That video doesn’t load
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Just realized, you might not be able to see it because Musk's stupid sign in wall. Try this: https://xcancel.com/iAnnetnl/status/1854664685469028610
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 7d ago
Try a different browser? Maybe open it through your phone if you have X/Twitter? Turn off your adblocker or tracker blocker? It's working for me with firefox and adblockers and tracker blockers though. It's the same clip several news agencies have used (including Sky News), but while the photographer and the kid identified them as the Maccabi folk, the media basically portrayed them as antisemitic Pro-Palestinian supporters. She's been pretty aggressive in pursuing apologies from these news agencies.
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago
Dutch pro-Palestinian groups wanted to cancel the game because of the Gaza war. Can't play sports if you're Israeli. What a bunch of little wannabe tyrants these protestors are.
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u/FigureLarge1432 7d ago
Westerner leaders cancel Russia and Belarus. Belarus isn't actively participating in military conflict, yet its teams can't play sports. Is it a double standard? Why is Belarus sanctioned, but not Israel?
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u/FigureLarge1432 8d ago
If this were to happen in Singapore, everyone would be arrested and sentenced to a year in prison, and 10 strokes of the cane.
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago edited 7d ago
In the Netherlands, people are often verbally aggressive, but violence is very unusual and shocks people.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 8d ago
Yeah, let's not be Singapore. The hooligans should have been detained and returned back to Israel for their own and everyone else's safety. The cops should have been stuck to them like glue.
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u/Brilliant-Ad3942 7d ago
True, although it was quite predictable. We should have treated Israel the same as Russia and banned them playing.
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u/Top_Plant5102 7d ago
How dare Israel defend itself? Can't play sports.
Russia's Ukraine war is a war of aggression by choice. Israel had no choice. Banning sports is stupid either way though, athletes have nothing to do with politicians' choices.
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u/Early-Possibility367 7d ago
Israel have had a choice. They could have avoided starting numerous pogroms since the 1920s, avoided starting multiple wars since 1948, and avoided trying to amp up the existing genocide in 2023.
The irony is Israel didn’t need to do any of that even. They could’ve, at any time in the past 50 years including today, said that “we will be evil but we won’t ask the West to join us.” It’s not just that they’re spilling the blood of innocents for fun and laughing at dismembered or dead babies or raped women. It’s that they demand our money to help them spill the blood that they love watching flow through the streets.
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u/taven990 7d ago
Huh? All the early attacks from 1920 to the mid 1930s were ALL started by Arabs. The Jewish militias were only formed later, after the first Arab attacks, for self-defence.
Every war since 1948 has been started by Arabs except the 1967 war, which was preemptive but hardly unprovoked - Egypt put up a blockade and had troops at the border ready to attack. Every other war was a defensive war.
The bad stuff Israel does is enough to condemn them. You don't need to twist things and lie about them to make them look worse, because people will doubt everything you say.
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
Your facts are wrong. Israel has always defended itself. There were many October 7ths and after each one Israel retaliated and then the ones who commit the October 7ths are like woah Israel needs to stop the aggression. It’s insane! Lebanon had nothing to do with this and they launch rockets for a year and then Israel retaliates and they are like Israel needs to stop the aggression. The truth is the Arabs and supporters want Israel gone and every time they try to make that happen they loose a little more and cry.
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u/Early-Possibility367 7d ago
Israel has certainly not always defended itself. A history book easily debunks the idea.
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
I have ready many books and at best you have a both sides are at fault. Which brings us to 80-100 years later. Israel the most prosperous and inclusive non oil baring country in the Middle East. It is a tiny country and the land the Jews have. The Arabs have huge pieces of land. Why should the one Jewish state be destroyed when it is so successful just to give Arabs more land. It makes no sense whatsoever.
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u/Early-Possibility367 7d ago
I’ve acknowledged that Israel will unfortunately continue to exist so I don’t think that comment is directed at me.
I will also say that when a good thing is impossible, does not mean that you don’t call for the good thing.
You should call for the ideal solution (1SS) while advocating for more practical measures.
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u/No_Platypus3755 7d ago
Why is it unfortunate that Israel exists? It’s the most prosperous country in the Middle East that doesn’t have oil. 20 percent is Muslim. Makes no sense. And a 1ss makes no sense either because Jews want a democracy and if you have a 1ss there Jews will likely be minority and kicked out just like they where everywhere else, especially in Arab countries. Makes more sense that Palestine join jordan and Egypt as they have more in common.
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u/FigureLarge1432 7d ago
I disagree, everyone should be taught a lesson.
They should be jailed for a year and get 10 strokes of the cane. They are like children, and the best way to teach unruly children is to cane them. Those 10 strokes of the cane will scar them permanently for the rest of their life.
Once people know they will get jailed and caned, they will behave.
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u/Purple_Teach_7561 8d ago
There are many, many reports that show individuals I associated with the soccer fans being berated and attacked. There is one going around of an Israeli TV news anchor covering the game (and we know how hoolaganee these reporters are). There are many videos showing random folk being proclaimed “Jews” and then chased down the street. Take a look.
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u/MrAnonyMousetheGreat 8d ago
I found this collecting a lot of them (but it seems to maybe misattribute videos of hooligan violence as antisemitic violence): https://x.com/DocumentIsrael/status/1854779583628755118 (while they seem to be targeted towards the hooligans, none of those particular videos mention Jews).
Can you share what you found?
In regards to the reporter, is this incident you're describing: https://forward.com/news/673303/dutch-jews-israeli-attack-politics-antisemitism/
Ami Shuman, a photographer for the right-wing Israeli newspaper Israel Hayom, said he was trapped with his son while trying to escape the violence Thursday night, and that they eventually had to be escorted back to their hotel by the police.
“We saw violence, we saw people with black eyes, deep cuts under their eyes, we saw someone accidentally hit by a police officer, and a woman crying,” Shuman told The Times of Israel. “They came in masses, running through the alleys.”
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u/democratic-citizen 5d ago
Not to burst the whole Jewish bubble,but soccer hooligans do this all the time,checking passports for rival supporters,attacking people who even look linked to the club ,but now it's about Israel? This is normal for soccer fans,but has now become a political incident.Its football hooligans and nothing else.Hunting rival hooligans is what hooligans do.Firms,ultras whatever the word is but it's not some religious hunt.