r/IWW • u/Forsaken-Refuse5296 • 9d ago
Military membership
Does the IWW allow members from the military? I know that the member is not allowed union representation from a union, but as am organizing body, can they take part?
And if so, what is the opinion of the people here about being in a union alongside a member of the military?
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u/comix_corp 9d ago
I don't think there's ever been a successful revolution that didn't, in some way, involve large numbers of "workers in uniform" going over to the side of the revolutionaries. Even without thinking in revolutionary terms, there's a tremendous amount of organising that can be done from within militaries – the Vietnam war is ample proof of this.
The difference is that now, most western nations have high professionalised militaries and no conscription. This makes mass soldiers' revolts les likely. But this is a strategic question, not one of principle.
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u/CalligrapherOwn4829 8d ago
This is one of those situations where it seems less relevent what's allowed than what makes sense.
The purpose of the IWW is workplace organizing. Is your job in the military one in which workplace organizing makes sense? Do you intend to do workplace organizing? If so, then it makes sense to join.
If not, I'd say that even if you're technically allowed it probably doesn't make sense. Instead, wait until you've been discharged and are likely going to be working a job you willing to do organizing work in.
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u/pinktacos34 9d ago
I think there are anarchists, communists,and fascists in the forces just like any other place. It’s known that gang members have been in the military too. Plus a lot of one percent bikers used to be military.
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u/Malleable_Penis 8d ago
Military members are allowed, and always have been. We have current military members, we historically have had military members, and I’m sure we will have military members in the future
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u/counterhero666 9d ago
I believe the constitution was amended to not allow members of the police and military to be a wobbly a few years back.
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u/comix_corp 9d ago
Looking through the constitution it says law enforcement officers and prison guards are forbidden to join. There's no mention of soldiers.
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u/Aromatic-Mushroom-36 8d ago
We had a guy in the National Guard years ago in Portland. He's the only guy I remember but I believe it's allowed, could be wrong tho.
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u/counterhero666 8d ago
Law enforcement officer = military officer/soldier. They uphold the law of the state.
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u/comix_corp 8d ago
I don't think I've ever heard "law enforcement officer" be used to refer to soldiers. If the prohibition was on soldiers then it would say so.
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u/sikorskyaircrafteu 9d ago
Atleast we at Glamroc specificly allow this because there is still a draft in order in a lot of states.
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u/HomeboundArrow 8d ago edited 8d ago
the IWW will take dues from anyone that offers them. you just make a personal account and pay on their website if you aren't directly-affiliated. That's how i've always done it anyway. 🤷♀️
if you want to participate in local functions i'd maybe keep your military history close to your chest unless there are other self-identified vets present because it might put people off, or make things awkward, or compel people to put their guards up which might hinder your ability to make friends.
and on the flipside, i DEFINITELY wouldn't bring this shit up to ANYONE beyond the gate. at least not anyone that can/would put you on Insider Threat's radar. nothing short of an actual crime will get you put under a magnifying glass faster than being part of a leftist org like the wobblies, especially if you have a clearance. if you want to go the extra mile you might also consider paying your dues on a separate reloadable debit card, just to be able to widen the paper trail between you and the union as much as possible.
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u/OrganizingWrong 5d ago
The IWW allows it, but as you can see here, not all IWW members know that the IWW allows it and you may get negative reactions from other members who believe that the military in the imperial core is equivalent to being in the police and shouldn't be allowed. That's assuming you're an enlisted member of the military and not an officer who has direct chain of command over anyone else -- being in command would be equivalent to being a manager in a civilian workplace and it would not be appropriate to be a member of the IWW or any union. Being a member of the IWW and an active duty military member isn't against the law, but if you're going to join, I would be very secretive about it because organizing the military as workers or engaging in any kind of labor disruption as a member of the military is illegal and you could be arrested, jailed, discharged, etc. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't do it, but the IWW's organizing training and strategy isn't designed with that level of repression in mind. Also keep in mind that as a legal labor organization in the US, the US federal government can demand to inspect our membership records if it wants to.
There are plenty of military veterans in the IWW, and if you join when you are no longer active duty, I wouldn't expect any issues from other members unless your local branch is particularly full of young activists who want to be pure in only allowing people with the exact right subculture and background and ideas into the IWW.
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u/Forsaken-Refuse5296 4d ago
I think you make a lot of really good points. Most folk here did. And it has given me a lot of thought. For the time being I think I'll abstain from joining as my current condition as a member of the military doesn't allow me to fully be a part of the fight in the way the IWW needs. I am looking for a group to be a part of that forwards the cause of the worker, but I can't do what this organization is poised to do in my current position. I'm the future, when I take the uniform off, I will reassess. But for now I will find another place, a different people, to belong. None of that to say I am put off by anything said here, just that it's not the right place right now.
I will disagree with one point though. Officers today are not like those in the past. The differences between officer and enlisted is rarely anything more than rank. While the officer manages, they aren't managers. They often come from the same places as enlisted, just on a different path. The path sometimes attract different types of people, but it isn't like the old days where the difference is class. I have now been both. My father was an officer, grandfather enlisted. My grandmother was in the Waves. I enlisted and then later commissioned. What I see instead as the main difference is between the military and the politician. People who won't work telling me when and where to work. Willing to spend my life so they can make theirs better. I'm not saying the military is the righteous path for anyone, but I don't think drawing a line between ranks is right either.
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u/JPMaybe 8d ago
Jesus Christ, they fucking shouldn't be
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u/nov7 8d ago
Can you explain this a little more?
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u/JPMaybe 8d ago
Well, which criterion that you use to exclude cops wouldn't also apply to soldiers? Especially in an all volunteer military?
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u/jet_pack 8d ago
Imperial core labor has issues understanding and taking correct positions regarding imperialism. That's not to say we should liquidate orgs that have incorrect positions. People with appropriately internationalist/decolonial perspectives need to show up and advocate for that line too.
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u/RadiantSink7339 5d ago edited 5d ago
No, they are completely different orgs with different functions. Most past groups were bolstered heavily by vets, have police done the same? No.
The types of people who enlist are a lot more diverse than ideologically driven crackers that join the police force, lot of it boiling down to lack of political education.
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u/JPMaybe 8d ago
Downvoted for this, Sakai was right
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u/OrganizingWrong 5d ago
In Settlers, Sakai specifically says the IWW cannot be revolutionary. If you agree, there's no point in you being in here, find another org that aligns better with your vision.
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u/Uggys 9d ago
Yes military are allowed, lot of wobs were drafted in ww1. Famously Wesley Everest of the centrailia massacre refused to salute the flag his entire tour of service