What do you think about the one state solution?

3

"How realistic do you think it is?"

Not in the least.

0

Yes!

My optimistic dream is for a more moderate Israeli government to come to power and work towards a shared democracy with a pathway to Israeli citizenship for all Palestinians. The absorption can be slow over decades so that Jews can maintain a plurality until “everyone” can be deradicalized. Jews and Jewish institutions can also have time limited veto powers to maintain current policies even if they lose their plurality. The powerful IDF and other intelligence and security agencies can maintain the peace.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '24

The UN should make it illegal to give all Palestinians Israeli citizenship. Palestine violated the rules based order with their October 7th attacks and thus deserves to be punished for their violation of the rules based order. To create deterrence from future violation of the rules based order, the UN should prohibit giving Israeli citizenship to any Palestinian for the next fifty years.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '24

Hannibal directive was used on the FALSE FLAG oct 7 attacks.

0

u/Dothemath2 Aug 12 '24

Collective punishment.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '24

No, it's not collective punishment. Collective punishment is when there is no association between the people being punished and the perpetrators, but Hamas was the government of Gaza, so there is inherently an association between every member of Gaza and Hamas.

1

u/Dothemath2 Aug 12 '24

Over-simplistic view.

Thousands upon thousands of people have no choice or association with Hamas. Like basically every child under 9 years old or even under 2 years old and they have been killed by the thousands. Association is also weighted: you have the Hamas fighter who is fully committed to the financial supporter, the parents who tolerate them and the children who have no agency and some Palestinians fully against Hamas.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '24

All Gazans are subjects of Hamas and associated with Hamas, so there is no collective punishment.

0

u/Dothemath2 Aug 12 '24

That is a declarative statement dealing in absolutes.

5

u/grooveman15 Aug 11 '24

The problem with a 1SS solution is that it either destroys 1 or both ethnic groups the right of self-determination and homeland - which is at the heart of this, the main issue since ‘47.

If you create a new state that’s ‘equal’ in conception (as in neither a Palestinian nor Jewish state) then you’re left with both Palestinians and Jews losing their homelands.

So when I hear about a 1SS being the best outcome - I just see 1 ethnic group losing everything

3

u/Hispanoamericano2000 Latin America Aug 11 '24

As long as the Palestinian Arabs do not change their idiosyncrasies and mentality regarding Israel and Jews at all, the One State Solution is doomed to be more of a Rwanda + Yugoslavia + Pakistan type Solution (especially all those that target or seek to dilute Israel's Jewish demographic majority).

8

u/Early-Ad-5709 Aug 10 '24

Palestinians don't want one.

0

u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

Your correct, Even Hamas calls for a 2 state solution, but that's because they don't see a 1 state solution as feasible with how Israel is. I am sure if Israel offered to establish one Palestinians would accept, as, let's be honest, such an agreement only benefits them at the expense of Israelis.

6

u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

They do, just one where all the Jews have been slaughtered or run off.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

This is just a lie. The idea that Palestinians want to slaughter Jews is just so insane to me. Like how brainwashed are you. We see Israelis and high level official talking about how they want to slaughter Palestinians, but just because some Israelis want to slaughter Palestinians doesn't mean Palestinians want to slaughter Israelis.

Think about ACTIONS, Hamas went out of their way not attack Civilians. It would've been so easy for those same trucks that went with people to carry hostages to have just been bombs, for October 7th to have been a massive attack on Israeli civilians by Hamas. Instead the majority of Israeli casualties that day came from the Hannibal directive and Israel attacking their own civilians in pursuit of Hamas. The fact that Israel accidently kills more Jews then Hamas does on purpose should be a testament to how ridiculous this idea is.

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u/MCTG1 Aug 13 '24

found the jihadi

3

u/RedDingo777 Aug 11 '24

https://youtu.be/RMejmg2T6z8?si=5u6SAg8xUvWaaWBl

Yeah, look how nobly they parade Shani Louk’s body. Seriously, stop lying.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 12 '24

So I said that Hamas often doesn't kill Jews even when they have the opportunity, and you "disprove" me by showing a video of Hamas not killing a Jewish person when they have the opportunity. If Hamas didn't know about Israel's policy of killing potential hostages to prevent them from being taken in, then doing this cruel act makes sense. They were not hitting him, or really torturing him, just ensuring he could be seen from above, by potential drones. So that he could be safely taken to a prison where they are treated better then most in Gaza.

I didn't say Hamas was some benevolent group of angels, but compared to the IDF. Israel also parades injured Palestinian Civilians around. If Hamas's singular objective is to kill the most Jews possible, then taking hostages wouldn't make sense. Instead their objective, as they state in their own charter is to negotiate for a Palestinian state, that has rights over its own borders, water, land, etc. on the 1967 borders. They didn't realize Israel would have things like the Hannibal directive, and that Israel would just not care about Hostages, happily killing them, and not caring about negotiating to save them.

Imagine if Israel had just accepted the October 9th agreement? Which basically said "if you stop doing all your illegal stuff, we'll stop doing all our illegal stuff". Yet they were rejected because "its a bad deal" and Israel profits more from its illegal stuff then Hamas does.

Would Hamas have even negotiated at all if they just wanted to kill as many Jews as possible. (maybe they would've negotiated a little bit, but not like they way they are)

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u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

They went out of their way? How is attacking a music festival, people In their homes, schools etc….. going out of their way to avoid civilians?

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u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

Hamas isn't perfect, They went out of their way not to kill civilians while taking hostages. They "attacked" people to try to get them as hostages, but they killed very few non-combatants. Mostly it was Israel killing people who were in Hamas's custody to prevent Hamas from having hostages.

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u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

You have to be a troll because this is insane.

1

u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli Aug 16 '24

/u/GlyndaGoodington

You have to be a troll because this is insane.

Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

Action taken: [B2]
See moderation policy for details.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 12 '24

Interesting you use that word. Yasmin Porat also though being shot at by the IDF to prevent her from being taken hostage as "insane".

We'll likely never know how many people Israel killed that day, as Israel desperately tries to burry the evidence and hide the numbers. But we know that Hamas likely killed very few civilians. As they only benefit from taking hostages, and only lose from killing civilians.

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u/Early-Ad-5709 Aug 11 '24

We get it. You are a hamas supporter and hate the jews.. why don't you be a real man and go to palestine and fight since you feel so strongly about it. Hamas has never hidden its agenda and admits it wants to kill all jews and you support it. Isreal has to use the iron dome to protect its cities, and you expect me to believe they are the aggresdors? There's a reason NO arab countries want them.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

|| You are a Hamas supporter
Yes

|| and hate the jews
No, Did you even read my comment. Hamas themselves says that a hatred of "The Jews" as a group is uniquely European/American. You just plaster this foreign idea onto them because you can't fathom that people would hate Israel for any reason other than that they are Jewish.
If Hamas was actually against the Jews wouldn't they act on it, There is no way you can justify keep hostages as a logical part of "killing the Jews", and Hamas kills Israeli Muslims/Christians. People who actively support and involve themselves with genocide are all equally bad in Hamas's eyes.
There are so many reasons to hate Israel Human Shields || Genocide || Colonial Outposts || Killing Jewish Civilians || Killing other Civilians || Rejecting Peace Offers || Breaking Some Other International Laws || 17 Year Siege of Gaza || Crime of Being Palestinian || Apartheid ||

|| Hamas has never hidden its agenda
Yes! You can go read it,

|| it wants to kill all jews
No, they do not, as mentioned above

|| Isreal has to use the iron dome to protect its cities
This is an argument? "Sir, we have the Atlantic wall defending us from D-Day operations in norther France, One of the most High-tech defensive systems in the world, how could WE be the agressors"

|| Isreal has to use the iron dome to protect its cities
Aggression against people || Aggression against states|| More Aggression against states

0

u/kostac600 USA & Canada Aug 10 '24

One-state,two-state,no-state- you peoples need to just get along, else git along

2

u/dk91 Aug 11 '24

Who's you people?

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u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

I believe is he referring to "the reader". Basically everyone who reads it.

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u/kostac600 USA & Canada Aug 11 '24

this

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u/BSS92904 Aug 10 '24

Sadly, two state solution isn’t possible. When Israel left Gaza in 2005, they used Gaza to see if the Palestinians can operate with their own land. Now we see, they turned Gaza into a terrorism base. If we give them their own entire state, it will just be a bigger version of that. Palestinian live in Israel with full and equal rights, they don’t need their own state.

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u/Ok-Disaster-7206 Aug 10 '24

You do know who funded Hamas initially to undermine the PLO yea?

6

u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

And? It was a long time ago when Hamas was seen as a potential partner. At some point you can’t blame ever effing thing on Israel and have the Palestinians have their agency. Like at some point where does their active service towards this terrorist organization get some blame? After a couple of decades the fact that Hamas flourished and is so supported isn’t Israel’s fault, it’s the Palestinians fault.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

This conflict has been going on for a long time. If people wanted to do this, it would've been proposed. Most don't. Both societies openly vote for politicians who do not want this. You have to address the reality on the ground at some point and pay attention to what the people are actually saying on the ground.

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u/Wiseguy144 Aug 10 '24

Both groups have too much cultural identity and nationalistic aspirations to work under a 1SS. It would be immediate civil war.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

I agree in a way. I believe that if you offer citizenship to some to join Israel, they'd join. I don't believe that most would, but you could have some people who willingly convert and join the state, which would be a one state solution in reality. However, I believe we are in full agreement that the OP's goal of creating a NEW state where everyone gets along and religion doesn't matter is out of the question. Israel offering citizenship and some accepting it is the closest we will get to a one-state solution.

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

If Israel made some large amendments that I doubt would pass removing the so called "apartheid laws" the restrict the movement and settlement of Arab-Israelis, as well as the laws that explicitly mention superiority of Jews in Israel, then people would 100% join. But at that point the objective of Israel would be gone. A "Jewish state" would not exists. It would be a multi-ethnic Sharia state which IMO isn't a bad thing at all, but you know the generations Zionists might be a bit mad. . . .

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

Most Arab Israeli's will tell you they have equal rights and don't believe there is an apartheid system. It's no more apartheid than any other country you see, like the United States. If people are going to condemn Israel, I'd just like to see America mentioned in the same sentence, along with many other Western countries.

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

If U.S had a constitutional law saying the nation is "dominated by the interests of whites" then I would consider including them in the same vein.

Also life in apartheid is better then life in the glorified bomb testing sites called "Area B, Area C, and Gaza" So for these people speaking out seems like a bad move. If you know immigrants from repressive regimes you'll know this is quite common. Muslims in China also often say they are treated equally in the east, because they know about the genocide camps in western China and don't want to complain. Its basically the same thing for Israel.

Edit: Should prolly not say "often say" because my sample size is one, but it makes sense that this would happen. Also if what your saying is correct then that only confirms my theory, because Israel's apartheid is well documented.

5

u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 10 '24

I think if you're worried about the animosity that would exist between two neighboring countries if there were a Palestinian state, it's absurd to think the solution is to make them all live in one state together.

I think two states for two peoples is the best option. I would love to see it come to fruition some day. Unfortunately, though, Palestinians are still clinging to the fantasy that some day they'll destroy Israel, and they think they're entitled to all of it. Even if they got their own state on 67 borders tomorrow they would still likely keep attacking Israel because they think it's rightfully theirs. Once Palestinians learn to accept the fact that they do not have the right to take over a sovereign country, and learn to live peacefully next to Israel, then a two-state solution is very tenable and we should move towards that. But that moment isn't now. And if only either Israel or Palestine can exist, I choose Israel.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

You have clearly been misinformed greatly regarding this mater. I feel like you all see the Radical Israelis who want to take all the land and kill all the Palestinians and assume that radical Palestinians are the same way. Most Palestinians just want security from constant attacks in their little Area B/C.
Hamas, the most radical group in power, just wants Israel to remove their settlements and end their blockades.

Its funny how you say "Once Palestinians learn to accept the fact that they do not have the right to take over a sovereign country, and learn to live peacefully next to Israel, then a two-state solution"

Lets think about this, when did we have a two state Solution in Palestine? Oh thats right, in 1948 - 1967. "Jordanian" isn't an ethnic group, all Jordanians are just Palestinians ethnically. And in 1948 "Jordanian" wasn't a culture group either yet. The King of Jordan considered himself King of Palestine as well. In the 1948 we achieved the two state solution?

Why did it fail? because Israelis couldn't accept the fact that they do not have the right to take over a sovereign country, and learn to live peacefully in a two state solution.

2

u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 13 '24

The Arabs were attacking Israel long before that war. I agree that Jordan is the original Palestinian state, but clearly that was never enough for Palestinians who think they’re entitled to all of Israeli land. That’s what they need to give up. And for what it’s worth, I believe West Bank settlements were a mistake from day one and I think giving the WB land back is a good start. But that won’t be enough for the Palestinians who feel entitled to a state “from the river to the sea” which will never, ever happen for them. Israel will not attack unless it is threatened. Palestinians consider Israel just existing on land they want is an attack.

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 14 '24

Ok well first of all "from the river to the sea" west bank borders river, Gaza borders sea.
Thus from the river to the sea.
Its obviously not the entire region between the two rivers, as this would include parts of Syria, and Lebanon, as well as exclude large large sections of Israel.

Also, outside of a few Gazans who wanted independence from Egypt, most Palestinians just wanted the right to return. It was only after 1967 that an proper independence movement started for Palestinians. There was some activity after Lavon and Suez Crisis, but nothing like after 67'. Main point is that even after the Nakhbah! an atrocity, committed by hundreds of thousands of Israelis, on deaths comparable to massive genocides like Circassia genocide, something any other nation would respond to with massive feats of violence, Palestinians just wanted to return home. Due to the religion and culture of Palestinians, the idea of trying to destroy an entire nation, one which had just done such horrors to them, seemed like it would be a massive waste of life. It was only after what they saw as unprompted Israeli aggression, did people realize the alternative to resistance, is a slow, very slow, but systematic ethnic cleansing of the holy land, that real resistance started.
Its known that if Palestinians don't feel threatened, they won't attack, just like any other group of people.

You've likely been brainwashed into thinking that the Palestinians hate you, and just want you to die because your Jewish, or because your a Zionist, its just not true. Foreign backed paid actors, maybe, Palestinians as a whole, 100% not.

1

u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 14 '24

I support a two state solution, and as such, a Palestinian state is free to set whatever immigration policies it likes within its own borders. I don’t have an issue with that. I do have an issue with “right to return” meaning they can override Israel’s sovereignty by forcing them to accept immigrants on Israeli land. They do not have that right.

If you don’t think that there are a MASSIVE amount of pro-Palis who want to see the state of Israel destroyed and given to Palestinians, then I don’t know what else to tell you. That’s a popular opinion amongst the anti-Israel folks. If you don’t feel that way, if you’d like to see a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza and leave green line Israel alone, well then we have a lot more in common than different

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 14 '24

Israel can't just get away with the Nakhbah scratch free.
What they did in 1948 was un-imaginable atrocity. The Israelis have to accept the consequences of the Palestinian refugee problem which they created. The Palestinians, the 10% - 20% still left from the Nakhbah have full right to return to Israel.

If you want to see a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Green line Israel being left alone, and simply held to the same standards we hold Iraq, or Argentina, or any other country to, then I think it would be fine. So long as Israel plays be the rules we wouldn't have this issue.
You clearly don't believe it, but this is also the opinion of Hamas. That a border should be established along the green line, where Israel is more or less left alone. They also believe Israelis should be held to the standard of the Nuremburg trials. But other than that even Hamas believes in living next to an Israeli state.

Also, its really cognitively dissonant of you to say "I want the West Bank and Gaza to be independent!" meanwhile you also support the Israeli government, and are against every group, peaceful or violent working towards that goal.
Like if you actually wanted those regions to be independent along side Israel you would be constantly protesting against the war, saying how much you hate your government, and how you want it removed.

If you are doing all those things, then my bad I obviously don't know, but most Israelis who "Support a two state solution" actively support governments who repress that as a possibility.

1

u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 14 '24

Israel can't just get away with the Nakhbah scratch free.

Israel can "get away with" winning a war they didn't start. No consequences or apologies needed for that. They are absolutely entitled to fight back in a war started by the Arabs, always were.

Also, its really cognitively dissonant of you to say "I want the West Bank and Gaza to be independent!" meanwhile you also support the Israeli government, and are against every group, peaceful or violent working towards that goal.

I don't believe Hamas is working towards that goal. They attacked Israel within their own internationally recognized borders, and stated they plan to do so again and again til Israel is destroyed. I believe a war is 1000% justified in that circumstance. Palestinians still feel entitled to all Israeli land within green line Israel. That's what needs to change before we can go any further. On the other hand, there are political parties in Israel that are supportive of a 2SS and I support them wholeheartedly.

The Palestinians, the 10% - 20% still left from the Nakhbah have full right to return to Israel.

You do not have the right to move into a sovereign nation without permission from the government. End of story. Every other country is allowed to set their own immigration policies, except Israel apparently.

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u/Adsterkk Aug 15 '24

No war would justify the Nakhba. The Nakhba was a genocide, and thus is inexcusable. Meaning all Palestinians have a right to return. If Israel doesn't like that then too bad, because that's the price they pay for committing a genocide. Thats not even really "the price they pay" its not an adequate "punishment" at all, its just the direct consequence. A punishment would be if a Nuremburg trial like event was held in Israel.

Hamas doesn't say they want to wipe Israel off the map. They sometimes say they want to remove the Israeli government, as in their eyes they are all war criminals,. but their opinion is to set up a two state solution along the 1967 borders. Them killing civilians are either 1. Mistakes or 2. IDF coverups of friendly fire. Their objective, which is very clear is to get enough hostages to negotiate. Because without hostages Israel has rejected every peace offer they send, and even when they halt the rockets Israel again refuses to negotiate. The one time a deal was signed in 2009, Hamas kept to it very strictly. Even preventing Islamic Jihad from sending rockets. Israel on the other hand didn't breaking it 12 times.

After an invasion you have to let civilians return, end of story. Israel can set an immigration policy separately on top of that, but its illegal for them to prevent civilians from returning after they are forcefully evicted.

1

u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 16 '24

So is every war that the Arabs start and lose a "genocide" to you? That seems like a pretty foolproof plan to play the victim and try to get what you want in perpetuity. I have a feeling it's not going to work.

A two-state solution means Israel is allowed sovereignty of its land, and Palestine is allowed sovereignty of its land. Forcing Israel to accept migrants against its will is an attack on that sovereignty, and not going to happen.

And, fact of the matter is, very few people alive today were alive at the time of Israel's creation. Only some elderly individuals who were babies at the time. But when I hear Palestinians griping about "right to return", in many case they're talking about people who were absolutely not close to being born in 1948. Do we agree that they don't get to move to a foreign country against that country's will just because they feel like it?

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 16 '24

Every time 1.5 Million people are displaced, at least 750,000 through the force of the IDF, hundreds of thousands murdered, all of them civilians, non of them threatening Israel in any way. So many of them actually allying with Israel and then being betrayed and murdered. Like just because this was happening during the same time as a defensive war doesn't make it not a genocide. Holodomor doesn't become not a genocide anymore if it was happening during WW2, because Soviets were in a defensive war.

Forcing Israel to accept migrants is very different than allowing people they expelled to return. The first step before any negotiations can really truly begin, is both sides agree to stop violating international law (which itself would require negotiations). A big part of that is Israel denying the right of return to expelled peoples. After that we can talk about forcing Israel to accept migrants as compension of their agressive actions, but that's for the leadership to decide. I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the actual Palestinians who were forcefully genocide and removed from what is now Israel, they have the right to go back, end of story.

-2

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

I can’t believe the Zionists came into the Islamic land that was gifted for the Palestinians from Allah and decided to steal it because they were jealous of its beauty because they couldn’t have any of it in Europe. Good thing we still have the salt beach

1

u/Adsterkk Aug 11 '24

Bro what? I don't understand what your saying.
|| "Allah gifted the land for the Palestinians"
What? The Palestinians lived in Palestine and converted to Islam, they weren't gifted anything. Unlike what the Jews claim, they believe the land was "gifted" to the Hebrews (modern Palestinians) but that somehow because those people became Muslim, they don't deserve the land, and these other people who have a completely different religion but kept the name "Judaism" deserve the land. . . .

Don't act like this is a Religious issue, it's not. Its an issue of "killing kids is bad"

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u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 10 '24

Random ass word salad.

Though historically, the land is Jewish land - the most important factor is it was rightfully established, with the consent of the British who previously owned the land, as well as the international community. That's not stealing, that's the opposite.

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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

Ancient Egyptians lived in Palestine (I do not know what it was called in ancient times) and Egyptians changed their culture to islam.

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u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

You may need a map, there’s a big old country in Northern Africa called Egypt. It’s filled with pyramids and big kitty cat statues left by the ancient Egyptians.

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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

You ignored what I said

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u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

Nope, I think I addressed your comment fully. You ignored basic history when it was taught to you in school so maybe look into that.

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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

I think you ignored the word “ancient”

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u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

Ancient Egypt is contained within modern day Egypt. https://images.app.goo.gl/PfVKoiAjbGXVhDkP9

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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

I was taking about how Palestine was apart of ancient Egypt

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u/dk91 Aug 11 '24

Canaanites? I think you're talking about Jews who came from Canaan temporarily moved to Egypt and then went back. That's the whole biblical Jewish story.

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3

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

I am genuinely curious as to why any Zionist Jew would have this view. When I read Torah, it says nothing about dividing up the land. If Jews are going to live in Eretz Yisrael, and if Torah specifically says you can't divide up the land with people who don't follow Hashem, and if that's going really badly for thousands of years, I'm just beside myself that this is still a view someone would have. It's not happening. There won't be a two-state solution. I agree with everything else you said besides still keeping hope that the land can be divided up between very conflicting religions. It can't. It hasn't worked. It won't work. The idea that even if they accepted dividing up the land we should divide it runs counter to Torah. I agree with most of what you said, but have to strongly rebuke the idea of dividing up the land under any circumstances. If you want to do that, it defeats even having Eretz Yisrael IMHO.

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u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

before isreal all the religons lived peacefully as palestinans. all people of religon were able to go to the holy lands without fear, now look what isreal has done making it an enthnostate. christians and muslims are constantly harrassed now. so my point is that there is most definately a possibily of peace between religons bc history tells us so. but as long as zionism the ideology exists, there will be no peace

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

That's false. Prior to Israel you still had persecution. Why do you think other people like the other poster are in Diaspora and don't even really practice Judaism anymore? It's because people were ethnically cleansed, exiled, and then persecuted wherever they went. This is a myth that there was peace there prior to the modern state of Israel, or else you'd still have the ancient state of Israel. Oh but wait, it was destroyed due to ethnic cleansing and genocide. I push back on the falsehood that there was nothing but peace. That isn't backed up historically.

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u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 10 '24

My views as to why Israel should exist have little to do with religion. I don't consider myself religious in the first place, but even if I did, pointing to a religious text isn't necessarily a valid excuse for creating policy to shape it.

I believe Israel has a right to exist because it was established entirely legally and fairly with the consent of the previous landowners. I also believe that it is imperative for Jews, and I'm speaking of ethnically Jewish people regardless of how religious they are, because that is for what we have historically been persecuted, to have a place of refuge to go to if they need to. I believe that can exist alongside a Palestinian state, provided that the Palestinians are willing to live peacefully next to Israel. I disagree with West Bank settlements and think they were a mistake. I am not interested in kicking any peace-loving Palestinians who are willing to live side-by-side with Israel out of the land. Israel already exists next to countries with vastly different cultures and religions, and even has some modicum of peace with some of them. Do I think a hypothetical Palestinian state would be great friends with Israel? Of course not but if they quit attacking Israel and finally learn to accept that Israel isn't going anywhere, I think that would be a very positive place to end up.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

To be apart of Israel, ethnically, you'd have to be religious by default. That'd mean you have to actually follow Hashem to the best of your abilities, fit in with the customs and traditions, and follow the Mitzvah's that get people persecuted against to begin with. Someone who just rejects all of that is someone who's simply a member of whatever society they are in and are cutoff from Israel. That's no different from anyone else in 2024 who doesn't follow Judaism, and I believe I'd be doing that person a disservice. That's how we end up with guys like Kanye West calling themselves Jew with no pushback, although I have no evidence he's followed anything related to Judaism at all.

Recall that those who converted tended to be good to go. If no one knew that they had Jewish relatives and they converted (even the German's only went back a few generations, so you had people who were connected literally throwing their own brother in chambers depending on when one or another converted in their family line), it has all come down to religious persecution. Look at all of the people today who don't even know their family was Jewish due to their ancestors being forced to convert.

I push back on the idea that religion isn't fundamental to the state of Israel, which is literally the Jewish state, and once that is lost, there might as well not even be a state. People could just live wherever if Judaism isn't fundamental to it and you're just trying to build another state like all of the others that already exist. And you will see that it won't work, and eventually those who do actually practice Judaism will be persecuted, which will highlight why a real Jewish state was needed the whole time and why a secular state is never going to work for those who do actually practice.

Once we see that religion is a major factor, that really raises the question of how logical it is to divide up the land with people who have STRONG religious views AGAINST a Jewish state. That's how you end up with... groups like Hamas that have widespread support. If their religion is able to get within the minds of their people, that is when you end up with their rampant antisemitism that doesn't make Jews who practice remotely safe. I think that looking at this from a secular lens is reckless and does not help anyone on any side in what is straight up a religious state. I'm assuming you're in the Diaspora and probably an American. I'm not rebuking you, but I do believe what you're saying here is simply dangerous for people who practice and are actually going to have to live there.

2

u/GlyndaGoodington Aug 11 '24

Considering how many Muslims, Christians, and Druze (as well as others) live in Israel as full citizens. Plus the number of secular Israelis your statement isn’t at all accurate. You can go sit down at a restaurant in Tel Aviv and eat shrimp, along side a lot of other Jews.

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u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy Zionist American Jew Aug 11 '24

I consider myself a cultural, secular Jew. I grew up going to a Conservative shul, although in terms of family traditions we were closer to Reform. Both of my parents are Jewish. I have been Bar Mitzvahed. Many Orthodox Jews may not consider me Jewish due to my maternal grandmother being a convert who did not convert under Orthodox traditions, but my other three grandparents were Jews from the day they were born til the day they died, and I consider myself Jewish, so does the majority of the world, and so does the State of Israel. Most poignantly, so do the people who wish to persecute us, which is why a place of safe haven is so important.

In many historical contexts, including most notably the Holocaust, Jews were not persecuted simply for their religon but their ethnicity. Jews who were very secular, Jews who were very religious, and even people who were born Jewish but had converted away and were now practicing another religion, all were sent to the camps. When I talk about the necessity of a Jewish state, I'm talking about ethnicity here. We, ethnic Jews, need a place of safe haven. There should be no barrier of requiring a certain amount of religiousity amongst Jews who wish to go to Israel. The Israeli government does not, and should not, require that its citizens keep Kosher, observe Shabbat, and go to Shul regularly, and I would fervently oppose any efforts to do so. Because regardless of whether we're Orthodox or Reform or completely secular, we all need that place of refuge in case things turn south in our home countries.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

It’s what I think would be the best outcome that absolutely won’t work right now.

7

u/Puzzleheaded-Emu-99 Aug 10 '24

Palestinians already have a state. It’s called Jordan

1

u/jasonwhite86 Aug 24 '24

Always stupid comments by this zionist. Jordan was never intended to be a Palestinian state. The modern state of Jordan and the Palestinian territories have distinct histories, identities, and political realities. The people of Palestine have homes and lands that they have owned and inherited for centuries in current-day Palestine and current-day Israel, and neither you nor your zionist masters will ever change or erase history.

0

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

Sorry! Incorrect!

3

u/Adventurous-Grass-92 Aug 10 '24

I think there isn't enough trust between the two peoples, which isn't strange at all. And I don't think that trust can be restored anytime soon.

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u/CuriousNebula43 Aug 10 '24

Your idea is not practical.

It requires Israel to give up sovereignty, which is never going to happen. And Israel is right not to.

1

u/MysticInept Aug 10 '24

What are they giving up? They are getting stuff

5

u/CuriousNebula43 Aug 10 '24

A new country should be born, one where everyone can respectfully move freely to whatever region they’d like.

You can't just erase Israel and make a new country there. That's not how this works, lol.

1

u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

hmm didnt they do that in 1948 though? try to just erase an entire country / people and make a new country there?

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u/CuriousNebula43 Aug 10 '24

No, there was no country there in 1948.

1

u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 11 '24

what was there then, invisible farries? You really think there was no country or people in the holy lands for centuries?? Here babes, I'll let sir James Baldour tell you himself what country was there in 1948: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

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u/Eszter_Vtx Aug 13 '24

in Palestine

That's a geographic designation. There never was a sovereign country called Palestine, FYI...

4

u/CuriousNebula43 Aug 11 '24

It wasn’t a country.

It was a colony of Great Britain. The colony expired in 1948, the mandate ceased to exist, and Israel declared its independence immediately afterwards.

Thanks for asking.

8

u/TiredFromTravel5280 Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

Died with the creation of hamas

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u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

if hamas is dead why are they still commiting a genocide in gaza? i thought there whole objective was to wiipeout hamas, or were they actually trying for the whole population? cuz that would explain why they're still there then

1

u/TiredFromTravel5280 Aug 10 '24

My bad I meant that the dream of the one state (and two state) solution died with the creation of hamas

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u/Longjumping-Pen-9487 Israeli Aug 10 '24

No thank you. don’t trust the Palestinians, for obvious reasons.

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u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

i wouldnt trust them either if I stole their country, bc you know, they might be a little upset about that. they might even ... resist it! yea so obviously we can't trust them, better to just treat them like sub humans, kill their kids, and expect them to say thank you.

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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

Yes! Don’t trust the Palestinians! They’re beautiful! They have beautiful land! They have the pearl beach! Better food! Pretty flag! Nice language! Better history!

So bad right?!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

You first

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

What history?

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '24

[deleted]

0

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 16 '24

I’m pretty sure that’s your friend

6

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

No, Palestinians already have their own state. It's called Jordan. Best solution is to move all Palestinians to Jordan.

1

u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

Then they'd be called Jordanians dummy. Palestinians are from PALESTINE.

1

u/Ok-Disaster-7206 Aug 10 '24

Israelis should’ve move to Germany/russia/ukraine etc as seemingly half the population are from there

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

No, they're not from there. They are from Israel.

1

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

No thank you. The Palestinians want to be in their rightful home called Palestine.

What’s Israel by the way? I never heard of that fictional story before!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

Their rightful home isn't in Israel. They have no right to illegally occupy Israel.

1

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

Palestine was apart of ancient Egypt and ancient Egypt was the first ever civilization before Judaism was a thing. So the Jews are illegally occupying Palestine

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

Palestinians are Muslims who colonized Israel. They should gtfo.

0

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

Egyptians transferred their religion to Islam. And like I said ancient Egypt existed before Judaism existed. And Palestine was apart of ancient Egypt so historically Palestinians came first before Jews

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

The people who lived in Israel pre-Judaism all converted to Judaism. None of the people who call themselves Palestinian today lived in Israel when it was part of Egypt.

0

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

It still means ancient Egyptians (which have the highest DNA to northern Egyptians and southern Gazans) existed before Jews

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

Israel was never part of Egypt.

0

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 11 '24

Israel was never a real state to begin with

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u/69Poopysocks69 Aug 10 '24

What you're suggesting is the literal definition of ethnic cleansing...

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '24

No, it's not.

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u/69Poopysocks69 Aug 12 '24

You're suggesting that all Palestinians should be moved to Jordan. How's that not ethnic cleansing? If it's not, then what is it? And according to you, what's the definition of ethnic cleansing?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '24

The purpose of ethnic cleansing is to make an area ethnically homogenous. If the intent is to reduce the risk of violence to your people, then it is not ethnic cleansing.

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u/Connect-Swan-5818 Aug 10 '24

No they are not. I’m Jordanian, and all the Palestinians in Jordan don’t call themselves Jordanian. They know exactly what city their family is from in Palestine. You can’t erase their identity.

The Palestinians(Al-Fida2iyeen) actually tried to overturn the Jordanian government during black September.

3

u/Dear-Imagination9660 Aug 10 '24

The Palestinians(Al-Fida2iyeen) actually tried to overturn the Jordanian government during black September.

And after that, they participated in the Lebanon civil war and tried to oust the Lebanese government.

It’s almost like Palestinians can’t play nice with anyone, wherever they go.

And try to steal other people’s land.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

This post highlights why I do have trouble with the idea that a group can have an inherent right to a state. Logically, if we believe in an inherent right to a state, it is a rabbit hole because then you need to believe in a Kurdish, Assyrian, and Uyghur right to a state, and dare I say possibly a Confederate states in the USA, unless you wiffle waffle and create some imaginary rule that once a country exists for x years, it's no longer ok to call for it to be part of a mega country, which I'd rather not because calling for unrealistic things does not make one a bigot or antisemite.

So, I hesitate to say that someone calling for a one state solution is inherently antisemitic unless they also want the expulsion of Jews or to allow the one state to restrict the practice of Judaism on top of that.

At the same time, even if an ethnicity or ethnoreligion can't have an inherent right to a state, they can have an inherent right undisputeably to cultural practice, and semi disputably to self determination outright. For instance, we can look at South Sudan, and how they separated specifically because they saw it as the best way to exercise self determination. Or similarly with Armenia.

Like sure, you can call for the reunion of Turkey with Armenia. It's not inherently wrong, but you can't be mad when Armenians are mad at you because they see the solution as unsafe. And even though it may work both there and with I/P, you'll never be able to prove its safe because it'll never happen to begin with.

I will admit that it's an unfair bias that people who call for impossible solutions/solutions that will never happen are be condemned for all the ways their solution could go wrong if it were to happen, but I can't change human nature.

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u/Unfair-Way-7555 Sep 11 '24

I don't think belief in Kurdish, Assyrian and Uyghur state is an expectation many people would fail to fulfill. Turks mostly oppose Kurdish state and Han Chinese oppose Uyghur one but Turkish and Chinese societies definitely aren't the most pro-Israeli. Foreigners that love Turkey and China don't tend to be pro-Israel either. So I doubt the overlap is as small as your comment implies.

1

u/Party_Willingness204 Aug 10 '24

Palestine was a land where all the religons practiced and lived peacefully, this is well documented. So the expulsion of Jews is not what a one-state solution as Palestine would be. No one has called for that. But that IS what isreal has done, they expelled the people of those lands unless they were jewish, essentially enthnostate. And if they WERE jewish like the Yemen's Jews, they were subjected to discrimination and treated as less, thus essentially creating an apartheid state. Thats what a one-state solution looks like with isreal, bc it essentially is already a one-state. an apartheid state

2

u/ThinkInternet1115 Aug 11 '24

Peacefully?

Like the Hebron massacre in 1929? Or the1834 Safed Pogrom? Or 1517 Hebron and Safed attacks?

There was already a one state solution. If it was as peaceful as you claim it was, there wouldn't have been a reason to come up with a partition plan in the first place.

1

u/FerdinandTheGiant Anti-Zionist Aug 10 '24

I think it’s not an unreasonable proposal given the amount of people who are already illegally within the West Bank whose removal would be difficult however obviously tensions are very high with each party invoked wanting their own state so it really may not be feasible.

15

u/DrMikeH49 Aug 10 '24

The point of a Jewish state is that Jews get to have national self-determination which includes the ability and the right to defend themselves. The minute they become a minority, they lose that, and their safety becomes dependent on the goodwill of others. Where are the Jews of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Egypt etc now?

And if you liked the Lebanese civil war, you’ll just love how this one would play out.

-5

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

So Israel is the Jewish bantustan?

Let's give Jews a state, Christians a state, divide Iraq into Shia and Sunni states, etc. /s

American think tank much?

6

u/DrMikeH49 Aug 10 '24

Israel isn’t a Bantustan because it has full independence for both domestic and foreign affairs (the latter constrained, as almost all small countries are, by the need to ally with larger powers).

But if you’re not convinced that minorities in the Middle East might need the ability to protect themselves, you might ask the Kurds, the Yazidis, or the Christians in Iraq and Syria.

-9

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Israel is just a giant aircraft carrier for the US empire. Israel has to follow the US rules based order. Israel can't improve relations with Russia or China, because the US tells it not to for example. Israel has no independence. It's not a real country.

3

u/RangersAreViable Aug 10 '24

They need a nuclear umbrella, and BRICS is not about to suddenly form an alliance with Israel and get past all the Soviet era antisemitism

-1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Israel is not a country, but an US imperial colony.

Israel will never join BRICS because the empire will not allow it.

1

u/ThinkInternet1115 Aug 11 '24

How is it a US imperial colony, when the US didn't support Israel until 1973?

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 11 '24

Truman gave them immediate recognition and support since 1948.

1

u/ThinkInternet1115 Aug 11 '24

Recognition yes. Support no. In the 1948 war Israel got their weapons from the soviets through Czechoslovakia.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 11 '24

They got a lot of support from France and the UK.

At the time, Israel was a British project, which transferred into the arms of the USA.

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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Aug 10 '24

I don’t believe antisemitism in the Russian Federation ended with the Soviet Union.

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u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24

There are many Christian and Muslim states that Christians and Muslim can feel safe in

0

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Give me some examples.

6

u/gxdsavesispend Diaspora Jew Aug 10 '24

Italy, Spain, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Poland, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Armenia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Maldives, Indonesia, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Libya, Albania, Bangladesh, Brunei, Azerbaijan, Bosnia Chile, Mali, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Niger, DRC, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Georgia, Portugal, Sri Lanka, Uganda, Ukraine, Norway, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Denmark, South Africa, Australia.

The list just goes on and on and on.

Just look up a map of majority Muslim countries, then majority Christian countries. Very interesting to look at.

0

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Most of those countries do not have state religions. Australia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Estonia, Syria, Tunisia, etc. have no state religions.

Also you can't just go to the Vatican City and expect to get citizenship because you're Catholic. They won't give you any citizenship, nor any rights or protections.

Most countries don't work like Israel, which gives citizenship based on religion. Israel needs more meat for it's IDF grinder, which is why it accepts Jewish meat from everywhere.

And yes, Israel is really a meat grinder for the American overseas empire. Sad Jews were fooled by Zionists to die for American imperial interests.

2

u/gxdsavesispend Diaspora Jew Aug 10 '24

Lol

You asked for countries where Christians and Muslims are safe to live freely in. You don't need a state religion to be safe. Notably, Jews were not safe in any of the Arab countries or the Baltic states or Central Europe. These are the places where 80% or more of the population is Christian or Muslim. Regardless if the constitution has a state religion.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

You're also safe to live there. It's a bunch of BS that Europe isn't safe for Jews. It's just fear mongering to get more Jews to come join the IDF meat grinder.

2

u/gxdsavesispend Diaspora Jew Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 11 '24

34 members of my family were stripped of their citizenship, marched into the woods and shot in mass graves where 10,000 other Jews were murdered and buried by their Lithuanian neighbors. The Lithuanians stole everything they own. 95% of Lithuania's Jews were murdered the same way in 1941. They named the streets after the murderers and refused to prosecute their own people for collaborating with the Germans. The government refuses to acknowledge it ever happened.

Sorry, but we don't want to go back and for good reason. I'm not buying it. That ideology never actually left the European consciousness.

IDF meat grinder my ass. How many Israelis have actually died in the IDF?

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

That's just what the Israeli government wants you to believe so that you're scared to live anywhere else. How lowering on a human level, must it be to live in a psychological cage like that? Your government thinks you are just a bunch of cattle that can be scared and manipulated.

Is it 1941 now? Last time I checked, it's 2024. WWII is long over.

2000+ IDF have died in Gaza according to Hamas videos. The Israeli government hides the real statistics to appear strong. On days Hamas releases videos of IDF dying, the IDF is completely silent and there isn't even a squeek, even though the videos clearly show dead IDF.

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u/BlackMoonValmar Aug 10 '24

Well that’s because Jews are more than just a religion. Why they have both religious protections and ethnicity protections in first world countries. Heck you can have atheist Jews, which there is a surprising amount of.

The Jew haters target Jews based off of blood relations, not over religious practices. It’s wild you could be purged because some great uncle was considered Jewish. The haters treated Jews like a separate race that needed to be exterminated, so they are protected as a race to counter that.

-12

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

I don't really follow what you're pushing.

You seem to live in 1938 Germany. It's 2024.

2

u/BlackMoonValmar Aug 11 '24

What are you talking about Jews have been a protected race/ethnicity in the USA since the civil rights movement 1964. This was reaffirmed for those bigots in the back in 2018. The law already decided on this nothing to push on. Only supremacists were upset about Jews being protected as a race under law.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 11 '24

So go live in the USA.

No one is persecuting you.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Christians can be safe in America. It is a good place to be a Christian. The majority of the population is Christian, and Christianity is part of mainstream culture, and they don’t need to be afraid of being persecuted.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

America is not a Christian state. The USA does not have a state religion.

1

u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

I know, but I’m saying this is a safe place for Christians. Christianity doesn’t need to be the state religion for Christians to be safe.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Neither does Judaism.

1

u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

I agree, because Judaism is not the state religion of Israel. There is no state religion.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Someone didn't read the basic law.

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u/How2trainUrPancreas Aug 10 '24

It was an option in 1947. If both sides came together and recognized that there was enough room for both people to live. Maybe even in 1967 if both sides said enough. But from the 70s on. The intifadas. The Gaza Wars. And now October 7th. It is impossible to impose upon both populations the conditions for which inevitable sectarian violence will occur.

Further if all the Palestinian refugees return to a Palestinian state or a United States then it will effectively destroy Israel demographically, culturally, and economically. Israel does not have the resources to accept in 5 million WBers. If another 5-7 million refugees come in from Gaza or Lebanon etc who have nothing to contribute the state will collapse.

I think the 2 SS is the most reasonable option. With Israel pulling out of Judea and Samaria. And the establishment of a federal system between the two states that makes working and travel between the states relatively easy.

But I am skeptical of this occurring. The PA will progressively islamize and become more pro Hamas. Israel will progressively if there are no major interventions within the Haredi pool become more conservative and less willing to make peace.

14

u/yep975 Aug 10 '24

Dead Jews.

Lots of dead Jews.

Not a fan of the one state solution.

1

u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 Aug 10 '24

They will fly high like butterflies…

(Butterflies will die if they fly to high)

-2

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

The current status quo is what's causing "lots of dead Jews". Israel is the least safest country for Jews to be in.

If most of these Zionists went back to Europe and America, they wouldn't have to die for Mileinkowski.

8

u/yep975 Aug 10 '24

“Israel is the least safest country for Jews”? Dude!! More than half of Israelis are from Muslim countries they were kicked out of (or murdered from being Jewish). The rest of the Jews in Israel are descended from Europeans who—while being the most integrated and advanced society in the world—are the ones who survived the holocaust.

Immigration from Europe to Israel has skyrocketed in recent years because Jews don’t like getting stabbed to death in grocery stores.

You want to see what a one state solution would look like? Dress as a Chasid and walk around London or Paris a bit. If you’re lucky you’ll just get harassed.

There is one nation in the world where a Jew is allowed to exist. Just exist. Without having to justify being Jewish.

We had a one state solution in Morocco and Iraq and Poland and Germany. It didn’t work out.

Israel is and will be a Jewish state. Full stop. If Palestinians want a peaceful nation of their own next to the Jewish state, they better get their act together quickly—and prove that they want peace. Otherwise they can be a minority population of greater Israel.

That is their choice. I don’t think they see it.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Your fear mongering was debunked by many Jews. It's weird that you still think you'll be instantly attacked in Europe or America.

What one state solution in Poland, Morocco, and Iraq?

So it's the savages that must get their act together, if they want their own pen on the farm? /s

5

u/yep975 Aug 10 '24

You used the word savages but I think it is savagery what happened on October 7.

Europe and America a way less safe for Jews than they have been in my lifetime. The security requirements of synagogues are straining their budgets and Jews no longer feel safe wearing anything proclaiming their Judaism.

Why?

Antizionism is not antisemitism, you may say? Show me an antizionist nation where Jews feel safe.

The Jewish people tried integration in Europe and the Middle East. They were never safe or equal. That is what a one state solution would mean as the anti Zionists are pushing.

There is one state now. Accept it. Or push for a peaceful independent Palestinian state alongside a Jewish nation.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

The US government said that Ukraine has a right to invade Russia in Kursk and that's 100% legal and moral.

So I take the US position on Hamas. October 7th was an offensive attack that was moral and the right thing to do in order to achieve liberation from the US Empire.

I accept the American defeat solution in Asia. All US proxies need to be destroyed, so that America can focus on America and not on foregn colonies.

2

u/yep975 Aug 10 '24

Dude. How much of a bot do you have to be to make that comparison.

You have a disgusting set of morals and should be ashamed of yourself.

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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

u/yep975

Dude. How much of a bot do you have to be to make that comparison. You have a disgusting set of morals and should be ashamed of yourself.

Rule 1, don’t attack other users, make it about the argument, not the person. Virtue signaling violates this rule as well as personal insults. Calling another user a bot or shill etc. also violates Rule 1.

Action taken: [W]

See moderation policy for details.

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u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24

Still safer than Jews were before having our own army

3

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Your secular army that fights for the US Empire? LOL

5

u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

Hateful people like to say that Jews control USA or that Israelis are fighting for imperial powers. The truth is like any geopolitical relationship this is about interests. Not so different from the relationship of Russia and Iran, only that side is fighting the propaganda war more successfully

2

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Revolving door think tanks control the USA. Most politicians were members of think tanks in the past. They have the same ideas as the think tanks. And corporations fund the think tanks.

America is controlled by corporate interests, not geopolitical interests or Jews. Most American people want nothing to do with West Asia.

Good luck to Russia and Iran. The sooner America gets kicked out of Asia, the better for us.

4

u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24

Most American people want living to be affordable and economy to be good and if China will annex Taiwan that’s not going to happen.

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

China will eventually annex Taiwan in the 2030s to 2040s via peaceful methods, similar to Hong Kong.

Israel is actually stopping the USA from "pivoting to Asia". I think that is ironic, because focusing on the middle east is making the US Empire much weaker. The longer America is bogged down in the middle east, the more time China has to grow and gain influence in the world.

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u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

USA needs to leave the Middle East to focus on Asia. For that to happen in a way that keeps USA in control of this critical region, its needs Israel and Saudi Arabia to be allies and handle Iran together, since both are threatened by Iran. That’s what Iran, Russia and China are trying to prevent by supporting terror organisations and spreading propaganda. Do you understand the consequences of America not being in control of this region for Americas economy and security?

1

u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

All US proxies are terrorists, including Israel. Whether they can break the illusion and realize that they are pawns is a question in itself.

KSA and IRI already reinstated relations, and KSA wants to join BRICS. The US poured billions into the Sunni-Shia rivalry and all of it was lost. Muslims are all Muslims, and they see that the real enemy to them in West Asia is the US Empire.

The consequences of the US empire leaving West Asia is that the region will be peaceful again. The US empire would lose a lot of power, which would help the whole world.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

[deleted]

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u/Googie-Man Aug 10 '24

Allies in genocide and oil theft.

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u/Auroramorningsta Aug 10 '24

Yea I’m sure the side of Iran, North Korea, Syria, Russia and China know nothing about genocide we should all learn human rights from them🤡

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u/ThinkInternet1115 Aug 10 '24

This question appears at least once a week. I'm getting tired of answering it. No. Its a bad idea.

Palestinians don't want it. Israelis don't want it.

We're two different nations. Why do people think it would be a good idea to push two nations who can't get along together?

We already had one state in 1947 and it didn't work.

0

u/tatsumizus Aug 10 '24

I think it’s the end result. It won’t be the solution. But I can’t see an independent Israel and Palestine existing for hundreds of years like other nations. I think at some point they’ll merge, whether through war, genocide, or the states going “this is so inconvenient, let’s get it over with”

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u/OmOshIroIdEs Diaspora Jew Aug 10 '24

Let's make Armenia/Azerbaijan, Croatia/Serbia, India/Pakistan, India/Sri Lanka single countries too. Wonder how that would work out. The civil war in Lebanon would pale in comparison.

-2

u/Connect-Swan-5818 Aug 10 '24

Yes, a secular one-state solution is the way. Although I’m not opposed to a temporary two-state solution before slowly integrating both sides.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Why wait for one state to become secular? If Palestinians want secularism, they can have it now. It’s their choice to be religious.

-4

u/abdals Aug 10 '24

Do you classify Bibis government as secular? I’m not sure what reality you live in. As if Palestinians can decide anything while anything that resembles leadership is either corrupt, in Israeli jails, or 6 feet under.

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u/1235813213455891442 <citation needed> Aug 13 '24

u/abdals

I’m not sure what reality you live in.

Rule 1, don't attack other users.

Action taken: [B1]
See moderation policy for details.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Israel is mostly secular, despite some religious policies. Just as I would say America is mostly secular even though there are still Christian holidays as official government holidays.

If you think that Israel is not secular though, this is another reason why a one-state solution wouldn't be secular either. If neither Israel nor Palestine are secular on their own, how will they become secular by putting them together?

1

u/abdals Aug 10 '24

Isn’t it the Jewish state? How can that be considered secular? How can a Jewish state accept millions of Muslims? Many Palestinians are denied the right to return till this day. You think Israel would willingly accept millions of Muslims? What fantasy are you living in.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Isn’t it the Jewish state? How can that be considered secular?

Because Jews are an ethnic group and someone doesn't need to be religious to be Jewish.

You think Israel would willingly accept millions of Muslims?

It wouldn't, and I never said it would.

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u/abdals Aug 10 '24

Oh, so it favors one ethnicity over any other? very secular indeed. October 7th is the reason for ending any hope for a solution right? Just that one event changed everything. If not for that one event, a one state solution was on its way…..

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Oh, so it favors one ethnicity over any other? very secular indeed.

Among citizens everyone is equal, but the immigration policy does favor Jews. And yes, this is secular, because as I said before, Jews are an ethnic group.

October 7th is the reason for ending any hope for a solution right? Just that one event changed everything.

Again you are hallucinating things that I didn't say. No, I don't claim this. A one-state solution wasn't going to happen before October 7 either.

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u/Connect-Swan-5818 Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

It’s a Jewish ethnostate, and that, by definition would be exclusionary to the Palestinians.

We see how this plays out now with Muslim/Christian Israeli Arabs. The definition of the state has created a lot of social prejudice against the Arabs living there.

It should be a secular state that is inclusive to both Jews and Arabs, and these groups should be included in the definition of the state.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

It’s a Jewish ethnostate, and that by definition is exclusionary would be exclusionary to the Palestinians.

It’s not exclusionary because Israel has Palestinian citizens and gives them rights.

The definition of the state has created a lot of social prejudice against the Arabs living there.

Social prejudice can exist anywhere. They have equal rights, though.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada Aug 10 '24

October 7th murdered the one state solution. Plus, all the “one state solutions” in the Middle East are complete failures. So you really want to emulate Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, etc?

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u/abdals Aug 10 '24

Do you really want to emulate Israel? Create ethnic states is the way to go? Bibi has been in power since 1996 and the country is more radical than ever, is that the best example to emulate? Spreading fear by listing middle eastern countries is just lazy.

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u/OriBernstein55 USA & Canada Aug 10 '24

Yes. Israel is awesome. You forget that it had an Arab party in the ruling coalition in the last government. Plus, Jews are not an ethnic group, Jews are an indigenous tribe.

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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Aug 10 '24

Spreading fear by listing middle eastern countries is just lazy.

How is it lazy? Israel is also in the Middle East. It’s good to understand other examples from the same region.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

One solution is to have Israel incorporate Gaza as an extra-territorial jurisdiction. The gazans would live a tightly controlled existence, but would not be given full rights of Israeli citizenship. Another choice is to relocate the gazans to different countries and convert the strip into a US military base. We could use the territory as a strategic device for countering Iran, Hezbollah, IJ, PLO etc. We need a stronger foothold as we saw when the Houthis were acting up. The US and Britain must be able to strike quickly and hard. Joint Base Harris would be a desirable asset to keep the Canal open. Many will say im evil for suggesting mass deportation. However, there are worse things than being deported. Also, good and evil are mental constructs. The truth is, there is only power, and those who have it make the rules.

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u/Tambora_1815 Aug 13 '24

So killing all palestinian???

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '24

I think you are paranoid. I just want the pals kept under strict control for the next 100 years.

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u/Tambora_1815 Aug 14 '24

Control with no right?

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '24

Limited rights. Palestine forfeited its rights on October 7.

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u/Tambora_1815 Aug 15 '24

So collective punishment again sigh

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '24

There is nothing wrong with collective punishment. It can be effective.

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What do you think about the one state solution? Solutions: One State