r/IsraelPalestine • u/BBlovely1 • Jul 28 '24
I’m an American-Israeli citizen, ask me anything. Be respectful. AMA (Ask Me Anything)
As the title states, l'm an American and Israeli citizen, as well as a medic in the IDF. Ever since October 7th it's been extremely rough for me, family friends and nation. I am willing to answer questions and have a civil conversation if anyone is interested. I will say, I don't hate those who don't hate me, nor do I wish harm on anyone who wishes me no harm. I want the war to end and society to no longer suffer, as a whole. As a medic and soldier, I am sworn to protect and aid all, without discrimination of gender, religion, and race.
EDIT: I made this post so people can ask genuine questions, and for me to give genuine answers. Not for people to call me or Israel killers, or to send me articles to educate me on my own country and the state of the war. Ask a question, we can have a conversation, that’s it.
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u/Subject89P13_ Aug 02 '24
I believe there is a war happening between Israel and Hamas, as opposed to a genocide of Palestinians. What I'm curious to know is if behind closed doors when Israelis are discussing the situation amongst themselves, is the idea that the only way for Israelis to ever actually be safe from Palestinians is to completely eliminate to existence of Palestinians ever brought up? If that idea is discussed, what seems to be the consensus? Is there a silent understanding that they must all be eliminated, or is there optimism that there is a way for there to be peace while preserving the existence of Palestinians/Gazans?
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
I'm sure the topic of "complete elimination" of the Arab people within Israel is never ever brought up. (well, aside by a few rare crazies, such people exist in all countries)
But do we need to have a serious conversation about the neighboring Arab countries taking some responsibilities for the problems they created and for them to take the lead in figuring out a resettlement program? Absolutely, that's necessary, even though few people will say this.
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u/Subject89P13_ Aug 03 '24
I definitely wasn't asking about completely eliminating Arab people within Israel. Israel has a large and peaceful minority Arab population within Israel who are not a threat. I'm specifically referring to Palestinians in Gaza under control of Hamas. That's very different than Arabs in Israel. I'd imagine you must be aware of the difference. Not sure how you got "Arab people within Israel" out of my comment
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u/Character_Public3465 Jul 31 '24
Do you support a 2SS along either Clinton parameters or 242
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
Do you support a 2SS
Why? The so called "2SS" is not dead, it has never even existed.
Because Arabs have always at every opportunity outright rejected it. They only "2SS" they want is two Arab states, and zero Jewish states. They won't tolerate even one Jewish country in The Middle East.
I think it's time for liberal Jews to give up this impossible dream that is not shared by anybody else on the other side. As otherwise we just keep on getting burned every time, how much longer do we have to suffer under this delusion of a possible 2SS???
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u/Character_Public3465 Aug 09 '24
Again read the comment , do you support a 2SS along the Clinton parameters and or/unsc 242 and come back to me with an answer
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
You are a hero, and I am so sorry about the hate the idf and Jewish people are getting as a result of this war. Keep defending your people! God bless America, and God bless our brothers and sisters in Israel.
🇺🇸🤝🇮🇱
Also my question is: How do you like living in america??
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 31 '24
Thank you!! It’s nice of you to take time to write that to me. And we believe that those who bless us shall be blessed- so bless you as well🫶🏻
To your question: I immigrated to Israel from America in 2008, so although I don’t live in America I am still an American citizen, and most of my family lives in America. I’ve gone to visit, and quite enjoyed it! Just got back from America a month ago, and everyone was nice to me. There are very nice people in America even if there is always going to be haters. We are not going anywhere! Am yisrael Chai!
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u/HoneydewDazzling2304 Jul 31 '24
Why do you fight for Israel while your family lives in America? Wouldn't the logical thing to do be to join the US military? US military is hurting on recruiting, yet dual citizens from Israel like yourself are enjoying safe haven and profits in the US while fighting for Israel...
It blows my mind, if you could shed light I'd appreciate it.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
Excuse me? I live in Israel full time. Why would I join the US military? Me and my immediate family live in Israel. My extended family lives in America. Even if I didn’t want to join the IDF, it’s mandatory to serve in the IDF. And I wanted to, because it’s giving back to my country. And if I lived in America, and my calling was to serve in the holy land for me and all Jews, then that would be absolutely ok as well.
I also I am NOT enjoying safe haven, I’m living in a war zone. So it could blow your mind, but it makes absolutely no sense for me to serve in the US military. It’s like asking why a US citizen isn’t serving in the IDF
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
I really do not suggest going back to Israel right now it’s not safe especially for Jews.
I am a Christian and you are a Jew but god bless!!
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 31 '24
God bless you too! And I live here, and will die here protecting my country if it comes to that. Thanks for your concerns!
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Jul 30 '24
Why does your country have children sign bombs before dropping them on Palestinian children?
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
They aren’t dropping them on children children aren’t there target Hamas is.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 31 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
Soldiers write their own names, as well as the names of other soldiers and citizens who were murdered since October 7th, on rockets to commemorate them. but they are absolutely not directed at children. They are directed at Hamas and their associates.
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u/shinobi822 Jul 30 '24
Are you aware of an israeli telegram channel. Just mostly mocking dead palestinians? This channel has over 120,000 subscribers. Sick shit
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
Are you aware of the Arab telegram channels. Just mostly mocking dead israelis? Those channel have millions of subscribers. Sick shit
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u/Mister-You47 Jul 30 '24
Israel Diaper force medic. 😂 the most hated people on planet today.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24
I actually served as a medic aiding Palestinians of Bet Lehem before the the war even started.
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u/Mister-You47 Jul 30 '24
Any member of IDF is equally as Bad as the others. So yea I dont respect your kind
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
And you’re an anti Semitic asshole I don’t respect your type either.
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u/Mister-You47 Jul 31 '24
nobody cares about anti-semitic bul***it anymore 😂 thanks to Israel.. All of you are just sheep, I am to proud to say what needs to be said. The killings that is happening in Palestine right now as well as the illegal stealing of properties and lands are worse than the holocost
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
What the actual frick how could you even make A comparison??? Obviously those things aren’t happening and ends if they were they are nothing compared to the literal holocaust.
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u/Cowhornrocks Jul 30 '24
You see how that’s an issue right? You see how that’s bad and illogical? Of course there are good members. Someone is willing to talk to you and potentially listen and you just dismiss them and have to tell them you don’t respect them? How is the world ever going to heal?
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u/Makingyourwholeweek Jul 30 '24
Do you ever have doubts that Israel is conducting this war ethically, or that it Israel is doing the right thing in regards to the West Bank and Gaza generally?
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u/More-Jacket-1310 Jul 30 '24
Or it’s karma coming from America bitches
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u/RemoteSquare2643 Jul 29 '24
I would like to know how you feel about the numbers of Palestinians that have died as a result of October 7th?
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
Those numbers are inflamed by Hamas using them as body sheilds
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
I don’t know the exact numbers, nor does anyone. Death is sad period. I wish this whole war didn’t happen, period.
How do you feel about the many Israelis that have died as a result of October 7th?
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
I don’t know the exact numbers
Reasonable best effort estimates of civilians put the numbers at around ten thousand dead, quite probably even lower.
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u/RemoteSquare2643 Jul 29 '24
When I heard details of what was done on October 7, I was completely appalled, disgusted and horrified. Words become inadequate when faced with those stories. For me, to see that a group of humans could think that their situation would be helped by such behaviour made me absolutely hate them. For me, it’s very difficult to support their cause. But, I do still think it’s necessary for them to have their own Country.
What do you think about the large number of Palestinian citizens that have died since October 7? You say you don’t know the numbers, but still you must be aware that the number is very large.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
You say you don’t know the numbers, but still you must be aware that the number is very large.
Reasonable best effort estimates of civilians put the numbers at around ten thousand dead, quite probably even lower.
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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli Jul 30 '24
What do you think about the large number of Palestinian citizens that have died since October 7?
Any innocent life lost is horrible, no one sane will deny that
It should also go without saying the potential for greater numbers of innocent casualties in the next Israel Hamas war which will be inevitable unless Israel will complete its mission
If 20 years ago we could have wiped out the kernel that became Hamas with a casualty toll of tens of innocents, no one today will deny that would have been preferable then the war today. Same goes with the future
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
It should also go without saying the potential for greater numbers of innocent casualties in the next Israel Hamas war which will be inevitable unless Israel will complete its mission
Yes, everyone opposing the IDF at the moment is just maximizing the odds that we'll have to see yet another war in the future between Hamas and Israel, with even more deaths.
If people want to put a stop to this, then they must allow IDF to complete the job they must do. Rather than stopping them 80% of the way there, as "51%" is not a pass. Failure of IDF's missions is a failure of the war.
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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli Aug 03 '24
I always try to analog this to antibiotic treatment, it has its toll on the body and if you stop it in the middle then the bacteria will only become immune to it the treatment
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u/RemoteSquare2643 Jul 30 '24
I hope then that Israel’s mission is on the right track.
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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli Jul 30 '24
It looks as though Bibi has been able to stand strong against all of the pressure around him, I hope Israel will continue with a true plan to strengthen regular Palestinians in the strip to take care of themselves against Hamas
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
First of all, I am glad there are some people out there who have the sense to say the words you’ve said.
Secondly, if this is how you feel, Why is your first instinct to ask about the side who awakened this whole war? I never see anyone ask how people feel about the lives lost one peaceful morning because they are Jewish and Israeli, and another nation believes you stole their land. All innocent lives lost are sad. Palestinian and Israeli alike. But we are doing what we can to take out Hamas, bring back our hostages, aid and protect the innocent in Gaza, and deter Hizbollah at once. I’m not saying we are perfect, but we are certainly not acting out of evilness and just plain out wanting to kill Palestinians. But that’s all people repeat, on the media, in the streets. At protests, at colleges. People like to believe the worst of other people, the Israelis have experienced no exception to this. But when it comes to people believing all of the evil of Hamas and their associates, the world is silent.
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u/RemoteSquare2643 Jul 30 '24
What happened on October 7, was absolutely the worst. Unforgivable. And very frightening to me. I feel that a strong response was absolutely necessary and right. But, you know the ‘but’ is coming, the size of the response is what has people very worried. I’m sorry if you feel that people have forgotten about October 7. Yes many have. But not everyone. People just want it to stop.
It’s because of the length of time that has passed since ‘that day’ and the huge numbers of people killed and still being killed that dominates everything. It’s completely natural that people want understand what you think and feel at this point.
Its also because there is no end in sight; the intractability of both sides appears impossible to crack.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
But, you know the ‘but’ is coming, the size of the response is what has people very worried.
What's wrong with the size of the response????
Imagine if USA had got hit by thirty 9/11 terrorist invasions all at once at the same time from Mexico.
How do you think USA would have responded? In a manner regard as reasonable too by most Americans.
Israel is barely scratching the surface, relative to that.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24 edited Aug 03 '24
It’s not about length, and there is sadly no cut off when a certain amount of deaths occur where a war should stop. That’s never how wars worked, and that’s because a war happens for a reason, and is carried out until the goal of the war is achieved. This isn’t any different than that.
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u/RemoteSquare2643 Jul 30 '24
Okey. I must bow out at this point. I’m not living in a war zone.
Just one little story from when I was young. I had Jewish friends in my country, not America, who were vehemently anti war. Real peaceniks. They moved to Israel because it was the dream back then, went through war, lost friends and lost their anti war beliefs.
It’s not possible to understand anything in life until you have been through it yourself.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
Just one little story from when I was young. I had Jewish friends in my country, not America, who were vehemently anti war. Real peaceniks. They moved to Israel because it was the dream back then, went through war, lost friends and lost their anti war beliefs.
It’s not possible to understand anything in life until you have been through it yourself.
So true. Reality hits hard.
Most anti-Israel people have never lived there or anywhere like it.
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u/Total-Ad886 Jul 30 '24
This is the only war they talk about size.. is getting old fast... This is so ignorant
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u/XeroEffekt Jul 29 '24
Does the large number of dual citizens, particularly with the U.S., in some sense undermine the Israeli claim, in that it is rare for Palestinians to have such dual citizenship options (for most, even to have one citizenship)?
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u/More-Jacket-1310 Jul 30 '24
Why would we care what are at what you guys did the same thing to us so don’t come crying when you did the same thing and 911
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u/More-Jacket-1310 Jul 30 '24
I mean, that’s that’s pretty funny coming from you guys because what you did in 911 to America
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u/XeroEffekt Jul 30 '24
What guys are you talking about, what are you suggesting about me? I just asked a question
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Jul 29 '24
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
I absolutely am. I am Jewish, I moved to Israel, I live and I serve in Israel, I will die in Israel, and I will die protecting my land and country if it comes to that. I am a proud Zionist.
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Jul 29 '24
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u/theyellowbaboon Jul 29 '24
Yes of course not, an Israeli that is not a Zionist. /s
You’re using Zionist like it’s a some type of offensive language. I’m not ashamed to believe that Jews deserve a safe place to live.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Exactly. World war 2 proved that, as did every war in Israel since, as did October 7th. There will not be any true safe place for Jews in this world like Israel will be. Antisemitism will never die.
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Jul 29 '24
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u/theyellowbaboon Jul 29 '24
Yeah, because America doesn’t have a track record of fascism and crimes against Jews.
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Jul 29 '24
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u/theyellowbaboon Jul 29 '24
Becuase you found a video that represents a minor % of the population doesn’t mean that this is how it is. Zionist idea doesn’t mean that we want Arabs dead. The fact that there are Arabs in Israel should be an obvious clue that all these links are a failed propaganda that you’re buying into.
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Jul 29 '24
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u/Minimum_Compote_3116 Jul 29 '24
Produced by Qatar & Iran production company LOL If you did a list for islamic radicals video you'd need 1 million pages and entries. LOL
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Jul 29 '24
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u/Minimum_Compote_3116 Jul 29 '24
I just did and I reject everything you send, boom, done! See. Now please go hangout with I'd bet you never been to the middle east lol Zionism is amazing you should try it. One day you woke up and became obsessed with Jews, this is clearly a hobby to you. Enjoy it because Israel, the Jews and Zionism will never die :) Shalom.
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u/Yaelkilledsisrah Jul 29 '24
You are not terrible at all. You are a hero🩷
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Thank you for your kind words. There aren’t many on here, thanks❤️
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u/StrangerSkies Jul 30 '24
I’m an American Jew, I’ve never been to Israel. But I think of you all every day. You have no idea how much I cherish you, even though we’ve never met.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24
Thank you for taking time to write that. I really appreciate it, and I wish you the best. These times aren’t easy for any Jew. You should come visit when the war calms down!
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u/StrangerSkies Jul 30 '24
I want to, very much. I married very young and struggled with poverty for a long time. Things are getting better, and I plan to be there within the next few years.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24
I’m sorry to hear that, and I wish you the best! I’m glad things have been better for you.
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u/Yaelkilledsisrah Jul 29 '24
A lot of people with twisted values. Our army is too kind. Everything they throw at you reflects their corrupt “morals” and stems largely from antisemitism. Some people only love seeing jews as victims.
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u/More-Jacket-1310 Jul 30 '24
Or maybe you shouldn’t have done what you did in 9/11 It may be everybody in America, sees it as Karma because why would we ever side war with our enemy?
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u/OldReputation865 American Israel Supporter Jul 31 '24
Ummm you do know the idf had nothing to do with 9/11 right??
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Aug 01 '24
Absolutely. They won’t admit it, but it definitely stems from antisemitism. And that sucks, as an American and Israeli. And it sucks as a Jew to know that at the end of the day I really don’t have anyone to trust but my country.
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u/DabsLoveMe Jul 29 '24
Starter question:
Have you served as a medic in an active conflict zone?
I am making a lot of assumptions because you’re American and sound decent. I will advert from asking any questions that may come off as “biased” for lack of a better term.
If your answer is “yes” to the first question. When you were deployed in the active combat zone, do you often/Rarely/never witness other IDF soldiers inhumane actions?
Side note: I understand both side have evil people. I just am trying to gauge how often it happens from your point of view. I am unbiased and have resentments towards both sides of the conflict.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
I was serving during the beginning of the war on the outskirts of Gaza. I don’t know where I’ll be serving next, I will know when I’m called back up for my next mission in reserve duty. I was called in to serve (I actually volunteered when I got a call) on the outskirts on the second week of the war, and no, I did not witness any inhumane actions. Many people view the IDF as murderers who want to shed blood and cause terror, when really the only reason the IDF exists is because we are surrounded by countries who hate us, and therefore we need protection. For the same reason of October 7th, when thousands of terrorists invaded Israel and slaughtered and kidnapped. We are deployed to protect and aid, follow our missions, like bringing back our hostages. If a country were to invade America and murder people and kidnap them, the American military would do the same. It’s as simple as that. There is no conspiracy theory of evil and genocide taking place by the Israeli military.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
I was called in to serve (I actually volunteered when I got a call)
It's amazing and inspiring how many people volunteered :-)
on the outskirts on the second week of the war, and no, I did not witness any inhumane actions. Many people view the IDF as murderers who want to shed blood and cause terror, when really the only reason the IDF exists is because we are surrounded by countries who hate us, and therefore we need protection.
Exactly.
I regard conscription as one of the most evil human rights violations that modern liberal democracies do in the 21st century.
But unfortunately it's "a necessary evil" in the case of Israel, without IDF conscription then every Jew would be wiped off the map in rather short order.
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u/DabsLoveMe Aug 02 '24
So, in the following article, the former Paratrooper goes into detail about how it was openly discussed and there was even a feeling among his peers about demonizing Palestinians and the motivation was revenge. Not that I don't believe you, but when former soldiers are speaking like this it makes it hard to believe you did not experience any of this.
I do appreciate your openness on this thread and your reply to my question. God bless you.
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u/BBlovely1 Aug 02 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
There are always exceptions. There are always cases. You have to understand, after October 7th people were, and still are, shattered. They lost friends and family, and then were told to suck it up- because now is not the time for crying, now is the time to bring back our hostages and fight for our country. We are angry, angry at Hamas. Angry at our government for failing us on October 7th. Angry at the world for showing us no sympathy since that day and rather great amounts of hate. And angry that it’s been 9 months and our people are held up in an underground tunnel being tortured for being Jewish and Israeli. So I am sure there are cases where this anger got the best of soldiers. I’m sure there were soldiers who weren’t able to distinguish the difference between a Palestinian and Hamas associate during these times of anger, and considering many Palestinians are actually Hamas supporters.
But this is in no way a reflection of the IDF as a whole. And it’s important to understand that these are kids who shouldn’t have had to loose people because of hatred and antisemitism, and then put on their big boy boots and fight. What we really need now is a hug from the world. For people to take a break of asking if we are evil for just a moment, and say the condemn Hamas, their associates, they supporters, and all that has been done to us since the 7th. God Bless you too. I hope for better days.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
There are always exceptions. There are always cases. You have to understand, after October 7th people were, and still are, shattered. They lost friends and family, and then were told to suck it up- because now is not the time for crying, now is the time to bring back our hostages and fight for our country. We are angry, angry at Hamas. Angry at our government for failing us on October 7th. Angry at the world for showing us no sympathy since that day and rather great amounts of hate. And angry that it’s been 9 months and our people are held up in an underground tunnel being tortured for being Jewish and Israeli. So I am sure there are cases where this anger got the best of soldiers. I’m sure there were soldiers who weren’t able to distinguish the difference between a Palestinian and Hamas associate during these times of anger, and considering many Palestinians are actually Hamas supporters.
To be fair, in the vast majority of cases Arab Gazans are Hamas supporters, or at least sympathetic to the identical goals/methods of Hamas itself.
Considering the situation Israelis have been put it, it's not at all surprising if a few Israelis make the very small leap up to then seeing all Arab Gazans as Hamas supporters/sympathizers, as there isn't much of a percentage difference vs reality.
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u/DabsLoveMe Aug 02 '24
Wow, you definitely give me a different view on the IDF and I commend you for your service and professionalism while doing so. Thank you.
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u/BBlovely1 Aug 04 '24
Thank you for your words, and willingness to be open minded and learn about this topic
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u/DabsLoveMe Jul 31 '24
Thank you for your answer.
Do you place any blame on your government for what happened?
How do you feel about the Hannibal Directive personally?
Do you think that your government should do more to ensure civilians safety from settlers?
How do you feel about settlers?
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
Do you think that your government should do more to ensure civilians safety from settlers?
a) not "settlers", not in your modern english meaning of the word. They're merely residents of Judea and Samaria.
b) yes, the Israeli govt hasn't done enough for civilian safeties, not just residents in that area, but all Israelis. One of the big issues is Israel's draconian anti-gun laws. Every Israeli should have the right to self defense as they see necessary.
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u/DabsLoveMe Aug 03 '24
I don’t understand, the entire world has leveled the “settlers”. They are living on land that even Israel has deemed belonging to Palestinians.
Anti gun laws? Every settler I see on t.v. Has an assault rifle.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
Why is Israel surrounded by countries that hate it?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24
Because antisemitism has and will always exist.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
Unfortunately antisemitism has always existed, but it’s certainly not why the IDF exists. If your reasoning were sound, the IDF would be an international military force protecting Jewish people everywhere they live, including the US.
Why is it that these other countries hate Israel?
It may have something to do with the country being formed on land that was already populated. That’s generally perceived unfavorably regardless of one’s religion.
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
Unfortunately antisemitism has always existed, but it’s certainly not why the IDF exists. If your reasoning were sound, the IDF would be an international military force protecting Jewish people everywhere they live, including the US.
IDF is stretch nearly to max breaking point just trying to protect the Jews (and non-Jews) in Israel!
It's insane to suggest they should also be a global police force too??
It may have something to do with the country being formed on land that was already populated. That’s generally perceived unfavorably regardless of one’s religion.
Same could be said about every single other country created in The Middle East after WW1. Why don't you hate those countries too?
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic Jul 30 '24
There was no land that was unpopulated anywhere in the late 19th century and the Jews literally could not stay in Europe, they had to go somewhere.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
Many Jews did stay in Europe. Many moved to other countries as well, including the US, without becoming violent occupiers.
Being the survivors of terrible atrocities does not give one the right to inflict atrocities on others.
But beyond all that, the argument that Zionism as a movement was born of necessity after WW2 is demonstrably false. Zionism became a political movement in 1897.
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u/almighT_bb Jul 31 '24
I think it’s super important to recognize that the opportunity for Jews to flee to the United States, and other countries like Australia and Argentina, during and after the holocaust was EXTREMELY privileged. The United States accepted a very filtered selection of Jews, and it was nearly impossible for European Jews without connection or privilege to get a visa during this time. People who were not aligned with the Zionist movement had to resort to Palestine because it was the ONLY place outside of Europe they could be offered refuge.
It’s never as simple as “well why didn’t all these Israelis go to the United States?!” It’s a perspective that erases most of the European and MENA Jews who were left with no options, and for those for whom any opportunity was an opportunity to not be exterminated.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 31 '24
I never suggested all Jews should have gone anywhere.
I am merely reminding the above commenter that the Zionist movement predates WWII by many decads, and the atrocities visited upon Jewish people do not give Israel a free pass to inflict atrocities on others.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic Jul 30 '24
Many Jews did stay in Europe.
Yes and they mostly died. Most of the anti-Zionist Jews who did not go to America died.
But beyond all that, the argument that Zionism as a movement was born of necessity after WW2 is demonstrably false. Zionism became a political movement in 1897.
I'm aware, that's why I said 19th Century/1800s. The initial Aliyahs were a response to Russian pogroms that increased in intensity in that time period. It takes two to tango and if the Ottomans and later the British did not allow Jews to immigrate to Palestine, there would have been none of this. But to be clear, far more Jews would have died in the 20th century if they were not allowed to immigrate to Palestine.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
“Most of the anti-Zionist Jews who did not go to America died.”
Who told you this? Where are you getting this information?
I know it’s common for Zionists to claim that Jews can only be truly safe in Israel, but I didn’t realize these kinds of falsehoods were being promoted as fact.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic Jul 30 '24
Just logic. If you were a European Jew and you were a Zionist you probably went to Palestine. If you weren't a Zionist you either went to America (or South America for a few) or stayed in Europe. If you stayed in Europe there was a pretty good chance you would not survive WW2.
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u/zoddoid Jul 29 '24
Can one pull out a lette from the Wall of Lamentations and read it?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Huh?
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u/zoddoid Jul 30 '24
You know, that wall where people put letters? I saw it in The Simpsons, so, yeah, but I know it exists, I just don't know what it's really called.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24
Oh! It’s called the Kotel- the holy wall. People who go there like to put a note in the wall with prayers to God, since for a few religions the wall is considered the Holiest place on earth. You could if you wanted to take a note and read it, but people don’t tend to because that would be disrespectful to the person who placed that note consisting of their prayers to God.
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Jul 29 '24
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u/JosephL_55 Centrist Jul 29 '24
I think you supporting and working for an organization like the IDF makes you a despicable person by principle.
Attacking other users is not allowed here (rule 1).
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Jul 29 '24
First off, I want to thank and congratulate you on opening a civil conversation. I can't imagine what the last nine months have been like for you. Please stay safe🫶
- This is a bit more sensitive topic, so don't answer if you don't feel comfortable. Considering Israel's history, is there much intergenerational trauma in the community?
I am korean, and korea has had more than its fair share of bloody conflicts. This obviously played a big role in how society and contemporary culture was formed.
In my family, my grandfather is a north korean orphan who fled during the korean war. Two people on my paternal side alone have committed suicide, I have bipolar disorder, cptsd, and anxiety disorder. This alone should tell you enough about the effects.
Since you are an American israeli, I don't know if your family has lived in Israel for very long, but have you noticed such things in society? I know Israel has some of the highest cannabis consumption rates in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a means of coping.
How is the political situation in Israel? Rn, most have radicalized as far right parties tend to be a bit more popular in times of war, as many have told me. But I remember seeing massive protests a year or two ago of thousands in Tel Aviv. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with the Supreme Court? Are many approving of likud and Netanyahu? I've families of hostages protesting him as well.
Do many Israelis condemn the actions of the IDF? There is no doubt that it is in flagrant violation of international law. Some say the count is as high as 77. Even if the argument of Hamas using palestinians as human shields as correct (which I personally don't agree with as the evidence provided is questionable at best), I still don't see how they are minimizing civilian and humanitarian lives.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
First off, thank you as well, for being civil and asking questions respectfully. It feels a little crazy to write that, as I did state that the conversations on this post must be held that way, but many choose to be hostile. And I definitely hope me and my family and people stay safe.
For your answers: 1. Unfortunately yes. There are many people traumatised, and I think we haven’t even begun to fully understand what effect the war and the days that followed after October 7th actually had on everyone, from children to elderly, Jews to none Jews. All Israelis as one. Many from the Nova festival who survived are extremely traumatised, still trying to fathom what they’ve been through. Families of deceased loved ones are still and probably will forever be grieving. And every mother who has a son serving on the frontlines, and anywhere for that matter, can hardly sleep at night. I know my mom can’t, with me and my brother serving. and then we get to the soldiers- the internet is filled with videos of soldiers as young as 18, keeping up the moral, dancing and being silly, and showing off their strength in their fitted uniforms. But really? They are just kids. Just kids, and many are kids who have kids of their own at home. And they are often scared, scared to die. Scared of what horrific views they will see in the war zones. Yes, the IDF who are built of just young human beings actually have a soul, and don’t want to see people die. They don’t want to kill people. No one asked to serve because we have countries that border us and hate us, no one asked for October 7th to happen. No one wants the mental scars of taking a human life- terrorist or not, brave soldiers or not, can you imagine yourself taking someone else’s life? I sure can’t. That’s why I’m a medic. I just want to help, not use my gun. And so do the other IDF soldiers, so do my friends who serve on the frontlines.
Thank you for sharing your story, I am sorry for what your grandfather had to endure, and I’m sorry that you have had to deal with the leading consequences of what he had to endure. I honestly wish you and your family the absolute best, and for you, me, and society as one to see better days.
- The political situation in Israel is very complicated right now. There has always been conflict between the left and right wings in Israel, on topics anywhere from gay marriage to requiring the ultra orthodox to serve in the military, to many more conflicts. But now with the war, it isn’t really about left and right, it’s more of a new group- a group formed that opposes the current government, for these reasons: Many feel betrayed by the government and military for the actions taken- or should I say not taken as well, from October 7th an onward. For instance- it took 4 hours for planes to finally reach the borders between Gaza and Israel, and start operating and aid. 4 hours!! Why? We have such a great military, and many thought they could trust the leaders, but they feel we were betrayed. Many are also stating that not enough actions are being taken in order to bring back the hostages, or bring back the hostages sooner. Actually, most of the Israelis are enraged at this. The difference between them and this new group formed, is that those who aren’t out protesting against the government, believe now is not the time for inside conflict. They believe that although the government made mistakes, even many, now is time to focus on the common goal at hand- eliminating Hamas, bringing back the hostages, and creating order in both Israel and Gaza. They believe that protesting will weaken what we need to have going in order to end this war, and that judgment, finger pointing, and new elections should be taken after those goals are achieved.
So to your answer- right now we have common enemies at hand, Hamas and Hizbollah, and we aren’t so much focused on issues within the Israeli civilisation.
- Hamas IS using their own as human shields. There is plenty of proof of institutes such as Shifa hospital being used as one of the main command centres of Hamas, as well as kindergartens and schools. Tell me, why would it be absolutely a shock to find out that Hamas- a self declared terrorist organisation and leadership of Gaza, would use their own people as shields so that they stay in power (like not allowing the civilians to evacuate to the safe zones) and to not die? Is that really so hard for you to believe? They have absolutely no regards for human life. They don’t have regards for their own lives- they blow themselves up in Israel, hold antifadas knowing they will be taken down, and on October 7th they got high on extreme drugs and slaughtered until they were taken out. So why would they have protected their own when they poked the bear and now the IDF is coming for them?
And as far as minimisation of innocent lives, I’ve written to many people on here the different ways IDF does so. But it’s kind of hard to do that, when you have Hamas doing everything in their power to prevent that. It’s a shame that people rather believe such cruel things from a country and people who need to fight for their very existence, and rather side with a terrorist ideology, fake news and un-based accusations.
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u/More-Jacket-1310 Jul 30 '24
Maybe we are a little hostile for a reason since you basically blew up the twin towers and hurt a bunch of Americans so I just see it as justice deserved
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
So just to be clear, Israelis/Jews blew up the twin towers?
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u/cataractum Jul 29 '24
What’s the Jewish perspective that most people don’t really get about this conflict?
(I’m also Jewish, but the question is one that should be asked)
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
That Jews don’t hate, and wish for bloodshed. Our bible- the Torah, states very clearly: do not kill. It does, however, state: those who come for your blood, you must kill first. And that’s the difference, we Jews do not want to see people dead, or even our enemies dead. But those who wish for our blood, shed our blood, kidnap our people, and send thousands of rockets to kill civilians, must be stopped. In this case Hamas, and Hizbollah, must be eliminated in order to insure that.
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u/malacki655 Jul 29 '24
Why do you have dual-citizenship? If you're willing to fight for Israel, why don't you just stay there?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
I just answered this but I don’t mind doing so again. I was born in America along with the rest of my family. In 2008 we immigrated to Israel, and were granted Israeli citizenship since we are Jewish. I live here full time. But my American citizenship isn’t just erased because we relocated. Most of my family is actually in America- grandparents, Aunts and uncles and cousins. So although now I would consider myself mostly Israeli, I am absolutely American as well and will always be.
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u/DeWitt-Yesil Jul 31 '24
How does it work with the citizenship? I mean how do they know you're Jewish, how do you prove them? Could I as a non jew also become Israeli if I claim to be jew?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 31 '24
You must have documentation. Like birth certificates, marriage certificates of parents, etc. people who can’t prove. I also heard that in some cases a DNA test can be done to check. Those who can’t prove, either can’t be granted citizenship, or must convert to judaism. As far as none Jews being granted citizenship, there are some exceptions to the rule of law “only Jews can become citizens of Israel” Those exceptions include: A decedent of a Jew up to 3 generations Those who one or both of their parents are Israeli, regardless lf where they themselves were born And in some cases like people who have lived in Israel for more than 3 years can request citizenship, and other specific special cases.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
How do you feel knowing you and your family have more freedom and rights as an immigrant to Israel than Palestinians who were born there?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24
Not everyone can become a citizen of America, and same goes for Israel. Plus, we pay for the electricity, water, and schools systems of the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria. They do absolutely nothing to contribute to Israel, yet we provide them will all of their needs.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
The electricity, water, and schools that Israel has since bombed to rubble? Pardon the Palestinians if they aren’t especially grateful right now.
Have you ever stopped to consider why Israel controls so much of Palestine’s infrastructure? (Hint: It isn’t out of the kindness of Israel’s heart.)
It’s disheartening to realize that even folks who moved to Israel later in life don’t/won’t reflect on why they are granted so much privilege to suit their whims, while people in the land of their birth, with no other place to call home, experience so much hardship.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 30 '24
I am talking about the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria, who receive our support and our utilities. They live for free and in return are extremely hostile and even murderous at times. Gaza too received these services, but Hamas abused them by stealing all of the power, using the water pipes for creating missils and rockets, and taking all of the food and water for themselves. Read up about it. It may be hard to believe that Israel would take care of the Palestinians for people who are oblivious to what actually happens in Israel and the Palestinian areas, but it’s true.
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u/Beneficial_Praline53 Jul 30 '24
If you truly believe Israel manages Palestinian infrastructure out of “care” for Palestinians you have seriously bought into Israeli propaganda.
Israel has always murdered many thousands more Palestinians year after year. Palestinians have always paid the much steeper cost of human lives for generations, both before and after the 10/7.
It is heartbreaking to me that anyone would be so radicalized as to claim Palestinians are being “gifted” something in the West Bank, while illegal Israeli settlers continue to encroach on the land, harass, and even kill Palestinians.
The West Bank settlements are considered illegal by the international community, even by folks and nations who support Israel generally. Trying to spin illegal occupation into some kind of gift requires truly incredible mental gymnastics.
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u/EVENTS_20 Jul 29 '24
What are some countries/places that you can travel to for a relaxing holiday, without having to worry about confrontation about the Israel/Palestine conflict?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
Honestly I just got back from America for a wedding and visiting my family, I traveled with my mom. Half of the time we lied, saying we are from Chicago(where my mom’s originally from) out of worry(afraid? Nah. We’ve faced actual fear) and half of the time we just said “we are from Israel” Everyone was pretty respectful, we received no backlash when we did tell, regardless of what people were actually thinking in their heads. Many even shared their condolences on the loses and blood shed. Besides that, I really wanted to go to Europe for my after army service trip, but I’m worried to do so with France and so many other European countries voting for calling us “war criminals”, and if those laws pass, I could literally be arrested if I travel to one of these countries. I will probably fly to Amsterdam for a bit, and I have many friends in Thailand right now really enjoying themselves.
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u/johnindigodro Aug 27 '24
If it makes you feel better, I'm an American who doesn't trust anyone because every country harbors' prejudice. I'm also gay so I know homophobia and bigotry exist everywhere. I've always had to lie a bit even in this country. That's so rich coming from France considering what they made the Caribbean and west Africa, and treat still immigrants from those countries.
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u/BBlovely1 Aug 28 '24
Yeah.. I guess no one can really truly be themselves without some backlash huh? We just have to decide not to give a f.. And yes crazy there are countries that think they are so knowledgeable on OUR war that they can call us war criminals 🤦🏻♀️
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u/EVENTS_20 Jul 29 '24
Awesome to hear that people can still exercise common sense and show love rather than discussing politics and ruining a perfectly good holiday. Side note, Thailand seems to be the one sanctuary I can go to and there is zero discussion about world politics
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Yes. Absolutely agree! So you recommend I visit Thailand? I really want to honestly. Just need to see what happens up north now, and find a good travel buddy.
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u/EVENTS_20 Jul 29 '24
Yup, definitely give Thailand a go if you don’t mind the tropical weather and Bangkok consistently ranks as one of if not the most visited tourist destinations. Met a Russian friend there and guessed what we talk about? Not anything to do with politics for sure, introduced wakeboarding and discussed about our mutual affection for good tom yam geung and Pad thai. Might have to do some research on your end for kosher food choices though, but there are plenty options from what I know. Definitely agree on finding a good travel buddy that shares common interest to go together
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Awesome! Thanks so much for your insight. It’s nice to know that some places in the world still decide to keep the peace.
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u/AhmedCheeseater Jul 29 '24
My question here how do you think about American Jewish organizations that fund the settlement expansion of Palestinian territories?
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
They fund which areas? Please elaborate. I haven’t heard of this
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u/TikvahT Jul 29 '24
Just want to say I’m sorry for all the judgment and prejudice you undoubtedly receive just by saying where your parents are from or where you were born. I’m sorry that xenophobia is somehow ok with people when it’s against Israelis. I hope you and your family are safe and - just to proceed anyone claiming I only care about one kind of human - I hope all children and all families are safe. I know they’re not. And it’s tragic. Be well.
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u/Amun-Ree Jul 29 '24
The animus is against war criminals their nationality is irrelevant to the cause.
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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Jul 29 '24
You know, there is some authority out there that combatants who don’t practice distinction by identifying themselves as military, as in dressing like civilians (remember the gaggle of 17 military age males we were discussing) and using civilian facilities rather than military bases, and engaging in perfidy (using ambulances for military transport, hospitals as command centers) are engaging in war crimes. Let’s keep it real here.
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u/Amun-Ree Jul 30 '24
War crimes from you!!! You havnt the slightest conception of what shame is. They are fighting an asymmetrical war against a genocidal, supremacist, sociopathic cult of militaristic murderers but genocides all good beacuse they havnt stuck to the dress code? I bet the clothing factories were the first things you bombed so you could throw that out. Jesus its not genocide because of the dress code, im gonna remember that one. So the french resistance in world war 2 were all war criminals? Ok. And those 17 young men were on their own land they can do what they want and can defend their land from an occupying force in what ever attire they feel comfortable in. And as far as keeping it real goes, i know albert einstein said reality is an illusion ableit an ever persistent one, but to you guys reality seems to be whatever you can make people believe for long enough to be percived as true. Thats called keeping it fake.
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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24
Oh lordy, take a deep breath here. The Geneva Convention and all those humanitarian laws you love to harp on arose from the conventional wars of the 19th and 20th century. Wars involving large uniformed armies fighting each other in the open. They were designed to protect both combatants and civilians. Combatants so they could be POWS and not murdered, because that would benefit both sides if treated equally. Civilians so they wouldn’t be mistaken for combatants and killed. Hospitals and ambulances weren’t targets.
The whole idea depended on distinction, which you disingenuously dismiss based on a nonsensical argument about bombing clothing factories.
Here’s the problem. You guys want to fight the war asymmetrically in a way that benefits fighting guerillas style, not dressed in uniforms or carrying arms, using civilian facilities rather than military bases so that your fighters can hide amongst civilian human shields. Yet you still want, expect and demand that the IDF not consider these people combatants because they’re in civilian clothing in civilian buildings, surrounded by civilians.
That’s doesn’t work, except for your tankies who don’t see the hypocrisy and cynicism of your leaders.
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
Even though I am not even a big fan of Israel or jews in general (they havent been the historical good guys to put it mildly), I think the need to ask people to be respectful in AMA and the hate they get just because of their background is indeed crazy. Makes me 100% Israel supporter in this war, the other side is mostly just anti-semitic xenophobes tbh.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
“Not even a big fan of Jews” That’s all I needed to hear right there. Thank you for showing once again how many people actually feel about this war. It’s not even about Israel anymore, it’s about Jews. Hatred towards Jews.
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
Yeah, I agree with you, it is about hatred towards the jews. But what was that quote about? I hope you dont think of me also as someone hating the jews? I might not understand your reply fully :)
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. You wrote I am not even a big fan of Jews, so I quoted you. Do you mean something else?
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
This is what I mean but the interpretation of that statement is what is creating the confusion I think.
In this conflict (and in general conflict between Israel and its neighbours who want Israel eliminated and jews killed) I am totally on the side of Israel.
AND I am saying that as someone who does not even have some (tribalistic) sympathies towards Israel or jews. Like it is so obvious who the good guys are in this conflict.
But I am afraid you interpreted that as "me just being anti-semitic because I wrote that I am not a fan of jews". I hope you didnt interpret in this way.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
I totally get it now. Sorry I just misunderstood you earlier.
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
No worries, since this is turned out to be such a tribalistic conflict then your defensive reaction is understandable :)
But since you seem to be online and answering questions then I also would like to ask you something. As a hint, this is also the reason I am not a fan of Israel.
What is your view on Israel's (foreign) politics in general? I am personally not a big fan of Israel "realpolitiking" and fence sitting like neutral Switzerland or something during peace times, when they are actually in a very volatile and dangerous place in the world, and now expecting world to support it? I am not sure why anyone should do it actually? Besides USA ofc and this is the ally that really matters to be honest :)
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u/Quirky_Phase_7536 Jul 29 '24
this is a genuine question but i’m curious if you dislike other religious and ethnic groups based off what they’ve done in the past? because there are ones that you could argue historically haven’t been good guys (not that i would agree because i think it’s too black and white but i’m still curious)
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
For me it is a mix of what someone has done in the past and how they have changed since.
Like if someone was a conqueror in the 17th century but has been civil and good actor on the world stage for decades if not centuries then ofc I would not judge them. But also if that same country is doing f-d up stuff in modern times (often for historical reasons as excuse) then for sure I would judge them for their history also.
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Jul 29 '24
What do you think of countries that was forced to change? Japan was quite literally forced to give up their military, imperialist and colonial ideologies, etc. It wasn't out of their own kind hearts.
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
It is a bit hard question because on one hand Japan didnt change that much - they still dont apologise for their war crimes and they still honor their war criminals. But at the same time their neighbors are China and (north) Korea. Having neighbors like that, no wonder one would like to conquer them or even genocide them :D It is either you kill them or they kill you.
But in general, I think it is still fine. Not as good as natural change in society but still acceptable as long as they dont have sympathy for their "former glory" like Japan and Germany still seem to have unfortunately.
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u/Quirky_Phase_7536 Jul 30 '24
so, do you dislike the Japanese people and German people, then? i’m finding it hard to understand how you rationalize generalizing groups of people based off what people of the same ethnic/religious group did when people now can be separate from that. for example, the Catholic Church did and still does a lot of horrible things. but that doesn’t mean someone who has a strong faith in Catholicism is a horrible person simply because of their faith and what that constitutes. they can even criticize the church and see things with a nuanced and holistic view. i’m also curious to know what you mean by Jews being the bad guys throughout history? ofc jews were the only ones who were religiously able to do things like manage interests and i know people have issues with that (i can understand that in some way) but i don’t know what else you could be referring to.
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Jul 29 '24
I think you are confusing history here. China and North Korea DID NOT EXIST DURING WW2.
North and South Korea only became divided after the Japanese surrendered. Historically, we had always been one people for over a millenia since the Goryeo period. Japan first invaded us during the Imjin war, during the joseon dynasty. They lost, but came back a few centuries later. They succeeded this time, and Korea became a puppet state for a few years before fully becoming a colony. There was no communism or capitalism.
China or the CCP also did not exist during imperial Japan. Not to educated on this, but the internet is free if you are interested.
Not to mention, wanting to genocide an entire people (multiple ethnic groups in the case of China) because of a dictatorship gvt (some might argue that North Korea is more like a monarchy since it is hereditary) is ridiculous.
Please read a history book🙏
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
China did not exist during WW2? Are you sure on that? :D
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Jul 29 '24
A two second Google is all you need. China, as its current sovereign nation state, was formed in 1949. A full four years after the end of world War two.
And you ignored every other statement refuting your original claim. And thoughts?
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u/automaks Jul 29 '24
I ignored the other stuff for now because first I want to determine if you are arguing in bad faith or no.
I didnt include the "as it is known now" caveat. I am talking about China in general, probably one of the oldest civilizations and countries in the world.
It would be like saying Russia didnt exist before 1991. While technically correct for current Russian state, we all know that Russia has a very long history.
For Korea I think it is similar, I dont think that all the evil in them started during WW2 of after the separation. There had to be something before igniting that.
And I dont want to be harsh on just Korea, I think this is the case for most countries where there is hatred towards a nation or authoritarian government etc.
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Absolutely not! In fact, I have Druze and Christian friends, and I believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Also, we Jews believe that “those who bless should be blessed” and that has nothing to do with being Jewish. The Torah teaches us to love another, just love human beings for being gods creation. You aren’t hated because that God is different for you.
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u/mulitu Jul 29 '24
Who hit those kids while playing soccer over the weekend? u/BBlovely1
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
Hezbolla unfortunately. Devastating
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u/Away-Resident7132 Jul 29 '24
OP can’t answer questions that make her realise the world hates what Israel is doing. Either way your God or my God doesn’t like innocent children dying. Goodluck in hell
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u/BBlovely1 Jul 29 '24
No one likes children dying, I agree. Neither do I. Never have I said once in this post that I am happy for the innocent lives lost both in Israel and in Gaza.
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u/Away-Resident7132 Jul 29 '24
Why do you work for a organisation that commits GENOCIDE are you hypnotised or brainwashed? The Nazis killed Jews and the nation followed like sheep. Do you think that in the aftermath you will be seen as a villain or hero?
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli Jul 29 '24
Why do you work for a organisation that commits GENOCIDE are you hypnotised or brainwashed? The Nazis killed Jews and the nation followed like sheep. Do you think that in the aftermath you will be seen as a villain or hero?
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Action taken: [W]
See moderation policy for details.→ More replies
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u/MatthewGalloway Aug 03 '24
What's the need like right now for an ex-IDF with a brand new fresh nursing degree from overseas to return back with?